I know you guys have to do this all the time... but i really need some outside input and help. you see, my decision of where i want to go to college is very clouded with opinions of friends and family. There are lots of relationships that I must make or break with this decision. I know that I dont want to decide my future on where my girlfriend or best friend is going to school or where my family is located. that is why I want an unbiased opinion of these schools.
I live about 25 min outside of Cleveland. My family is mostly here, but i have a couple of cousins in the san fran bay area. I recently was accepted at both Cal Poly and UC, but I need to decide in a few weeks.
When considering ONLY the architecture programs, which would you suggest?
I am more artistic and design oriented than all about the business side of architecture, is one school more well-suited for me in that aspect?
What about if i told you I want to be able to go to sports and do lots of singing and performing in my spare time?
I know that Cincinnati has more to offer me in the ways of extracurriculars (because of its outstanding choral and theatre programs), but how much should i base my decision off of that?
Do you think that both programs are so good that I should go where its cheaper and has more to offer or would four years on the west coast give me more of an oppurtunity to succeed?
I really appreciate any discussion and responses because i am very stressed about this decision. Thank you.
Instead of telling you which one to pick, I (and many others) can offer an insight to UC.
The undergrad program has definitely improved for the better over the past few years. A couple of years ago when I started, the emphasis was more as a co-op school and practical knowledge. Now I want to say with the improvements, UC is striking a balance between design/theory and the practical.
I think perhaps you should take a look at the actual programs themselves instead of the school such as the ammenities they offer and their importance to you. Like the opportunity to integrate practical work experience in with school or laser cutting/CNC access.
As much as the co-op program is hyped, I don't know too many others that has as many established relationships with firms. They get you in there and establish connections. I used mine to travel and explore cities around the country. Work terms are like vacations compared to school terms...
I know plenty of people who graduated from here and are doing quite well on the east and west coast.
As far as extracurriculars, architecture school is not very condusive to them, but I'm sure you can strike a balance. The College Conservatory of Music is a nationally known program as you already know.
I agree with everything above. Also, consider this: going to UC, you can spend 6 months in the Bay Area, or New York, or London, or anywhere conceivably you want, all because of the co-op program. Could you do that at Cal-Poly?*
for a minute i thought he meant UC as in University of California (Berkeley, i was assuming, because he mentioned the sf/bay area) and cal poly as in California State University san luis obispo...
You have to decide what type of degree you want also...UC will not give you an accredited degree unless you get a master's whereas Cal Poly will give you one. Are you talking SLO or Pomona because even those programs are different?
I am a current SLO student and have to say its the best degree to get you prepared for the profession. Its a good balance of theory and practice, but theory doesnt get you very far in the profession if you cant design something that works...unless you want to write books and teach. You have the freedom to explore whatever ideas you want but are also held accountable for the development of your design in real life terms.
There are many students here that participate in extra curriculars, its up to you to manage time wisely so you can do other things. But as most can confirm, this major takes an incredible amount of time regardless of where you go.
I encourage you to really examine the curriculum of both schools and talk to as many people from both as possible. But you first have to figure out what is really important to you as far as a degree.
I would say that more than any other single time of your life, your college years are the easiest to get out of your bubble and see another side of life. If you are from Ohio, please leave. Go to California. see what the culture is like in a different place. Ohio is very... ohio-centric. take the opportunity and go to the beach. SLO is literally the single prettiest campus I have ever visited, and I have visited a lot of campuses.
As for extra-curriculars--if you are honestly that interested in pursuing sports and the arts at the college level, then might I suggest not pursuing a B.Arch or a co-op program--ie, neither one--but instead getting your B.A. in architecture? I can honestly tell you that I know not one single person who has successfully participated in 2 non-architecture activities (such as theatre AND sports). In fact I don't know any one who managed to do theatre and architecture, although I know a few who tried. Sports and architecture--yes, if you are excellent at managing your time you can pull this one off (although you will be in the minority). But ask yourself if you want a real, well-rounded college experience. Because if you really do, do not pursue a B.Arch. it will only lead to disappointment and heartache. If you don't mind very devoted pursuit of architecture, then go for the co-op or the B.Arch.
Also, I know everyone loves the co-op system but I never could see what was so thrilling about working for 6 months during undergrad. i personally would rather stay near my friends and enjoy uni, and then i did internships in different cities in the summers anyway. but that's just my 2 cents, and i didn't do a co-op. i felt like i was gonna have my whole life ahead of me to work, so why give up fun uni time to do it early... (and i had to work during summers and during off-school hours anyway).
