Didn't WTC 7 have a huge tank of diesel fuel in the basement? Something like 10,000 gallons. For generators I would assume. I've heard it was burning at the rate of 75 gallons/second.
I'm no structural engineer but I do know diesel fuel has higher BTU content than kerosene, aka jet fuel. If that was burning it would be burning so hot and fast no fire fighter would attempt putting it out. Hence, pull all the firefighters out and let the thing go.
And in WTC 1&2 you've got a full blown chemical fire going...carpet, plastic, etc. Look around your office and imagine all the shit burning. Not the place I'd want to be. The steel between those floors were relatively light gauge steel trusses, steel decking and 2" concrete topping. All held to the outside vertical structure with welded angles. I can assure you those welded angles were designed to hold the dead load and live load of just one floor. Drop that onto the floor below and the clips there would fail pretty damn quick.
Don't be duped by conspiracy theories out of your political hatred for the administration in the White House. Had 9/11 happend when Clinton was president I have no doubts the conspiracy side would be all right wingers who hate the president. Do you realize how transparent you all are being? Where's the Iraq war supporter who things 9/11 was a conspiracy? While I'm no fan of the president, I'm not dumb enough to believe a conspiracy theory to add fuel to my distaste for him.
Those floors were calculated to to resist dead and live loads somewhere around 80 - 100#/s.ft
The accelerating mass from above would create a force thousands of times greater than the connections of the trusses to wall connection could handle, as it was designed more for lateral forces from the tube twisting
i still think all of your theories don't prove why none of the cores remained standing. did the cores get pulled apart by the floors as
they collapsed? Shouldn't parts of the building have remained?
why was the demolition so complete?
Is it possible that instead of an
actual conspiracy that silverstein preplanned potential demolition of
the buildings if they were attacked again? That parts of the buildings
were prewired with explosives so that the towers wouldn't fall on other
buildings in lower manhattan and instead fall straight down?
and aquapura..i find your contention that every person who wonders
if there wasn't some kind of conspiracy simply hates the president
to be a bit insulting. i couldn't care less who the president was at the
time..but i also know that this regime has been found to do quite a
few underhanded tactics to get its way...far more impeachable offenses
than sleeping with an intern. (i don't think clinton should be excused
either btw.) exposing a cia agent, controlling elections, uisng signing
statements to virtually disobey any law he chooses after he has signed
it into law. From a Boston Globe article, "President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution." I think bush supporters can be as blind as those
against.
kablakistan - it's not amazing how quickly the area of WTC was cleaned up...volunteers for the clean up were being turned away. Debris hauling vehicles were running 24-7. You could smell burning steel for weeks inside and immediately outside Manhattan. I was in Jersey City at the time, right across the river, and 2 hours after the second tower fell (and we realized that Manhattan shut down and phone lines were infinitely tied up) we tried to donate blood - they were turning people away from that, too at the time. too many donors, if you can believe it.
I believe the real discussion of mystery and wonder surrounding WTC is why it became a practical tourist attraction. I moved into Manhattan two months after september 11. friends who come into town still want to go and stare into a hole in the ground. it might just be me and my personality, but I still can't get my head around that - not the fact that tons and tons of material falls straight down from great heights.
Gotan - we don't have a "democratic" government in the USA. We have a representative republic. The founders didn't want a democracy for fear of mob rule. Just a pet peeve of mine when people refer to America as a democracy.
I do think there's plenty of suspucious government activity. The facts around the Kennedy Assasination still have people questioning things 40+ years after. It's only natural the same suspicions play into 9/11 and everything since.
I also agree that President Bush has used the power of the presidency a bit more than some predecessors, but NOT in an unprecedented way. Case in point is Franklin Roosevelt. He used the power of the presidency to slam through New Deal legislation that would've been unthinkable prior the great depression. Just like the Patriot Act would've been unthinkable prior 9/11.
Politicans use events to their advantage, that's no doubt. Nothing is new in politics, that's for sure.
I just meant that it seemed like you'd want to sift the debris for evidence or even bodies. I mean, as the government, wouldn't you want to know everything possible about what happened? If only to understand and perhaps prevent as complete a collapse next time? Or slow it down for the usual "running time"?
And considering how long it takes the government to do a lot of other things, like provide trailers in New Orleans, it is surprising how orderly this was? Or not.
