I'm a long time native New Yorker looking to possibly move to the sunnier side of the country.
I've applied to schools both here and in SF/LA and just wanted to get a feel of the architectural marketplace out in LA / SF and even NY actually.
To all who have experience in these metro areas - what are some of the characteristics of each market?
In all seriousness, super, if you have only lived in NY then you may notice when you get to California that people think you are being brusque or even mean - the east coast tends to be less casual/friendly and everyone understands that its not personal. I know when I moved to Philly I thought everyone was nasty or grumpuy and after being there for ten years when I would go back to Oregon it seemed like everyone was just too slow and chatty.
super, Lib Bell is correct, although I must add, that recently things have changed in Los Angeles, as more and more people seem to move to California, I've noticed people aren't as "friendly" as some think. Actually I've noticed people become meaner or just don't even acknowledge you (esp. during rush hour traffic). I'm guilty too.
So that will give you some idea. However, for the most part, people here are sort of laid back, but also moving quickly. Don't know what word would best describe that.
in terms of the coastal personality differences...I am more than familiar with the varying (stereo)types as I've been to the west coast on several occasions. In NY, people almost get along by being rude. And for some reason, there is a certain degree of comfort in that. Actually, when I'm in China where there are ten million people everywhere and people are jsut all up in everyone's faces, there is a certain degree of comfort in that as well. Its because when they cut you in line or bump you by accident or cut you off or whatever, its almost expected and people have grown so accustomed to it and in a sense they have matured beyond the inital reaction of anger.
Anyway, what I really wanted to get at was how is the architectural economy in these places. How easy or difficult is it to find work? Are there certain types of projects which dominant these regions? Competiveness of the field and how the different personalities play their roles in this regard (for example - NY is filled with money hungry as*holes who will step all over you to get ahead type of thing).
DO west coast offices get more international work?
Or for example - hospitality design, specifically hotels and resorts is something I'd like to explore...are one of those cities stronger in this field?
I have been poring over LA job ads and firms recently and was surprised to note how many do kind of more... showy, surface-type architecture--like restaurant interiors, movie theatre renovations, and shoe stores. Some good design, but it was a reminder to me that the market is in fact a little different out here than what I got used to in the East. For example, people aren't used to dealing with context, which is just taken for granted in NYC, Boston, and Chicago. Therefore they seem to be a bit freer to have fun, but it can also look like everyone's trying to be the newest, differentest thing on the block.
On the other hand, there are also some great firms here that do more modern stuff than anything I've seen out East, which is refreshing. Came across a couple firms that particularly surprised me with their beautiful SCHOOLS--traditionally one of the WORST and most UGLY bits of eastern architecture, and there are some truly beautiful, cutting edge ones being designed out here. So that is pretty awesome. Also of note are some fantastic libraries, and civic buildings. The residences and restaurants I personally find tend to be showier and less subtle than my personal design sense--things have changed a lot since Neutra and Schindler ruled the roost, I guess. But I have *just* started looking at all this stuff.
Also surprising is the sheer NUMBER of architecture firms in LA. Many seem to do combinations of interiors, objects, graphics, and branding--much more cross-disciplinary work than back East.
i wouldn't say people are rude in NY... actually, there are a lot of nice people here. then again i could have had lower expectations, being from the south and always hearing about the rudeness, so i was pleasantly surprised. also, there are completely different vibes depending on the neighborhood. downtown is much more laid back than midtown/uptown.
but i digress, since this is more about arch firms.... new york can be pretty cut throat. again, 'not personal, just business.'
