In my experience, design firm principals are licensed, even if not the architect of record. Are you attempting to avoid registation for whatever reason (I can think of many!)? Or are you truly not interested?

This is a very good question. From what I understand, there are legal restrictions on what you can call yourself if at least one of the partners in the business isn't licensed. Meaning, at least 50% of the ownership has to be a licensed architect if you are going to advertise that you do architecture. If you are just going to bill yourself as a design company, I'm not entirely sure what the rules are. I don't really come across those types of companies very often. If you are doing anything beyond residential, it might become rather sticky.

i would like to get registered but i have a few other plans in the mix and cant see myself working up the idp credits prior to the exam......

my goals are to provide a design service to
1.clients in the housing market
2. exhibit design companies
3. retail interiors..i.e. displays
4. funiture design/build


i am working on building up my shop and would like to figure out my limitations

i am a licensed builder in michigan and can get insurance for 2 mill......

along with model building, i want to venture back into the design field ....

i would like to work on bars/clubs/interiors..... and since i'm a licensed builder with ins. then i dont think i would have an issue...but then again i know that value of the stamp for dwgs is priceless when trying to make nice work happen.....

Design firms are pretty common here in Los Angeles where the owner isn't licensed. You shouldn't have a problem doing this, but having an architect you could work with if you need a stamp would be good.

Craig Ellwood was never licensed, so even after establishing himself as a world renowned 'architect' he could never call himself one and had a staff architect stamp all his drawings.

in some states you can get a builders license after passing a relatively simple test (from what I've heard). with this license you can design up to a certain square footage, i.e. 2,500 sq.ft. in Wisconsin, without being a registered architect.

welcome back 43N88W!

i'm still debating on whether to stay in detroit or bounce to cali and bring my shop..... the builders exam was easy and took me about 30 minutes (supposed to be a 3-4 hour exam..)

only issues i think of going to cali verse staying in detroit is
1. rent is expensive in cali...
2. work is hard to find/get in detroit
3. would take me sometime to get my name out in cali...
4. not sure where to find shop space in cali....


so i guess it all boils down to the dollar........

when did i ever leave?

cryzko, I came to SoCal from Detroit. I highly recommend it.

Its pretty easy to find work out here; there is an abundance of people with money and land.

And Detroit is Detroit...

email sent to silver......

detroit is like punching a gummy bear and expecting something to break.....

study architectural digest...it's all about being an architect without being an architect, and successful too

yo - crysko, stop by salt lake on your way to so-cal.

So why not go to California, work in a firm for however long it takes to finish your IDP hours, then quit, take the exam, and have built up enough contacts in the interim - while you've been working in the region - that your own business will be truly viable?

crysko, this isn't directed specifically at you, as I know you've been seriously considering your future for awhile, but I just have to wonder:

Everytime one of these threads comes up about the benefits vs. pain in the ass of getting registered - why would anyone NOT want to get registered?! I just don't understand it, for me the whole point of getting registered was that I could then leave the field if I wanted to knowing that I had accomplished the original goal. I can't unerstand not wanting to do it. Must be something in my astrological sign ;-)

yeah i was gonna say, if you're considering moving to california anyway then you may as well sit the exams--as far as i know you still don't have to have a degree to become licensed in california, you only have to have work experience.

also, when you figure out how to do all the design without any of the boring bits, please, do be kind and share with us. and the rest of the entire architecture profession.

Sorry, I don't mean to be an ass, maybe I don't really understand your goal.

Most high-design firms are either interiors-only--requiring no stamp--or are of such reknown that client is willing to hire an architect of record just for the chance to get your concept. Or you can get a friend to look over drawings and stamp I suppose but then you are still doing the dirty work yourself.

I know there are a few firms branching out into "branding", where they provide sort of all around conceptual services to a client--from graphics design to interiors to architecture to master planning--and client then contracts specific work projects out to other firms. There are a couple firms doing this in LA already--one of them was just profiled in this months Arch. Record if you check that out. Perhaps that is more what you're looking for?

Seems both difficult and unsubstantive to me, as you are borrowing a bit from a bunch of different design discipline's territories and in my experience it would be difficult to convince a client to go through double the design process (in essence) to get a building in the end. They barely understand the need for the first design process half the time, let alone paying for two. You would honestly have to be quite hot shit and demonstrably so. Also you will be forever fighting turf wars with marketing/branding firms, interior designers, other architects, etcetera just to carve out your own market niche.

So many people want to do design-only (and no nitty-gritty) that I would be surprised if it were worth clambering through the fray to get yourself the jobs you want. Why not just do interiors design/build? Sounds like that's what your background and interests lend themselves to.

My view from the start is the same as it is now..... get registered so you don't have to deal with any other design people enroute to delivering the project ie landscape, interior or architect. If you don't think that getting someone to stamp your design after the fact is hard and that they won't want much money for that process your very wrong, they also may want to make changes to suit their liability concerns. If you keep it all in house everyone deals with you.... only.

