This thread was inspired when I found out that many architects keep working well past their retiring age - Gehry (83 yrs), Oscar Niemeyer (100+) and lots more.
Do you all plan to keep working past your retirement age, perhaps until you die?
What are your other goals? start a firm? work under someone? switch professions? retire when times comes like most people?
since I am a Johnny come lately - I intend to work forever - everyone ion my family(all engineers, worked till death) - but architecture doesn't seem like work - I just pulled 2 all nighters and I just turned 60 - I believe that if you set yourself in terms of outlook to work forever, then your health realigns itself and you look for ways to be healthier - no meat, lo caloric consumption, exercise, meditation, 8 hrs/night sleep except for the mandatory all nighters of course - melatonin, and homeopathic HGH. Philip Johnson worked until 99.
the only show stopper - is age discrimination - there no cure for that one - I will have to have my own office in 5 years or less
Gehry (83 yrs), Oscar Niemeyer (100+) and lots more."
This is anectotal at best. All the 50+ year olds that got laid off in the last few years and never returned to the profession would beg to differ.
I was laid off at 55from SOM in 08' and then found work 12 months later - after I thoroughly mastered Revit - since doing my best wasn't good enough, I decided to do what it takes instead.
Yeah, I think... just at about retirement age... i'll have the resources to do the actual work I wanted to do all along.
Jun 19, 12 12:33 pm ·
·
This "retirement age" stuff is really an illusion. A convergence of mineral wealth and political pandering amongst some of the 20th century imperial powers. People in most places and at most times never would have dreamed of quitting work and then being handed a generous monthly allowance for the rest of their lives.
Pity the fool who actually thinks his 401k, IRA and social security check will allow him to play golf in Florida for the rest of his life. That wealth is already being looted.
Frankly, architects should consider themselves fortunate to be able to continue working right up until their death beds.
"but architecture doesn't seem like work - I just pulled 2 all nighters and I just turned 60"
: I ...... um... I think you must be on steroids, or a caffeine drip in an IV? after three years or arch school it is amazing how much all nighters/ the process of waking up and working straight until bed takes its toll on us 20 somethings.
As the economy has worsened, I find the tension between the generations to be rising. Young turks always tend to think those with a few years under their belt are beyond redemption. Nevertheless, in a profession where good jobs are scarce and likely to remain scarce, we encounter an aging group of boomers who -- either from personal choice or economic necessity -- plan to work as long as they are able, if not longer. This undoubtedly will further increase the tensions between the generations.
I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 10 years or so.
As for me, I'm in my early 60s and currently in the process of retiring from my firm. I look forward to spending my time in the coming years on personal interests and activities that my career has precluded. I've planned for (and sacrificed for) this phase of my life for a very long time. I'm glad it's here, and am happy to be turning over my professional responsibilities to those 'young turks' that our firm has been grooming for some time now.
I changed careers to architecture at 54 - I intend to stick it out - The people I have the most trouble with are boomers - "you just don't have much runway in front of you anymore" " who are you trying to kid" I work well with Gen - Y mostly because I am up to speed on Revit, Maya and Rhino.
It will be fun - the recession isn't going away anytime soon
So far, financially or otherwise and my health permitting, I don't have any other option. Besides, my work has been diversified that I don't mind doing any one of them or doing it all. Doing the things you like keeps your body and mind young. It is necessary to be current in today's world. Most of my personal interests have already been integrated into my professional work. I am lucky that way. Architecture is a perfect profession for multi-fronted work.
I like collaborating with all age groups. Younger people, older people, students.., doesn't matter, but it needs to be an open and engaging platform. I find it very unproductive to distinguish skill sets thinking process between age groups and age specific participation. It is much more productive when you take those barriers out.
I love seeing older people who can design houses like this as I love seeing younger people with this.
Younger age people of today, be aware and visualize yourselves 20-30 years from now. If you are still being on Archinect.;.) and discuss current issues with your peers and people half of your age, consider yourself fortunate and well adjusted to life.
I WILL get my architect's license. Then start my own firm one day my goal is to work thru college so when i get my license i can start my firm (hopfully i will have some money saved up) with alot of experience. Development is in for me i want to develop homes (with a gc license If there are any architect/gc's out there tell a story) being the architect/developer/general contractor i can save on construction costs and sell the homes under my firms buisness name to save on taxes (more firms should do this no more layoff's ;)...).