I think that graphic is actually a watershed map. Chicago happens to sit on a subcontinental divide that separates the Great Lakes watershed from the Mississippi River watershed... In fact, Chicago owes its very existance to this happenstance of nature: The Illinois and Michigan Canal was dug through this divide, which led to Chicago becoming the transportation hub of the mid-continent.
yeah el jeffe I never liked that either. It still weirds me out. I keep mixing south and north up in Chicago because I just assume the water MUST be to the west. I literally have to talk to myself and say, "No, OK, so the lake is to the EAST... that must mean... (here I spin around and literally point in each cardinal direction).. that's SOUTH and that's NORTH" it will take me forever to get the hang of it.
hahaha actually i was just there recently and totally screwed that one up too!!!! also kept reversing the location of the mississippi relative to Baton Rouge. it's kind of funny to get all of your cardinal directions exactly backwards. I never realized how easy I had it in California.
The pacific coast is a receding coast, while the Atlantic is an emerging coast. Another coastal difference is that the Atlantic Ocean is significantly warmer than the Pacific, warmed by the Gulf Stream, while the Pacific is cooled by the Alaska current.
i get confused in chicago also, but because i'm from the west coast of michigan. i always think i'm headed south when i'm driving from downtown to irving park.
I drive around lost most of the time in Northwest Connecticut.....figure I will evently come out on a
road that looks familiar. Which is what usually happens, after a half hour or so. I always take the back roads when ever possible because there is just so much to discover....so I will let you guys dream of big city life in NY, SF, LA.
squirelly/mdler: actually life in sf is so much better if you avoid carpooling (the bay area was just rated second worst traffic in US, after LA), but rather live and work right in the city, and hence bike/bart/muni will do...
"Lake Michigan equals East" - I lived in Milwaukee for the first 21 years of my life. My sense of direction in that town was impeccable.
My sense of direction and cognitive maps went down the drain when I moved to DC, especially since I live on the west side of the Potomac, used to work on the east side of the Potomac, and now work on the north side of the Potomac. It blew my mind the day I realized that the river doesn't run north-south for its entire length, but it turns east-west at Georgetown.
i say, SF is all-around the greatest combo on your list for the amount of work and the quality of life. SF is only 7 miles by 7 miles...it's really compact compared to either NY or LA. you can totally walk it all the time, if you have the calves and thighs for some of those 45-degree grades.
also it seemed like people were the nicest there.
lastly, the fact that you can change biomes just by biking 5 miles across town...that's awesome.
I liked the fog in SF. Even though I love SF, I think it is probably easier to find an architecture job in NY or LA. My experience with the architecture community in SF is that there are a few large corporate offices and many small offices which run the gamut from residential to service/commercial. If you have experience and like SF and small office environments or very large office environments, I wouldn't take it off your list though. I thought a lot of the more interesting work in SF was residential. I haven't lived in SF for 2 years though, so it might have changed.
the LA architecture market is booming right now. What seems in especially high demand are those with 5-10 years experience, although I can't say that the recent grads I know have had trouble finding work, either. The people I know who are still in school are finding really great internships (at least compared to what was out there when I went through it!) too.
There's a great variety to the work available in LA. Custom houses, tract houses, schools, corporate, healthcare.... it's all here, at all different levels of quality.
On the other hand.... life in LA kind of sucks. If you make friends at work, they'll live 20-50 miles away from you, so you won't hang out outside of work. The people in apartment buildings don't talk to each other, and seem to move a lot, so it's hard to make friends in your neighborhood.
Jan 11, 07 4:34 pm ·
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Coastal Differences - NY, LA, SF
I'm a long time native New Yorker looking to possibly move to the sunnier side of the country.
I've applied to schools both here and in SF/LA and just wanted to get a feel of the architectural marketplace out in LA / SF and even NY actually.
To all who have experience in these metro areas - what are some of the characteristics of each market?
SF = zombies
NY = vampires
LA = werewolves
SF = cutting-edge-do-gooder-hipster zombies
NY = uber-sophisticated-cooler-than-thou vampires
LA = no-qualms-bite-you-to-the-bone-while-taking-a-phone-call werewolves
SF = fog
NY = urban pollution/filth (in the air)
LA = smog
In all seriousness, super, if you have only lived in NY then you may notice when you get to California that people think you are being brusque or even mean - the east coast tends to be less casual/friendly and everyone understands that its not personal. I know when I moved to Philly I thought everyone was nasty or grumpuy and after being there for ten years when I would go back to Oregon it seemed like everyone was just too slow and chatty.
super, Lib Bell is correct, although I must add, that recently things have changed in Los Angeles, as more and more people seem to move to California, I've noticed people aren't as "friendly" as some think. Actually I've noticed people become meaner or just don't even acknowledge you (esp. during rush hour traffic). I'm guilty too.
