you don't. you only think you do. put in your 8 hours and leave. what can they do? they won't fire you when they need you most. if they complain call them out on their bad time management.
so don't. Seriously. If something is not a rush/high priority type thing, don't stay late for it. And if they're ALL rushes, then talk with your manager about it to get that stuff planned for further in advance.
yes 9 am and im the first one in, I am not kidding. Its mostly a design firm, so we rarely do any Construction Admin, but still, i ilke to start early, get here at 8 am sometimes, by the time everybody else gets here im hungry for lunch already
man, if i came in at 9am everyday i'd most likely be fired. even the receptionist has to be here at 8 am. i've been first in the office once and that's because i partied so hard the night before i just didn't go to sleep and came in around 7. one of the partners was in the office about 5 minutes after that. probably got caught at a light. i'd either find a new firm, or carry over whatever you don't finish the day before to the morning. you're the only one there so you can get some good work in before anyone else even logs on. and i hate suits. i wear suits to presentations and award ceremonies and even then i just add a jacket. a tie feels too much like a noose to me.
model shop starts at 7.... leave late sometimes... work on my stuff till 1-2am..then get up and do it over again.............. but i dont have a life so i'm always working on something
"Because, you wear a bussines suit if you are a bussines man, do you think we are bussines men? I dont think so. "
Thus we have the 'architects don't make any money threads'
I arrive at 9, but i work till 6. Traffic is hell and I live in the suburbs of a city with very little public trans. Thus, my very understanding boss cuts me some slack since he knows I'm going to make it up.
no one at my office turns up for work before 10am.
i usually get in between 8.30 and 9am and i'm the one who opens the shop. it's been like that at every office i've worked for since i graduated.
Suits are not for architects, not for certain kinds of architects, eventhough i do admire mies and his sleek black suits, and his cigar, now thats an architect
Wow. For those of you who don't start work until 9:00 0r 10:00am, please send me your firm link so I can submit my resume.
I have always been the first in and the last to leave at the firms I have worked in. I arrive between 7:00-7:30 am and work to... let's say 7:00 or 8:00pm. Then I study (taking the A.R.E). Then I work on learning revitt. Sleep a few hours - do it over.
I have never thought of this business as 9-5. I don't think that's possible.
The other people in our firm show up between 8:00am and 9:30am and leave at 5:30pm. They have kids (that's their excuse). Maybe that's why they don't get promotions. Who knows.
Suits are a cop out. As an architect you have to find your own unique professional style.
I've never understood architects who don't start at 8am either - as said above, our contractors are out there hours before. It would be best if we got into work when they did.
Of course now I have a child and have to work according to school hours: so I'm in the office at 8:45 and out at 4:50. I've never considered having a kid an "excuse" any more than in my pre-child days I considered needing to eat lunch and dinner an "excuse". These are the realities of being human, and while I can push lunch into a sandwich from home eaten with one hand while CADing with the other, a child doesn't quite fit that easily into the workday - and shouldn't.
That said, I typically take a few phone calls between 7 and 8 when the contractors are on site and I'm packing lunch and getting the kid dressed. Then I typically CAD and return emails from 10pm to midnight.
It is easily possible to express one's "own unique professional style" in a suit. Sometimes a suit is the only outfit that is appropriate, and besides, I look like a million bucks in one.
Sorry Liberty, I wasn't trying to pick a fight with the parents out there.
I just get frustrated picking of the work of the ones who can't put the time in that they used to. I understand this completely. Again, I apologize if I sounded inconsiderate. It sounds like you have it dialed in to get your work done.
Understood, newc. And yes, it is frustrating to see four hours of work ahead of you while you watch parents (or slackers) sail out the door at 5pm. Should I ever have an employee(s) myself I hope to be sympathetic to that!
unless you get pay or other compensation for every minute of your 12+ hour days, people like you are precisely the reason why employers feel free to keep underpaying and overworking us. you're giving them 20 hours a week, the equivalent of having another half-time employee, totally free. as long as there are people out there willing to do that employers will never have an incentive to compensate adequately.
"you have to find your own unique professional style"
YEAH...I've been wearing the same 5 combinations for the last year now. So people know that I'm a trendy architect type and not a poor not so trendy architect type, I accessorize. i.e. I mix up my sock selection.
bryan4arch,
I get compensated for every minute i work. One firm i worked at i was salaried, didn't like it. I am hourly here, love it.