Its part ego but also a whole lot easier to maintain the clarity of concept rather than let more people into the pool that may want to compromise the product. It takes many, many people to complete any significant project so why not start with the aspects you can control.

i think i might have to jump ship and make the move then......

over the years i thought that my background in construction would help me place in a firm....but it really made the option harder since i only have 2 years of office experience from the 8 years ive been out of school.....

i learned alot in the field and like the craft that goes into building..... my notion for detail is high and i dont like hack jobs even in rough carpentry.....

aside from office work, i still plan on having my small shop for models/funiture/etc..... so i guess it a matter of hooking up with a firm that might benefit from my knowledge and make a joint venture or something.....

this past year was a real eye opener for me.... turned 30 last may....so it's like a premidlife crisis or something..... i have visions but it seems that something is working against me........


joop..... do i know you?.....salt lake/juip?......udm?...... maybe not

i recently got a referral to a potential client. the potential client was a builder who had a buddy who had drawn up a home plan. they wanted me to draft the plan and stamp it every time they repeated the plan.

wait, i think i'm putting this in the wrong light. they told me i would work "under the supervision" of this buddy, who incidentally i met out front while he was smoking a joint before the initial meeting.

oh, and they were going to pay me $800 for all that design freedom and liability.

cryzko, why don't you just take the exams and as whistler said, bypass the middleman. unless you have hypnotic powers or great "taste."

my seal was hard as hell to get and damned if i'm gonna use it to cover someone else's ass. there is this illusion that there are architects out there who will just stamp someone else's drawings on the cheap. i have never met one of those architects, because i'm pretty sure that they don't exist.

please prove me wrong if i am.

they exist i used to work for one...

yes I am that juip/slc.
in the interest of staying on topic with the thread, I currently work at the place you are describing. we are a small design build firm doing spec houses in salt lake. we build our own windows, doors, cabinets, counters and houses. we are starting prototypes for some furniture that we hope to release within the year.

Based on the house we finished last spring, we have received a lot of interest and currently have clients ranging from interior re-models to restaurants to a small design center.

I have all my IDP done and am working on getting my authorization to test so that we do not have to sub things out anymore.
The design center mentiond above is one that we were hired to do the design for. However, since I do not know anyone that would 'just stamp' drawings (and I wouldn't feel right going that route) we got a friend of mine involved in the conceptual phase and passed the design on to him. Now, if it takes off, he is in the loop, doing a lot of work on the project, and (hopefully) will feel better about stamping the drawings at the end of the process.

I far as your post udm experience is concerned - I think it is still very valuable. A friend of mine who runs a furniture shop across the street (also from detroit), the senior shop guy where I work and I were talking last week about how hard it is to find anybody who is skilled enough to work in a shop that is not going leave as soon as they've saved up enough money to jet for an 8 month climbing trip.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you are going to start a design firm w/out being liscensed, the only model I can see is one where A) the client is an interiors client (build outs, cabinets, kitchens and furniture); B) you are the client (spec homes, in slc you can build up to 3,500 sf w/out a liscense - still need structural stamp though); or C) your studio makes some sort of product that you design, build and provide to the retail market.

I had a call on Friday night from a frantic lady. I was introduced to her awhile back by a common friend. She has plenty of dough, from the looks of it.....you know giant old second home in the country. She wanted me to help her with the addition of a bathroom in here house. Her realtor told her it would make her house more valuable if this particular room had a bathroom. I took a look at it and gave her my suggestion, which she fired back at me well my plumber said,@!@!#!$%#B. I looked back at her and said why don't you just have your plumber design it for you and build it. Upon which I made a graceful exit, thinking....I never want to see this lady again. So she gives me a call on Friday Evening on my house phone, sounds half in the bag complaining about her architect and how she can't communicate with him and nor can her husband. I told her I'm sorry we are booked out thru the end of next summer and we will not be taking on any new residential clients. I did ask her who her architect was and she declined to say who he was, but I suspect he was just another unregistered house designer who has been working on subdivision crap. I bid her a good night and ask that she call me in the future on our business line, because I don't answer it on Friday evenings.

snooker, why didn't you just design her a bathroom and get her a plumber who would do it? and charge her a lot?

Oh.....think maybe her plumber provides other services on the side.....and it was a battle to not be won....I could hear it in her voice.
Lady was just plain scarry!

smart move, snooker. sounds like she had "bad client" written all over her.

Yea snooker, I agree with Myriam, very smart move.

cryzko, i may have misunderstood your aims a bit, so in that interest, i would concur with joop.

i don't know if this is off-topic or not, but i was going through a very complex portion of a project with the contractor, explaining it to him because he did not know why things were the way they were.

the reason is because about seven different factors were influencing that portion of the design. zoning. building code. proximity to property line. constructability. structural capability. MEP requirements. and last (and definitely least to the contractor): aesthetics.

he said, "i never knew so much was going on there. only an architect could have figured all that out."