There is nothing besides Los Angeles and New York. Sorry. Ten years ago you maybe could have gone to Berlin. Not now, sorry.

If you don't have to study, you still can.
Everything besides the universities is quite ok. No beach, no mountains though.

boseman MT
Independence KS
bemidji MN
Springfield MA
Anchorage AK

to name a few antidotes to LA...

I got out just in time it seems

You do realize that only someone from LA would use the phrase "I am so over LA." You may be too entrenched.

You so can commute by bicycle in LA. You o can have a dog in LA. You so can have a healthy lifestyle. You so have a choice in the matter.

Though I can't comment positively on air quality...

Right now LA is saying to you "It's not you. It's me." But what she really means is "It's so you."

does this have anything to do with susan surface's visit???

Sorry to hear LA isn't working out...

I think LA is an amazing city with a diversity of culture, ecology, architecture and people rarely seen in America...

There's a lot of fucked up people hear but I just stay away from them and try to surround myself with only the positive attributes of LA...

I was at this point a couple of months ago. Just take a deep breath and calm down. Silverlake is right on cue with LA. No place is perfect, there is a dark and depressing side to any city. It just comes down to who and where you surround yourself. I believe there are just as many good people as bad out here.

I moved out here from the Midwest, Methlabs outnumber bookstores, the weather get extremely hot and cold, its flat, and conservatism is a form of facism. I was very "over" all of this causing me to move out here. Trust me, its worse in other ways.

Other options: Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Austin, Kansas City, San Francisco.

makndreamshappen...ur lucky you live in LA and not orange county...

Mak, we hear your pain. But before you rent the U-Haul, listen to someone who has lived in the center and on both coasts. There are plenty of friendly people in the mid-sized Midwest cities, but my experience is that few of them are interested in the same things that you are interested in.

i've been living in los angeles, let see 29 years. a lot of you here weren't born yet.
i saw 4-5 mayors, 2-3 economic downturns and expansions, earthquakes, storms, fires, race riots, road rages, drive bys, 60,000 bungalows on a venice walk streets, 200$ 1 bedrooms / nice 250,000 $ homes north of wilshire in santa monica, train and a locomotive maintaining the existing track in west la, much lower density and freeways without bumper to bumper traffic, mc arthur park before-during-after remodels, watts towers before the first fix, lax before the international terminal, i saw sex pistols live, i remember girls and boys still hitchiking at freeway on ramps, my vw 65 fastback, 63 dart, 68 volvo, 73 dart, 68 jeep vagoneer with wood like siding, kharmann ghia convertable but falling apart, fiat 128, large ford station wagon, large cadillac, couple of old bmw's 83 & 87, old benz 64 (?), and few other cars i can't remember but drove, i had a truck, ace gallery around venice circle as a relatively small 1 story building, rarity of any noteworthy new architecture that was modern in style, rise of frank gehry and end of welton and beckett, som moving out of los angeles, post modern style houses taking over, deconstructivist style taking over, ikea/dwell style taking over, lofts going for 25-50 cents per sq ft around traction ave, very few places serving espresso or any strong coffee, cigarette smoking in restaurants, indoor work places and in movie theatre lobbies, there was a los angeles herald, la reader and some great bookstores that sold international newspapers before the internet age, 3 rd street promanade in santa monica didn't exist but it was an empty mall with woolworth, jc penney and criterion coffee shop with 50 cent dishes, pack of cigs for 1.15, gasoline pumping below a dollar, drinking beer while driving was still common among the stupid people, wonder bread was still consumed.

i like los angeles and it is not a superfical place as it is sometimes depicted. it is one of the most interesting modern cities in the world and is in constant change. it is a great place to be an architect, urban designer/planner, artist, writer, film maker, musician. it is possible to live here with very small budget as well as blowing a lot of money in the air. climate is great so are the nature in and around it. almost every language are spoken on its streets and it has a beautiful name...

this city is like an living laboratory and growing museum of architecture and urbanism.
i am critical of it but hollywood culture also makes arts a prime commodity around here because it has to spend some of it's profits in the cultural market for it's own survival like left hand feeding the right.

all in all, there are more chances and possibilities here than many places on earth.

and los angeles has already branded itself long time ago that it won't have any identity crises and waste time and money to re-create itself. it is a very important 20 th century city that urbanists can talk about and it is one of the most original automobile sprawl city on earth if not the first one. it will be one of the most interesting cities to watch in 21 st century because it has to solve a huge access and transportation problem in the face of divindling fossil fuel supply and population growth.

we must evolve with our environment instead of expecting environment to evolve around us, yes it is a two way street but latter is only triggered by the former.

i also think it is shit a many of times but i think that less in last several years. i don't love it but i feel i am an adopted son here. i do miss it when i leave it temporarily for more than a mounth, which i haven't done in last ten years or so.

sorry for long and sometimes nostalgic post.

