Nope. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that my non-Ivy-league B.Arch holding self is making more than the Ivy-league M.Arch holding person sitting next to me.

i think this also a discussion we've had in some context already, i think the consensus was, "no".

No way, once you go to the Ivy League, all sorts of doors open for you, most of these doors have piles and piles of cash behind them.

Thats where your wrong - more doors to the same place open for you. Ivy - League leads to choice interviews. Thats about where it ends. The rest is up to you. Most ivy leagers Ive come accross in work situations like to brag about their school and complaine about their jobs.

whats the advantage then? i only ask because i have to make a grad school decision (finally) and it basically comes down to expensive high caliber ivy league vs. much less expensive not as high caliber state school. seems like friends and family are gung ho about ivy league but i'll be the one stuck with debt...what pros (vs cons) are there that make the debt worth it? doors opened? educational level? networking opp's? all of these are very unquantifiable...i guess i'm searching for a quantifiable reason to bury myself in debt woes...

if you are good, you will make more $$$. It's all about you. NOT the school. There are dumbasses in GSD... but some smart jokers from OK state might make more $$$ than you coz of talent...

The answer is very simple, go to an Ivy business school. That way you can brag about your school and your salary!

not so worried about salary as compared to others...moreso of salary compared to my monthly loan payments. i've figured out and decided it can be done...just need to figure out if it's worth it...

ivy league graduates either work for broke ass star architects, or they
work for themselves. If they know how to manage money they make money, if they don't either their family is carrying them or their wives family is carrying them. There other option which seems more often than not is to teach...

oh...i should mention that being involved in academia as well as practice is very important to me...by the way

I think the Ivies offer their biggest advantages in terms of caliper of faculty and networking opportunities. That said, I think it also depends a lot on location. If you plan on starting your career in New York City or elsewhere on the East Coast, I think an Ivy League name would open a lot of doors for you. However, if you plan on practicing elsewhere in the country, I doubt it would make a difference where you went to school. If you do go to an Ivy League school, just be sure to make lots of friends among MBA students; they'll be your future clients.

Out of curiosity - which schools are you choosing between?

"their wives family is carrying them"

snooker, that a slam on josh prince-ramus?

I'd be curious as to what schools betamax is chosing between as well. There's plenty of public universities (UCLA and UMich come to mind) that have excellent architecture programs, and even though it's easy to talk about "The Ivy League" as if it's one homogenous block of schools, each Ivy League architecture program has its own unique characteristics. For example, from what I've read here, GSD seems like a completely different animal than UPenn, which is a completely different animal than Princeton.

GSD...MAUD degree

U. of Cincinnati DAAP...MSARCH/MARCH

holz....nope there are alot of females in those ivy league schools that do fine and can afford to support an architect husband....or her
family can if he doesn't come from a genterfied background.

betamax,

You have answered your own question...to impress your friends and family. I suppose having an Ivy Leauge window sticker on your car looks pretty cool...

is the color blue better than the color orange?

Well, if the DI rankings are to be believed (insert debate here), an M.Arch. from DAAP carries more street cred than a lot of Ivy League programs, and is a hell of a lot cheaper.

ivy might open a few more doors in the real world of firms, but doors practically disappear in academia with an ivy degree. columbia should do you quite well. will you ever pay off your loans? probably. consider it an investment -- you can spend $120,000 on a new house but it probably won't get you as much lucre as a $120,000 columbia degree...unless you design the house yourself

go teach at a state school with that ivy degree so that you can pay off your debt...you wouldn't be the first.

I think it comes down to which is more important to you, doing interesting and/or relevant work or making lots of money?

interesting and/or relevant work - GSD

lots of money - U of C

I made more than an Ivy grad at an office without a bachelor degree.

Assuming (perhaps naively) that your salary is based on your skills/portfolio, does one learn more (or come out with a nicer looking portfolio) at an Ivy?

what are the DI rankings and how much weight do they actually hold and what kind of weight is that?

mdler, i guess the term "gung ho" is a bit misleading...i should say supportive...if i wanted to impress with an ivy league school i would have applied to more than one.

depends on where you are coming from. although the rigor alone would probably help you hone them no matter your skill level. Not that one can not have the same fortitude alone...but a supportive and well funded environment usually does not hurt.

weight...maybe 3 oz.

It depends. If you go to a school with less "status" (not necessarily Ivy League) you will have to work harder to get into the better positions. It is a matter of prestige for a lot of firms to say that all of their employees went to certain top tier schools. In my opinion, if you go to some swanky school you'll have an easier time getting hired.

