Sparked by this washingting post column (sorry, you need to register), my office has become a heated battleground over the need of interior designers to become licensed.
Architects, engineers, and landscape architects are licensed by most states to protect the 'health, safety, and welfare' of the public. Interior designers, led by several national organizations, are campaigning to become a licensed and regulated profession too.
(I'm not talking 'bout decorators, but people really engaged in what could be best described as 'interior architecture'.)
Do they legitimately and regularly engage in making HSW decisions in their practice, or face significant liability for these issues?
Are they seeking to creat gender parity (if they are the stereotypical women/gay male designer) with the historically male dominated architecture profession?
Or, are they status seeking, under-educated, paint color/fabric selecting, cubicle layouting para-professionals who have no need to stamp drawings, as the columnist is suggesting?
If you start to think of it in a low-VOC sort of way, you could definitely make an arguement that yes, interior designers (hate 'interior architect', it's bullshit) do deal with health. The materials they choose do have an impact on our well-being. And also, say an interior designer is doing a restaurant renovation which does not deal with anything structural, but DOES involve the kitchen. That definitely deals with public health.
Funny, I just noticed that a couple of the hizzos that ride my bus in the morning have swapped their copies of "Us Weekly" and "In Style Magazine" for Interior Design licensure study guides...
Interestingly, the column was written by George F. Will. I would think he has bigger topics to bugger up than interior design.
Also interestingly, there are 6 pages of comments. Lots and lots of interior designers weighing in, and I have to admit, they make a good argument as to why they should be licensed.
But I had to laugh at this one: one poster commented that being licensed requires fulfilling Continuing Education requirements: last week for me it was boning up on tuckpointing
tyvek you beat me to it. tuckpointing is the tooling of the joints btw bricks or stones, also known as just pointing. the tool is called a tuckpointer also. It is important (more exterior than interior) and not easy to do well.
Argh, sorry, blame it on the cold medicine: I got tuckpointing confused with tuck-pleating (aka tuck and roll) upholstery.
And the whole sentence just sounded funny to me, again, blame it on the cold medicine. God I wish I could breathe through my nose right now.
And yeah brer that's where the ID's commenting on the article made s strong points: re: flame retardancy of materials and egress in commercial settings.
City planners are 'certified' but probably under the HSW standard should be licensed. If we could only sue planners for traffic jams, air pollution, or flooded neighborhoods, we'd start living in better cities. Maybe licensing planners could end urban sprawl too...
Anybody know what liability an interior designer has? or can they stamp a set of drawings for a building permit?
In some states interior designers are licensed, in some they are certified. It all depends on the state legislation. I've worked for two different California certified interior designers and a couple of non-certified interior decorators. The divide really is between the commercial and the residential world. Commercial designers need to be licensed/certified because they need to get drawings stamped. A bulk of their work is tenant improvements, which, as you know involves items such as partitions and ceilings that must be approved by the city. I've never worked for a non-certified commercial designer, so I don't know how to get projects through if you don't have a stamp. Residential designers don't typically need to stamp anything. They work with contractors and architects who do a lot of the dirty work for them.
The process of taking the NCIDQ exam isn't nearly as difficult at the architectural licensing exam, but we still have quite a bit of a challenge. It includes codes, professional practices and a practicum. A two day test that isn't guaranteed to give you a passing grade. You can't even take the test until you have two year's experience with a certified or licensed professional. Once you pass the test you have the opportunity to become licensed/certified depending on the laws in your state.
Interior designers -- commercial interiors designer who have to call themselves 'interior architects' because they don't want to be confused with decorators -- want to be licensed so that they have the ability to get their work through the red tape of building permit legislation. They do carry liability in the design of a tenant improvement, just as an architect would. Unfortunately the AIA is lobbying heavily to prevent interior designers from even being able to stamp TI projects, because they don't like the fact that we're taking away their work. Trust me, though, there's plenty of TI work to go around.
It's not a gender thing unless you want it to be one.
To answer the question: Are Interior Designers Dangerous?
To architects who do commercial interiors -- yes.
To architects who want to sell furniture to their clients -- yes.
To architects who want to pick out pillows -- yes.
To architects who design structural buildings -- no.
After reading many of the comments left by the article's readers, I wonder why interior designers don't just become architects who focus on interiors, that's really what they want, then we can forget all of this.
It's unnecessary. I don't need or want to know structural, mechanical, plumbing, etc. I have a fundamental understanding from design school and my experiences in the field, but I could never specify the right bolts or the right beams. I want to focus on the interiors. I know a whole hell of a lot about commercial finishes, interior codes, and the like. That's all I need. My interior design status and training is completely appropriate for my work.
