For a class this semester, I am analyzing the Jacob Javits Plaza in downtown Manhattan -- you know, the plaza that was occupied by this but is now occupied by this -- and would like to add some opinions on the current Martha Schwartz design into the mix of observations and history.
So, what do you Archinecters think about the plaza? Is it art? Is it Pop? Is it a masterpiece? Is it crap? I'm open to all opinions but would like you to back it up with some reasoning. And don't worry, any opinions I use in the final report will be anonymous.
Here's a bit of my own take that will hopefully get the ball rolling.
Briefly, I am approaching the plaza's design from the view that it cannot be divorced from what came before, Serra's Tilted Arc. My first impression on seeing images of the project years ago were that it was goofy, a bit too goofy for my tastes, which veer towards something like Serra's piece. Now having spent days in the plaza, watching how people interact with the space, it appears to work, at least in terms of its intentions as a "waiting room" for the Federal Building and lunch spot for employees. The lack of shade means it is not used for long periods, and on weekends the place is empty, perhaps owing to its location in the city but also to its location above sidewalk level.
Given my contention that it cannot be divorced from Serra's minimal work, I think the space went so far in the opposite direction that it's over-designed. I've counted approx. 1,700 linear feet of bench, meaning that with 100 people it still appears empty, especially when people space themselves along lines of personal space. Observing people in the space, some are confused by the curls and have to retrace their steps to get where they're going. That's an ironic twist on a project that's the antithesis of a wall that dictated people's movements; freedom was not the opposite in this case, and the limited usefulness of the space (waiting, eating) reinforces that.
Well, I dont' want to say too much, though I'm sure others have different opinions than my own. In particular I'm interested if people view the design as artistic, or how they see it in those terms. It strives to be art, but functional art, unlike Serra's arc which lacked any useful function.
Having waited at that Plaza 4 times during my naturalization process, I have to say I agree with most of archidose's points. While the benches are much more useful than an overbearing scalless art piece, they are "over designed" in that the inhabitability of the plaza is not greatly improved by their presence. The lack of shade is almost unbearable, and the curves merely a graphical exercise in the spirit of serra. (come to think of it, at least the serra pieces gave some shade). I also got caught in one of the curves first time i went there, foolishly thinking I would be able to follow a direct path into the building. Not many people seem to use it, and the line for Immigration services wraps along the building, not utilizing the seats at all. So I guess it's underutilized on purpose as well. Plus, the seats are just damned ugly!
Never went there while the Serra was up, however...so I couldn't tell you for sure whether the plaza has been improved or not.
it looks like an easy drawing.
by looking at the plan, a person have to transverse the whole creation to get to the other side unless they jump over the seats. probably there is a hard assed position about this in the designers mind but when things like that forced in pedestrian oriented spaces, i just want to go there and break the damn thing in the middle or just have the designer go around and around as a punishment.
take your joke somewhere else.
related note;
i remember serra saying/threatening, he'd leave the country if they remove his brutality from the plaza. they did and did he leave the country? no.. fuck him too. he is not the greatest artist they make him to be.
Thanks poncedeleonel and Orhan. I'm heading over there this afternoon to see how the space works with the immigrant rally. Might be interesting, or might be the usual and the crowds "decide" to locate themselves elsewhere. We'll see.
May 1, 07 1:34 pm ·
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Martha Schwartz - Opinions on Javits Plaza
For a class this semester, I am analyzing the Jacob Javits Plaza in downtown Manhattan -- you know, the plaza that was occupied by this but is now occupied by this -- and would like to add some opinions on the current Martha Schwartz design into the mix of observations and history.
So, what do you Archinecters think about the plaza? Is it art? Is it Pop? Is it a masterpiece? Is it crap? I'm open to all opinions but would like you to back it up with some reasoning. And don't worry, any opinions I use in the final report will be anonymous.
Thanks.
Here's a bit of my own take that will hopefully get the ball rolling.
Briefly, I am approaching the plaza's design from the view that it cannot be divorced from what came before, Serra's Tilted Arc. My first impression on seeing images of the project years ago were that it was goofy, a bit too goofy for my tastes, which veer towards something like Serra's piece. Now having spent days in the plaza, watching how people interact with the space, it appears to work, at least in terms of its intentions as a "waiting room" for the Federal Building and lunch spot for employees. The lack of shade means it is not used for long periods, and on weekends the place is empty, perhaps owing to its location in the city but also to its location above sidewalk level.
Given my contention that it cannot be divorced from Serra's minimal work, I think the space went so far in the opposite direction that it's over-designed. I've counted approx. 1,700 linear feet of bench, meaning that with 100 people it still appears empty, especially when people space themselves along lines of personal space. Observing people in the space, some are confused by the curls and have to retrace their steps to get where they're going. That's an ironic twist on a project that's the antithesis of a wall that dictated people's movements; freedom was not the opposite in this case, and the limited usefulness of the space (waiting, eating) reinforces that.
Well, I dont' want to say too much, though I'm sure others have different opinions than my own. In particular I'm interested if people view the design as artistic, or how they see it in those terms. It strives to be art, but functional art, unlike Serra's arc which lacked any useful function.
Having waited at that Plaza 4 times during my naturalization process, I have to say I agree with most of archidose's points. While the benches are much more useful than an overbearing scalless art piece, they are "over designed" in that the inhabitability of the plaza is not greatly improved by their presence. The lack of shade is almost unbearable, and the curves merely a graphical exercise in the spirit of serra. (come to think of it, at least the serra pieces gave some shade). I also got caught in one of the curves first time i went there, foolishly thinking I would be able to follow a direct path into the building. Not many people seem to use it, and the line for Immigration services wraps along the building, not utilizing the seats at all. So I guess it's underutilized on purpose as well. Plus, the seats are just damned ugly!
Never went there while the Serra was up, however...so I couldn't tell you for sure whether the plaza has been improved or not.
it looks like an easy drawing.
by looking at the plan, a person have to transverse the whole creation to get to the other side unless they jump over the seats. probably there is a hard assed position about this in the designers mind but when things like that forced in pedestrian oriented spaces, i just want to go there and break the damn thing in the middle or just have the designer go around and around as a punishment.
take your joke somewhere else.
related note;
i remember serra saying/threatening, he'd leave the country if they remove his brutality from the plaza. they did and did he leave the country? no.. fuck him too. he is not the greatest artist they make him to be.
Thanks poncedeleonel and Orhan. I'm heading over there this afternoon to see how the space works with the immigrant rally. Might be interesting, or might be the usual and the crowds "decide" to locate themselves elsewhere. We'll see.
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