Loans, and more loans for undergrad, and then a fellowship picked up grad school. I timed graduation well and consolidated my loans at a interest rate below the inflation rate, I am going to take the full 20 years to pay it off, because the longer it takes, the less school cost.
j
parents. i dont have money. still dont have it tho. im starting to feel the wrath of having no money since i recently finished school (4 days ago to be exact).
I'm with Steven on the big combo pack. When I started undergrad, mommy and daddy could afford it, but by the summer after second year I was working to support most of my living and supply expenses. By fourth year, they cut me off completely, and the only $$$ I got from them was an emergency transfusion after I maxxed out my credit card to pay for my thesis plotting and models. In third year I started getting scholarships to cover bits of tuition, and there were more of those each year, and some grants and loans and stuff thrown in too.
Kristin_kai, I just read ur second comment....ouch....I'm 22 and was about to try to apply for Federal Aid to start Architecture School since my parents can't help me.....please tell me there's another way....my dreams are crashing and burning:(
Harvard or Yale is NOT worth 90K debt if you are an architect. Please take my word for it. Find a decent school that doesn't cost a fortune, get your professional degree, and shoot for licensing. I loved my grad school experience, but the debt makes life very hard after graduation. $350/month repayment may not sound like a lot now, but after you graduate and have car payments, mortgage payments, etc., it hurts (and that's on a 30 year repayment plan at 2% interest; rates have gone up since I locked mine in). Ask yourself what Harvard, Yale, etc. will really do for you, and then decide if it's worth it.
The scholarships were merit-based from the school of architecture. I didn't even apply for financial aid the first two years, because we could afford tuition. But my parents were involved in the whole Silicon Valley crash- both their companies went under, there was a while where I was the only member of my family with a steady job. So USC came through for me like gangbusters in my fifth year (although the state of california screwed me for being in a five-year program), because I wasn't trying to disassociate myself from my parents, I was saying - "look, my parents were helping, but now they can't, and here's why."
i was surprised at how many GSD students just didn't even think about it when they were taking out loans. Most of them are just gonna worry about it later. (i just visited the school and talked to quite a few people about it). The thing you have to remember is that architecture is NOT a money making profession. Taking on $100K in debt is serious and it will take you damn near forever to pay off on an architects salary. Lawyers, doctors and business people can afford it cause they are entering careers that are much more lucrative so you can justify the huge loans.
Oh and kristin_kai and enigmatic mind, I may be wrong but i think there are loop holes in the fafsa if you are applying for grad school as opposed to undergrad.
My first year (pre-arch) was paid for by scholarships and grants and the majority of my college fund. I lived on campus and didn't work.
My second year (aas arch tech) was paid for by scholarships and grants, and the little remaining was covered by the parental units. I was also living at home, landscaping in the summer and collecting unemployment in the winter (thanks Uncle Sam). This trend continued for a few years until I finished my associates. Debt free at that!
Fifth year (bs arch) was paid for by scholarships, grants, and the little remaining was paid for by the rents. I lived in an apartment off campus and bartended on weekends to pay all of my living expenses. I did this for a few years as well, but I had to take out a small stafford loan in each of years 2, 3, and 4. I started working in a firm last summer. I'll finish my bs arch in December and consolidate my 3 relatively small loans. The payment should be very managable. Not bad when you concider I've been in school for 8 1/2 years. Over the years, though, I've added a good sized car payment, a good amount of credit card debt, payments on some appliances, and most recently, payments on an engagement ring.
I sometimes miss the simple life I once lived in my parents basement.
well the 40 year repayment just chops your monthly payments down to a managable size which helps as you are starting out in your career. Obviously when you get more established and make more money you will be able to afford bigger payments, so its not that its necessarily gonna take you 40 years to pay off.
50/50 parents / myself. In state school, low tuition, and was able to work as construction labor for twice what intern architects get paid (closer to 3x from some interns Ive heard) so it wasnt to bad. No loans, which allowed me greater financial freedoms while some of the 6 year degree architect interns i was sitting next to at work were complaining of their debts. Its odd that the big school degree got us into the same job at the same pay. The biggest difference was big schools get you interviews. Otherwise you have to pound your way in or have graduated from the local state U, where chances are most staff attended. In my opinion - not worth it. W've had these threads before about the real value of architectural education.
i haven't been through architecture school (yet) and didn't have to pay for undergrad (military service academy), but i do have a mortgage, so let me try to put some perspective on the future value of money...
my wife and i just refinanced our home for a 40 year fixed loan at 5.85%. the first 10 years are interest only to manage cash flow in the near term...which is essentially what you're doing for 3-5 years on a deferred student loan.
so under these loan conditions, for a home that hypothetically costs $300K, you will end up paying approximately $876K over the life of the loan.
apply that 40 year, 5.85% loan scenario to a $100K school loan and your harvard education actually cost you over $290K.