Detroit

Orhan- LA was not the first auto sprawltopia, it was streetcar suburban like the best of the east coast/midwest. Phoenix, Vegas, Dallas, Houston (to name a few) only had highways and are the OG autocentric freeway driven urban sprawls - LA had the redcars. Those tracks are now covered by the freeways... otherwise I completely agree with your assessment of the city of angeles, and yes it is one of the most interesting/original car cultures. even I only remember 3rd street after the mall, and lofts around traction ave going for 50 cents/foot - i still miss LA.

some random LA threads:

1
2
3
4
5
...

to the original poster:

i really feel your pain. i lived in los angeles on and off for many years and it is really a cultural dump. also, there hasn't been earthquakes in a while...sometimes i think its the earthquakes that bring people together in los angeles, and the lack of constant tremors to commune over make people grow distant and more isolated within themselves.

i have to face la again next year and am thinking about strategies to deal with it:

1. go hiking. find people who like nature too. go for picnics. there are some really nice trails whether towards santa monica or even more inland like around pasadena or in the angeles crest forest.

2. daytrip to other cities like sandiego or rosarita. travel to mexico. avoid vegas. vegas is los angeles on steroids. and you can't learn from it anymore.

2. hang out at places like machine project or the IFF where they have fun and eccentric people who are working in fields other than architecture.

3. also try hanging out or becomingi involved with anywhere that has NOTHING to do with fame, art, architecture or the movie industry. you'd be surprised at how many down to earth people (like east coast transplants or internationals/ exchange students) that are out there.

3. attend or start up casual potluck dinners where people are allowed to bring one or two friends.

4. craigslist for the community section.

3. oh yes and be careful about hating on LA. it pisses of angelenos like nothing other. i think it's beter to be over being 'so over' LA. ive travelled quite a bit, and honestly, nobody out there really has a high opinion of the city except for angelenos themselves. at least you know that it sucks- that's more enlightened and better than not knowing it or denying it, i think.

good luck. maybe we can try these methods and swap sucess/failure stories and start a bloody support group.

Lovely post, Orhan.

I havcen't been to LA in at least 15 years. I am certain it is overwhelmingly different.

But from the times I have been there even down in the freeways and strip malls and smog I always felt like I could feel the majesty of the landscape.

For other cities, Philadelphia is pretty wonderful. As is Portland Oregon.

I mean, just look at the hillsides in the slide show of this house - I can smell the air and hear the ocean and see hundreds of other people all looking for a little bit of enchantment.

But yeah, if you hate it, leave. How long have you beent here? Because I hated Philadelphia for the first three years of ten I lived there, and now long for it.

I can't comment about LA specifically (never been there), but I could have easily composed a similar rant about NYC three years ago. I moved away to what I though were greener pastures, but lately I've been itching to move back to NYC again. Certain cities have a way of getting under your skin.

dear original poster (aka debbie downer):

l.a. is not the scum of the world. trust me.

keep looking, you'll find your niche. if you are 'so over la' and decide to move away, don't think that a new city will have all the right answers right away.

sincerely,

a non-la'er

I had a wonderful weekend in LA...

Friday night went to the Edison (new bar downtown in old power plant) with some friends of mine, including Garpike. Got kicked out for climbing a ladder next to the bar (who puts a ladder in a bar??)

Saturday woke up (slightly hungover). Went to an afternoon party with some of my friends who are stop motion animators (where else in the US do you have these kinds of creative people?)

Saturday night had a BBQ at my place (Susan Surface was the guest of honor)

Sunday went to the Hollywood farmer's market with Susan and some other friends. Walked aroud. Went to get a burrito at Tacos Villa Corona (best burrito in LA, probably also best in US). Drove over to Beverly Hills to look at crazy architecture. Went over to my sisters to watch a movie

Now back home. Windows open, glass of red, and Archinect

I suppose I could be living in my own $150,000 house in a cornfield in somewhere middle America spending my Sunday evenining watching America's Funniest Home Videos

i'm guessing this is 'makindreams.' 3rd year in LA? that was the point of frustration for me. things don't happen for you very fast in LA, long hours, low pay=poor outlook. once you grind through it for another year or so, things get way better.

pay improves, lifestyle improves, and you accept and come to terms with the very bad of LA being offset by the very good of LA, and learn that what is offerered here both geographically, economically, professionally and socially is a rarity that exists very few other places in the world.

in the end, though, it's about what YOU want in life, and what you value most personally, professionally, etc.

best wishes to your future,

cheers.

other ways to deal with L.A.: start excercising outside. bike. run. swim. soccer. volleyball. surf. ski. you'll meet the true people of the city and see it in another light altogether. it'll be therapy. trust me!

also, find some dirt, somehow, somwhere, and plant something. my roomie and i dug out an 8" x 45' strip of dirt alongside our apartment yesterday and planted herbs, veggies, and strawberries. you'll meet the neighborhood kids and gang - and realize that a hose spigot can help you meet neighbors.