The other thing that struck me when I watched the movie, was how quickly we seem to have forgotten and moved on. We seem to have shifted to worrying about Iraq and general pervasive 'terrorism' pretty quickly. There was so little discussion about September 11, rather it seemed like a one-liner. It was awful --> support your country. Just my perception.
kablakistan.
all of the rubble was sifted through off site. and the cleanup was actually
far more prolonged than any typical demolition would've been.
especially in the early stages. it took almost two years...sept 11th 2001
through may 30th 2002.
aquapura
just for one example..bush has used the power of signing statements
three times as much as all of the other presidents before him
COMBINED. i would say that's unprecedented. this was not an intended
result of signing statements..and bush has used it to give the executive
branch far more power than was ever intended.
Look closer, you can see the teltale puffs of dust/smoke 12 or more floors below the collapse as it proceeds down the building, in both cases.
Aslo, and this is a general comment, the pancake theory tells a story of one floor falling on the next and those on the next and so on. Yet a progressive collapse is not what we saw. We all saw the top 32 floors (?) of tower 2 detatch and fall as one into the building below.
Also Underwriters Laboratories employee involved in the certification of the steel used in the WTC disputed the idea that it would deform in an open fire, before he was fired.
I don't know, we may never know, what it all means but we do know we've been lied to.
if the government wanted to invade someone all they would have had to do was to tell the world that a couple of our destoyers were attacked by (fill in the blank) and then we could pass a resolution allowing us to "defend" any nation that was at risk by outside or internal aggression. but, that would never happen.
pentagon 'explosion' doesnt make any sense. and they wont release videos of it . . .
and they managed hit the only part of the building that was uninhabited . . . some fighter pilots --i mean untrained terrorists
there were no fighters over the pentagon when that plane hit also they had no clearance to shoot any planes down until after the damage had been done...fyi
9/11...loosechange documentary? U believe that?
Didn't WTC 7 have a huge tank of diesel fuel in the basement? Something like 10,000 gallons. For generators I would assume. I've heard it was burning at the rate of 75 gallons/second.
I'm no structural engineer but I do know diesel fuel has higher BTU content than kerosene, aka jet fuel. If that was burning it would be burning so hot and fast no fire fighter would attempt putting it out. Hence, pull all the firefighters out and let the thing go.
And in WTC 1&2 you've got a full blown chemical fire going...carpet, plastic, etc. Look around your office and imagine all the shit burning. Not the place I'd want to be. The steel between those floors were relatively light gauge steel trusses, steel decking and 2" concrete topping. All held to the outside vertical structure with welded angles. I can assure you those welded angles were designed to hold the dead load and live load of just one floor. Drop that onto the floor below and the clips there would fail pretty damn quick.
Don't be duped by conspiracy theories out of your political hatred for the administration in the White House. Had 9/11 happend when Clinton was president I have no doubts the conspiracy side would be all right wingers who hate the president. Do you realize how transparent you all are being? Where's the Iraq war supporter who things 9/11 was a conspiracy? While I'm no fan of the president, I'm not dumb enough to believe a conspiracy theory to add fuel to my distaste for him.
lLETDOWN -
F = M*A
Those floors were calculated to to resist dead and live loads somewhere around 80 - 100#/s.ft
The accelerating mass from above would create a force thousands of times greater than the connections of the trusses to wall connection could handle, as it was designed more for lateral forces from the tube twisting
remember ...bush has to make all he plans happen before his term is up..... so i would be surprised if ww3 will happen.... if so, i'm moving to canada
i still think all of your theories don't prove why none of the cores remained standing. did the cores get pulled apart by the floors as
they collapsed? Shouldn't parts of the building have remained?
why was the demolition so complete?
Is it possible that instead of an
actual conspiracy that silverstein preplanned potential demolition of
the buildings if they were attacked again? That parts of the buildings
were prewired with explosives so that the towers wouldn't fall on other
buildings in lower manhattan and instead fall straight down?
and aquapura..i find your contention that every person who wonders
if there wasn't some kind of conspiracy simply hates the president
to be a bit insulting. i couldn't care less who the president was at the
time..but i also know that this regime has been found to do quite a
few underhanded tactics to get its way...far more impeachable offenses
than sleeping with an intern. (i don't think clinton should be excused
either btw.) exposing a cia agent, controlling elections, uisng signing
statements to virtually disobey any law he chooses after he has signed
it into law. From a Boston Globe article, "President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution." I think bush supporters can be as blind as those
against.
I still believe Iraq has WMDs
Well, *I* still believe Paris Hilton has STDs. So there
dammson you better read THIS!!!
