House of Rain: Tracking a Vanished Civilization Across the American Southwest, a feat of historical detection in which he attempts to uncover the real story behind the Anasazi, the 2,000-year-old civilization that flourished in the region now known as New Mexico and then vanished without a trace.
Childs investigates the greatest "unsolved mystery" of the American Southwest. The Anasazi, the native peoples who by the 11th century converged on Chaco Canyon (now New Mexico), built a flourishing cultural center. By the 13th century, the Anasazi were gone from Chaco. What happened?
really good article makes you think about our own civilization.
I found this interesting...read. I kept thinking while reading it I would like to be a spider listing in on Will Bruder and his Wife as they discuss Civilization as I know she is an archeologist.
anasazi is no longer the proper nomenclature. ancient pueblo peoples is preferred. also, in the article they talk about adobe. well, the hohokam didn't have adobe. adobe was a technology introduced by the spanish.
vado, you are so wrong on every level, i will not even begin.
Bruder and all the other Architects down here with a green passion could have quite the talk but would people attend and would people like vado show up and dissent with GWB revisionist type double speak?
I have made plenty of Adobes it was my introduction to architecture building with adobes in NM and i know very well the Spanish colonizers had nothing to do with it but pillaging enslaving and exploiting the resources of these people who had great civilizations.
Bruder does have a nice project on his web site in Mesa...which relates to this thread....you will just have to go find his site...I'm working....so don't have time to piss around for you lazy people.
well if you can find any adobe in new mexico pre spanish arrival let me know. cuz chaco canyon is stone, acoma pueblo the oldest continuosly inhabited site in the united states is stacked stone.
Vado I will stand behind you on this one....thinking about all those places I crawled around in the canyonlands....no adobe there....only adobe i have seen has been later in the Persido Neighborhood of Tucson and the South End...and Fort Lowell neighborhood which was certainly much later than chaco canyon...or the ruins spoken of in Phoenix.
When I was in New Mexico laying adobes, I was told that the aforementioned slave labor is the reason adobes of the American Soutwest are so much heavier and larger than the adobes used in the Middle East, where people were building their own homes. Those smaller bricks look a lot easier to build domes out of as well....
jonas77 - the code to post images and urls is at the bottom of the page, in light grey.
your image has to be hosted elsewhere (not on your local machine).
but there it is:
Required code to post a link - link
Required code to post an image -
el jeffe,
it is in the Gila Mountain range near the Cliff dwellings on the edge of National Forest land 100 yards from the continental divide.
I'll be there next week installing a new solar array and putting the moves in place to erect my solar passive pumice-crete geodesic dome, that i now nearly have the prototype in my yard done.
has anybody been the the oldest house and oldest church in Santa Fe? where the copied the local pueblo designs, still standing.
Casa Grande Ruins National Monument, in Coolidge, Arizona just northeast of the city of Casa Grande, preserves a group of Hohokam structures.
The national monument consists of the ruins of multiple structures surrounded by a compound wall constructed by the Hohokam, who farmed the Gila Valley in the early 1200s. "Casa grande" is Spanish for "big house" and the name refers to the largest structure on the site, which is what remains of a four story structure that may have been abandoned by the mid-1400s. The structure is made of caliche, and has managed to survive the extreme weather conditions for about seven centuries.
The Manitou Cliff Dwellings located just west of Colorado Springs, Colorado on US Highway 24. The adobe walls that make up the dwellings were hauled from Mesa Verde, several hundred miles to the southwest, and reassembled in their present location.
Ah, I was about to post "Didn't Casa Grande have a shade/protection structure over it?" and there is the pic. Thanks.
I just read the article. I haven't read Cadillac Desert, my husband read it and told me not to because it would depress me too much, and I'm sure he's right! I can only think of the Phoenix area with sadness these days, as it is so damn big and so damn empty. Meaning empty of thought, consideration, care, vision...just tons of Botoxees shopping for bikinis.
I know, I know, that's a generalization - there are people trying to bring Phoenix around to being more sustainable - note "more" sustainable, not necessarily actually sustainable, more like "sustainable for a longer period than if things keep going the way they are now" - and it seems the mass transit projects are a step in the right direction.