I second strawbeary, they wanna be licesnsed like us, they get paid like us. I'm sorry but the fact that Int. des. make more than architects sickens me to the core, and frankly i blame us architects. Its high time we got our shit together. IT'S REVOLUTION TIME!
It's not our fault that you make less. TI designers aren't swimming in dough, I'll tell you that. Designers who make big bucks are selling furniture and accessories. If I wanted to go fru-fru and be a 'decorator' I would probably make way more than in commercial work. Commercial designers who sell commercial furniture also make out pretty decently, but the whole systems furniture thing simply isn't worth it! Now, the commercial furniture dealers... they're the ones who are banking.
Well what about this. The interior designers take control of the word "designer" in much the same way that we architects are still trying to take control of the word "architect". This way Joe Contractor won't still be able to call himself a "design and build" (note: not Design-Build, architects are already working to control that name, right?) company, because ID's would own "design" and "designer".
We can then all, as licensed professionals, come to common ground on the term "interior architect" which is not one I'm quite ready to relinquish yet, but could be persuaded to if the conditions were right.
We still have the whole "software architect" battle to fight, but maybe we could join in forces on it.
Oh, but then there's "graphic designers" - will ID's allow that name to stand?
Forget it. I'm starting a business called "Dr. Feng Shui".
Can we all get along long enough to through the 'decorators' off the bus? anybody willing to stick up for the value of frou-frou residential dilletantes?
I had this great rug. As Vado mentioned before, it really pulled the room together. Then it was micturated upon by a bunch of thugs who thought I was somebody else.
Now this kind of unchecked aggression will not stand, according to my friend Walter. So I went to this 'somebody else' and asked for a new rug. He claimed not to have micturated on my rug, but I managed to get one anyway.
Then it was stolen by a bunch of nihilists with a pet ferret.
So my question is, any recommendations on where I should put my full length mirror?
Am more than willing to let them ride the short bus. They have value, but they need to be restricted to the decorator designation. In L.A. I think they're pretty good about calling themselves decorators. Not as a lower rank, but they consider it high above all. NY too from what I can tell.
As for graphic designers, I do get frustrated when I google 'design' something or rather and 9/10 have to do with graphics when I really want interiors.
tk, I'll have to ride on the roof of the bus because I support my architecture habit with interior decoration. As I've said to anyone who will listen, sadly I make more from spending half an hour selecting and selling one couch than I do spending three days cad'ing wall sections, which is what I'd much prefer to be doing.
mightylittle, hang it above the bed, of course. You don't need Dr. Feng Shui to tell you that!
how do you throw 'decorators' off the bus? You can't tell people that they can't toss pillows and pick foax finishes.
I think interior designers should either be architects with a focus on interiors, or part of a larger team. How can you design just an interior and not be a decorator? Where is the line drawn? Wherever you feel like it?
Now I'm back to - You (mr. architect) do all the messy parts and I'll make it pretty! :)
sharkkitten- well then you didn't search very effectively. If you wanted interiors, you should have use the word 'interior' in your search, not just 'design'. Design is a broad topic encompassing many, many media. Graphic design comes up first because they are one of the better of the professions at promoting themselves.
While we're on that topic, what would happen to industrial designers?
I don't mind the idea of licensing interior designers, esp. when related laws address the concerns of toxic materials, egress, and health & safety regulations. But the furniture moving thing is just silly.
strawbeary...
should podiatrists go to medical school if they're focusing on just the foot? do they need to know how to diagnose an inner ear infection?
interior design schools are making waaaayyyyy too much money. do you really think Art Institute is going to let go of their interior design program and watch all of those student loans go to architecture schools that are already flooded with applicants that they can't even admit those who deserve to get in!
sharkkitten: I don't think i ever met an architect that (to use your words):
"architects who want to pick out pillows --"
have you?
I find that the article was rather funny, but does touch on the subject matter that we all seem have have seen from last year where things got really heated.
My take is this....SharkKitten, if you are as good as you say and have all this knowledge, then why is it so bad to get licensed? (not saying you didn't want to, nor that you are in favor of it either) What is your stance on that issue, personally. Do you think it's best for your profession to be licensed, thus restricting the screwball/wannabes from calling themselves int. designers?
And what is wrong with knowing all those things, structures, mechanical, building codes, etc....if you want to hold a title of interior architect?? I mean if you really want to become that (interior architect) or be recognized as such, then why not have the knowledge that goes into interiors (HVAC, etc.)