As a Cal Poly SLO alum, I can add a little to this. SLO is a great school to attend for architecture, BUT if you are more artistic and into design you will need to select the right professors. It was my experience that there are multiple paths to take there and you very well could end up on the technical side of the profession if the wrong one was taken. If you choose Cal Poly, find the right instructors (you will know who they are, once you are there. (Lange, Hargraves - best teacher I have had, Lucas - best I never took, Fowler, Disanto?) Take your senior priority in 3rd year to get the instructors you want. It is the last chance you will get to use it. 4th Year at Cal Poly is basically a year of travel, if you choose. Most of the school leaves this year to go to one of the many abroad programs offered. This is absolutly necessary for you education. You will have choices such as Florance Italy, Copenhagen Denmark, Sidney Australia, Fountainbleu France, India, there are others probably added by now. I went to Copenhagen for the year and it changed my life, that is getting out of your bubble.
Hope this helped you understand the program a little better.
You still haven't clarified which Cal Poly you're talking about. If it's Pomona, go with UC all the way. If it's SLO, then you have an actual decision to make - I would say that Cincy is the better education, but myriam makes a great point about getting away from home for college.
Agreed with many of the postings;
my $.02 cents is the following - whilst you've heard from some former Cal Poly grads and some current students, I must admit that for design (as was already stated) Cal Poly will be quite difficult. You will have to really dig to find good design professors. However on the other hand, if you want a good education which does prepare you quite well, but somewhat rigid (in my opinion) with regards to design, then cal poly is a fantastic choice. Knowing what you stated, then maybe cal poly is NOT a good choice for you?? Only you can surmise that!
I too have heard that UC Berkley has gone through some re-vamping and is much better, however then you have to consider that it's not an accredited degree! So.......
ultimately, myriam is spot on. Do get out of you element, and no matter which school you choose, do leave that (travel abroad) too because this will only expand your horizons and open your eyes (esp. to design).
Squirelly, how do you define rigid? Cal Poly has recently added many new, young professors that have begun to reshape to the design studios. I think the reputation that Cal Poly has for being a technical school is a bit skewed. Either that or most students perception of what an architecture school should be is wrong.
I think that anyone who believes that going through school taking "good design studios" will get them the best jobs with the coolest firms may get a heavy dose of reality when they go to find that job. Any student that doesnt believe that classes like practice, environmental control systems, structures or integrated practice will help them when they try to design should seriously rethink what architecture is.
Its getting sort of old to read all these posts about how students dont want to learn these. Well, it is my firm opinion that you cannot even begin to design unless you understand some of the things Ive said above. You can do great renderings and have some great concept using some big architecture words but it doesnt mean shit if it doesnt address some of those topics.
Just my little rant about school, but honestly architecture students need to get their heads out of the fancy books and lectures from "starchitects" and realize what architecture really is. A professor can only do so much to teach you "good design" the rest is up to your own ability to conceptualize and develop your ideas...a good professor does not equal a good project.
ray1026:
please don't mistake my imput as a bash on the school, or my personal manifesto on what schools should be doing. My words come from experience I've had (and I alone) with many people whom have graduated from the cal poly schools (both campuses). I do not speak of current conditions, because I am not involved with the school. (either campus). Hence, you def. can speak in direct correlation with what is occuring on your campus.
The rigidity I spoke of came from my personal and academic experience with design and being exposed to exquisite design approaches, and environments. I found those that did graduate from the programs at the cal poly schools (as I posted earlier) had a incredible amount of knowledge and well developed understanding of the fundamentals of functional aspects of architecture (which I agree with you, one needs to be able to real architecture built). However, and this is a BIG however....they seem to lack the development or engagement with regards to design. In other words, possibly, just possibly (speculation here) the influx of knowledge given - which is fantastic and well done - did not give students the opportunity of exploration in design which is also key to (I believe) generating "good" architecture. (** note this is my belief, you may not agree).
Therefore, I don't suggest that students, as you said, go about and stick their heads in "fancy books and lectures from 'starchitects'" yet more along the lines of there being a true balance to this formal education. Do you understand what I am expressing? yes you are right, a professor can only do so much to teach you what design is, however, isn't it the job of the school/professor to also engage the student beyond and expose to possibilities that are abound? And one should raise the question that comes with this, which is: Is there enough time to be able all these functional aspects, AND still be able to learn about 'good design' and apply it??
I do wonder!
One last bit....not all schools can give you this. It is one's own thirst for it which takes you beyond, but as a student, you also need (at times) a slight bump towards seeing new ways/new applications/new ideas/new design.