Appraisals are another self study thing that i am trying to learn about( LOCATION...LOCATION....LOCATION..) i have so much motivation im 25 and have a long way to go maybe at the age of 35-36 i can start developing with fixer uppers. My architecture career is my life and can't wait to finish my a.s degree in arch tech so i can get in a arch firm to learn from a professional and also start my actural architect's education. http://valenciacollege.edu/west/engineering/architecture/ this a link to the start of valencia/ucf/uf's arch program
MyDream: you say you can save on construction costs if you're the architect/developer/gc.. truth is you could go bankrupt too. You'll be putting in your own money. Unless you have lots of experience and connections, I don't think its easy to get funding from the banks.
Yes, espeacially if i cant get the houses sold but with the help of a team of professionals: real estate agent, the right apprasier, good subcontactors etc i might be able to build a desirable product for homeowners. If my plan works it coud be a great side job for all architects jon segal is a great example of a arcitect/developer.
(sorry i wrote this once in more detail but computer crashed and i don't want to type it again but here is the plan which i don't really want to tell but maybe i can help the profession that i love defeat bad situations such as the economy with other ways of creating large income...;)...)
Let me start by saying i am completey unexperienced and this is shabby work at best but this is what i found over the internet that i have self studied for a real estate investment plan this is not at all in the least.. my whole plan but just a fraction of what i study in my spare time.
75% of 350k=$262,500 this budget plan i thought of can work with any number 500k,600k etc. i know this is a huge number but my expenses are very low and with the help of a great career , lots of time and gettng started with fixer uppers i can get enough for a down payment for a construction loan 3 or 4 homes and i could be on my own. (credit is a issue, dept toincome ratio etc but this is a slightly detailed version of my "plan".)
All prices may vary from state to state but this is what i found over the internet from people who have paid for varous construction projects to give myself an example of the expenses are associated with building a home thru numbers. i wish i could talk to you in person to show you my notes to see how much reality is in it.
Material and labor included
foundation=$20,000 ( think it was a 1500sq ft house not to sure on size from my notes)
wood light frame construction= $50,000 (all are from diferrent homes)
MEP= very unsure but i have written down expect 30k from some website sources have been forgotten
drywall= 12k
building lot= 36k to 40k
site prep soil testing and septic tank= 5k to 9k
finish work ( i have left from this plan $105,500 but some things could be highr, lower etc)
The home could be sold with the right real estate agent a min of 350k the appraisal could be much higher if done correctly with the help of a real estate on the wants of the target market in the program phase. ( Homeowners).
I had originally typed a very much better version but this is just getting to the meat of my plan. As you can see i have alot of spare time on my hands and i am very interested in development, small scale anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkGUlTTCQE&feature=plcp this is a dusscussion at havard about a investment builder who started out with homes but just like you said i could be just planning, working, and studying just to go backrupt at the age of 35-36.
i am so mad about the first time i typed this >:( stupid laptop
I really don't have too much planned out. I have faith that things will work themselves out. I do think there are certain advantages to working past your retirement age.
"retirement kills".
Perhaps - but, only if you don't plan for it, keep yourself engaged with other people, and find productive ways to spend your time. However, there's no real reason to think 'retirement' is inherently an automatic sentence to an early death. If you want it, go for it.
It seems to me that many architects -- especially during the early parts of their careers -- have this idea that they will both want, and be able, to work as long as they wish.
The reality is that circumstances may conspire against you to make that not possible. Your health can deteriorate; a loved one may suffer a disease - such as Alzheimer's - that requires large amounts of personal care; you may lose your job and not be able to find another; you may just lose interest.
I applaud, and support, those who wish to work long after "normal" retirement age. But, it's not for everybody and it definitely won't be possible for everybody. For that reason, I think it's vital to manage one's finances so you can afford to retire if circumstances unexpectedly require you to do so.
One of the saddest aspects of this most recent recession is the large number of colleagues, friends and acquaintances in their early 60s who thought they would be able to work as long as they wished and felt as though they didn't need to save, and invest, properly for retirement. Too many of those people have now been out of work for several years, have little prospect of finding gainful employment going forward, and have already consumed a substantial portion of what little retirement savings they had put away. Personally, I don't know what will become of those people and it's a sad thing to watch.