I am not trying to ruin it for the rest of you.
I was just describing the hours I work. All firms are different and they compensate differently. If I got a job somewhere else and they didn't pay or compensate for O.T. I probably wouldn't put in the extra time. easier said than done - i guess.
for all those saying we should start working with out contractors..
i guess that means we should start at 6 and quit at 2? and we
should get two breaks during that time as well.
bottom line..you can coordinate with your contractors however
you like..it doesn't have to be same day...i see it differently.
contractors are on site discovering problems..they then contact
me after they've had time to think about it...i spend the rest/part of
the day attempting to correct the problem (usually well past the
time contractors have left for the day) and send them sks or csks
for the next morning.
i feel like 9 is not the norm typically in nyc. and it's very rare that
anyone would show up earlier than that. i also think that people
leave later than typical as well...
i've always heard that too, lars. nyc people tend stagger their hours based on how long it's going to take them to get home at various rush hours. they may start late, but also work late.
it's kinda funny to see people bashing hard workers.
Maybe, just maybe, the employers are paying their staffs so little, because there are so many people out there who only put 8 hours a day and not motivated at all? Maybe if everyone works just a little bit harder, then no one will be forced to stay late? Aren't we professional?: shouldn't we a bit more dedicated than people who flip burger watching clock ticking?
I haven't seen anyone who strictly put 40 per week climbing up the carrer ladder faster than those people who are dedicated and work hard.
for those who work long hours, or for those who refuse to work long hours - how do you address this when changing firms?
is this something that you coordinate when you are interviewing, such as asking what the typical working hours of the firm are?
or, do you keep silent on the matter and just show up and either just leave after 8-9hrs or wait and see what everyone else does...
my firm is typical 8-6, 1/2hr lunch, hourly... very rarely do we "have" to stay much later than that, even when there is a deadline... principles are very understanding of the needs of parents and flexible if you need to leave early / come in late
i've always just asked in the interview what the typical office hours are, how often i might need to put in overtime, and whether overtime is paid or otherwise compensated. don't see any reason not to ask those questions. it's info most people would want to know before starting a job.
yes, of course, standard questions
i guess my question was not worded in the way i was thinking
i have worked in multiple firms that say one thing but expect another, but this ususally changes over time. (starting out one way and gradually expecting more)
however, i have not been in the situation where an interviewer would say that they work 8-6, but you show up on your first week and you are the only one walking out of the office at 6... and are stuck with the internal conflict of leaving while everyone else is still drawing away.
this is more of what i was getting at...
if that makes any sense
i don't see why someone who works 40 hours a week can't be a hard-working dedicated professional. i think i can trace just about every instance where i've been expected to put in overtime back to UNprofessionalism on someone else's part - understaffing of projects by the firm, poor time management by project managers, failure of consultants to meet their deadlines, unrealistic timeframes on the client's part. if letting your colleagues and clients walk all over you makes you feel more dedicated, more power to you, but it never killed anyone to wait an extra 3 or 4 days for their drawings (especially since it seems the ones where the client is in the biggest rush so often end up being the ones that sit on some paper pusher's desk for a month after the "deadline" before even being looked at).
You have a good point, b4a. Also, simply putting OT doesn't make someone more dedicated than others. My point is that sometimes we have to step up to the plate when we need to; sure, we should find the solution if someone has been always asked to stay late to meet the deadline, but as you know, sometime it just happens, and that's the nature of this business... every business.
I hated when I had to stay late to meet the deadline, because someone slacked off (that someone just happened to believe that no one should be force to work ot); but hey, when the next salary review came up, I got promoted and raise, while that person got no promotion and no raise.
Clients always want it ASAP, and we KNOW sometimes they don't even look at it for weeks. However, they are the ones who pay us. If we start delaying the due dates and not meeting their expectations, they will find the ones who will meet their expectations.
I love archinect makes a good point however I always see the young architect / intern slaving away for the company on all hours like I was a few years ago until I realized that it makes little difference to the work done, and creates negative feeling at home and some resentment in the office.