Squirrelly, I think you analysis is probably correct in that the people you know. Each individual has their own strengths and weaknesses. I happened to follow the same route that youngun is describing and had a good experience at SLO. I interned at Morphosis out of school, and now are an associate for Brian Healy Architects. Not that this is a great accomplishment, I just consider both to be very design oriented and SLO was one of the reasons I got those jobs and have done well.
As in any school there are strong designers and weak ones. It is just the way it is. SLO, with the path that I took, gave me the opportunity and freedom to engage in what you term "development or engagement with regards to design". Ultimately it is up to the student to get the most out of their education. SLO give you the opportunity, just as UC does. It matters what you do with it. Good luck with your decision.
Absolutely right dierxap.
I suppose that many students of architecture just really need to be more mature or at least mature in their decision making, as this decision is quite a major one.
It is UP TO THE STUDENT, however many of my former classmates (in undergrad) had no clue, I mean NO CLUE what the f**K they wanted. They because they (to use a comment in another post - paraphrasing) "are the rats that are bringing down the ship". Basically, there should be a definite interview format to acquire which are the students which would be best suited for the program and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
Youngun.....Best wishes. And make sure you do make the very best of your education, because if it's not what you want later, you will only have yourself to look at in the mirror and possibly blame. So take all opportunities and enjoy.
if you are from Ohio, please leave. Go to California.
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! california is already overcrowded with cowpokes from the sticks of the midwest. they don't need another starstruck wannabe compeating for few jobs at Thom's or Frank's....
but just to let you guys know i spent a whole day researching and just thinking about it and decided to go to UC. i will be on the cincinnatus scholarship and am very excited to be a part of that campus.
thank you very much for all of your comments and help i really appreciate it...
now i can slack off for the rest of senior year! ;)
Jan 2, 07 10:21 pm ·
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UC vs Cal Poly
I know you guys have to do this all the time... but i really need some outside input and help. you see, my decision of where i want to go to college is very clouded with opinions of friends and family. There are lots of relationships that I must make or break with this decision. I know that I dont want to decide my future on where my girlfriend or best friend is going to school or where my family is located. that is why I want an unbiased opinion of these schools.
I live about 25 min outside of Cleveland. My family is mostly here, but i have a couple of cousins in the san fran bay area. I recently was accepted at both Cal Poly and UC, but I need to decide in a few weeks.
When considering ONLY the architecture programs, which would you suggest?
I am more artistic and design oriented than all about the business side of architecture, is one school more well-suited for me in that aspect?
What about if i told you I want to be able to go to sports and do lots of singing and performing in my spare time?
I know that Cincinnati has more to offer me in the ways of extracurriculars (because of its outstanding choral and theatre programs), but how much should i base my decision off of that?
Do you think that both programs are so good that I should go where its cheaper and has more to offer or would four years on the west coast give me more of an oppurtunity to succeed?
I really appreciate any discussion and responses because i am very stressed about this decision. Thank you.
Instead of telling you which one to pick, I (and many others) can offer an insight to UC.
The undergrad program has definitely improved for the better over the past few years. A couple of years ago when I started, the emphasis was more as a co-op school and practical knowledge. Now I want to say with the improvements, UC is striking a balance between design/theory and the practical.
I think perhaps you should take a look at the actual programs themselves instead of the school such as the ammenities they offer and their importance to you. Like the opportunity to integrate practical work experience in with school or laser cutting/CNC access.
As much as the co-op program is hyped, I don't know too many others that has as many established relationships with firms. They get you in there and establish connections. I used mine to travel and explore cities around the country. Work terms are like vacations compared to school terms...
I know plenty of people who graduated from here and are doing quite well on the east and west coast.
As far as extracurriculars, architecture school is not very condusive to them, but I'm sure you can strike a balance. The College Conservatory of Music is a nationally known program as you already know.
Hopefully that helps.
I agree with everything above. Also, consider this: going to UC, you can spend 6 months in the Bay Area, or New York, or London, or anywhere conceivably you want, all because of the co-op program. Could you do that at Cal-Poly?*
*Disclaimer: I am a UC alumna as well.
for a minute i thought he meant UC as in University of California (Berkeley, i was assuming, because he mentioned the sf/bay area) and cal poly as in California State University san luis obispo...
confusion...
You have to decide what type of degree you want also...UC will not give you an accredited degree unless you get a master's whereas Cal Poly will give you one. Are you talking SLO or Pomona because even those programs are different?
