in my firm sketchup is our primary model building program

then usually rendered with Artlantis i believe its called

ive always enjoyed using sketchup, easy to learn and manipulate

never used revit, mainly because i never had a chance to

whats the problem with them? are you being forced to use them or something? because otherwise, just dont use them and be done with it

what do you mean sketchup is too easy to bother using?

i dont really use it much, i'm just curious

i've heard the same thing about revit too

well, it seems more and more to me that sketchup and revit are perfect compliments.

in one you can easily model rough objects on the fly to explore an infinite amount of options immediately

in the other you can front load your drawings with a ton of information allowing you to generate lots and lots of useful output, elevs, sections, schedules, cutsheets, material quatities, etc.

the problem with both, is that they do not render well internally, and that they do not handle blobby crap well.

but people don't dwell on what they dislike, they just use what they like... are you going to get a group of like-minded peeps together and stage a protest? why the hell do we need to discuss this crap anyways? do you really need to vocalize your animosity towards a piece of software?

i'm sorry i even responded

yeah i never understand why people complain about programs they dont like

no one forces you to use it, so dont use it

its usually people who dont know how to use the program and are too lazy to learn it

ah well

Are you kidding? Architects are the best at complaining. come on....

what im getting at is their use from a design standpoint. i have been involved with classes on both and watched what the students produced, compared to using other mediums.

often times you ARE forced to use them, especially in a office environment. especially Autodesk dominated professional environments...

there are better ways to explore design that are less rigid. their use i think comes from how well tied they are when it comes time to actualy produce something in the real world...
im not a 'blobzombie' nor the most incredible designer but worry about programs that think to much for you.

im concerned with their implementation as well, how students are taught to use programs vs how they get employed in the office.

i dont think sketchup has ever been confused with a program that thinks too much for you, haha

but as for your office, why dont you show them why another program works better for you, and try to get them to let you use it
if you can prove you are more effective with it, that might help

i never thought you should be designing in a program, it seems no matter what program you use, there are always limitations
its better to have the idea first, then explore it further in a modeling program, if thats the process you use

what medium to you prefer to use novelty? i dont model much right now at work, and havent really since i finished school
i used sketchup, autocad and 3dmax primarily before then

i habitually looked at this thread to see if there was any substance....these discussion always get so boring so fast. I understand you want to pick a fight wioth Revit, Sketchup users and blobzombies,..but who cares ....like starting a post called..."I hate Hammers and Screwdrivers!"

f@#$ing hammers

I think this sum's it up for me...

...and yes I am forced to use SketchUp

My hate for it really stems from the marketing for the program. My boss now thinks we can use it to do DD drawing for design build stuff. I could Knock out some detail in half the the time by hand...

Also, I'm always handed a perfectly good sketch and told to translate it into SketchUp. Uhhhh...The damn thing is drawn right here...you did it...it's done...why do i have to do it again?

How do I post images so they don't get cut off? =400? Somewhere?

Sorry, pretty new to this site...

are you asked to draft in sketchup?
i agree, that is kind of ridiculous, if thats what youre saying

First things first, I hate both hammers AND screwdrivers. Secondly, it is completely unfair to compare a hammer to Sketch-Up. I mean really though, the only beneficial thing you can do with sketch-up is come up with some sweet, two-sided cubes, rectangles, or maybe if you spend 8+ hours, a sweet half sphere. At least with a hammer you can hit yourself in the head (or hand) preventing any further activity with it. But really, it is all about what works for you. And yes, in order to find what works for you, one needs to experiment with a bunch of different programs, and find out what works best for what. If you are in the cardboard box business, then Sketch-Up is probably the perfect tool for you. If you are in the out-sourced, premade box business, then Revit (and maybe even Archicad) is probably for you. I think everyone knows that BIM is the future of architecture, but doesnt it also make sense to *know* exactly what you are putting into your building, rather than just clicking and dragging a doorway into your floor plan? I suppose that is fine if you have made your own door according to manufacture's specifications, but simply to drag and drop a door that Revit (or whatever program) gives you because its there promotes a lack of critical thinking necessary to produce quality architecture. For someone learning architectural design, this bypassing of critical thought is something that scares me. We already have enough architects that dont know how buildings are built, and what are we doing? By encouraging students to incorporate programs like Revit into their design process, we are essentially promoting more of this behavior, and we all know where this leads...
Developers...

word to KLACK

and the critical thought and learning shouldnt end when you get in the office. i read in another poste once something like 'and i hate sketchup because of it allows people to get lazy'.

wow i just saw i hit 100 comments
if i would have been paying attention, i would have said something else for it
ah well
what can you do

"are you asked to draft in sketchup?"
My boss thinks people can build off of a few views from SketchUp...