Yeah there is definitely a problem with name brands in America and its pretty evident in arch school. The name brand education might open a lot of doors and get you some good interviews but after that its completely in your hands. Although the name brand looks pretty good to your clients and there is a lot to be said for that.
A lot of the "name brand" schools have endowments that allow students to get more generous fellowships or scholarships. With the right award package, GSD may not cost much more than out-of-state tuition at State U. (That's it, Gin, keep telling yourself that.) If you're able to able to become a TA or RA, then so much the better.
There's also some affordable public universities that have excellent reputations. UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan, OSU, and Cincinnati all come to mind. If you're able to get in-state tuition at such a place, then you're set.
In my sitation, I'm certainly hoping I get decent financial aid packages from the Ivy League schools I'm applying to. If I don't, I'll have to think long and hard about whether it's worth it to take out massive debt (on top of the $25k in undergrad loans I'm already carrying). One thing that helps my situation if I go that route is that I already have 11+ years experience working in architecture firms, so I'd be going into a higher income bracket after my M.Arch. than the pink-faced interns making peanuts.
Another option I'm playing around with is to work in the UK for a few years after my M.Arch. degree. If exchange rates stay the way they do, I'd be able to make much bigger payments on my loans ($$$) in relation to my income (£££).
federal and private loans (parent is broke). one thing that disqualified me from receiving grants was that i was working alongside architecture school and was making over the income ceiling (22k/year at the time). the income i was making was supporting my rent, materials, loan interests, gas, car, food, and was still able to have an ok life outside of school...had i worked part-time instead, my 100K+ debt would've have been much lower. there were also loans that i could've avoided, for example, my semester in europe was funded primarily with loans with a little help from a few G's saved up. but that was worth the hardship now...
now it feels as if i'm barely making it...part of it is that i'm sacrificing making a better wage to work for a small office (my boss and I) where i can have an all around responsibilty.
i fuckin' pay 1000 bucks a month for my loans! my brother offered to pay part of my monthly payments...but i just couldn't say yes to that. i'm probably being foolish to say no.
I knew that I would have to work for my education, either now or later. So, prior to entering my undergrad I worked 60 hour weeks at a couple of shit hole manufacturing places. 2nd & 3rd shift, every minute of OT I could manage. Started saving. Built up a $20k nest egg to start.
Then I found the cheapest 5 year Barch around that would get me a degree and a job in the shortest possible time. At school I worked part time and in the summers I went back to the dirty manufacturing job.
Finally after my 3rd year I spent a summer studying in Europe. Took a loan for that. Next year got an internship earning more per hour than I ever made at the old union shop.
Graduated with under $10k in loans. Paid it off in a couple years. Those old manufacturing places that put me through college, both out of business. Everyone was laid off, jobs moved overseas, etc.
well from what all the GSD students said Harvard doesn't give out very good financial aid and they definitely won't try and compete with anothers schools offer to you. I guess Harvard has a $22 billion dollar endowment but each college within the university is treated as a separate entity so the arch school doesn't have much. not sure i believe that completely but that is what i was told. either way they have pretty crappy financial aid unless you are dirt poor i guess.
i think she was refering to grants and such. you have to provide parental info and there income greatly effects the free money you could have recieved had you not had to provide their financial info.
my tuition was paid for through a scholarship...
my room/board/architecture supplies were paid by cashing out my pre-paid program (since the scholarship covered tuition) and parental loans...
2 year grad (Master of Architecture)...
paid for everything myself through a combination of federal and private loans... and i was under 24 (at least at the beginning) and had no problem getting loans...
6 years of undergrad (2 for an AA, 4 more for a B.Design in Arch):
75% of tuition covered by scholarship.
i worked for the first 4 years, that covered books, rent, food etc.
fed/priv loans after that.
parents paid cell phone and car insurance.
study abroad (of which I have a bit much) was aided by additional scholarships, loans and a very supportive aunt.
my debt (all college related) is consolidated at 2.75%
5-year Barch at a state school. Scholarships covered the first 3.5 years and loans for the rest. Parents helped out with everything else.
