do an archinect search on the two schools and you'll find lots of previous input. but ummm, if you choose upenn, how are you going to accept by tomorrow's deadline?

extension... I talked to the Penn admission. I'll be alright.

ahhhh ic.

this is latest thread about these two schools... I believe

you must be related to designbydesign

almost identical introduction

i don't think i know that designbydesign. i'm not in the US. but... we are all designers, so it's ok to be identical. that thread didn't provide a lot of info.

Don't really know a whole lot abut Wash U but, as a current Penn student, I gotta say I can't see Wash U being any better than Penn. Penn has alot going for it. True, it is in Philly and Philly sucks a big one, but what is going on at Penn outweighs that in my mind.

Your decision should be based on what you want. If you want a fabrication heavy experience, don't come to Penn. But, if you want to learn how to think and design in new ways come to Penn. Penn is on the forefront of innovation, not just innovation within convention.

If you come to Penn you will learn to script, you will learn GC, you will learn non-linear analysis. You won't just become another one of those pornographers who produce complex surface conditions, rather you'll become someone who knows the geometric complexity that lies beneath the surface of strictly surface acrobatics. I think it is great.

Before getting here brush up on geometry and calculus and you'll be glad you did, and, if you don't, learn some computer code, like vbscript. If you don't know it, don't be intimidated by it b/c you will soon learn how powerful it can be.

I'm curious to know what Wash U has going on these days for its' program.

hope this helps....

thanks for the info. are there a lot of International students? 10%? 20%?

It is interesting because the opening statement on the Penn State arch website said something about how they still value hand drawings and models, but in Norman's post, he seems to allude to the fact that there is much fancy software seduction being emphasized. Calculus and surface acrobatics? I don't think great architects need all of that to do a nice space and a good building.

when people confuse Penn and Penn State...I like to tell them that Penn is an internet college...and that they should check it out..cheap classes and learn from home. Unless thats a joke.

Let Chairman Mao say something about this.

I just came back from Wash U. Their program is pretty sick. I have to say this. Heavy model making in the first semester. Not too much of computer stuff. Students will get into that later. (Upcoming new students are really cool. We got drunk at the local bar.)

UPenn. If you aren't good at playing with the computer. You are screwed. I mean they have model making stuff just like any other schools. More conceptual than Wash U. Almost 30% of the students at Penn Design are international. The facilities are smaller and older.

Which one is better? for the real world? You tell me.

Chairman-Mao, I'm strongly considering Wash U too- can you tell me in a little more detail why their program is so sick? I've read every thread about wash u but no one is saying anything specific.
I heard from a student there that almost every project was computer intensive. The study abroad options are a major plus too.

it's a top school. you should go. you got 2 weeks left.

why would you apply to two schools you know nothing about? these threads continue to amaze me.

he / she said "not in the United State". That's why.... Perhaps.

it seems that one should research schools before they apply and not just send out apps to schools ranked on some bs list. architecture schools are different strokes for different folks. this is my only point. and i especially would not apply to a school in another country without any info on it.

bro.. be open minded. that person is from oversea. get over it. let he/she do whatever. he/she might be a better designer than you. Peace.

look.....I wasnt tying to be rude, just being straight forward. i think everyone on this board is prepared to handle straight forward comments after going through years of crits. I just like to keep in mind the quote "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one"

I'll be at Wash U next fall! had to turn down Columbia and UW

may i ask you why turn down UW and Columbia?

i would like to go visit. i'm from New Zealand. i can't leave the country now.

murray - welcome to Givens! i finished up 3 years ago and stuck around STL despite the loathening i developed for the city while i was still in school.

got my first job here in a small (4 person) firm. we do historic tax-credit rehabs, loads and loads of accessibility (my boss is the guru of STL and writes the Fed. guidelines), lots of "adaptive reuse" and just recently landed about 20 Chase Park condos that will keep us in butter and sugar for the next 2 years.

i missed the program you'll be in - Bachelor? Masters? You get the new F.Maki building! it looks cool - i'm jealous! serious. very nice.

and yeah - mental is right - if you haven't experienced crit yet you will thicken up quick or die!

I'll be in the M arch 2 year program.

It was a really tough choice though- in the end I wasnt convinced that 3 years at Columbia and a lifetime of debt after graduating would be worth it for me. The total lack of space was also a concern about Columbia. UW is good too, but they seemed more practice and craft based while I was looking for more theory, technology, fabrication stuff. Wash u's facilities cant be beat either and they give really good financial aid.

still dont know about living in st louis itself after graduating though. hope the degree travels well...

what? related to me? what is going on here?

murray -

wash u has a new dean - one i don't know at all - but the old dean was really good about not letting the program get really preachy towards one particular style...it is VERY individualistic (when i was there) and seemed to be most concerned with developing a design skill-set from within each student - needless to say, this approach frustrates a lot of students who just want to be told what to do.

there were a few instructors who were tech-heavy, and one from Zaha's office, that were pretty strident about their particular ways and means, but you can easily escape their clutches if you feel you need to.

i was MArch3, but had buds (and buddinas) in the MArch2 prog - everybody benefits from the open studio environment.

the study abroad rocks the shithouse - i spent a semester in helsinki under the tutelage of juhani pallasmaa and some of his associates, and the visiting prof list is pretty sweet for a relatively overlooked and un-talked-about school.

if you have any questions, just ask...and don't worry about STLouis - you won't have time to do anything else but work anyway - in a way it's the perfect place - no distractions.