I was referring to this section of the article which started the thread: "So in Las Vegas, where almost nothing is illegal, it is illegal -- unless you are licensed, or employed by someone licensed -- to move, in the role of an interior designer, any piece of furniture, such as an armoire, that is more than 69 inches tall"
That's damn silly. So now homeowners can't move their own furniture? What above full-service moving companies?
sharkkitten, I'm not really thinking of it in that way, with the schools.
I think architects are licensed because of their comprehensive role in the design of buildings. Maybe I would be OK with an interior designer being ceritifed if they need to establish themselves as trained professionals (which would be good), but what exactly would they be licensed to do?
Liscensed designers is good. It will help weed out the idiots. (like calculus does for architects)
The real problem with this topic is that it is indicative of a greater problem being the diminishing role of the architect.
I see clients using their own "hired gun" project manager as their advocate, interior designers taking on more repsponsibilities, large institutions leveraging unfair contracts on architects due to the heavy competition in the field.. all as signs that architects are not effectively managing their roles in the field.
I think the focus should be on expanding the architects role and their firms services.
"So in Las Vegas, where almost nothing is illegal, it is illegal -- unless you are licensed, or employed by someone licensed -- to move, in the role of an interior designer, any piece of furniture, such as an armoire, that is more than 69 inches tall"
The key word phrase is, in the role of an interior designer." I think anyone still can move furniture, you just can't design a furniture layout and "move" furniture on a plan, like put a 70" armoire in front of a door for instance.
Are interior designers dangerous?
Sparked by this washingting post column (sorry, you need to register), my office has become a heated battleground over the need of interior designers to become licensed.
Architects, engineers, and landscape architects are licensed by most states to protect the 'health, safety, and welfare' of the public. Interior designers, led by several national organizations, are campaigning to become a licensed and regulated profession too.
(I'm not talking 'bout decorators, but people really engaged in what could be best described as 'interior architecture'.)
Do they legitimately and regularly engage in making HSW decisions in their practice, or face significant liability for these issues?
Are they seeking to creat gender parity (if they are the stereotypical women/gay male designer) with the historically male dominated architecture profession?
Or, are they status seeking, under-educated, paint color/fabric selecting, cubicle layouting para-professionals who have no need to stamp drawings, as the columnist is suggesting?
I didn't read the article, but I have an office full of interior designers who would kick you in the shins for saying that they are dangerous.
i think in the contemporary world, being ugly inside lead to health safety welfare issues.
If you start to think of it in a low-VOC sort of way, you could definitely make an arguement that yes, interior designers (hate 'interior architect', it's bullshit) do deal with health. The materials they choose do have an impact on our well-being. And also, say an interior designer is doing a restaurant renovation which does not deal with anything structural, but DOES involve the kitchen. That definitely deals with public health.
Funny, I just noticed that a couple of the hizzos that ride my bus in the morning have swapped their copies of "Us Weekly" and "In Style Magazine" for Interior Design licensure study guides...
Interestingly, the column was written by George F. Will. I would think he has bigger topics to bugger up than interior design.
Also interestingly, there are 6 pages of comments. Lots and lots of interior designers weighing in, and I have to admit, they make a good argument as to why they should be licensed.
But I had to laugh at this one: one poster commented that being licensed requires fulfilling Continuing Education requirements: last week for me it was boning up on tuckpointing
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Why is that funny? Tuckpointing, whatever that is, is a detail for that profession akin to any aesthetic detailing in ours.
Do you think that boning up on gyp bd/beading details is laughable?
tyvek you beat me to it. tuckpointing is the tooling of the joints btw bricks or stones, also known as just pointing. the tool is called a tuckpointer also. It is important (more exterior than interior) and not easy to do well.
how is that funny?
I think the joke is that when an interior designer talks about "boning up" on something, they're serious about the boning part. OHHHH. They're frisky!
do you know anything about designing for Hospitals and the high level of specifications that are required by law?
If you think architects are the only ones with liability you are just being ignorant of the reality of the business.
Argh, sorry, blame it on the cold medicine: I got tuckpointing confused with tuck-pleating (aka tuck and roll) upholstery.
And the whole sentence just sounded funny to me, again, blame it on the cold medicine. God I wish I could breathe through my nose right now.
And yeah brer that's where the ID's commenting on the article made s strong points: re: flame retardancy of materials and egress in commercial settings.
i
opps.
I was starting to type and hit the wrong key...
City planners are 'certified' but probably under the HSW standard should be licensed. If we could only sue planners for traffic jams, air pollution, or flooded neighborhoods, we'd start living in better cities. Maybe licensing planners could end urban sprawl too...