I stayed at home and commuted 70 miles round trip, 5 days a week in a crap car and/or bus. I finished with 20k in debt, but mostly due to Study abroad programs and me accepting more than I needed for living expenses.
Now i'm returning the favor, and helping my two younger sisters while they're starting college. I'm the first college graduate in the entire family on both sides, so I'm trying to set a precedent. Of course they're being much smarter and doing, shorter, more lucrative degrees.
Does anyone here support the ise of getting rid of the ncarb req. for masters or profesional degrees? We seem to be complaining about a problem of education costs that are OUR OWN MAKING.
Did you know for years, even centuries, mankind was able to make buildings without the Craduate school of design? Did you know that in some states you STILL can get licensed with a 4 yr pre-profesional degree?
Im terribly affraid the value society places on architects and our craft is inversely proportional to the education we receive.
exilplatypus - that is a very good point. however the licensing with a 4 year pre-professional degree is only valid in the state in which you recieved it. It is also slowly going away. Colorado just got rid of it, so unless you already started the process before last summer you are shit out of luck. But I totally agree with what you are saying.
i went to gsd late 90's. finished w debt in low 60's. each yr they give you more aid and grants as yr debt increases. my last year was almost free.
i also did a solid amount of work study where i could work at the same time. they look at yr parents' incomes and assets a way to determine how much aid they give you. that is by far the biggest determinant.
whether you say you are independent doesnt mean squat.
i think their aid is pretty good for ivy institution. but it still sucks. if they collected the change in the business school's dean coin jar they would have enough money to send everyone to school for free.
but if i knew i was heading towards 100k+ debt i wouldve gone to berkeley or mit wo a doubt. 100k+ debt is not reasonable if you are on yr own and not want yr future jobs be dictated by yr loan payments. interestingly enough sciarc was by far the most expensive option.
oh i also got some weird 4-5k scholarship per yr bc i was from r.i. but i have a funny feeling it cut into my main scholarships though...so it couldve been a wash
That whole parental contribution thing is a bitch. On paper, it looks like my parents are banking some decent coin, but what the FAFSA form doesn't say is that my parents are also paying the living expenses for my developmentally-disabled brother, and they're still paying 20% of their income toward medical bills from when my dad had cancer in 2001. As much as I hate the supplemental scholarship applications that Yale and Columbia require, at least they provide an opportunity to give the schools a more accurate picture of my parents' financial situation.
yeh i got screwed by fafsa initially. that thing is a joke. it mainly looks at income but nothing from what i remember in way of special expenses that you or yr parents might have. after i enrolled, i needed to put together a more accurate picture of where my parents stood. it took a bit of time but def worth it. the extra scholarship applications are def worth every minute of effort. whats yale's rep w aid? i remember they were considered ok back in the day. i def recall columbia being terrible. no aid unless you were living in a tree. if that
undergrad - combination of merit scholarships and parental help. no loans.
grad - who knows. I'm sure that my mother will pay for my health insurance, but that's it. But i'm on my own (whether it be grants or loans) for everything else.
oh yeah. in undergrad I always had outside employment. My school's structure allowed me to consolidate all my course meetings into 2-3 days per week after my freshman year - I just chose classes on certain days so I'd have 4-5 days off each week. It was usually a combination of unpaid internships at somewhere that looked good on my resume, and retail and freelance design jobs and various odd jobs like modeling and assisting on photo shoots. I hit the jackpot my senior year when I got a night job at a busy bar. That job saved me!
so nambypambics - did you have to be in school fulltime, no outside work, during ur freshman year - just wondering, if it's possible to work part time during ur freshman yr?
Flexibility in the part-time work is key for working during school. I hated checking groceries, but if I pulled a two-dayer or had a printing disaster, I could call in with no problem.
i worked graveyard shift throughout my 5 year undergrad and it was a bitch...and definitely the flexibility was an advantage. i was working in a guard shack for a gated community and getting a shift off was easy. it was great except for the lack of sleep of course. it paid well, had benefits, free coffee and nothing really happens during the 3rd shift...so i was able to bring my laptop and type my papers, do some reading, work on cad, and once i built some study models in that tiny shack. my partner was cool so we'd take turns taking naps.
i would also save my 2 week vacation days for finals which was the best feeling because not only was i getting paid, i was getting more sleep, and it was 2 weeks of straight hanging out with the studiomates...