And sometimes the neighborhood kids are in a gang.

been here on and off since '91 - left twice for school and came back out of necessity, but also missed it... I grew up in San Diego, and never ever thought I would live in LA, or want to live in LA.
Still very conflicted, not sure if its love/hate or love/ambivalence, but a few things to say - I hate the movie industry, or rather what it does to the people that work in it. I love movies and love having an amazing huge selection to go see and lots of options to see directors/actors/producers talk about their work. Same goes for artists and museums.
The industry gives clients ridiculous expectations and ridculous amounts of money - I'm also very wary of raising children here (have a one year old).
I agree it's hard to have a healthy lifestyle and even with a lot of hiking, gardening and trips down to SD, it's never going to be very green, or peaceful, or easy to get around without a car.
On the other hand, there's nowhere as diverse on the planet, and I don't think anywhere you can find such amazing affordable food - excellent burritos (Villa Corona's at the end of our street!), fantastic cheese (Silverlake cheese shop), homemade tofu & noodles (soy cafe), Taiwanese dumplings (din tai fung) - just the tip of the iceberg!
We've got some really great and interesting friends here, some who grew up in socal, many transplants. We talk about leaving a lot, but so far always come back to the fact that there's so much work here and so much diversity that we just won't be able to find anywhere else.
And most importantly, you rarely feel claustrophobic here. Maybe things have changed because rent is no longer very cheap, but I've always felt like I could leave and come back, and felt the wide open spaces (even if it goes on for miles and miles, there's something about the flatness and sameness of it all that makes it comforting). And whenever I left, I did want to come back (lived in Paris, London and NY in the meantime).
Not to say you shouldn't leave, but maybe you will and you'll come on back.

I kinda agree with Jafidler...

Detroit is the place to be. Well, No, you need to be in a very old boring subburb of detroit and then you will understand what depression is...

The roads will tear your car a new one.
The people are rude and pushy.
The weather Sucks.
There is always traffic, bums, abandoned industry, the broken dreams, the plastic, the 90-pound scanky girls, the scandalous guys.
Honest people, no such thing in that town...
You can feel the Racism as you enter the metro area.

At least you have some sun...and a progressive art/archi scene to entertain you...

good. leave. get out. there are too many people here as it is!

and take all the other haters with you. you are making traffic worse.

a bicycle communte AND a backyard?

you ask too much

I'm a born and raised Los Angeleno...I've trevelled to all the major cities here in the US plus some others, along with cities in Europe and China so its not like i'm one of those narrow minded hollywood natives that has never left the basin..after reading this thread i feel compelled to defend my city...

first off I can't really defend the following (hollywood attitudes, traffic, expensive rent, etc) b/c i agree that they are annoying and but are fixtures of our lifestyle that as of right now we don't seem to have a solution for. however, any major city has it detractions...and with L.A. it's easy to point out so many because it is such an expansive and unique place.

i will say this though, you say that you cant find real friends/people... you're hanging out in the wrong spots and associating with the wrong people...for any given number of people who you would consider 'fake/hollywood' there are just as many if not more people in this huge ass city who are real and down to earth...i'm tired of people complaining about l.a. and its citizens, i know it's trite but the phrase 'nothing good in life comes easily' is true in this sense...good friends/people are NOT easy to find in ANY city, its takes time and an active motivation to go out and meet people via channels that do not include places where people are gtting fucked up late at nite..

...its just plain stupid to say that you can't find good people in one of the most densely populated cities in the world.

As for an active lifestyle, well...we live in one of the most favorable climates of the continental US, we are probably afforded 300 days of weather that permits us to go out and perform any outdoor activity of our choice. We are no more than 3 hrs from anything you could possibly want, ski resorts, beaches, deserts, etc. True, our slopes might not be as fluffy as Whistler's or even Tahoe's but at least we have them. Our beaches are a little dirty, but at least we have them, some cities have nothing more than a pebble laced lakefront if anything at all...

and what about the FOOD....we any cuisine under the sun found in one city,...that's AMAZING....even NY suffers from a lack of good mexican food...

L.A. has everything and anything under the sun, you just have to know where to look. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that moving to another city will solve all your personal problems (i don't know if thats your motivation to move), they will go with you...but if indeed you are sick of this town and don't appreciate what it is that we have to offer then maybe it is time for you to move elsewhere...

if I had to move to another city,...it'd be somewhere in teh Pac Northwest...but not now...As I've grown over the years I have grown to love this megatropolis that we live in...if you can't appreciate it for what it is then you need to move...

p.s. the antithesis of L.A. and all that it means to you would probably be somehwere like ...hmmmmm...dayton, ohio? marinate on that for a few

i was going to post something, but just re-read orhan's post and decided that nothing else can be said on the matter!

why did you chose LA in the first place? I've stayed far away because of the reasons you posted also.

I know several cities where you can afford a house, make great friends, bike to work, etc. There may not be the archi-scene you need. But maybe you can afford to travel more if you live in one of them.

go back to detroit....