Everything is to be done yesterday on a never ending list of tasks. The key is to remain focused on the priorities and work your contracted hours (key deadlines exempt).
Work smarter not harder.
Also fulcrum we are unionized with RIBA etc. Currently toothless, outdated and an unfortunate necessity if you are to have limited professional credibility.
hey doberman, i see what you mean about the 8 am stuff, you know there will be a time when a good client comes along at that sort of time, so have integrity man! keep it up!
Heya BOT yeah thats sounds really good, I hope one day when i run projects I will encourage a trend of archtiects and contractors to work SMARTER! lets go!
yeah, he popped in for this quick demo. He wanted to practice on my lady but I fought him off bravely. when you see him give him what for from me, I also recommend changing the tight white jeans for something more appropriate. No socks is criminal.
''i don't see why someone who works 40 hours a week can't be a hard-working dedicated professional. i think i can trace just about every instance where i've been expected to put in overtime back to UNprofessionalism on someone else's part - understaffing of projects by the firm, poor time management by project managers, failure of consultants to meet their deadlines, unrealistic timeframes on the client's part.''
This is probably the most valid point made in this thread. Lack of organization and poor managements skills plague our industry, no doubt about that. What's more, we all seem to accept our fate and put up with it...
Feb 1, 07 8:53 am ·
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I am fed up
Why do I have to work late hours becuase of their bad time management?
that's what a pm calls efficiency
you don't. you only think you do. put in your 8 hours and leave. what can they do? they won't fire you when they need you most. if they complain call them out on their bad time management.
work vs. labor
Are you doing the work that you love? Or are you spending your days laboring for a pay check?
Well I like what i do for the most part, but I am here at 9 am, and I am the first one in, what happened to starting early and leaving on time?
I don't mind charreting for presentations or for deadlines, but when its a habit to stay late for being undecisive during the day, i cant stand it.
so don't. Seriously. If something is not a rush/high priority type thing, don't stay late for it. And if they're ALL rushes, then talk with your manager about it to get that stuff planned for further in advance.
since when is 9 a.m. getting in early???
wait, you get there at 9 am AND you're the first one in?
man.
my boss made one employee wait till 6 (office closes at 530) and the employee left at 12:00 last week
that's one bad time management
yes 9 am and im the first one in, I am not kidding. Its mostly a design firm, so we rarely do any Construction Admin, but still, i ilke to start early, get here at 8 am sometimes, by the time everybody else gets here im hungry for lunch already
then, isn't that why you guys stay up late, because everyone starts at noon-ish?
Sounds like the whole office is slack-ass.
I start a 7am and never am 1st in.
I totally agree!!!! Also, why is it "cool" for architects to never wear suits?!?!?! I think we should be more professional as a culture! jeeeeeeeeeze.
man, if i came in at 9am everyday i'd most likely be fired. even the receptionist has to be here at 8 am. i've been first in the office once and that's because i partied so hard the night before i just didn't go to sleep and came in around 7. one of the partners was in the office about 5 minutes after that. probably got caught at a light. i'd either find a new firm, or carry over whatever you don't finish the day before to the morning. you're the only one there so you can get some good work in before anyone else even logs on. and i hate suits. i wear suits to presentations and award ceremonies and even then i just add a jacket. a tie feels too much like a noose to me.
Because, you wear a bussines suit if you are a bussines man, do you think we are bussines men? I dont think so.
Plus you do you really want ink or markers on your suit after a days work?
yellow markers will make our suits glowing
model shop starts at 7.... leave late sometimes... work on my stuff till 1-2am..then get up and do it over again.............. but i dont have a life so i'm always working on something
i think its funny that you think 8 is getting an early start sometimes.
as for the lunch thing, bring in something for breakfast, and that should keep you going till everyone else is ready for lunch.
"Because, you wear a bussines suit if you are a bussines man, do you think we are bussines men? I dont think so. "
Thus we have the 'architects don't make any money threads'
I arrive at 9, but i work till 6. Traffic is hell and I live in the suburbs of a city with very little public trans. Thus, my very understanding boss cuts me some slack since he knows I'm going to make it up.
me too. im going home. it's 5:52 post meridian!
yeah tell me about bad management !
i start work at 8:00
and i dont like to wear suits ... architects dont wear suits
no one at my office turns up for work before 10am.
i usually get in between 8.30 and 9am and i'm the one who opens the shop. it's been like that at every office i've worked for since i graduated.