I wouldn't mind finding a bartending job or something like that during grad school, or at least maybe a work-study gig where I can get paid to chill out in some obscure university office for a few hours each week.
During the first part of undergrad I was juggling my classes with a job at Perkins + Will... The work experience was great and the P+W name on my resume has opened a lot of doors for me since then, but the constant balancing act between work and school eventually led to a major burnout. Looking back, I wish I had left the firm much sooner than I did so I could put all my effort into finishing school. Oh well, 20/20 hindsight and all that.
No parental support.
Lots of grants, lots of loans, and lots of part-time and summer jobs.
On the independent student issue: I think that the federal aid age requirement that you be 24 in order to qualify as independent student (so that your parents' finances are not considered) is only valid for undergraduate degree programs. For purposes of applying to grad school everyone with a Bachelor degree is considered independent, regardless of age.
But schools can still require you to submit your parents' financial info for purposes of awarding the school's own aid - even if you qualify as independent for federal aid.
On the issue of 4-year degrees vs. professional degrees: there are about 20 states that still allow licensing with a 4-year pre-professional degree. There are at least 10 states that allow licensing with just a high-school diploma! But usually this requires a much longer internship (up to 13 years in some states), and it also makes it impossible to get reciprocity with a lot of other states.
I've considered sometimes whether I'd be better off now if I'd taken the 13-year internship route... I would have more experience and more money saved, but I wouldn't have been able to get a lot of the jobs I've had and I'm not sure I would have made it to the end of such a long internship process...
"Loans, and more loans for undergrad, and then a fellowship picked up grad school. I timed graduation well and consolidated my loans at a interest rate below the inflation rate, I am going to take the full 20 years to pay it off, because the longer it takes, the less school cost.
j"
You're the kind of moron who should have been scared out of architecture because of "too much math". The longer it takes to pay off, the MORE school is gonna cost you. Do you even know what an amortization table is?
enigmatic mind - my freshman year undergrad, I was in school fulltime and I had THREE part-time jobs. I just worked late nights and weekends after my classes, and picked up work on afternoons when I had only a 9am class.
I think one p/t job would've been ok but I had a weird circumstance. Definitely don't recommend that to anyone.
The trade-off is that I get a Canadian education (which offers reciprocity with the US, I'm told), but tuition at any of the Canadian universities here does not surpass $5500/yr (cdn funds).
I've done 4 years of undergrad, borrowed $15,000. I may borrow that much again to fund the next four years. $30,000 sounded like a lot of debt until I found out how much you Americans pay for school.
The time limit on paying back loans here is 10 years, but the interest rates are HIGH (something around 7%).
Rogue Agent -- although your enthusiasm is appreciated, you're actually not correct (on average).
if you can get a loan with a lower interest rate than the average rate of inflation (usually estimated at 3%), or at least lower than the rate of a run-of-the-mill money market account (4-5%), you will actually be EARNING money by taking as long as you can to pay back your debt.
in this case your money is better spent either buried in your mattress and following the rate of inflation or even better, invested in the money market (assuming it's earning higher than your debt is costing you).
so if your debt is costing you 2%, but you're earning 4.5% in a money market, where do you think that money is better off?
...that said, the days of being able to borrow significant amounts of money (over $20K) for a significant period of time (20 yrs) at 2% are behind us for now.
I just paid off my undergrad loan a month ago!!!!! (8 years after graduating and $25,000 in loans starting out).
Now I have my grad loan at $18,500-FOR ONE YEAR-and I still have 2.5 years to go-but have started paying off that already.
Working this year to help pay that off-hoping to have it paid fof before I start back to school in the Fall!!
Achitecture School Tuition
How'd you pay for Architecture School? Parents? Aid? or yourself?
in my case, it took all three. loans were paid off after about 11 yrs.
fortunately, i had my daddy dearest pay for undergrad.
i am stuck with grad. it's unfortunate that all the schools i am interested in will place me at least 90k in the hole.
Loans, and more loans for undergrad, and then a fellowship picked up grad school. I timed graduation well and consolidated my loans at a interest rate below the inflation rate, I am going to take the full 20 years to pay it off, because the longer it takes, the less school cost.
j
parents. i dont have money. still dont have it tho. im starting to feel the wrath of having no money since i recently finished school (4 days ago to be exact).