What would Phoenix look like if we could wipe it away (as happened to the Hohokam) and start over? If I had a time machine I'd go back to WWII era Phoenix - before everyone had air conditioning, I know there were vernacular approaches to dealing with the heat, and I believe it was less hot, and the air would have been crystal clear.
Ramble ramble. I miss the Phoenix of the 1970s, with the exception of the dust storms - you just can't keep that stuff out of the house, and the poor horse was miserable during them.
caliche is the integral ingredient of adobe, the mud/clay
add sand.
it makes a great non permanent mortar that returns to the earth as great soil for future food stuffs.
retro in this case would mean regressive (to Neanderthal mentality), vado what is your opinion on the Minute Klan?
Liberty Bell
there are good green programs here and everywhere LEED is being implemented around the nation, world by the GBC
Scottsdale Green Build program does allot too.
sure i think we all understand the human race is unsustainable.
as far as mas transit i look out my top floor skyscraper office and see it going in every day. it will help, but looking back in time on wikipedia you can see there used to be about 12 light rail routes in the past and were removed, something to do with oil and auto industry, hmm
and y don't we have more Solar Plants?
PS i have not seen anybody with a bikini ya that was a really bad idea to generalize or to let another tell you to not do something because of possible emotions they want to protect you from, there is always choice
jonas i lived in new mexico for 12 years have a masters from the university of new mexico and have worked with adobe. so get out of my dish cuz you don't know a fucking thing about me.
le bossman what makes you say that? where havn't i traveled? as a citizen of the world i would like to inform you i have been to all continents. "need to" ?? coming from anybody that statement is unwelcome, because it assumes a position and it denies choice first most. not to mention it does not say what the need would be.
cool snooker.
thanks to him we prove vados misconceptions incorrect ;) who talks about history in revisionist terms and will not answer my minutemen question. makes up country names. somebody call his HR ;)
one of those 'masters' people hahahahah disgruntled with reason i suppose.
you are in my dish son, stop hijacking this tread with your lies, thanks.
happy cinco de mayo to all!
Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862
how does that prove me wrong. casa grande is not an adobe structure and a disagreement over the history of adobe in the southwestern united states has led to "mud"slinging on your part. apparently, anyone who disagrees with you is an antiimmigration revisionist george bush supporting yahoo rather than someone who has lived in and studied the architecture and the history of the area.
Actually Portland Cement is the undertoad of Adobe Structures.....
if you Stucco a building with Portland Cement based stucco you end up with basil erosion....the wall will start to fail at the bottom because of trapped moisture. It is a bummer so many old adobe structures have met their death by unknowing architects.
adobe had been in use by indigenous peoples of the Americas in the Southwestern United States, Mesoamerica, and the Andean region of South America for several thousand years, although often substantial amounts of stone are used in the walls of Pueblo buildings.
Phoenix Falling?
here is a article by Graig Childs on:
House of Rain: Tracking a Vanished Civilization Across the American Southwest, a feat of historical detection in which he attempts to uncover the real story behind the Anasazi, the 2,000-year-old civilization that flourished in the region now known as New Mexico and then vanished without a trace.
Childs investigates the greatest "unsolved mystery" of the American Southwest. The Anasazi, the native peoples who by the 11th century converged on Chaco Canyon (now New Mexico), built a flourishing cultural center. By the 13th century, the Anasazi were gone from Chaco. What happened?
really good article makes you think about our own civilization.
I found this interesting...read. I kept thinking while reading it I would like to be a spider listing in on Will Bruder and his Wife as they discuss Civilization as I know she is an archeologist.
anasazi is no longer the proper nomenclature. ancient pueblo peoples is preferred. also, in the article they talk about adobe. well, the hohokam didn't have adobe. adobe was a technology introduced by the spanish.
vado, you are so wrong on every level, i will not even begin.
Bruder and all the other Architects down here with a green passion could have quite the talk but would people attend and would people like vado show up and dissent with GWB revisionist type double speak?
I have made plenty of Adobes it was my introduction to architecture building with adobes in NM and i know very well the Spanish colonizers had nothing to do with it but pillaging enslaving and exploiting the resources of these people who had great civilizations.
jonas77 - where's the adobe at chaco? my recollection is that it is entirely stacked stone.
chaco...yep stacked stone....amazingly stacked stone I might add!
