so i'm designing a tower with weaving forms inside which is sort of the colums for it.. a professor told me to use diagrid for the structural framing but i can't seem to get any more information other than the hearst tower and the one from wikipedia.
does anyone have any information whether i need to use more columns inside the building? or can it hold up without any columns inside the blocks? (3 blocks within the tower-- for segregation purposes) i was thinking of something like the old world trade center wherein the structural members were outside the building.. right?
dammson: didnt understand what i needed. well he did but we argued about how it would stand up. he keeps on telling me that i need to put tension members on the topmost block but i didnt want to because it was ugly.
so i wanted to prove to him that it works. i did the design already (in sketch) but he told me that it still wouldnt work. it has to tho. im stubborn as hell when it comes to the design that the structural always comes last.
whats waffle concrete? well at 1st it was supposed to be i beams but he also told me that it would be really hard to prove that it would hold since i have a garden chandelier to hold.
and to make it clear the engineer didnt do anything i designed the tower he was more of like a backup plan with few results. and he can do my cad for me. haha
is what your description made me think of. Is taht the kind of thing you are talking about? It's a bit hard to tell what the structural system is from your description--if you can post a sketch that would help.
Waffle slab concrete is briefly described here, it is a way of building floorplates with concrete but lessening their weight by subtracting square volumes out of it, essentially. the floor plate then acts as a sort of integral web of concrete beams to distribute the point loads on the surface. Sorry if this is a poor description, it is past midnight and it has been years since I've thought about waffle slab floors.
art: something different! i'll post the sketch in my school blog one day.
myriam: something to that extent only larger spans/gridding thing. thanks for the waffle concrete site. i already got it! i'm thinking of using that so it would be lightweight.
forget everything else i said in your other thread, you are the next great architect.
wow. i admire your huevos. your structural engineer that you hired for your thesis says you can't do it without tension members at the top and you just say it HAS to work because YOU say so and it's YOUR vision. so then you decide to PROVE it to him by SKETCHING it. if you sketch it, it will stand. it MUST! it HAS TO! it will, right?
brilliant!
now, cast aside the fact that, yes, any technical problem CAN be solved.
in the real world (we KEEP using that phrase, don't we?) it would be up to the structural engineer to figure out your problem for you. you had better learn to not alienate your structural engineers when you immediately open your own firm directly after graduation. and you had better learn enough about engineering in school (they're supposed to teach you some) such that, when you're picking out engineers, you can separate the good from the bad.
Yes I am pretty surprised that they didn't teach you such a mundane thing as waffle slab concrete. Seems standard to me. Maybe they don't use concrete as much in the philippines?
as for me, i had no idea what waffle slab is. actually i asked my classmate this afternoon if he knew what that was and.. he did. haha. but he said something about we learned about it in 2nd yr i couldve forgotten about it since we dont talk about it much
Research Fazlur Khan, the engineer at SOM who developed the diagrid structure. Hancock tower in chicago is an early "diagrid" building. The exterior of the building is the structure which is completely self supporting (that is it doesn't use the floor slabs for lateral stability). At least I think. I can't remember if it has additional interior columns, but if it does they are secondary. Lots of Skidmore projects (including the "Freedom Tower" - at least at one point) develop this. I'd have to see a sketch of your design to understand what your intentions are, though.
Jan 16, 07 6:16 pm ·
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diagrid-info?
so i'm designing a tower with weaving forms inside which is sort of the colums for it.. a professor told me to use diagrid for the structural framing but i can't seem to get any more information other than the hearst tower and the one from wikipedia.
does anyone have any information whether i need to use more columns inside the building? or can it hold up without any columns inside the blocks? (3 blocks within the tower-- for segregation purposes) i was thinking of something like the old world trade center wherein the structural members were outside the building.. right?
thanks :)
what happened to your structural engineer?
depends on the spanning capability of the floor...what's the structure of the floor? deep-ass i beams?...waffle concrete?
dammson: didnt understand what i needed. well he did but we argued about how it would stand up. he keeps on telling me that i need to put tension members on the topmost block but i didnt want to because it was ugly.
so i wanted to prove to him that it works. i did the design already (in sketch) but he told me that it still wouldnt work. it has to tho. im stubborn as hell when it comes to the design that the structural always comes last.
whats waffle concrete? well at 1st it was supposed to be i beams but he also told me that it would be really hard to prove that it would hold since i have a garden chandelier to hold.
and to make it clear the engineer didnt do anything i designed the tower he was more of like a backup plan with few results. and he can do my cad for me. haha
towers are primarily structural...
is what your description made me think of. Is taht the kind of thing you are talking about? It's a bit hard to tell what the structural system is from your description--if you can post a sketch that would help.
Waffle slab concrete is briefly described here, it is a way of building floorplates with concrete but lessening their weight by subtracting square volumes out of it, essentially. the floor plate then acts as a sort of integral web of concrete beams to distribute the point loads on the surface. Sorry if this is a poor description, it is past midnight and it has been years since I've thought about waffle slab floors.
Also FOA's bundle towers and OMA's Seattle library and CCTV seem to be relevant. Or are you thinking of something different?
foster's gherkin is a diagrid.
look to that building for info and specs.
art: something different! i'll post the sketch in my school blog one day.
myriam: something to that extent only larger spans/gridding thing. thanks for the waffle concrete site. i already got it! i'm thinking of using that so it would be lightweight.
ferd: ohh ok thanks. will look at that now.
forget everything else i said in your other thread, you are the next great architect.
wow. i admire your huevos. your structural engineer that you hired for your thesis says you can't do it without tension members at the top and you just say it HAS to work because YOU say so and it's YOUR vision. so then you decide to PROVE it to him by SKETCHING it. if you sketch it, it will stand. it MUST! it HAS TO! it will, right?
brilliant!
now, cast aside the fact that, yes, any technical problem CAN be solved.
in the real world (we KEEP using that phrase, don't we?) it would be up to the structural engineer to figure out your problem for you. you had better learn to not alienate your structural engineers when you immediately open your own firm directly after graduation. and you had better learn enough about engineering in school (they're supposed to teach you some) such that, when you're picking out engineers, you can separate the good from the bad.
Yes I am pretty surprised that they didn't teach you such a mundane thing as waffle slab concrete. Seems standard to me. Maybe they don't use concrete as much in the philippines?
Google Ito's "Sendai Mediatheque".
myriam: we do! a lot!
as for me, i had no idea what waffle slab is. actually i asked my classmate this afternoon if he knew what that was and.. he did. haha. but he said something about we learned about it in 2nd yr i couldve forgotten about it since we dont talk about it much
i'm appreciating the registration exams right now.
i know, jeffe...and it turns out we DID learn something when WE went to school
Research Fazlur Khan, the engineer at SOM who developed the diagrid structure. Hancock tower in chicago is an early "diagrid" building. The exterior of the building is the structure which is completely self supporting (that is it doesn't use the floor slabs for lateral stability). At least I think. I can't remember if it has additional interior columns, but if it does they are secondary. Lots of Skidmore projects (including the "Freedom Tower" - at least at one point) develop this. I'd have to see a sketch of your design to understand what your intentions are, though.
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