I've made a decision to avoid clients that really just want someone to react to every whim and play catch-up with documents.
I'm dealing with a client right now that's had me go every direction you can imagine with a project, sometimes with the barest of direction, and now that it's being built different than the (incorrect) picture in his mind, I'm wearing it.
Trouble is, I don't recognize this type so easily until it's too late.
Bugger.
This is the time when you start talking about the language in the contract and how these changes will result in additional charges because of the alterations to the scope of work. It makes the client decipher the important needs and wants with the miscellaneous ideas they come up with. Plus it lets you get some extra fees along the way to construction.
Either that or tell them to shove off and let you design, both are viable options.
Freq what you might need to do as well is document the project, particularly the initial perception of the client - something to look back at so you'll stear clear of next time
I know several architects who make their clients literally sign off on each phase of the project to combat this. They send them home with a set of plans and make them sign each sheet, field the calls that result from them actually being forced to look at and try to understand the plans, and hold them to it. Any change of a certain scope after that (the scope depends on what phase they're in) is an add. service.
I don't get it --- you allowed the client to move one grain of dust ???
You now face his unrealistic wishes , that I don't get; You are supposed to put these words in his mouth ,not like you complain ,and realy no wonder you complain stepping the line of the first paragraf ; never allow the client to decide anything, but he ust think he do.
And what's that about armchair architects --- are you suggesting that just start building make you a better armchair architect than others remember ,architecture allway's was about armchairs , how to do it lazy enough and with cleverness so you can allow the arogance, -- but no arogance before you complain how easy he was fooled.
Start using relevant new building methods, that will make any client dizzie enough for you to leave the armchair you maybe yourself rested to long. Don't tell a boatsbuilder about sili clients, rest with that, there are others who suffer more than you.
But now I'm highjacking it back:
rationalist, I've been moving in that direction, but you have to treat each client in a manner that suits them (or your perception of them). This one, I really thought, actually looked at the documents, so I didn't want to be condescending. 'My bad', as they say.
nah, you can do the exact same thing but just say it to them in a different way. For the difficult clients, saying "I need you to really look through these, because after you sign off on these, any changes in the program (or space planning, or whatever depending on what phase you're at) are not in our contract." is perfectly fine, and for clients you think are really paying attention, you do the exact same thing only presenting it like, "I know that you've done a great job with keeping up with the drawings, but this is something that I do as a precaution because not all of my clients are like you. Just make sure that these are what we've agreed on and sign off, and we'll move on to the next phase as outlined in our contract." Just making that transition between phases as a more official thing helps a lot. It can also make a nice break point at which to say that you won't continue work until you get paid, but that's another matter...
Thankfully the only current client I have right now who is doing this is paying me hourly anyway. And thank god for that because I get a call every couple of days saying she's rethought the bathroom and doesn't need a tub after all...she really needs more closet space...maybe we should have a stackable W/D cabinet in the mud room...husband's toilet room really should be bigger, he likes his throne...you get the idea.
Yup, I went hourly on a run of jobs a while back, with mixed results, so I've been leaning back toward fixed fees (though I'm not so good at the militant adherence to contract terms - I just want a good result when it's done).
I knew I could count on you for a comment. Thanks
Now it's time to stop crying in my beer and stick up for myself.
I have a client who we have been working on a project with for 5 years. Have been designing for 4.5 of those years; he has changed his mind a countless. We have done just enough drawings to get his permit (nowhere near a set of CD's).
Just started construction. Client no longer has money for architectural fees. Wants us to stop doing drawings. Construction manager bitches at us because he need drawings to build it...
fun fun fun
Feb 1, 07 4:13 pm ·
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I'm done with armchair architects!
I've made a decision to avoid clients that really just want someone to react to every whim and play catch-up with documents.
I'm dealing with a client right now that's had me go every direction you can imagine with a project, sometimes with the barest of direction, and now that it's being built different than the (incorrect) picture in his mind, I'm wearing it.
Trouble is, I don't recognize this type so easily until it's too late.
Bugger.
This is the time when you start talking about the language in the contract and how these changes will result in additional charges because of the alterations to the scope of work. It makes the client decipher the important needs and wants with the miscellaneous ideas they come up with. Plus it lets you get some extra fees along the way to construction.
Either that or tell them to shove off and let you design, both are viable options.
I'm being much more selective about clients.
And when I really need to take one I'm not so sure about:
document, document, document!
I guess I just needed to vent on my way to becoming jaded.
Freq what you might need to do as well is document the project, particularly the initial perception of the client - something to look back at so you'll stear clear of next time
I know several architects who make their clients literally sign off on each phase of the project to combat this. They send them home with a set of plans and make them sign each sheet, field the calls that result from them actually being forced to look at and try to understand the plans, and hold them to it. Any change of a certain scope after that (the scope depends on what phase they're in) is an add. service.
I don't get it --- you allowed the client to move one grain of dust ???
You now face his unrealistic wishes , that I don't get; You are supposed to put these words in his mouth ,not like you complain ,and realy no wonder you complain stepping the line of the first paragraf ; never allow the client to decide anything, but he ust think he do.
And what's that about armchair architects --- are you suggesting that just start building make you a better armchair architect than others remember ,architecture allway's was about armchairs , how to do it lazy enough and with cleverness so you can allow the arogance, -- but no arogance before you complain how easy he was fooled.
Start using relevant new building methods, that will make any client dizzie enough for you to leave the armchair you maybe yourself rested to long. Don't tell a boatsbuilder about sili clients, rest with that, there are others who suffer more than you.
I surrender this thread to the great boatbuilder
But now I'm highjacking it back:
rationalist, I've been moving in that direction, but you have to treat each client in a manner that suits them (or your perception of them). This one, I really thought, actually looked at the documents, so I didn't want to be condescending. 'My bad', as they say.
nah, you can do the exact same thing but just say it to them in a different way. For the difficult clients, saying "I need you to really look through these, because after you sign off on these, any changes in the program (or space planning, or whatever depending on what phase you're at) are not in our contract." is perfectly fine, and for clients you think are really paying attention, you do the exact same thing only presenting it like, "I know that you've done a great job with keeping up with the drawings, but this is something that I do as a precaution because not all of my clients are like you. Just make sure that these are what we've agreed on and sign off, and we'll move on to the next phase as outlined in our contract." Just making that transition between phases as a more official thing helps a lot. It can also make a nice break point at which to say that you won't continue work until you get paid, but that's another matter...
...until you get paid, but that's another matter...
I'm hearing you on that, too.
'Business sucks, just let me design.'
Thanks.
Thankfully the only current client I have right now who is doing this is paying me hourly anyway. And thank god for that because I get a call every couple of days saying she's rethought the bathroom and doesn't need a tub after all...she really needs more closet space...maybe we should have a stackable W/D cabinet in the mud room...husband's toilet room really should be bigger, he likes his throne...you get the idea.
Yup, I went hourly on a run of jobs a while back, with mixed results, so I've been leaning back toward fixed fees (though I'm not so good at the militant adherence to contract terms - I just want a good result when it's done).
I knew I could count on you for a comment. Thanks
Now it's time to stop crying in my beer and stick up for myself.
I have a client who we have been working on a project with for 5 years. Have been designing for 4.5 of those years; he has changed his mind a countless. We have done just enough drawings to get his permit (nowhere near a set of CD's).
Just started construction. Client no longer has money for architectural fees. Wants us to stop doing drawings. Construction manager bitches at us because he need drawings to build it...
fun fun fun
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