So that will give you some idea. However, for the most part, people here are sort of laid back, but also moving quickly. Don't know what word would best describe that.
in terms of the coastal personality differences...I am more than familiar with the varying (stereo)types as I've been to the west coast on several occasions. In NY, people almost get along by being rude. And for some reason, there is a certain degree of comfort in that. Actually, when I'm in China where there are ten million people everywhere and people are jsut all up in everyone's faces, there is a certain degree of comfort in that as well. Its because when they cut you in line or bump you by accident or cut you off or whatever, its almost expected and people have grown so accustomed to it and in a sense they have matured beyond the inital reaction of anger.
Anyway, what I really wanted to get at was how is the architectural economy in these places. How easy or difficult is it to find work? Are there certain types of projects which dominant these regions? Competiveness of the field and how the different personalities play their roles in this regard (for example - NY is filled with money hungry as*holes who will step all over you to get ahead type of thing).
DO west coast offices get more international work?
Or for example - hospitality design, specifically hotels and resorts is something I'd like to explore...are one of those cities stronger in this field?
LA needs architects
I have been poring over LA job ads and firms recently and was surprised to note how many do kind of more... showy, surface-type architecture--like restaurant interiors, movie theatre renovations, and shoe stores. Some good design, but it was a reminder to me that the market is in fact a little different out here than what I got used to in the East. For example, people aren't used to dealing with context, which is just taken for granted in NYC, Boston, and Chicago. Therefore they seem to be a bit freer to have fun, but it can also look like everyone's trying to be the newest, differentest thing on the block.
On the other hand, there are also some great firms here that do more modern stuff than anything I've seen out East, which is refreshing. Came across a couple firms that particularly surprised me with their beautiful SCHOOLS--traditionally one of the WORST and most UGLY bits of eastern architecture, and there are some truly beautiful, cutting edge ones being designed out here. So that is pretty awesome. Also of note are some fantastic libraries, and civic buildings. The residences and restaurants I personally find tend to be showier and less subtle than my personal design sense--things have changed a lot since Neutra and Schindler ruled the roost, I guess. But I have *just* started looking at all this stuff.
Also surprising is the sheer NUMBER of architecture firms in LA. Many seem to do combinations of interiors, objects, graphics, and branding--much more cross-disciplinary work than back East.
i wouldn't say people are rude in NY... actually, there are a lot of nice people here. then again i could have had lower expectations, being from the south and always hearing about the rudeness, so i was pleasantly surprised. also, there are completely different vibes depending on the neighborhood. downtown is much more laid back than midtown/uptown.
but i digress, since this is more about arch firms.... new york can be pretty cut throat. again, 'not personal, just business.'
hold on. what about the Central Coast?
i love you bossman...you are the greatest!
hey how come Chicago is cut out out of there??? i have swum off the coast of chicago.
i think because chicago is right on the edge of the basin
i grew up in the SF bay area and then lived in LA for about 10 years.
the thought of being at the beach at sunset and having the sun behind me is just plain disturbing...
I think that graphic is actually a watershed map. Chicago happens to sit on a subcontinental divide that separates the Great Lakes watershed from the Mississippi River watershed... In fact, Chicago owes its very existance to this happenstance of nature: The Illinois and Michigan Canal was dug through this divide, which led to Chicago becoming the transportation hub of the mid-continent.
yeah el jeffe I never liked that either. It still weirds me out. I keep mixing south and north up in Chicago because I just assume the water MUST be to the west. I literally have to talk to myself and say, "No, OK, so the lake is to the EAST... that must mean... (here I spin around and literally point in each cardinal direction).. that's SOUTH and that's NORTH" it will take me forever to get the hang of it.