As the old saying goes "hope for the best, but plan for the worst". It takes a whole lot of money to support yourself for 20-30 years in retirement -- you can't start too early putting that nest egg together.
I worked for about a dozen offices and consulted for many dozens. Number of architects over 70 years old (who's name is not name of the firm) in all of these offices was 0. Combined. You are just not wanted at that age.
If you want to go for distance, you work for yourself, and even then you might be forced into retirement when your only remaining client of 30 years dies/retires.
Mentioning Gehry and Niemeyer is like saying you should go into acting and become a millionaire just like Brad Pitt.
One reason there have been so many mergers and aquistions as of late is because of aging principals who failed to set themselves up for retirement....it's as close to a golden parachute that might exist in this industry.
My biz plan is...win the lottery, buy some land in the hills, build for myself, ands whoever else wants what I will give them. I'm tired of traffic, tired of corporate bullshit, tired of arrogant developers, tired of deadlines, tired of most humans.
my main concern is health but to be honest, if I'm at that stage where I can't pull myself out of bed to go to work, I'd rather die quick than retire.. Everyone is going to end up dead eventually.. I'd rather die doing something I'm passionate about than just killing time at home or volunteering at an old age home until the day arrives.
MyDream: thanks for the link.. we should talk more. is there a way to send messages on here?
Xenakis: I've been wanting to learn Revit. Did you go take courses on Revit or are self taught? recommend any books? tutorial vids?
self taught - 30 years of 3D modeling and parametric modeling made it easy
do what you like and learn for the rest of your life is the prevention of Alziemers - you don't want to be some drolling dolt at "happy Sunsets" nursing home
I'll probably work til I do, but I do hope that when I hit 60 or 65 I can mostly just teach, and only design when I find the project really interesting, instead of having to hustle constantly no matter how crappy the client and brief are.
accesskb: Im sure there is and if you like the link and would like to see more i have tons of videos like this one (maybe not so much as the man of the hour in the dissscussion). Some of the schools i have are the university of Miami and USC other videos from AIA national,Noma,Jon segal,santiago calatrava,etc. It might make posts more interesting if the video is relavent to the OP.
Remember i'm in a arch and building tech program and graduating soon if your ever in fl and need a draftsman who is contnuing education in architecture or know someone who is im your man :).
I see more and more people nowadays working and working and working and then watching their health decline until they essentially retire & die simultaneously. Many in my circle (mid-30s) have commented on this, and it is changing the way me and my set think about retirement & our lives. I don't want to sacrifice and wait and wait until some mythical retirement age, only to watch that age continue to recede infinitely in front of me as my health gives out and I can no longer actually physically do the things I've waited and waited to be able to do. I'd rather live slightly uncomfortably (no big house, no nice car, etc) during my actual working years and figure out a way to do the things I enjoy while I'm working my career, instead of waiting for a retirement that may never come. For me this means being in control of my own destiny (aka tackling projects on my own) instead of working 60+ hour weeks at a firm in exchange for 10 - literally 10!! - days of vacation a year. Almost everyone I know in my age group dropped out of working for others during this recession - some were laid off and began to rethink their priorities, some learned they could no longer ignore the fact that they were being ground down into the ground during what should be the best years of their lives solely for the profit of the sole props they worked for, and quit - in order to have more freedom to truly live their lives, even at drastically reduced levels of comfort. I know multiple - multiple! - architects in my age group who straight up quit their jobs, in this economy, as they began to see how narrow their future prospects were in the regimented, typical firm experience. They haven't all dropped out of architecture completely, mind you - but they realized they needed more control over their lives.
I think often architects spend their 20s working brutal hours without the time to pause and reflect on what this means for their lives and their futures, and once we all started hitting 30 we all finally started to stop and look around, and realize that the picture of the future is no longer as rosy as it was for the previous generation.