I'm with Steven on the big combo pack. When I started undergrad, mommy and daddy could afford it, but by the summer after second year I was working to support most of my living and supply expenses. By fourth year, they cut me off completely, and the only $$$ I got from them was an emergency transfusion after I maxxed out my credit card to pay for my thesis plotting and models. In third year I started getting scholarships to cover bits of tuition, and there were more of those each year, and some grants and loans and stuff thrown in too.
Kristin_kai, I just read ur second comment....ouch....I'm 22 and was about to try to apply for Federal Aid to start Architecture School since my parents can't help me.....please tell me there's another way....my dreams are crashing and burning:(
Harvard or Yale is NOT worth 90K debt if you are an architect. Please take my word for it. Find a decent school that doesn't cost a fortune, get your professional degree, and shoot for licensing. I loved my grad school experience, but the debt makes life very hard after graduation. $350/month repayment may not sound like a lot now, but after you graduate and have car payments, mortgage payments, etc., it hurts (and that's on a 30 year repayment plan at 2% interest; rates have gone up since I locked mine in). Ask yourself what Harvard, Yale, etc. will really do for you, and then decide if it's worth it.
The scholarships were merit-based from the school of architecture. I didn't even apply for financial aid the first two years, because we could afford tuition. But my parents were involved in the whole Silicon Valley crash- both their companies went under, there was a while where I was the only member of my family with a steady job. So USC came through for me like gangbusters in my fifth year (although the state of california screwed me for being in a five-year program), because I wasn't trying to disassociate myself from my parents, I was saying - "look, my parents were helping, but now they can't, and here's why."
i was surprised at how many GSD students just didn't even think about it when they were taking out loans. Most of them are just gonna worry about it later. (i just visited the school and talked to quite a few people about it). The thing you have to remember is that architecture is NOT a money making profession. Taking on $100K in debt is serious and it will take you damn near forever to pay off on an architects salary. Lawyers, doctors and business people can afford it cause they are entering careers that are much more lucrative so you can justify the huge loans.
Oh and kristin_kai and enigmatic mind, I may be wrong but i think there are loop holes in the fafsa if you are applying for grad school as opposed to undergrad.
My first year (pre-arch) was paid for by scholarships and grants and the majority of my college fund. I lived on campus and didn't work.
My second year (aas arch tech) was paid for by scholarships and grants, and the little remaining was covered by the parental units. I was also living at home, landscaping in the summer and collecting unemployment in the winter (thanks Uncle Sam). This trend continued for a few years until I finished my associates. Debt free at that!
Fifth year (bs arch) was paid for by scholarships, grants, and the little remaining was paid for by the rents. I lived in an apartment off campus and bartended on weekends to pay all of my living expenses. I did this for a few years as well, but I had to take out a small stafford loan in each of years 2, 3, and 4. I started working in a firm last summer. I'll finish my bs arch in December and consolidate my 3 relatively small loans. The payment should be very managable. Not bad when you concider I've been in school for 8 1/2 years. Over the years, though, I've added a good sized car payment, a good amount of credit card debt, payments on some appliances, and most recently, payments on an engagement ring.
I sometimes miss the simple life I once lived in my parents basement.
40 YEAR REPAYMENT!!!!!!!!!! I can't even follow this thread anymore; I'll get too worked up. Good luck.
well the 40 year repayment just chops your monthly payments down to a managable size which helps as you are starting out in your career. Obviously when you get more established and make more money you will be able to afford bigger payments, so its not that its necessarily gonna take you 40 years to pay off.
50/50 parents / myself. In state school, low tuition, and was able to work as construction labor for twice what intern architects get paid (closer to 3x from some interns Ive heard) so it wasnt to bad. No loans, which allowed me greater financial freedoms while some of the 6 year degree architect interns i was sitting next to at work were complaining of their debts. Its odd that the big school degree got us into the same job at the same pay. The biggest difference was big schools get you interviews. Otherwise you have to pound your way in or have graduated from the local state U, where chances are most staff attended. In my opinion - not worth it. W've had these threads before about the real value of architectural education.