Anybody know what liability an interior designer has? or can they stamp a set of drawings for a building permit?
can i buy your sofa?
well i just got a 30% discount card for sherwin williams today. woohoo.
OK, they can be licensed, if they take a pay cut! ha ha
lb
you what would look good on that couch????
My yellow trunk
In some states interior designers are licensed, in some they are certified. It all depends on the state legislation. I've worked for two different California certified interior designers and a couple of non-certified interior decorators. The divide really is between the commercial and the residential world. Commercial designers need to be licensed/certified because they need to get drawings stamped. A bulk of their work is tenant improvements, which, as you know involves items such as partitions and ceilings that must be approved by the city. I've never worked for a non-certified commercial designer, so I don't know how to get projects through if you don't have a stamp. Residential designers don't typically need to stamp anything. They work with contractors and architects who do a lot of the dirty work for them.
The process of taking the NCIDQ exam isn't nearly as difficult at the architectural licensing exam, but we still have quite a bit of a challenge. It includes codes, professional practices and a practicum. A two day test that isn't guaranteed to give you a passing grade. You can't even take the test until you have two year's experience with a certified or licensed professional. Once you pass the test you have the opportunity to become licensed/certified depending on the laws in your state.
Interior designers -- commercial interiors designer who have to call themselves 'interior architects' because they don't want to be confused with decorators -- want to be licensed so that they have the ability to get their work through the red tape of building permit legislation. They do carry liability in the design of a tenant improvement, just as an architect would. Unfortunately the AIA is lobbying heavily to prevent interior designers from even being able to stamp TI projects, because they don't like the fact that we're taking away their work. Trust me, though, there's plenty of TI work to go around.
It's not a gender thing unless you want it to be one.
that rug really pulled the room together...
To answer the question: Are Interior Designers Dangerous?
To architects who do commercial interiors -- yes.
To architects who want to sell furniture to their clients -- yes.
To architects who want to pick out pillows -- yes.
To architects who design structural buildings -- no.
After reading many of the comments left by the article's readers, I wonder why interior designers don't just become architects who focus on interiors, that's really what they want, then we can forget all of this.
It's unnecessary. I don't need or want to know structural, mechanical, plumbing, etc. I have a fundamental understanding from design school and my experiences in the field, but I could never specify the right bolts or the right beams. I want to focus on the interiors. I know a whole hell of a lot about commercial finishes, interior codes, and the like. That's all I need. My interior design status and training is completely appropriate for my work.
I second strawbeary, they wanna be licesnsed like us, they get paid like us. I'm sorry but the fact that Int. des. make more than architects sickens me to the core, and frankly i blame us architects. Its high time we got our shit together. IT'S REVOLUTION TIME!
It's not our fault that you make less. TI designers aren't swimming in dough, I'll tell you that. Designers who make big bucks are selling furniture and accessories. If I wanted to go fru-fru and be a 'decorator' I would probably make way more than in commercial work. Commercial designers who sell commercial furniture also make out pretty decently, but the whole systems furniture thing simply isn't worth it! Now, the commercial furniture dealers... they're the ones who are banking.
I ain't blamin you guys, I'm blaming us? Make as much money as you can!
woops, i meant "I blaming us!"
Well what about this. The interior designers take control of the word "designer" in much the same way that we architects are still trying to take control of the word "architect". This way Joe Contractor won't still be able to call himself a "design and build" (note: not Design-Build, architects are already working to control that name, right?) company, because ID's would own "design" and "designer".
We can then all, as licensed professionals, come to common ground on the term "interior architect" which is not one I'm quite ready to relinquish yet, but could be persuaded to if the conditions were right.
We still have the whole "software architect" battle to fight, but maybe we could join in forces on it.
Oh, but then there's "graphic designers" - will ID's allow that name to stand?
Forget it. I'm starting a business called "Dr. Feng Shui".
Can we all get along long enough to through the 'decorators' off the bus? anybody willing to stick up for the value of frou-frou residential dilletantes?
'throw', I meant to use 'throw'...
Dear Dr. Feng Shui...
I had this great rug. As Vado mentioned before, it really pulled the room together. Then it was micturated upon by a bunch of thugs who thought I was somebody else.
Now this kind of unchecked aggression will not stand, according to my friend Walter. So I went to this 'somebody else' and asked for a new rug. He claimed not to have micturated on my rug, but I managed to get one anyway.
Then it was stolen by a bunch of nihilists with a pet ferret.
So my question is, any recommendations on where I should put my full length mirror?