I am a current SLO student and have to say its the best degree to get you prepared for the profession. Its a good balance of theory and practice, but theory doesnt get you very far in the profession if you cant design something that works...unless you want to write books and teach. You have the freedom to explore whatever ideas you want but are also held accountable for the development of your design in real life terms.
There are many students here that participate in extra curriculars, its up to you to manage time wisely so you can do other things. But as most can confirm, this major takes an incredible amount of time regardless of where you go.
I encourage you to really examine the curriculum of both schools and talk to as many people from both as possible. But you first have to figure out what is really important to you as far as a degree.
wow thanks guys. ray i was wondering though how i would be held back because my degree was not accredited. what exactly would that affect?
licensing...
I would say that more than any other single time of your life, your college years are the easiest to get out of your bubble and see another side of life. If you are from Ohio, please leave. Go to California. see what the culture is like in a different place. Ohio is very... ohio-centric. take the opportunity and go to the beach. SLO is literally the single prettiest campus I have ever visited, and I have visited a lot of campuses.
As for extra-curriculars--if you are honestly that interested in pursuing sports and the arts at the college level, then might I suggest not pursuing a B.Arch or a co-op program--ie, neither one--but instead getting your B.A. in architecture? I can honestly tell you that I know not one single person who has successfully participated in 2 non-architecture activities (such as theatre AND sports). In fact I don't know any one who managed to do theatre and architecture, although I know a few who tried. Sports and architecture--yes, if you are excellent at managing your time you can pull this one off (although you will be in the minority). But ask yourself if you want a real, well-rounded college experience. Because if you really do, do not pursue a B.Arch. it will only lead to disappointment and heartache. If you don't mind very devoted pursuit of architecture, then go for the co-op or the B.Arch.
Also, I know everyone loves the co-op system but I never could see what was so thrilling about working for 6 months during undergrad. i personally would rather stay near my friends and enjoy uni, and then i did internships in different cities in the summers anyway. but that's just my 2 cents, and i didn't do a co-op. i felt like i was gonna have my whole life ahead of me to work, so why give up fun uni time to do it early... (and i had to work during summers and during off-school hours anyway).
A B.Arch (5-year degree) means you can sit for your exams without any further education.
A B.A. in Arch. (4-year degree) means you have to get a Master's before you are allowed to sit your exams.
go with pretty!!!
As a Cal Poly SLO alum, I can add a little to this. SLO is a great school to attend for architecture, BUT if you are more artistic and into design you will need to select the right professors. It was my experience that there are multiple paths to take there and you very well could end up on the technical side of the profession if the wrong one was taken. If you choose Cal Poly, find the right instructors (you will know who they are, once you are there. (Lange, Hargraves - best teacher I have had, Lucas - best I never took, Fowler, Disanto?) Take your senior priority in 3rd year to get the instructors you want. It is the last chance you will get to use it. 4th Year at Cal Poly is basically a year of travel, if you choose. Most of the school leaves this year to go to one of the many abroad programs offered. This is absolutly necessary for you education. You will have choices such as Florance Italy, Copenhagen Denmark, Sidney Australia, Fountainbleu France, India, there are others probably added by now. I went to Copenhagen for the year and it changed my life, that is getting out of your bubble.
Hope this helped you understand the program a little better.
Florence Italy
Sydney
Fontainebleau
made that education look bad with those typos..it is early here.sorry.
You still haven't clarified which Cal Poly you're talking about. If it's Pomona, go with UC all the way. If it's SLO, then you have an actual decision to make - I would say that Cincy is the better education, but myriam makes a great point about getting away from home for college.
Best of luck to you.
I'm guessing since he said bay area he probably means SLO. do out of staters even know pomona exists?
Agreed with many of the postings;
my $.02 cents is the following - whilst you've heard from some former Cal Poly grads and some current students, I must admit that for design (as was already stated) Cal Poly will be quite difficult. You will have to really dig to find good design professors. However on the other hand, if you want a good education which does prepare you quite well, but somewhat rigid (in my opinion) with regards to design, then cal poly is a fantastic choice. Knowing what you stated, then maybe cal poly is NOT a good choice for you?? Only you can surmise that!
I too have heard that UC Berkley has gone through some re-vamping and is much better, however then you have to consider that it's not an accredited degree! So.......
ultimately, myriam is spot on. Do get out of you element, and no matter which school you choose, do leave that (travel abroad) too because this will only expand your horizons and open your eyes (esp. to design).
all the best mate
Squirelly, how do you define rigid? Cal Poly has recently added many new, young professors that have begun to reshape to the design studios. I think the reputation that Cal Poly has for being a technical school is a bit skewed. Either that or most students perception of what an architecture school should be is wrong.