Buckity - I agree with you but think meta is correct in that individual work ethic and quality still outweighs all...unless you own the place...or happen to f#$k the person that does.

i graduated from umich. i got a very good education there and think every penny was worth it, despite the debt. that being said, i believe you would have more opportunities at the GSD than you would at a state school. your statement that remaining involved in academia is important to you is also telling. having harvard on your resume will open doors at most any architecture school for teaching positions, moreso than having a state school.

i disagree with silverlake that GSD = more interesting work. there's always interesting work out there, if you have the initiative to find it and are open-minded enough to believe that the only interesting work is not in a starchitect's office.

there's a lot of weird answers here, so let's try to narrow down the questions:

betamax -

if you are asking about initial salary differences, then the short answer is there is probably not a lot of difference (and i'm saying this an employer and a grad of the gsd 10+ years ago). at least, i wouldn't put a premium on the school itself. i'd put more of a premium on what your individual skills and experiences are.

from a long term perspective, a lot depends on what you want to do career wise. if you want to teach full time, you have to have a master's these days and, to be perfectly honest, it helps to have an ivy league degree. simple reason is there's too many of those grads out there and it looks too good on the school's website not to hire them. if you want to teach part-time, it will matter far less which school you went to, just that you have a masters.

if your goal is to get a job in a corporate firm -say som - and make a career there, the ivy degree will look better and may get you that initial interview more easily. 10 years from now, though, it won't matter at all compared to your accomplishments within the firm.

if your goal is to ultimately open your own shop, an ivy degree always looks good to those mba types that you want as a client. believe me, they don't look at the rankings, could care less about which school was ranked where when you went to school, but they know that they typically don't let slouches into harvard.

which brings me to my concluding point: as sad as it is in this world, the harvard 'name' (or columbia, or whichever ivy) is far more recognized and valued by the general populace. that alone gives it some very real, very powerful cache that can, if you play the cards right, translate into more opportunities and more cash. (i should point out that this is more true the further you get away from boston and ny. there are simply too many grads there from ivy league schools, so it doesn't work so well. but in houston or minneapolis? a very different story).

i'm by no means a gsd apologist and would never be so arrogant as to say it's the 'top' school - that whole game is for chumps - but i would go there again and have absolutely no regrets about taking the plunge. yeah, the payments hurt for a while, but you get over them. it's a fantastic atmosphere, you have access to some of the best resources in the world, and you can take courses throughout the whole graduate school network, as well as at MIT.

so, if it were me, i'd pick the gsd and never look back. but that's just one vote.

best of luck with the decision...

meta- should I go to uPenn or Sci-Arc?

Silvelake

I am doing great, interesting work and I went to DAAP

at the same time, my MARCH from UC has never been brought up in a job interview, nor have any of my clients asked where I have gone to school

They are so different. I love them both, I think. I am a philosophy undergrad with a ton of architecture corsework (was a double major). I want a rigorous and complete education in the practical skills of architecture and a lot of theory. Tech resources are pretty important to me as well. Also, employability fter graduation is a factor. Any sage advice?

UC

I hate to say it, but "practical skills of architecture" isn't a phrase I normally associate with either SCI-Arc or UPenn.

Yeah, I've worked a bit so drawing details aren't something I really need from grad school I suppose.

It seems like the choice is really about where I want to work when I graduate. And that would definetly be the east coast.

Penn's letter said it was $37k. Cornell is $35k, GSD is $32k, Yale is $32k, I forget what Columbia is. Maybe Penn gives better funding though.

mdler, I not saying if you went to UC you can't do interesting work...

Its certainly possible to get involved in interesting work or even go on to work for starchitects coming from a state school.

Its just easier to go that route via the GSD because its the path of least resistence.

*I'm

No client or planning director or building official has ever even asked if I graduated little lone what school I went to?? Why does this debate continue?

sci-arc has that reputation and is reinforced by the work being done in the popular studios....here's the shocker: they have courses about "practical skills of architecture". instead of using the elective to take a mechanical systems class or practice environments most students prefer the critical theory class or creative writing or film class. if you balance your classes properly you can come out of there pretty close to employable.

heres a newsflash. if mr. architect needs an intern and hires you he aint gonna pay you more if you went to north bumfuck state(GOBUMS GO!!!!) or if you went to Hahvahd. Given the same experience level. you will get the same amount and that aint much. sorry. Anyway its about the Passion man. The Passion!!!! if you care about money you are a freakin sellout and should go design mcmansions for mcmillionaires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

passion, while flashin' fashion, take action, but forget getting cashing in...

i love that phrase, "pretty close to employable"...that's classic. this is only the people i have personally worked with, but very few of the ivy grads that i worked with fit that description. and they got laid off first because their hefty salaries made them vulnerable.

my state school education paid off after all.

i'm not sure that i want to be an architect

My question, what does a masters degree bring to the table in an office? Seems like we are lemmings, all chasing the master degree.
Well not all of us...but seems to be the rage.

My thoughts might be a bit astray on this one because of how I entered the profession, but I look out there and I really don't see the cutting edge stuff being brought to us by the IVY Boys and Girls.

it allows you to get licensed if you do not have a professional Bachelors in Architecture...so, if by all the rage you mean necessary, then I get your point.

the prettier you are, the better you get paid. I'm ugly and have a proportionate low salary to match, ivy degrees be damned!!!!