Suits are not for architects, not for certain kinds of architects, eventhough i do admire mies and his sleek black suits, and his cigar, now thats an architect
Wow. For those of you who don't start work until 9:00 0r 10:00am, please send me your firm link so I can submit my resume.
I have always been the first in and the last to leave at the firms I have worked in. I arrive between 7:00-7:30 am and work to... let's say 7:00 or 8:00pm. Then I study (taking the A.R.E). Then I work on learning revitt. Sleep a few hours - do it over.
I have never thought of this business as 9-5. I don't think that's possible.
The other people in our firm show up between 8:00am and 9:30am and leave at 5:30pm. They have kids (that's their excuse). Maybe that's why they don't get promotions. Who knows.
Suits are a cop out. As an architect you have to find your own unique professional style.
I've never understood architects who don't start at 8am either - as said above, our contractors are out there hours before. It would be best if we got into work when they did.
Of course now I have a child and have to work according to school hours: so I'm in the office at 8:45 and out at 4:50. I've never considered having a kid an "excuse" any more than in my pre-child days I considered needing to eat lunch and dinner an "excuse". These are the realities of being human, and while I can push lunch into a sandwich from home eaten with one hand while CADing with the other, a child doesn't quite fit that easily into the workday - and shouldn't.
That said, I typically take a few phone calls between 7 and 8 when the contractors are on site and I'm packing lunch and getting the kid dressed. Then I typically CAD and return emails from 10pm to midnight.
It is easily possible to express one's "own unique professional style" in a suit. Sometimes a suit is the only outfit that is appropriate, and besides, I look like a million bucks in one.
Sorry Liberty, I wasn't trying to pick a fight with the parents out there.
I just get frustrated picking of the work of the ones who can't put the time in that they used to. I understand this completely. Again, I apologize if I sounded inconsiderate. It sounds like you have it dialed in to get your work done.
Understood, newc. And yes, it is frustrating to see four hours of work ahead of you while you watch parents (or slackers) sail out the door at 5pm. Should I ever have an employee(s) myself I hope to be sympathetic to that!
newc,
unless you get pay or other compensation for every minute of your 12+ hour days, people like you are precisely the reason why employers feel free to keep underpaying and overworking us. you're giving them 20 hours a week, the equivalent of having another half-time employee, totally free. as long as there are people out there willing to do that employers will never have an incentive to compensate adequately.
"you have to find your own unique professional style"
YEAH...I've been wearing the same 5 combinations for the last year now. So people know that I'm a trendy architect type and not a poor not so trendy architect type, I accessorize. i.e. I mix up my sock selection.
bryan4arch,
I get compensated for every minute i work. One firm i worked at i was salaried, didn't like it. I am hourly here, love it.
I am not trying to ruin it for the rest of you.
I was just describing the hours I work. All firms are different and they compensate differently. If I got a job somewhere else and they didn't pay or compensate for O.T. I probably wouldn't put in the extra time. easier said than done - i guess.
Now that's what I'm talkin' bout Thrifty! I'll try the sock thing.
for all those saying we should start working with out contractors..
i guess that means we should start at 6 and quit at 2? and we
should get two breaks during that time as well.
bottom line..you can coordinate with your contractors however
you like..it doesn't have to be same day...i see it differently.
contractors are on site discovering problems..they then contact
me after they've had time to think about it...i spend the rest/part of
the day attempting to correct the problem (usually well past the
time contractors have left for the day) and send them sks or csks
for the next morning.
i feel like 9 is not the norm typically in nyc. and it's very rare that
anyone would show up earlier than that. i also think that people
leave later than typical as well...
i've always heard that too, lars. nyc people tend stagger their hours based on how long it's going to take them to get home at various rush hours. they may start late, but also work late.
it's kinda funny to see people bashing hard workers.
Maybe, just maybe, the employers are paying their staffs so little, because there are so many people out there who only put 8 hours a day and not motivated at all? Maybe if everyone works just a little bit harder, then no one will be forced to stay late? Aren't we professional?: shouldn't we a bit more dedicated than people who flip burger watching clock ticking?