Sincerely,
The Dude
Am more than willing to let them ride the short bus. They have value, but they need to be restricted to the decorator designation. In L.A. I think they're pretty good about calling themselves decorators. Not as a lower rank, but they consider it high above all. NY too from what I can tell.
As for graphic designers, I do get frustrated when I google 'design' something or rather and 9/10 have to do with graphics when I really want interiors.
tk, I'll have to ride on the roof of the bus because I support my architecture habit with interior decoration. As I've said to anyone who will listen, sadly I make more from spending half an hour selecting and selling one couch than I do spending three days cad'ing wall sections, which is what I'd much prefer to be doing.
mightylittle, hang it above the bed, of course. You don't need Dr. Feng Shui to tell you that!
Unless it's opposite a window, then it will bounce the chi right out of the room!
No, sharkkitten, that would mean there's a window on the floor. I meant above the bed ;-)
ooooohhhhh
you going to provide support details for that?
how do you throw 'decorators' off the bus? You can't tell people that they can't toss pillows and pick foax finishes.
I think interior designers should either be architects with a focus on interiors, or part of a larger team. How can you design just an interior and not be a decorator? Where is the line drawn? Wherever you feel like it?
Now I'm back to - You (mr. architect) do all the messy parts and I'll make it pretty! :)
LOL sharkkitten!
(and yeah I could. But! would those details be allowed in my role as Dr. Feng Shui?)
sharkkitten- well then you didn't search very effectively. If you wanted interiors, you should have use the word 'interior' in your search, not just 'design'. Design is a broad topic encompassing many, many media. Graphic design comes up first because they are one of the better of the professions at promoting themselves.
While we're on that topic, what would happen to industrial designers?
I don't mind the idea of licensing interior designers, esp. when related laws address the concerns of toxic materials, egress, and health & safety regulations. But the furniture moving thing is just silly.
strawbeary...
should podiatrists go to medical school if they're focusing on just the foot? do they need to know how to diagnose an inner ear infection?
interior design schools are making waaaayyyyy too much money. do you really think Art Institute is going to let go of their interior design program and watch all of those student loans go to architecture schools that are already flooded with applicants that they can't even admit those who deserve to get in!
furniture moving thing silly?
space planning is key in the successful flow of an interior
sharkkitten: I don't think i ever met an architect that (to use your words):
"architects who want to pick out pillows --"
have you?
I find that the article was rather funny, but does touch on the subject matter that we all seem have have seen from last year where things got really heated.
My take is this....SharkKitten, if you are as good as you say and have all this knowledge, then why is it so bad to get licensed? (not saying you didn't want to, nor that you are in favor of it either) What is your stance on that issue, personally. Do you think it's best for your profession to be licensed, thus restricting the screwball/wannabes from calling themselves int. designers?
And what is wrong with knowing all those things, structures, mechanical, building codes, etc....if you want to hold a title of interior architect?? I mean if you really want to become that (interior architect) or be recognized as such, then why not have the knowledge that goes into interiors (HVAC, etc.)
just wondering
heinrich degelo studied interior design...
wouldn't it be terrible if interior designers here could do half of what he's done?
I was referring to this section of the article which started the thread: "So in Las Vegas, where almost nothing is illegal, it is illegal -- unless you are licensed, or employed by someone licensed -- to move, in the role of an interior designer, any piece of furniture, such as an armoire, that is more than 69 inches tall"
That's damn silly. So now homeowners can't move their own furniture? What above full-service moving companies?
rationalist, dont you know......they too have to be licensed and bonded!
sharkkitten, I'm not really thinking of it in that way, with the schools.
I think architects are licensed because of their comprehensive role in the design of buildings. Maybe I would be OK with an interior designer being ceritifed if they need to establish themselves as trained professionals (which would be good), but what exactly would they be licensed to do?
Liscensed designers is good. It will help weed out the idiots. (like calculus does for architects)
The real problem with this topic is that it is indicative of a greater problem being the diminishing role of the architect.
I see clients using their own "hired gun" project manager as their advocate, interior designers taking on more repsponsibilities, large institutions leveraging unfair contracts on architects due to the heavy competition in the field.. all as signs that architects are not effectively managing their roles in the field.
I think the focus should be on expanding the architects role and their firms services.
Short answer... Yes!
The key word phrase is, in the role of an interior designer." I think anyone still can move furniture, you just can't design a furniture layout and "move" furniture on a plan, like put a 70" armoire in front of a door for instance.
FLW picked out pillows.
damn cold medicine, does that make sense?
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