I should add - the whole thing aint worth a dam if you dont get that license. Thats where the butter is.
i haven't been through architecture school (yet) and didn't have to pay for undergrad (military service academy), but i do have a mortgage, so let me try to put some perspective on the future value of money...
my wife and i just refinanced our home for a 40 year fixed loan at 5.85%. the first 10 years are interest only to manage cash flow in the near term...which is essentially what you're doing for 3-5 years on a deferred student loan.
so under these loan conditions, for a home that hypothetically costs $300K, you will end up paying approximately $876K over the life of the loan.
apply that 40 year, 5.85% loan scenario to a $100K school loan and your harvard education actually cost you over $290K.
my own pocket.
Yeah there is definitely a problem with name brands in America and its pretty evident in arch school. The name brand education might open a lot of doors and get you some good interviews but after that its completely in your hands. Although the name brand looks pretty good to your clients and there is a lot to be said for that.
A lot of the "name brand" schools have endowments that allow students to get more generous fellowships or scholarships. With the right award package, GSD may not cost much more than out-of-state tuition at State U. (That's it, Gin, keep telling yourself that.) If you're able to able to become a TA or RA, then so much the better.
There's also some affordable public universities that have excellent reputations. UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan, OSU, and Cincinnati all come to mind. If you're able to get in-state tuition at such a place, then you're set.
In my sitation, I'm certainly hoping I get decent financial aid packages from the Ivy League schools I'm applying to. If I don't, I'll have to think long and hard about whether it's worth it to take out massive debt (on top of the $25k in undergrad loans I'm already carrying). One thing that helps my situation if I go that route is that I already have 11+ years experience working in architecture firms, so I'd be going into a higher income bracket after my M.Arch. than the pink-faced interns making peanuts.
Another option I'm playing around with is to work in the UK for a few years after my M.Arch. degree. If exchange rates stay the way they do, I'd be able to make much bigger payments on my loans ($$$) in relation to my income (£££).
federal and private loans (parent is broke). one thing that disqualified me from receiving grants was that i was working alongside architecture school and was making over the income ceiling (22k/year at the time). the income i was making was supporting my rent, materials, loan interests, gas, car, food, and was still able to have an ok life outside of school...had i worked part-time instead, my 100K+ debt would've have been much lower. there were also loans that i could've avoided, for example, my semester in europe was funded primarily with loans with a little help from a few G's saved up. but that was worth the hardship now...
now it feels as if i'm barely making it...part of it is that i'm sacrificing making a better wage to work for a small office (my boss and I) where i can have an all around responsibilty.
i fuckin' pay 1000 bucks a month for my loans! my brother offered to pay part of my monthly payments...but i just couldn't say yes to that. i'm probably being foolish to say no.
I knew that I would have to work for my education, either now or later. So, prior to entering my undergrad I worked 60 hour weeks at a couple of shit hole manufacturing places. 2nd & 3rd shift, every minute of OT I could manage. Started saving. Built up a $20k nest egg to start.
Then I found the cheapest 5 year Barch around that would get me a degree and a job in the shortest possible time. At school I worked part time and in the summers I went back to the dirty manufacturing job.
Finally after my 3rd year I spent a summer studying in Europe. Took a loan for that. Next year got an internship earning more per hour than I ever made at the old union shop.
Graduated with under $10k in loans. Paid it off in a couple years. Those old manufacturing places that put me through college, both out of business. Everyone was laid off, jobs moved overseas, etc.
well from what all the GSD students said Harvard doesn't give out very good financial aid and they definitely won't try and compete with anothers schools offer to you. I guess Harvard has a $22 billion dollar endowment but each college within the university is treated as a separate entity so the arch school doesn't have much. not sure i believe that completely but that is what i was told. either way they have pretty crappy financial aid unless you are dirt poor i guess.
Well, I won't know for sure until I get an award letter. At the very least, it's certainly worth applying for.
i think she was refering to grants and such. you have to provide parental info and there income greatly effects the free money you could have recieved had you not had to provide their financial info.
four year undergrad (Bachelor of Design)...
my tuition was paid for through a scholarship...
my room/board/architecture supplies were paid by cashing out my pre-paid program (since the scholarship covered tuition) and parental loans...
2 year grad (Master of Architecture)...
paid for everything myself through a combination of federal and private loans... and i was under 24 (at least at the beginning) and had no problem getting loans...
6 years of undergrad (2 for an AA, 4 more for a B.Design in Arch):
75% of tuition covered by scholarship.
i worked for the first 4 years, that covered books, rent, food etc.
fed/priv loans after that.
parents paid cell phone and car insurance.
study abroad (of which I have a bit much) was aided by additional scholarships, loans and a very supportive aunt.
my debt (all college related) is consolidated at 2.75%
grad school still to come...
cpnorris "either way they have pretty crappy financial aid unless you are dirt poor i guess."