Sure, anyone can build something from any form of drawing/sketch/diagram but it doesn't mean it's going to stand up or be safe or be well detailed (unless you are working with Japanese builders - jk).

...not to mention, what could have taken me a days worth of work sketching by hand, ended up taking 3+ days...

ps - How do I post images so they don't get cut off

firstly u need to find the right task for the right software. we normally use 3-4 software for a design presentation, that's why the interfacing is very important, like transfering the obj file to different programs for modelling/texturing/rendering.

Critical thinking "irrelevant"? How so? Isnt that what architects are paid to do? If we dont critically think about a building, who will?
Especially students, isnt the point of going to school to "learn" how to critically think? Did I miss something?

the software isnt irrelevant either.

the more restrictive a program, the more restrictions there are on creativity and thought.

when programs easily do things that are 'close enough' to what you want, then they make you sloppy.

what is all boils down to in the end is how are you using your tools. are your interns and your sketchup and your revit just conveying information already determined? -if so there fine. use away...

or

are you trying to use these things to explore and think and create?


i guess most places and people are doing the first but talking about doing the second, me included....

this metamech guy seems fullovhimself "for example... I read..." what arrogance. To think that what you use as an output (be it digital: revit, sketchup, rhino, autocad, archicad, or analog whatever) has nothing to do with your thinking process is just pure ignorance.

seems like your complaint isn't with the software which I think is really only a tool, despite that i think its the only software that quickly translates thought to screen/paper quickly (if you don't agree your thoughts aren't that fast so bug off).

Nonetheless seems like your arguments are with your employers...not the software

I don' particularly care for either, but as stated BIM is where the industry is going. Our firm has been exploring with it for a very long time (pretty much since day one)...and we are almost 50% converted. The biggest issues (from what I hear) is file sizes the breaking up of the pieces, which then have to be saved to central...I spent 2 week training, and all I got out of it was the word "families" and a subscription to some Revit web site, which I can't get them to stop sending emails. Our office does primarily interiors, and we have yet to do a full project in Revit.
We have just undergone a round of hardware upgrades...the typical latest dual core chips...4g ram and from what I hear things are better, but that we're still a long time away from being were we are with Acad today.
I'll be able to judge Revit better once we do a full Sd-CD's project on it...
As far as Sketchup goes, I don't use it personally but some of the staff/interns I work with seem to like it. I'll sketch out/describe what I am looking for and they can turn it around very quickly...Massing...etc. and at the end of the day, any tool that can help speed things up is going to look good on the bottom line.

Ones thinking and ideas are just tools like hammers and screwdrivers too. Architects having the calculative power within even revit or sketchup is equivilant to having an entire city of women at desks adding and subtracting on paper one hundred years ago.

This probably refers more to stuff made in maya, 3dmax, but even global illumination rendering would be impossible without the monte carlo algorithms developed during the hydrogen bomb project in the fifties.

The forms of the renaissance are as much determined by perspective as a representational tool that was developed and refined over the span of multiple lifetimes. The colors of impressionism are as much determined by new paintmaking processes as a result of the development of organic chemistry in the nineteenth century as by the painters themselves.

To choose to ignore this as irrelevant is to cede control of the potential for critical thinking, the very agency, the potential for self-determination of ones own work. I personally don't like sketch-up because it seems to make forms that look like they were made by hand, thought through in a sketch. Revit seems like it hasn't been hacked up or cracked yet by architects.

The "just another tool" line of thought goes against, obscures, ignores a mountain of history, and posits the genius in a pretty ignorant and powerless position. I'd rather hack the shit out of the tools I'm using then hope to project my ideas fully formed from my head.

the problem with these threads comes about when someone begins by saying, i hate this program

a lot of times, it is because they have not spent the amount of time necessary to understand how to use it to its strengths

or because they have another prefered program that they like to use

i knew someone in school who had his own copy of archicad and had been using it at his job for a number of years
he would then spend a lot of time telling everyone how great it was and how much autocad sucked, yet he didnt know how to use autocad at all

if you become proficient in a certain program, you can do almost anything

Rice Milk:

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