Well,
whatever...conspiracy or not.
this ''democratic'' governement
should answer about
-WTC 7 destruction
-if they shot or not the Flight 93
- and show the real footage about the plane hitting the Pentagon ....
taken by that gas station.
and damn, I remember seeing the first fuzzy footage of Ben Laden...the guy looks like a fat creep.
then when I saw him again (the real one?), I didn't recognized him...
but this thing maybe even he was using a decoy, dunno.
and since the WMD is bullshxxxt BUSH is as responsible of harming the iraqis as was Hussein of gassing the kurds.
remember the FREEDOM Fries?
kablakistan - it's not amazing how quickly the area of WTC was cleaned up...volunteers for the clean up were being turned away. Debris hauling vehicles were running 24-7. You could smell burning steel for weeks inside and immediately outside Manhattan. I was in Jersey City at the time, right across the river, and 2 hours after the second tower fell (and we realized that Manhattan shut down and phone lines were infinitely tied up) we tried to donate blood - they were turning people away from that, too at the time. too many donors, if you can believe it.
evilplatypus is right about, and we already discussed the physics and engineering of this topic.
I believe the real discussion of mystery and wonder surrounding WTC is why it became a practical tourist attraction. I moved into Manhattan two months after september 11. friends who come into town still want to go and stare into a hole in the ground. it might just be me and my personality, but I still can't get my head around that - not the fact that tons and tons of material falls straight down from great heights.
Gotan - we don't have a "democratic" government in the USA. We have a representative republic. The founders didn't want a democracy for fear of mob rule. Just a pet peeve of mine when people refer to America as a democracy.
I do think there's plenty of suspucious government activity. The facts around the Kennedy Assasination still have people questioning things 40+ years after. It's only natural the same suspicions play into 9/11 and everything since.
I also agree that President Bush has used the power of the presidency a bit more than some predecessors, but NOT in an unprecedented way. Case in point is Franklin Roosevelt. He used the power of the presidency to slam through New Deal legislation that would've been unthinkable prior the great depression. Just like the Patriot Act would've been unthinkable prior 9/11.
Politicans use events to their advantage, that's no doubt. Nothing is new in politics, that's for sure.
I just meant that it seemed like you'd want to sift the debris for evidence or even bodies. I mean, as the government, wouldn't you want to know everything possible about what happened? If only to understand and perhaps prevent as complete a collapse next time? Or slow it down for the usual "running time"?
And considering how long it takes the government to do a lot of other things, like provide trailers in New Orleans, it is surprising how orderly this was? Or not.
The other thing that struck me when I watched the movie, was how quickly we seem to have forgotten and moved on. We seem to have shifted to worrying about Iraq and general pervasive 'terrorism' pretty quickly. There was so little discussion about September 11, rather it seemed like a one-liner. It was awful --> support your country. Just my perception.
kablakistan.
all of the rubble was sifted through off site. and the cleanup was actually
far more prolonged than any typical demolition would've been.
especially in the early stages. it took almost two years...sept 11th 2001
through may 30th 2002.
aquapura
just for one example..bush has used the power of signing statements
three times as much as all of the other presidents before him
COMBINED. i would say that's unprecedented. this was not an intended
result of signing statements..and bush has used it to give the executive
branch far more power than was ever intended.
nevermore,
Look closer, you can see the teltale puffs of dust/smoke 12 or more floors below the collapse as it proceeds down the building, in both cases.
Aslo, and this is a general comment, the pancake theory tells a story of one floor falling on the next and those on the next and so on. Yet a progressive collapse is not what we saw. We all saw the top 32 floors (?) of tower 2 detatch and fall as one into the building below.
Also Underwriters Laboratories employee involved in the certification of the steel used in the WTC disputed the idea that it would deform in an open fire, before he was fired.
I don't know, we may never know, what it all means but we do know we've been lied to.
watch this...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248&q=jeff+king
those steel columns in the core were big
if the government wanted to invade someone all they would have had to do was to tell the world that a couple of our destoyers were attacked by (fill in the blank) and then we could pass a resolution allowing us to "defend" any nation that was at risk by outside or internal aggression. but, that would never happen.
pentagon 'explosion' doesnt make any sense. and they wont release videos of it . . .
and they managed hit the only part of the building that was uninhabited . . . some fighter pilots --i mean untrained terrorists
the government's official explanination...freedom haters
there were no fighters over the pentagon when that plane hit also they had no clearance to shoot any planes down until after the damage had been done...fyi
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