NY = can you make me rich
LA = can you make me famous
SF = can you get me high/laid/good chinese food
hmmmm i like that treekiller.....I think me needs to move to SF
try being in new orleans and getting your head around the fact that the water is in the direction of "up"
hahaha actually i was just there recently and totally screwed that one up too!!!! also kept reversing the location of the mississippi relative to Baton Rouge. it's kind of funny to get all of your cardinal directions exactly backwards. I never realized how easy I had it in California.
squirrelly
lets carpool
The pacific coast is a receding coast, while the Atlantic is an emerging coast. Another coastal difference is that the Atlantic Ocean is significantly warmer than the Pacific, warmed by the Gulf Stream, while the Pacific is cooled by the Alaska current.
Im all over the pool mdler....
the car, not the body of water!
i get confused in chicago also, but because i'm from the west coast of michigan. i always think i'm headed south when i'm driving from downtown to irving park.
I drive around lost most of the time in Northwest Connecticut.....figure I will evently come out on a
road that looks familiar. Which is what usually happens, after a half hour or so. I always take the back roads when ever possible because there is just so much to discover....so I will let you guys dream of big city life in NY, SF, LA.
Swim in any Great Lake except Erie. Huron is my personal favourite :).
lake superior is cold. and chicago is left of the map because chicago general sucks and is full of foul-smelling, booger-eating morons.
squirelly/mdler: actually life in sf is so much better if you avoid carpooling (the bay area was just rated second worst traffic in US, after LA), but rather live and work right in the city, and hence bike/bart/muni will do...
and squirelly theres not much fog, in the right places (mission, potrero hill, etc)
"Lake Michigan equals East" - I lived in Milwaukee for the first 21 years of my life. My sense of direction in that town was impeccable.
My sense of direction and cognitive maps went down the drain when I moved to DC, especially since I live on the west side of the Potomac, used to work on the east side of the Potomac, and now work on the north side of the Potomac. It blew my mind the day I realized that the river doesn't run north-south for its entire length, but it turns east-west at Georgetown.
lake michigan is cold, too...
i say, SF is all-around the greatest combo on your list for the amount of work and the quality of life. SF is only 7 miles by 7 miles...it's really compact compared to either NY or LA. you can totally walk it all the time, if you have the calves and thighs for some of those 45-degree grades.
also it seemed like people were the nicest there.
lastly, the fact that you can change biomes just by biking 5 miles across town...that's awesome.
I liked the fog in SF. Even though I love SF, I think it is probably easier to find an architecture job in NY or LA. My experience with the architecture community in SF is that there are a few large corporate offices and many small offices which run the gamut from residential to service/commercial. If you have experience and like SF and small office environments or very large office environments, I wouldn't take it off your list though. I thought a lot of the more interesting work in SF was residential. I haven't lived in SF for 2 years though, so it might have changed.
one has sand and cliffs,
another has cliffs, cobbles, and piers
and the other has marsh, mud, trash and wharfs
or
one has malibu and venice beach (plus day trips to catalina)
one has the marina district, the golden gate bridge, and alcatraz
one has coney island, battery park, and the staten island ferry
I've swam in Lake Superior. That's some crisp freshwater fun!
the LA architecture market is booming right now. What seems in especially high demand are those with 5-10 years experience, although I can't say that the recent grads I know have had trouble finding work, either. The people I know who are still in school are finding really great internships (at least compared to what was out there when I went through it!) too.
There's a great variety to the work available in LA. Custom houses, tract houses, schools, corporate, healthcare.... it's all here, at all different levels of quality.
On the other hand.... life in LA kind of sucks. If you make friends at work, they'll live 20-50 miles away from you, so you won't hang out outside of work. The people in apartment buildings don't talk to each other, and seem to move a lot, so it's hard to make friends in your neighborhood.
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