I think that anyone who believes that going through school taking "good design studios" will get them the best jobs with the coolest firms may get a heavy dose of reality when they go to find that job. Any student that doesnt believe that classes like practice, environmental control systems, structures or integrated practice will help them when they try to design should seriously rethink what architecture is.
Its getting sort of old to read all these posts about how students dont want to learn these. Well, it is my firm opinion that you cannot even begin to design unless you understand some of the things Ive said above. You can do great renderings and have some great concept using some big architecture words but it doesnt mean shit if it doesnt address some of those topics.
Just my little rant about school, but honestly architecture students need to get their heads out of the fancy books and lectures from "starchitects" and realize what architecture really is. A professor can only do so much to teach you "good design" the rest is up to your own ability to conceptualize and develop your ideas...a good professor does not equal a good project.
ray1026:
please don't mistake my imput as a bash on the school, or my personal manifesto on what schools should be doing. My words come from experience I've had (and I alone) with many people whom have graduated from the cal poly schools (both campuses). I do not speak of current conditions, because I am not involved with the school. (either campus). Hence, you def. can speak in direct correlation with what is occuring on your campus.
The rigidity I spoke of came from my personal and academic experience with design and being exposed to exquisite design approaches, and environments. I found those that did graduate from the programs at the cal poly schools (as I posted earlier) had a incredible amount of knowledge and well developed understanding of the fundamentals of functional aspects of architecture (which I agree with you, one needs to be able to real architecture built). However, and this is a BIG however....they seem to lack the development or engagement with regards to design. In other words, possibly, just possibly (speculation here) the influx of knowledge given - which is fantastic and well done - did not give students the opportunity of exploration in design which is also key to (I believe) generating "good" architecture. (** note this is my belief, you may not agree).
Therefore, I don't suggest that students, as you said, go about and stick their heads in "fancy books and lectures from 'starchitects'" yet more along the lines of there being a true balance to this formal education. Do you understand what I am expressing? yes you are right, a professor can only do so much to teach you what design is, however, isn't it the job of the school/professor to also engage the student beyond and expose to possibilities that are abound? And one should raise the question that comes with this, which is: Is there enough time to be able all these functional aspects, AND still be able to learn about 'good design' and apply it??
I do wonder!
One last bit....not all schools can give you this. It is one's own thirst for it which takes you beyond, but as a student, you also need (at times) a slight bump towards seeing new ways/new applications/new ideas/new design.
my $.02 cents.
(hope this helped)
sorry about the grammatical miscues! But I feel you'll be able to complete the thoughts. Again sorry!
sorry just to clear up confusion it is the SLO campus
Squirrelly, I think you analysis is probably correct in that the people you know. Each individual has their own strengths and weaknesses. I happened to follow the same route that youngun is describing and had a good experience at SLO. I interned at Morphosis out of school, and now are an associate for Brian Healy Architects. Not that this is a great accomplishment, I just consider both to be very design oriented and SLO was one of the reasons I got those jobs and have done well.
As in any school there are strong designers and weak ones. It is just the way it is. SLO, with the path that I took, gave me the opportunity and freedom to engage in what you term "development or engagement with regards to design". Ultimately it is up to the student to get the most out of their education. SLO give you the opportunity, just as UC does. It matters what you do with it. Good luck with your decision.
Absolutely right dierxap.
I suppose that many students of architecture just really need to be more mature or at least mature in their decision making, as this decision is quite a major one.
It is UP TO THE STUDENT, however many of my former classmates (in undergrad) had no clue, I mean NO CLUE what the f**K they wanted. They because they (to use a comment in another post - paraphrasing) "are the rats that are bringing down the ship". Basically, there should be a definite interview format to acquire which are the students which would be best suited for the program and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
Youngun.....Best wishes. And make sure you do make the very best of your education, because if it's not what you want later, you will only have yourself to look at in the mirror and possibly blame. So take all opportunities and enjoy.
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! california is already overcrowded with cowpokes from the sticks of the midwest. they don't need another starstruck wannabe compeating for few jobs at Thom's or Frank's....
tk! I am NOT a cowpoke.
Just for that, I'm moving to California! Humph.
what, you didn't go cow tipping at UC????
haha i have seen how overcrowded it is there...
but just to let you guys know i spent a whole day researching and just thinking about it and decided to go to UC. i will be on the cincinnatus scholarship and am very excited to be a part of that campus.
thank you very much for all of your comments and help i really appreciate it...
now i can slack off for the rest of senior year! ;)
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