What do expect? The ultra wealthy love the dirt poor.
5-year Barch at a state school. Scholarships covered the first 3.5 years and loans for the rest. Parents helped out with everything else.
I stayed at home and commuted 70 miles round trip, 5 days a week in a crap car and/or bus. I finished with 20k in debt, but mostly due to Study abroad programs and me accepting more than I needed for living expenses.
Now i'm returning the favor, and helping my two younger sisters while they're starting college. I'm the first college graduate in the entire family on both sides, so I'm trying to set a precedent. Of course they're being much smarter and doing, shorter, more lucrative degrees.
Also worked part-time at grocery store for the whole 4 years until I got my arch job.
Does anyone here support the ise of getting rid of the ncarb req. for masters or profesional degrees? We seem to be complaining about a problem of education costs that are OUR OWN MAKING.
Did you know for years, even centuries, mankind was able to make buildings without the Craduate school of design? Did you know that in some states you STILL can get licensed with a 4 yr pre-profesional degree?
Im terribly affraid the value society places on architects and our craft is inversely proportional to the education we receive.
half scholarship cause i was a nerd in high school...
i ended up paying 35,000 for undergrad on a 80,000 tuition ...still have abut 18g left... hopefully i'll be out and can focus on the company more
exilplatypus - that is a very good point. however the licensing with a 4 year pre-professional degree is only valid in the state in which you recieved it. It is also slowly going away. Colorado just got rid of it, so unless you already started the process before last summer you are shit out of luck. But I totally agree with what you are saying.
i'm good with a 5 year professional degree......
i went to gsd late 90's. finished w debt in low 60's. each yr they give you more aid and grants as yr debt increases. my last year was almost free.
i also did a solid amount of work study where i could work at the same time. they look at yr parents' incomes and assets a way to determine how much aid they give you. that is by far the biggest determinant.
whether you say you are independent doesnt mean squat.
i think their aid is pretty good for ivy institution. but it still sucks. if they collected the change in the business school's dean coin jar they would have enough money to send everyone to school for free.
but if i knew i was heading towards 100k+ debt i wouldve gone to berkeley or mit wo a doubt. 100k+ debt is not reasonable if you are on yr own and not want yr future jobs be dictated by yr loan payments. interestingly enough sciarc was by far the most expensive option.
oh i also got some weird 4-5k scholarship per yr bc i was from r.i. but i have a funny feeling it cut into my main scholarships though...so it couldve been a wash
That whole parental contribution thing is a bitch. On paper, it looks like my parents are banking some decent coin, but what the FAFSA form doesn't say is that my parents are also paying the living expenses for my developmentally-disabled brother, and they're still paying 20% of their income toward medical bills from when my dad had cancer in 2001. As much as I hate the supplemental scholarship applications that Yale and Columbia require, at least they provide an opportunity to give the schools a more accurate picture of my parents' financial situation.
yeh i got screwed by fafsa initially. that thing is a joke. it mainly looks at income but nothing from what i remember in way of special expenses that you or yr parents might have. after i enrolled, i needed to put together a more accurate picture of where my parents stood. it took a bit of time but def worth it. the extra scholarship applications are def worth every minute of effort. whats yale's rep w aid? i remember they were considered ok back in the day. i def recall columbia being terrible. no aid unless you were living in a tree. if that
undergrad - combination of merit scholarships and parental help. no loans.
grad - who knows. I'm sure that my mother will pay for my health insurance, but that's it. But i'm on my own (whether it be grants or loans) for everything else.
oh yeah. in undergrad I always had outside employment. My school's structure allowed me to consolidate all my course meetings into 2-3 days per week after my freshman year - I just chose classes on certain days so I'd have 4-5 days off each week. It was usually a combination of unpaid internships at somewhere that looked good on my resume, and retail and freelance design jobs and various odd jobs like modeling and assisting on photo shoots. I hit the jackpot my senior year when I got a night job at a busy bar. That job saved me!
so nambypambics - did you have to be in school fulltime, no outside work, during ur freshman year - just wondering, if it's possible to work part time during ur freshman yr?
