Uh, even as a GSAPP dropout, I can say that one thing Columbia does get is well known faculty and guests. Last fall alone, I went to (among others) lectures given by Robert Venturi, Ben van Berkel and Ole Scheeren. Peter Cook was teaching a studio. The names go on and on. But if you want to take a class with Gehry, then Columbia can't help you.

As for the program, the school is disorganized and still lacking a coherence, even though Wigley has been dean for a few years now. The facilities are atrocious, and the faculty I encountered (with the strong exception of Architectural History lectures) were generally apathetic. The theoretical reputation of the school was nowhere to be found. Maybe in Wigley's lecture courses (which I wasn't enrolled in), but definitely not in studio critiques.

If you have any inclination to hand drafting or work much with study models, or really to work hands-on at all, I would say skip Columbia. Resolution of built form is definitely not a strong suit of the school. That's the danger of digital architecture. I'm not cut out to be a glorified graphic designer with carpal tunnel and an MArch.

These (and others) are some of the reasons why I'm leaving the program to attend Cranbrook.

Chuck Norris by a landslide.

I was rooting for godzilla- bummer...

I have visited both programs and I was not impressed by anything I saw at Columbia. Your descriptions of both programs are pretty accurate, so I don't think there is much I can offer you.

For me it would be Yale by a landslide. There is more of a focus on making things but experimentation is part of it too. To say that they are more pragmatic makes it sound boring and I think that is quite misleading.
Yale has a very structured program, so everyone takes the same studios for the first 2 years and then third year you get to choose what you want and there is always a few starchitects thrown in there. Be careful what you wish for though as most of the famous architects don't have any time to give to you.

New Haven isn't so great and is actually a bit dangerous. Lots of crime and class struggles. The school is pretty much right in the ghetto, but you will be in studio so whats it really matter. It's actually not that bad, you just have to be smart.

Good luck with your decision. Those are two very good schools you have to pick from.

Good discussion. Three questions I would add are: (1) what do the graduates from these schools end up doing? (2) which school is better for trail biking and jogging? (3) what is the social life like at the schools?

Although I have not talked to a huge amount of graduates, I know several that have ended up working at places like Greg Lynn FORM, FOGA, Pelli Clarke Pelli, Rick Joy, Richard Rodgers, Benhisch and Associates (I think that's the name of the firm), etc, etc.

As for social life, the School of Architecture is notorious (along with the Yale School of Drama and the Yale School of Art) as being quite antisocial. This is probably due to studio culture, etc, etc.

However, one of the neat things about Yale is the transparency inbetween the departments and schools -- an architecture student can take classes all over the university (once they're in the elective-choosing stage). I think MED students take nothing but electives -- so they have more access to the university than the rest of the School of Architecture (I don't know, nor have I met any of them, however). This is quite different than other schools, where each school and department is its own principality, as opposed to being part of an organic whole.

Good luck with your decision.

Just to comment on Yale being anti-social, I found on my visit that it was actually quite the opposite. The studios are very open allowing for everyone to talk to eachother easily. But I imagine that there is probably some validity to the rumor.

Columbia by a landslide!

I don't know about inter-departmental interaction at Yale, but from my few visits to the architecture program and with the students, there is definitely a social scene within the department that seems to go beyond the typical studio culture.

I'm a first year MArch at Columbia and I haven't had an experience anywhere near sqsq's. I build plenty of study models. I have a friend that likes to cast wax models and concrete models. There are some pretty amazing material studies that I have seen. The instructors I have had may have been at times demanding, challenging, or frustrating, but they haven't been apathetic. I use the computer frequently but not exclusively.

There is a lot of knowledge of a lot of different threads of discourse at the school. I have been suprised by a lot of what I've learned so far--engrossing and not at all what I was expecting. In one course I am taking we are making films. Another is very specifically about the development contemporary global socioeconomic and urban condition with a particular emphasis on its manifestations in Architecture. There is much more variety then I had first thought.

I also have friends I respect a great deal that go to Yale, so check out both yourself before deciding!

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis so far. I appreciate it. Although the one-liners aren't very helpful - I'm not taking a vote here! I'm just looking to assemble information and opinions about the schools so I can make my own very informed decision.

More analysis from those who know these programs would be very helpful.

Robust,

I'm facing a choice somewhat similar to yours. Send me an email and maybe we can talk more. Although I don't really know the specifics of each school either. I'll be visiting next week though.

Cool.

robust, i have some info from friends who are students there. msg me if you're interested.

i think the real question to be asked is; who has the best Mojitos?

New Haven is a much, much better place to live than Morningside Heights. You get a lot more space for less money. Columbia is isolated in the middle of a megapolitan sprawl that's impossible to escape from. From Yale, you can ride a bicycle for five minutes and be on miles of public beach or state parks with 100s of miles of hiking trails. At Columbia you can live in Brooklyn or downtown, sure, but then you are commuting your ass off and never going out because it just takes too long on the subway. No matter where you live in New Haven, nice neighborhood (wealthier than the Upper East Side) or not (area with immigrants just like Queens or Brooklyn), you'll never be more than five minutes from anywhere else or any of your friends. Oh yeah, New Haven has a bad rep, but that's left over from the 1980s and 1990s. The storefronts have all filled in now with swanky shops and Starbucks outlets and there are luxury apartments everywhere.