I realize this may sound cynical, but really it's not. It's actually a hopeful and positive story in my eyes. I'm glad to be thinking these things through and figuring out how I can enjoy both my current life AND my future (assuming I have one).
no plans for retiring here. the idea is not appealing,really.
as owner of office i can say i take very few holidays, but at least if i work hard it is for myself and for the people in our office, which softens the blow a bit. What mantaray says sounds more appealing though. Wish i could figure out how to do that too.
maybe you forgot but part of the traditional reason for having kids is that they would be -to some extent- a form of boyancy for the aging parents. they take over the family business, they afford shelter and so on if/when needed. so, make a few babies (or adopt), feed them well, raise them up nicely and love them so they don't run away when they turn 18. unless, of course, you already have the support a a preexisting family (as a sibling or an offspring).
In my view, you are one of the people doing that, will - it seems to me from all your comments that you have 'figured out a way to do things you enjoy while working, instead of waiting for retirement.' What I am trying to avoid is what I've heard folks like my parents saying all my life, which is: "I can't wait until I retire and I can do X". I hear this all the time. Travel, play golf, do volunteer work, buy a boat, all kinds of things people defer until this nebulous retirement age... and in the meanwhile, they get trapped into paying for things like big mortgages, car payments etc., so they have a comfortable life but there are all these things that they long for. Then frequently you find out that these people have waited and waited and when they get to 67 or 69 or 70, and they suddenly realize their age/health prevents them from really doing those things they way they would have liked. That's what I hope to avoid - longing for things that I never end up getting to do in the end.
There are multiple people from my SO's job that had heart attacks within months of retiring, after waiting all that time to start living their life!
I think the key for all of us in this profession, like any highly competitive professions that attract so many idealists: remember the moral of the story in tortoise in the hare. We all have experience (whether personal or bearing witness) to reinforce this philosophy.
I'd like to be able to continue operating a small practice until I kick the bucket, but ultimately - if my services become too obsolete - I'm fine with giving tours and contributing via advocacy for architecture in the local community in whatever capacity I can.
"There are multiple people from my SO's job that had heart attacks within months of retiring, after waiting all that time to start living their life!
two weeks After Philip Johnson retired, he was dead - almost made it to 100
w/o a purpose, the plug gets pulled - U basically get laid off from life - via bad health, a heart attack - my brother in law retired and now he is in a nursing home with 15% heart capacity - I could go on but don't want make anyone's day - there are many ways to become, and stay healthy and keep up with technology to stay useful - retirement is a big scam for retirement oriented industries) they want lemmings and also the replicants want you to retire.
With a purpose in life we are motivated to do what it takes to maintain health and skill proficiency - if we allow circumstance to lead us, then we just drift into long term unemployment and eventually death. "Without a vision, the people will perish"
What I think I find the most interesting is the dichotomy between a) the large number of people on archinect who seem to despise their work, and b) the large number of people on archinect who seem inclined to work as an architect until they die.
@mantaray, i don't know if i can say that yet. there is a lot i would like to do but am not able to because of time pressures. I am looking forward to working just one job at some point.
but the prospect of retirement in general is not something i really understand. i think that is personal though. i like my job and my life and not wanting to retire is more about me than architecture. i am far too lazy to work this hard for a job that i would be happy to retire from...
Jun 26, 12 2:12 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
What are your goals? education? work? profession? do you plan to keep working till you die?
This thread was inspired when I found out that many architects keep working well past their retiring age - Gehry (83 yrs), Oscar Niemeyer (100+) and lots more.
Do you all plan to keep working past your retirement age, perhaps until you die?
What are your other goals? start a firm? work under someone? switch professions? retire when times comes like most people?
what would i do if i retired?!
"until you die?"
don't be silly, i won't.
Goals:
1. Graduate college - done, May 2009
2. Get job - pending :(
3. Maybe go back to grad school one day
4. Maybe get licensed one day. Waiting on #2 first.
"Gehry (83 yrs), Oscar Niemeyer (100+) and lots more."
This is anectotal at best. All the 50+ year olds that got laid off in the last few years and never returned to the profession would beg to differ.
Actually, I plan to still be working after I'm dead.