5-year b.arch, state school, no loans, merit-based scholarships and summer jobs with a little help from mom and dad
Flexibility in the part-time work is key for working during school. I hated checking groceries, but if I pulled a two-dayer or had a printing disaster, I could call in with no problem.
i worked graveyard shift throughout my 5 year undergrad and it was a bitch...and definitely the flexibility was an advantage. i was working in a guard shack for a gated community and getting a shift off was easy. it was great except for the lack of sleep of course. it paid well, had benefits, free coffee and nothing really happens during the 3rd shift...so i was able to bring my laptop and type my papers, do some reading, work on cad, and once i built some study models in that tiny shack. my partner was cool so we'd take turns taking naps.
i would also save my 2 week vacation days for finals which was the best feeling because not only was i getting paid, i was getting more sleep, and it was 2 weeks of straight hanging out with the studiomates...
I wouldn't mind finding a bartending job or something like that during grad school, or at least maybe a work-study gig where I can get paid to chill out in some obscure university office for a few hours each week.
During the first part of undergrad I was juggling my classes with a job at Perkins + Will... The work experience was great and the P+W name on my resume has opened a lot of doors for me since then, but the constant balancing act between work and school eventually led to a major burnout. Looking back, I wish I had left the firm much sooner than I did so I could put all my effort into finishing school. Oh well, 20/20 hindsight and all that.
No parental support.
Lots of grants, lots of loans, and lots of part-time and summer jobs.
On the independent student issue: I think that the federal aid age requirement that you be 24 in order to qualify as independent student (so that your parents' finances are not considered) is only valid for undergraduate degree programs. For purposes of applying to grad school everyone with a Bachelor degree is considered independent, regardless of age.
But schools can still require you to submit your parents' financial info for purposes of awarding the school's own aid - even if you qualify as independent for federal aid.
On the issue of 4-year degrees vs. professional degrees: there are about 20 states that still allow licensing with a 4-year pre-professional degree. There are at least 10 states that allow licensing with just a high-school diploma! But usually this requires a much longer internship (up to 13 years in some states), and it also makes it impossible to get reciprocity with a lot of other states.
I've considered sometimes whether I'd be better off now if I'd taken the 13-year internship route... I would have more experience and more money saved, but I wouldn't have been able to get a lot of the jobs I've had and I'm not sure I would have made it to the end of such a long internship process...
joshcookie said
"Loans, and more loans for undergrad, and then a fellowship picked up grad school. I timed graduation well and consolidated my loans at a interest rate below the inflation rate, I am going to take the full 20 years to pay it off, because the longer it takes, the less school cost.
j"
You're the kind of moron who should have been scared out of architecture because of "too much math". The longer it takes to pay off, the MORE school is gonna cost you. Do you even know what an amortization table is?
enigmatic mind - my freshman year undergrad, I was in school fulltime and I had THREE part-time jobs. I just worked late nights and weekends after my classes, and picked up work on afternoons when I had only a 9am class.
I think one p/t job would've been ok but I had a weird circumstance. Definitely don't recommend that to anyone.
The trade-off is that I get a Canadian education (which offers reciprocity with the US, I'm told), but tuition at any of the Canadian universities here does not surpass $5500/yr (cdn funds).
I've done 4 years of undergrad, borrowed $15,000. I may borrow that much again to fund the next four years. $30,000 sounded like a lot of debt until I found out how much you Americans pay for school.
The time limit on paying back loans here is 10 years, but the interest rates are HIGH (something around 7%).
Rogue Agent -- although your enthusiasm is appreciated, you're actually not correct (on average).
if you can get a loan with a lower interest rate than the average rate of inflation (usually estimated at 3%), or at least lower than the rate of a run-of-the-mill money market account (4-5%), you will actually be EARNING money by taking as long as you can to pay back your debt.
in this case your money is better spent either buried in your mattress and following the rate of inflation or even better, invested in the money market (assuming it's earning higher than your debt is costing you).
so if your debt is costing you 2%, but you're earning 4.5% in a money market, where do you think that money is better off?
...that said, the days of being able to borrow significant amounts of money (over $20K) for a significant period of time (20 yrs) at 2% are behind us for now.
Rogue Agent just got served
I just paid off my undergrad loan a month ago!!!!! (8 years after graduating and $25,000 in loans starting out).
Now I have my grad loan at $18,500-FOR ONE YEAR-and I still have 2.5 years to go-but have started paying off that already.
Working this year to help pay that off-hoping to have it paid fof before I start back to school in the Fall!!
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