Crime-wise, New Haven is much safer. New Haven and its immediately bordering towns, within a 5-10 minute drive of the center, have a population of 500,000 people and have had 3 murders so far this year, all 3 of them involving drug dealers. New York City, excluding far-flung suburban sections, has about 10x the population (5,000,000) and 200 murders. Philly has 1,500,000 people and has had 180 murders. Do the math. You have to be careful in any city but the danger of New haven is greatly exaggerated because people who live there hear about everything that happens. If a kid gets punched at the bus stop or a drug dealer has his wallet stolen, it is literally the top news story in the local papers. A murder will be in the news for days, when it happens. In New York, people get shot to death right down the block in robberies, but you never hear about it. The local papers there don't even publish a quarter of the murders that happen there, and only about 50% get solved. Ditto for Philadelphia - there is a headline only if it is one like "11 killed in bloodbath weekend" (a couple weeks ago). Murders in New Haven are almost always solved about 5 minutes after they happen because it is a small city.

when i visited columbia, there were no sketches, no physical models, and each "desk" was about 4 feet from the next. and the facilities were much lower than i expected.

i'd actually suggest uva as an alternative, at least if their new additions are up and running.

Why not Penn? May I ask?

I'd like New Haven better than NY, but NY was one of my primary reasons for not going to Columbia.

My opinion probably ain't worth much, but I haven't heard anything positive about Yale's program for the past 30 years, maybe more.


Look at the student work. I think too many take overall school reputation (Yale is certainly a good school, but for arhcitecture?) and the 'prestige' of the name more than what goes on in the schools.

I really do think that schools go in 'waves', as far as quality of education. Each of the tops have/had a great 10 years or so, then they fade. Kinda like a sports team - they get some stars, things are good for years, then things fade and another takes their place.

I missed Columbia's heyday by about 5-8 years. Their student work was starting to stink when I got in, so I chose not to go. This was also inline with their falling reputation (the 'place to be' was LA/UCLA).

The student work will not lie. People on here will ;-)

"Why not Penn? May I ask?"

I spoke with 12-15 different Penn graduates while touring Yale and GSD earlier this year and they all said the exact same thing, "Penn is headed in a bad direction". Apparently there program has changed significantly in the past few years. I have never been to Penn but I did research it quite a bit and spoke with graduates, so take that for what its worth.

I would chose Yale over all those other schools. I was really impressed with there program. Tons of models everywhere and they have better facilities than any other school I saw. They were the only school that had a 5-axis CNC mill and a water jet. They have an emphasis on making things so they have the tools to allow you to experiment. Although they are moving to a temporary building this year while there normal building is being renovated, so that could be a good or bad thing....who knows.

Yale has rebound? It wouldn't surprise me, givne the cyclical nature of the 'top' schools. Very interesting.

I would caution anyone on basing a choice on facilities. It's the professors and program, mostly the fellow students, that will make the difference.

I think New Haven will continue to improve as a city, too. CT is a gorgeous state with tons of room to grow.

of the penndesign crits i've seen, it seems sexy blobs are beginning to replace good architecture. the facilities aren't state of the art, but they are definately good enough to do almost anything you need. if you befriend the shop guys, they will be your biggest and best resource.

question; does it seem that choice of grad school has more to do with positioning oneself for the job AFTER MARCH? it just seems that getting this professor or that professor has more to do with getting the "right" job after one graduates. now others like Javier, +q, meta, and the bartlett crew seem more involved in their own discourse and learning, than egaged in a discussion about which school, which professor, which facility.....i too am interested in grad school, but the things that people talk about don't interest me too much.

I had similar struggles choosing a school. One professor in fact old me "If you want to work internationally you have to go to Harvard." But at the end of the day, you will make the name for yourself; not the school for you. Sure the professors you get will influence you and where you get a job, and influence how you think about things, but you cant let that be everything. This is about your education, about your interests - its your life - and honestly you have to believe that (given, weighing differences between schools of similar "reputation" ie. Yale and Columbia) you'll get the job you want because you worked hard to get it, you persued it, and the professors you team up with will match what you want to study (instead of you just chasing the big name school, then the big name job).

That same professor (who as you might have guessed went to Harvard) said he hated Harvard, but liked where it got him. So, who's to say? Maybe the name/job just allows you more freedom to do what you want.

It has become my impression, after a lot of discussion, that Columbia is more about questioning ideas of what space could be, and not very much concerned with the final resolution of form (which is why you dont see as many study models perhaps), whereas Yale (under Stern) is more...traditional. They are both full of really intelligent and engaged professors who will help you figure out what you are interested in. I happen to be very fond of both - I went to the GSAPP for a year long program and am now on my way to Yale for an mArch and have nothing but admiration for both programs.
ps - at Yale, you can definatley still get to attend Columbia lectures 1.5hrs away, and be involved in the NY arch scene (at least I intend to).

Basically, you'll get there, just make sure its YOU who gets there.

Sounds like you have already made your decision, so just go to Yale.

Given that this thread was started in March and that the deadline to accept an offer of admission is was in April, I think we can presume that the decision has already been made.

"If you pick the wrong school your life will be RUINED!!! So you'd better go to the school I picked." That seems to be the most common advice...