I haven't seen anyone who strictly put 40 per week climbing up the carrer ladder faster than those people who are dedicated and work hard.
for those who work long hours, or for those who refuse to work long hours - how do you address this when changing firms?
is this something that you coordinate when you are interviewing, such as asking what the typical working hours of the firm are?
or, do you keep silent on the matter and just show up and either just leave after 8-9hrs or wait and see what everyone else does...
my firm is typical 8-6, 1/2hr lunch, hourly... very rarely do we "have" to stay much later than that, even when there is a deadline... principles are very understanding of the needs of parents and flexible if you need to leave early / come in late
cln1,
i've always just asked in the interview what the typical office hours are, how often i might need to put in overtime, and whether overtime is paid or otherwise compensated. don't see any reason not to ask those questions. it's info most people would want to know before starting a job.
yes, of course, standard questions
i guess my question was not worded in the way i was thinking
i have worked in multiple firms that say one thing but expect another, but this ususally changes over time. (starting out one way and gradually expecting more)
however, i have not been in the situation where an interviewer would say that they work 8-6, but you show up on your first week and you are the only one walking out of the office at 6... and are stuck with the internal conflict of leaving while everyone else is still drawing away.
this is more of what i was getting at...
if that makes any sense
i don't see why someone who works 40 hours a week can't be a hard-working dedicated professional. i think i can trace just about every instance where i've been expected to put in overtime back to UNprofessionalism on someone else's part - understaffing of projects by the firm, poor time management by project managers, failure of consultants to meet their deadlines, unrealistic timeframes on the client's part. if letting your colleagues and clients walk all over you makes you feel more dedicated, more power to you, but it never killed anyone to wait an extra 3 or 4 days for their drawings (especially since it seems the ones where the client is in the biggest rush so often end up being the ones that sit on some paper pusher's desk for a month after the "deadline" before even being looked at).
well said, bryan. so true
You have a good point, b4a. Also, simply putting OT doesn't make someone more dedicated than others. My point is that sometimes we have to step up to the plate when we need to; sure, we should find the solution if someone has been always asked to stay late to meet the deadline, but as you know, sometime it just happens, and that's the nature of this business... every business.
I hated when I had to stay late to meet the deadline, because someone slacked off (that someone just happened to believe that no one should be force to work ot); but hey, when the next salary review came up, I got promoted and raise, while that person got no promotion and no raise.
Clients always want it ASAP, and we KNOW sometimes they don't even look at it for weeks. However, they are the ones who pay us. If we start delaying the due dates and not meeting their expectations, they will find the ones who will meet their expectations.
we need to be unionized, man. ;)
I love archinect makes a good point however I always see the young architect / intern slaving away for the company on all hours like I was a few years ago until I realized that it makes little difference to the work done, and creates negative feeling at home and some resentment in the office.
Everything is to be done yesterday on a never ending list of tasks. The key is to remain focused on the priorities and work your contracted hours (key deadlines exempt).
Work smarter not harder.
Also fulcrum we are unionized with RIBA etc. Currently toothless, outdated and an unfortunate necessity if you are to have limited professional credibility.
hey doberman, i see what you mean about the 8 am stuff, you know there will be a time when a good client comes along at that sort of time, so have integrity man! keep it up!
Heya BOT yeah thats sounds really good, I hope one day when i run projects I will encourage a trend of archtiects and contractors to work SMARTER! lets go!
BOTS,
we better start lifting some weights and bring out 2X s.
Shoot the Pinkertons!!!!
I love archinect - good luck
fulcrum - this is our work out, lets get it on
don't forget your shagging lunges
is that my boss?
yeah, he popped in for this quick demo. He wanted to practice on my lady but I fought him off bravely. when you see him give him what for from me, I also recommend changing the tight white jeans for something more appropriate. No socks is criminal.
''i don't see why someone who works 40 hours a week can't be a hard-working dedicated professional. i think i can trace just about every instance where i've been expected to put in overtime back to UNprofessionalism on someone else's part - understaffing of projects by the firm, poor time management by project managers, failure of consultants to meet their deadlines, unrealistic timeframes on the client's part.''
This is probably the most valid point made in this thread. Lack of organization and poor managements skills plague our industry, no doubt about that. What's more, we all seem to accept our fate and put up with it...
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