I thought this was a thread about sagging implants in Scottsdale
Jonas....thinking Vado....went to school in New Mexico...sly smile.
They named a motel after him!
i like his library
Bruder does have a nice project on his web site in Mesa...which relates to this thread....you will just have to go find his site...I'm working....so don't have time to piss around for you lazy people.
cool
if you find it i am interested. no lazy people on this end
if you want to go to the book signing and speech let me know
for the lazy ones: http://willbruder.com/workeducational_gateway.htm
well if you can find any adobe in new mexico pre spanish arrival let me know. cuz chaco canyon is stone, acoma pueblo the oldest continuosly inhabited site in the united states is stacked stone.
Vado I will stand behind you on this one....thinking about all those places I crawled around in the canyonlands....no adobe there....only adobe i have seen has been later in the Persido Neighborhood of Tucson and the South End...and Fort Lowell neighborhood which was certainly much later than chaco canyon...or the ruins spoken of in Phoenix.
Joanas,
Suggested reading: Anasazi Ruins of the SouthWest in Color,
William Ferguson and Arthur H. Rohn.
vado...damn you for showing my DIGGS!
there is no damning for real, the Spanish Colonialists and Puritans brought that false 'idea' and not the adobe.
When I was in New Mexico laying adobes, I was told that the aforementioned slave labor is the reason adobes of the American Soutwest are so much heavier and larger than the adobes used in the Middle East, where people were building their own homes. Those smaller bricks look a lot easier to build domes out of as well....
Larger 14" bricks stacked the thick direction allow for more mass and a proper thermal lag for the climate that and small windows.
I would post a image of my Adobe Hogan but how do you do that?
acoma pueblo is adobe.
Jonas- the image needs to be hosted online, then use the code written in grey at the bottom of the page(under the comment box)
where is your hogan?
acoma was originally stacked stone; the adobe came later.
jonas77 - the code to post images and urls is at the bottom of the page, in light grey.
your image has to be hosted elsewhere (not on your local machine).
but there it is:
Required code to post a link - link
Required code to post an image -
here's pic of acoma:
well played...and the mission, same deal?
mission?
there's a church there - its adobe.
it's built at the edge of the mesa, ie. unused space at the time.
el jeffe,
it is in the Gila Mountain range near the Cliff dwellings on the edge of National Forest land 100 yards from the continental divide.
I'll be there next week installing a new solar array and putting the moves in place to erect my solar passive pumice-crete geodesic dome, that i now nearly have the prototype in my yard done.
has anybody been the the oldest house and oldest church in Santa Fe? where the copied the local pueblo designs, still standing.
another post after work on the way.
I thought so - to make the image fit, you add ONE space after the end of the code, then "width=418' with no quotation marks, then the bracketed "img".
thanks, it's a nice picture of:
Casa Grande Ruins National Monument, in Coolidge, Arizona just northeast of the city of Casa Grande, preserves a group of Hohokam structures.
The national monument consists of the ruins of multiple structures surrounded by a compound wall constructed by the Hohokam, who farmed the Gila Valley in the early 1200s. "Casa grande" is Spanish for "big house" and the name refers to the largest structure on the site, which is what remains of a four story structure that may have been abandoned by the mid-1400s. The structure is made of caliche, and has managed to survive the extreme weather conditions for about seven centuries.
another
Manitou Cliff Dwellings
The Manitou Cliff Dwellings located just west of Colorado Springs, Colorado on US Highway 24. The adobe walls that make up the dwellings were hauled from Mesa Verde, several hundred miles to the southwest, and reassembled in their present location.
Ah, I was about to post "Didn't Casa Grande have a shade/protection structure over it?" and there is the pic. Thanks.
I just read the article. I haven't read Cadillac Desert, my husband read it and told me not to because it would depress me too much, and I'm sure he's right! I can only think of the Phoenix area with sadness these days, as it is so damn big and so damn empty. Meaning empty of thought, consideration, care, vision...just tons of Botoxees shopping for bikinis.
I know, I know, that's a generalization - there are people trying to bring Phoenix around to being more sustainable - note "more" sustainable, not necessarily actually sustainable, more like "sustainable for a longer period than if things keep going the way they are now" - and it seems the mass transit projects are a step in the right direction.