I just need to find a hungry vampire or zombie, get bitten, then it'll be fifty-hour weeks until kingdom come.
since I am a Johnny come lately - I intend to work forever - everyone ion my family(all engineers, worked till death) - but architecture doesn't seem like work - I just pulled 2 all nighters and I just turned 60 - I believe that if you set yourself in terms of outlook to work forever, then your health realigns itself and you look for ways to be healthier - no meat, lo caloric consumption, exercise, meditation, 8 hrs/night sleep except for the mandatory all nighters of course - melatonin, and homeopathic HGH. Philip Johnson worked until 99.
the only show stopper - is age discrimination - there no cure for that one - I will have to have my own office in 5 years or less
Rusty
Gehry (83 yrs), Oscar Niemeyer (100+) and lots more."
This is anectotal at best. All the 50+ year olds that got laid off in the last few years and never returned to the profession would beg to differ.
I was laid off at 55from SOM in 08' and then found work 12 months later - after I thoroughly mastered Revit - since doing my best wasn't good enough, I decided to do what it takes instead.
Retiring at 60-62.
Then I'll open my own office with my own hours. This is when the fun starts.
Yeah, I think... just at about retirement age... i'll have the resources to do the actual work I wanted to do all along.
This "retirement age" stuff is really an illusion. A convergence of mineral wealth and political pandering amongst some of the 20th century imperial powers. People in most places and at most times never would have dreamed of quitting work and then being handed a generous monthly allowance for the rest of their lives.
Pity the fool who actually thinks his 401k, IRA and social security check will allow him to play golf in Florida for the rest of his life. That wealth is already being looted.
Frankly, architects should consider themselves fortunate to be able to continue working right up until their death beds.
Gray hair FTW, yo!
"but architecture doesn't seem like work - I just pulled 2 all nighters and I just turned 60"
: I ...... um... I think you must be on steroids, or a caffeine drip in an IV? after three years or arch school it is amazing how much all nighters/ the process of waking up and working straight until bed takes its toll on us 20 somethings.
It's expected of me - if I dont' do it, they will find someone who will - I am just a craiglist add away from 6th + Market (skidRow)
As the economy has worsened, I find the tension between the generations to be rising. Young turks always tend to think those with a few years under their belt are beyond redemption. Nevertheless, in a profession where good jobs are scarce and likely to remain scarce, we encounter an aging group of boomers who -- either from personal choice or economic necessity -- plan to work as long as they are able, if not longer. This undoubtedly will further increase the tensions between the generations.
I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next 10 years or so.
As for me, I'm in my early 60s and currently in the process of retiring from my firm. I look forward to spending my time in the coming years on personal interests and activities that my career has precluded. I've planned for (and sacrificed for) this phase of my life for a very long time. I'm glad it's here, and am happy to be turning over my professional responsibilities to those 'young turks' that our firm has been grooming for some time now.
I hope to be out and living on residuals by the time I'm 65 or so.
I changed careers to architecture at 54 - I intend to stick it out - The people I have the most trouble with are boomers - "you just don't have much runway in front of you anymore" " who are you trying to kid" I work well with Gen - Y mostly because I am up to speed on Revit, Maya and Rhino.
It will be fun - the recession isn't going away anytime soon
do you plan to keep working till you die?
So far, financially or otherwise and my health permitting, I don't have any other option. Besides, my work has been diversified that I don't mind doing any one of them or doing it all. Doing the things you like keeps your body and mind young. It is necessary to be current in today's world. Most of my personal interests have already been integrated into my professional work. I am lucky that way. Architecture is a perfect profession for multi-fronted work.
I like collaborating with all age groups. Younger people, older people, students.., doesn't matter, but it needs to be an open and engaging platform. I find it very unproductive to distinguish skill sets thinking process between age groups and age specific participation. It is much more productive when you take those barriers out.
I love seeing older people who can design houses like this as I love seeing younger people with this.
Younger age people of today, be aware and visualize yourselves 20-30 years from now. If you are still being on Archinect.;.) and discuss current issues with your peers and people half of your age, consider yourself fortunate and well adjusted to life.
I WILL get my architect's license. Then start my own firm one day my goal is to work thru college so when i get my license i can start my firm (hopfully i will have some money saved up) with alot of experience. Development is in for me i want to develop homes (with a gc license If there are any architect/gc's out there tell a story) being the architect/developer/general contractor i can save on construction costs and sell the homes under my firms buisness name to save on taxes (more firms should do this no more layoff's ;)...).