Are you kidding me??? you have an admission to Penn and considering U. Wa..what???

It doesn't take an Einstein to figure it out!! Penn of course...

The thinking, teaching, international exposure, high-profile teachers, proximity to NYC, facilities, future potential and of course employment potential. Many of graduates end up at: SOM, KPF, Foster's, Gehry, SHoP, TEN, Vinoly, Libeskind, HOK, PeiFreedCobb and many others...

It's a no-brainer!!

they are talking about Washington University in St. Louis. Not university of washington in seattle.

all the same to me.. Wash U or U Wash.. Same answer

oh dude... are you kidding me. Do some research.

someone here tell this Frozenmusic about Wash U.

I'm sorry if any of you who go to Wash U. feel offended. I'm not here to undermine any school.

However, I've done a lot of research, probably more than most people. I hold 3 degrees in architecture and engineering. The last being from UPenn. I have 4 years of experience as well. So I may have better judgement than some people at least!

The transformation that Penn is going through now is way beyond most other schools. The stuff being discussed and taught there haven't been even heard of in most other schools. And I'm talking from personal experience.

We're talking about a different level of architectural education. I'm just trying to be honest and give dddlll the facts..

Penn and WashU are pretty comparably ranked, and have comparable faculty and facilities. WashU grads ALSO end up at all of the firms frozenmusic listed, ie -- 2 of my classmates from when I was there have worked for Gehry and Holl, and HOK is based here in StL.

but really, if you say WashU and UW are the same, then do more of your so called research and work it out.

say what you like. I know what I'm talking about..

btw, frozen... u of washington (in seattle) has a pretty great program itself. i think you're right in saying that there's a lot of stuff going on at penn in a way, or to a degree unlinke anywhere else. that said, it might not be for everyone. it's a very good program, but that doesn't make it an absolute must for everyone.

dddlll- i almost went to wash u, it is a good program, and from my research, and visiting and talking with professors and students i had a mostly positive impression of the place. i was a bit turned-off by the apparent lack of work that actually attempted to deal with the city of st louis and the campus itself is really a suburban sort of place. some really amazing professors though.

have you checked out hasselhof's blog?

here

frozenmusic

it doesn't matter how many degrees and experience you have. you don't have to tell us all these. we really care. we wanna be just like you, so bad...

but dude, frozenmusic. like db said: "do more of your so called research and work it out."

I was not saying the U Wash is on the same level with Wash U. I know Wash U-ST. Louis is a better school than UW but that doesn't change the fact the Penn is on another level. Besides the worst thing you can do when choosing a school is base it on rankings..

I stand by what I said. Penn is a much better program and those who have attended or are attending Penn in the past 2 years can confirm that.

designbydesign, you're just pissed coz its your school. I understand. Btw, if you knew me and the place I'm working at you'ld wanna be just like me so bad..!

I feel your pain ddddlllllllllll, I can't decide if I should shorts or pants. We have rather similar crises.

I'm just stopping in to say that I, too, want to be just like frozenmusic. I am so jealous. Oh, oh, I can't take the envy. Oh please. Make it stop.

I mean, who doesn't aspire to be a royal douchebag?

frozenmusic, I want to be just like you so bad. Who are you and where do you work? Is it difficult designing with your head up your ass?

oh dude... frozenmusic. I'm not going to Wash.U. I will be at RISD next fall. Yeah, I wanna be just like you. We all do here on Archinect. Are you running for president next year?

"I know Wash U-ST. Louis is a better school than UW"

how do you know this? i met someone at wash u's open house last year who chose uw over it... i mean, this idea that you can summarily decree that one school is where someone should go over another betrays... i don't know what exactly.

it's not a matter of "Penn is a much better program" yes, by all accounts it is in sum a better program. but in the end it's rarely a school's being best as a whole that makes it a good place for any perticular person to attend.

i'm sure at some point in your life you've been rejected romantically by someone, who then decided they'd like to be with someone else. and you wonder, "i'm smarter, better looking, wittier, more charming, a better bowler, better smelling... etc, than this other person, why choose them over me?" and the answer is that there is not necessarily an answer. different people fit together, some don't.

different people have different educational expectatoins, interests and goals. it would be very helpful, i think to interested students if you could explain what you like about penn. specifically, what you've learned there that you wouldn't have elsewhere. what the faculty are like, what the studio environment is like....