What would Phoenix look like if we could wipe it away (as happened to the Hohokam) and start over? If I had a time machine I'd go back to WWII era Phoenix - before everyone had air conditioning, I know there were vernacular approaches to dealing with the heat, and I believe it was less hot, and the air would have been crystal clear.
Ramble ramble. I miss the Phoenix of the 1970s, with the exception of the dust storms - you just can't keep that stuff out of the house, and the poor horse was miserable during them.
Anyway, outside of the adobe/non-adobe contretemps, it's a very good article. Perhaps a bit melodramatic, but only time will tell.
caliche ain't adobe.
vado you are adorably frustrating.
caliche is the integral ingredient of adobe, the mud/clay
add sand.
it makes a great non permanent mortar that returns to the earth as great soil for future food stuffs.
retro in this case would mean regressive (to Neanderthal mentality), vado what is your opinion on the Minute Klan?
Liberty Bell
there are good green programs here and everywhere LEED is being implemented around the nation, world by the GBC
Scottsdale Green Build program does allot too.
sure i think we all understand the human race is unsustainable.
as far as mas transit i look out my top floor skyscraper office and see it going in every day. it will help, but looking back in time on wikipedia you can see there used to be about 12 light rail routes in the past and were removed, something to do with oil and auto industry, hmm
and y don't we have more Solar Plants?
PS i have not seen anybody with a bikini ya that was a really bad idea to generalize or to let another tell you to not do something because of possible emotions they want to protect you from, there is always choice
jonas i lived in new mexico for 12 years have a masters from the university of new mexico and have worked with adobe. so get out of my dish cuz you don't know a fucking thing about me.
jonas i think you need to travel more
I worked for the guy who designed the shade structure for Casa Grande.....years and years ago.
I think they put that structure up for the Tourist who vist the place in August....just so they will not fry their brains in the heat.
you can get a fried brain sandwich in indianastan.
le bossman what makes you say that? where havn't i traveled? as a citizen of the world i would like to inform you i have been to all continents. "need to" ?? coming from anybody that statement is unwelcome, because it assumes a position and it denies choice first most. not to mention it does not say what the need would be.
cool snooker.
thanks to him we prove vados misconceptions incorrect ;) who talks about history in revisionist terms and will not answer my minutemen question. makes up country names. somebody call his HR ;)
one of those 'masters' people hahahahah disgruntled with reason i suppose.
you are in my dish son, stop hijacking this tread with your lies, thanks.
happy cinco de mayo to all!
Mexicans, you see, never forget who their friends are, and neither do Americans. That's why Cinco de Mayo is such a party -- A party that celebrates freedom and liberty. There are two ideals which Mexicans and Americans have fought shoulder to shoulder to protect, ever since the 5th of May, 1862
& how you could be oblivious to the history of your own area is beyond me vado, Aztlán
le bossman sorry i forgot i have only not been to 1 south America but i am very interested to go and many friends in various places there.
how does that prove me wrong. casa grande is not an adobe structure and a disagreement over the history of adobe in the southwestern united states has led to "mud"slinging on your part. apparently, anyone who disagrees with you is an antiimmigration revisionist george bush supporting yahoo rather than someone who has lived in and studied the architecture and the history of the area.
Jonas, you calling vado "son" is sexist. How do you know he's not a she?
I mean actually it's ageist, do you think youth cannot possess knowledge?
No, wait...really it's postist, since it's telling someone else not to post aka hijack "your" thread.
OH WAIT which actually means it's imperialist since this thread exists in the public realm and you are trying to selfishly control it!
Travel as much as you want, what you really need to find is a sense of humor ;-)
Actually Portland Cement is the undertoad of Adobe Structures.....
if you Stucco a building with Portland Cement based stucco you end up with basil erosion....the wall will start to fail at the bottom because of trapped moisture. It is a bummer so many old adobe structures have met their death by unknowing architects.
sigh
haha
stucco does not breath, i just did a straw bale.
thats not my area of new mexico since saguaro's do not grow there. better luck tomorrow.
ya spain.. ok
what are you talking about
Vado I alway thought Sagauaro was you girlfriend.....Wink! Kind of a prickly ole cowgal...
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