Appraisals are another self study thing that i am trying to learn about( LOCATION...LOCATION....LOCATION..) i have so much motivation im 25 and have a long way to go maybe at the age of 35-36 i can start developing with fixer uppers. My architecture career is my life and can't wait to finish my a.s degree in arch tech so i can get in a arch firm to learn from a professional and also start my actural architect's education. http://valenciacollege.edu/west/engineering/architecture/ this a link to the start of valencia/ucf/uf's arch program
i will work until i die. :)
MyDream: you say you can save on construction costs if you're the architect/developer/gc.. truth is you could go bankrupt too. You'll be putting in your own money. Unless you have lots of experience and connections, I don't think its easy to get funding from the banks.
Yes, espeacially if i cant get the houses sold but with the help of a team of professionals: real estate agent, the right apprasier, good subcontactors etc i might be able to build a desirable product for homeowners. If my plan works it coud be a great side job for all architects jon segal is a great example of a arcitect/developer.
(sorry i wrote this once in more detail but computer crashed and i don't want to type it again but here is the plan which i don't really want to tell but maybe i can help the profession that i love defeat bad situations such as the economy with other ways of creating large income...;)...)
Let me start by saying i am completey unexperienced and this is shabby work at best but this is what i found over the internet that i have self studied for a real estate investment plan this is not at all in the least.. my whole plan but just a fraction of what i study in my spare time.
75% of 350k=$262,500 this budget plan i thought of can work with any number 500k,600k etc. i know this is a huge number but my expenses are very low and with the help of a great career , lots of time and gettng started with fixer uppers i can get enough for a down payment for a construction loan 3 or 4 homes and i could be on my own. (credit is a issue, dept toincome ratio etc but this is a slightly detailed version of my "plan".)
All prices may vary from state to state but this is what i found over the internet from people who have paid for varous construction projects to give myself an example of the expenses are associated with building a home thru numbers. i wish i could talk to you in person to show you my notes to see how much reality is in it.
Material and labor included
foundation=$20,000 ( think it was a 1500sq ft house not to sure on size from my notes)
wood light frame construction= $50,000 (all are from diferrent homes)
MEP= very unsure but i have written down expect 30k from some website sources have been forgotten
drywall= 12k
building lot= 36k to 40k
site prep soil testing and septic tank= 5k to 9k
finish work ( i have left from this plan $105,500 but some things could be highr, lower etc)
The home could be sold with the right real estate agent a min of 350k the appraisal could be much higher if done correctly with the help of a real estate on the wants of the target market in the program phase. ( Homeowners).
I had originally typed a very much better version but this is just getting to the meat of my plan. As you can see i have alot of spare time on my hands and i am very interested in development, small scale anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkGUlTTCQE&feature=plcp this is a dusscussion at havard about a investment builder who started out with homes but just like you said i could be just planning, working, and studying just to go backrupt at the age of 35-36.
i am so mad about the first time i typed this >:( stupid laptop
I really don't have too much planned out. I have faith that things will work themselves out. I do think there are certain advantages to working past your retirement age.
you will certainly live longer and better - retirement kills - my 87 year old father is still working writing parametric structural design software.
"retirement kills". Perhaps - but, only if you don't plan for it, keep yourself engaged with other people, and find productive ways to spend your time. However, there's no real reason to think 'retirement' is inherently an automatic sentence to an early death. If you want it, go for it.
I think if I were consistently designing projects of the size and scope of some of the more famous architects I'd probably not really retire either.
seeing your ideas built is like a drug.
It seems to me that many architects -- especially during the early parts of their careers -- have this idea that they will both want, and be able, to work as long as they wish.
The reality is that circumstances may conspire against you to make that not possible. Your health can deteriorate; a loved one may suffer a disease - such as Alzheimer's - that requires large amounts of personal care; you may lose your job and not be able to find another; you may just lose interest.
I applaud, and support, those who wish to work long after "normal" retirement age. But, it's not for everybody and it definitely won't be possible for everybody. For that reason, I think it's vital to manage one's finances so you can afford to retire if circumstances unexpectedly require you to do so.
One of the saddest aspects of this most recent recession is the large number of colleagues, friends and acquaintances in their early 60s who thought they would be able to work as long as they wished and felt as though they didn't need to save, and invest, properly for retirement. Too many of those people have now been out of work for several years, have little prospect of finding gainful employment going forward, and have already consumed a substantial portion of what little retirement savings they had put away. Personally, I don't know what will become of those people and it's a sad thing to watch.
As the old saying goes "hope for the best, but plan for the worst". It takes a whole lot of money to support yourself for 20-30 years in retirement -- you can't start too early putting that nest egg together.
I worked for about a dozen offices and consulted for many dozens. Number of architects over 70 years old (who's name is not name of the firm) in all of these offices was 0. Combined. You are just not wanted at that age.
If you want to go for distance, you work for yourself, and even then you might be forced into retirement when your only remaining client of 30 years dies/retires.
Mentioning Gehry and Niemeyer is like saying you should go into acting and become a millionaire just like Brad Pitt.
Even though I am proficient with BIM, the fact that I got a late start in architecture - what should I do if the most I can expect is another 5 years?
One reason there have been so many mergers and aquistions as of late is because of aging principals who failed to set themselves up for retirement....it's as close to a golden parachute that might exist in this industry.
My biz plan is...win the lottery, buy some land in the hills, build for myself, ands whoever else wants what I will give them. I'm tired of traffic, tired of corporate bullshit, tired of arrogant developers, tired of deadlines, tired of most humans.
Rusty
thanks for the encouragement
interesting comments in here...
my main concern is health but to be honest, if I'm at that stage where I can't pull myself out of bed to go to work, I'd rather die quick than retire.. Everyone is going to end up dead eventually.. I'd rather die doing something I'm passionate about than just killing time at home or volunteering at an old age home until the day arrives.
MyDream: thanks for the link.. we should talk more. is there a way to send messages on here?
Xenakis: I've been wanting to learn Revit. Did you go take courses on Revit or are self taught? recommend any books? tutorial vids?
self taught - 30 years of 3D modeling and parametric modeling made it easy
do what you like and learn for the rest of your life is the prevention of Alziemers - you don't want to be some drolling dolt at "happy Sunsets" nursing home
I'll probably work til I do, but I do hope that when I hit 60 or 65 I can mostly just teach, and only design when I find the project really interesting, instead of having to hustle constantly no matter how crappy the client and brief are.
accesskb: Im sure there is and if you like the link and would like to see more i have tons of videos like this one (maybe not so much as the man of the hour in the dissscussion). Some of the schools i have are the university of Miami and USC other videos from AIA national,Noma,Jon segal,santiago calatrava,etc. It might make posts more interesting if the video is relavent to the OP.
Remember i'm in a arch and building tech program and graduating soon if your ever in fl and need a draftsman who is contnuing education in architecture or know someone who is im your man :).
http://www.daytonastate.edu/CollegeCatalog/ProgramGuide.aspx?cat=CC13&major=2219&major2no=1144. This is a link to the program im in graduating in th spring of 2013, instead of showng my transcripts.
I see more and more people nowadays working and working and working and then watching their health decline until they essentially retire & die simultaneously. Many in my circle (mid-30s) have commented on this, and it is changing the way me and my set think about retirement & our lives. I don't want to sacrifice and wait and wait until some mythical retirement age, only to watch that age continue to recede infinitely in front of me as my health gives out and I can no longer actually physically do the things I've waited and waited to be able to do. I'd rather live slightly uncomfortably (no big house, no nice car, etc) during my actual working years and figure out a way to do the things I enjoy while I'm working my career, instead of waiting for a retirement that may never come. For me this means being in control of my own destiny (aka tackling projects on my own) instead of working 60+ hour weeks at a firm in exchange for 10 - literally 10!! - days of vacation a year. Almost everyone I know in my age group dropped out of working for others during this recession - some were laid off and began to rethink their priorities, some learned they could no longer ignore the fact that they were being ground down into the ground during what should be the best years of their lives solely for the profit of the sole props they worked for, and quit - in order to have more freedom to truly live their lives, even at drastically reduced levels of comfort. I know multiple - multiple! - architects in my age group who straight up quit their jobs, in this economy, as they began to see how narrow their future prospects were in the regimented, typical firm experience. They haven't all dropped out of architecture completely, mind you - but they realized they needed more control over their lives.
I think often architects spend their 20s working brutal hours without the time to pause and reflect on what this means for their lives and their futures, and once we all started hitting 30 we all finally started to stop and look around, and realize that the picture of the future is no longer as rosy as it was for the previous generation.
I realize this may sound cynical, but really it's not. It's actually a hopeful and positive story in my eyes. I'm glad to be thinking these things through and figuring out how I can enjoy both my current life AND my future (assuming I have one).
(redacting accidental double-post)
MyDream : I'd love to see more links to vids or related materials here or email if you can .. we can talk more. accesskb at hotmail.com thanks
Well, in that case my email is [email protected] and these are a couple of videos to drive inspiration to designers everywhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG19aLa76pE&feature=g-user-u ( this guy is amazing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DIcwjTAOFc (don't mind the music if you don't like it)
http://arc.miami.edu/the-school/videos-and-lectures/the-economic-and-ecological-case-for-good-urbanism ( this is one of the best lectures i've ever heard that can help add the value of the architect/developer thru his designs to his state goverment, it was hard to understand for me the first time i heard it but very informal)
no plans for retiring here. the idea is not appealing,really.
as owner of office i can say i take very few holidays, but at least if i work hard it is for myself and for the people in our office, which softens the blow a bit. What mantaray says sounds more appealing though. Wish i could figure out how to do that too.
maybe you forgot but part of the traditional reason for having kids is that they would be -to some extent- a form of boyancy for the aging parents. they take over the family business, they afford shelter and so on if/when needed. so, make a few babies (or adopt), feed them well, raise them up nicely and love them so they don't run away when they turn 18. unless, of course, you already have the support a a preexisting family (as a sibling or an offspring).
In my view, you are one of the people doing that, will - it seems to me from all your comments that you have 'figured out a way to do things you enjoy while working, instead of waiting for retirement.' What I am trying to avoid is what I've heard folks like my parents saying all my life, which is: "I can't wait until I retire and I can do X". I hear this all the time. Travel, play golf, do volunteer work, buy a boat, all kinds of things people defer until this nebulous retirement age... and in the meanwhile, they get trapped into paying for things like big mortgages, car payments etc., so they have a comfortable life but there are all these things that they long for. Then frequently you find out that these people have waited and waited and when they get to 67 or 69 or 70, and they suddenly realize their age/health prevents them from really doing those things they way they would have liked. That's what I hope to avoid - longing for things that I never end up getting to do in the end.
There are multiple people from my SO's job that had heart attacks within months of retiring, after waiting all that time to start living their life!
I think the key for all of us in this profession, like any highly competitive professions that attract so many idealists: remember the moral of the story in tortoise in the hare. We all have experience (whether personal or bearing witness) to reinforce this philosophy.
I'd like to be able to continue operating a small practice until I kick the bucket, but ultimately - if my services become too obsolete - I'm fine with giving tours and contributing via advocacy for architecture in the local community in whatever capacity I can.
"There are multiple people from my SO's job that had heart attacks within months of retiring, after waiting all that time to start living their life!
two weeks After Philip Johnson retired, he was dead - almost made it to 100
w/o a purpose, the plug gets pulled - U basically get laid off from life - via bad health, a heart attack - my brother in law retired and now he is in a nursing home with 15% heart capacity - I could go on but don't want make anyone's day - there are many ways to become, and stay healthy and keep up with technology to stay useful - retirement is a big scam for retirement oriented industries) they want lemmings and also the replicants want you to retire.
Xenakis - in both of the retirement examples you provide, I suspect the retirement was due to health issues, not the other way around.
With a purpose in life we are motivated to do what it takes to maintain health and skill proficiency - if we allow circumstance to lead us, then we just drift into long term unemployment and eventually death. "Without a vision, the people will perish"
One does not need to continue at one's professional career in order to have either "purpose" or "vision"
true
This has been a truly interesting thread.
What I think I find the most interesting is the dichotomy between a) the large number of people on archinect who seem to despise their work, and b) the large number of people on archinect who seem inclined to work as an architect until they die.
How strange.
@mantaray, i don't know if i can say that yet. there is a lot i would like to do but am not able to because of time pressures. I am looking forward to working just one job at some point.
but the prospect of retirement in general is not something i really understand. i think that is personal though. i like my job and my life and not wanting to retire is more about me than architecture. i am far too lazy to work this hard for a job that i would be happy to retire from...
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.