non uncommon. and whether it's a problem depends. what kind/scale of work? is this someone passing as licensed?

NOT uncommon, i mean.

is this someone passing as licensed?

yes and no. sells himself as licensed and unsuspecting people buy it. i, on the other hand, found him dubious, which is how i found out he was a fraud.

this is really common? why am i taking the exams?

in L.A. you can practice as long as you don't represent yourself as an architect...there is such an application under owner/builder for projects not requiring engineering calculations and such (type V)...

Definitely represents himself as an architect. In fact, brags about it. I think that's why it urks me. I mean, really, if you're gonna be a fake, at the very least keep a low profile.

Practically, I don't think it'll be a problem. Ethically is another matter.

I won't name names, but I know of one internationally renowned firm at least where more than a third of the architects don't have a license. As long as there's someone above them who is, it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I would say it's unethical. I'm sure they might have reasons for not being licensed, but it risks undermining the safety of others and the intergrity of the profession should something go wrong.

you'll want to make sure what your state board's regs are on use of the title 'architect', but then:

depending how bad it gets to you, you could report him to the state board. but you better mean it. in some states if you've been passing as an architect without being registered, the state board will make sure that it's VERY difficult to ever get licensed.

just to be nice...if you do find his actions illegal according to your state board, give him a warning...if it continues then you could report...

First, are you sure he is not licensed? Just asking because I once saw a long thread on a similar topic on another website, in which the original poster ultimately decided to report the person to the state, and in the end it turned out that the "fraud" in question was in fact registered, but for one reason or another he just wasn't showing up on the state's site (either the accuser was not spelling the name right or the state hadn't updated their site.) In that case the accuser had made some assumptions - such as that since the person didn't have a professional degree he couldn't be licensed - that turned out to be incorrect for that state.

Also when I got registered it took about 5 months before my name showed up in my state's online registry, so if he became an architect recently then you wouldn't necessarily know it.

You can always contact the state board and ask. You can even turn him in if you like - though most states won't take action unless there is written documentation (things like a business card with "architect" on it, a website that represents him as an architect, a drawing title block with "architect" - and in some states even "architectural" - on it, etc.)

There are some states that are ok with someone calling himself an architect in some situations, if he's licensed in another state - for example in a faculty bio or some other non-practicing situation. Some other states aren't ok with that.

Most states (all but one or two) allow unlicensed people to design and do construction documents for residential projects (sometimes under a certain square footage), though calling yourself "architect" isn't allowed. Some states allow unlicensed designers to complete some larger project types as well. In my state 2- and 3-story retail, multi-family housing, non-hazardous storage, office, and some other commercial projects can be done with no license, at the discretion of the local building inspectors...

Anyway, you can report him if you want to. Some states are very aggressive in fining people who misrepresent themselves (California for example has a list of hundreds of people it has taken action against for calling themselves "architect" when they're not licensed. But some other states rarely do anything beyond sending a warning (if you check the minutes of various boards or the disciplinary actions on their sites, you'll see that some take action on only 1 or 2 cases over the course of several years.

interesting points. i think this person knows he is a fraud. i'm not as interested in turning him in as much as figuring out what the fuck is wrong with people. seriously, you go thru five years of torture in school, work for pennies for three and a half years, and pray you'll pass your exams. then you find people who just state they're an architect b/c its easier and they get off on being arty. i just think it's wrong and a clear reflection of incompetence.

when i finally pass my exams, i'm gonna call myself a neurosurgeon and make a lot of money.

just get your builders license..... 2 million of insurance is about 800 a year

:

dirka thats a good point...I am not sure we need Pink Floyd Lyrics to impriove the post, or whatever that is, but anyway...I have a small Residential Design Company. This has taought me to haI always tell people I am not an Architect, but I do exactly the same stiff as all of them. ...I can see you point , if you offended that some guy is a poseur, or in this case if he really is a flat out liar, but for the most part a lot of smaller projects can be done with a good engineer and a builders liability. I am trying to become an Architect as well, all teh whiel holding a snese of cynicism for what essentially just looks like construction sciences. S

dirka thats a good point...I am not sure we need Pink Floyd Lyrics to impriove the post, or whatever that is, but anyway...I have a small Residential Design Company. This has taought me to haI always tell people I am not an Architect, but I do exactly the same stiff as all of them. ...I can see you point , if you offended that some guy is a poseur, or in this case if he really is a flat out liar, but for the most part a lot of smaller projects can be done with a good engineer and a builders liability. I am trying to become an Architect as well, all teh whiel holding a snese of cynicism for what essentially just looks like construction sciences. S

pet shop boys...fyi

SORRY ABOUT THE MESSY POST....my keyboard is haunted, and I didn;t get a chance to edit that ...but yeah, anyway, I feel there are layers to the whole construction/ design realm that people hover in and pretend to be something more than they are...and conversely, alot of people go around with licenses but are not even real Architects in the purest sense of the word. I think there is a new paradigm emerging in the feild ..and it has something to do with re-designating the word people accepts, Architect!, to a less heroic level. Some call it a crisis, but if all a person is doing is catering to a client , making money, and designing free market, code-guided predicta-buildings, then how are they nobel enough to call them selves the A-word,...maybe while we are defending the profession from the shortcutters, we should also call out the licensed Archi-crats for they what they are as well. Bump em down to developers or something.LOL

Until , I get licensed, I 'll remain honest, but I am still cynical about many so called Licensed Architects I meet.

what is the liability costs for a licensed arch?..... i heard it was around 5-10,000 a year...did i hear wrong?......

if you just do small projects, get a builders license and insurance and have a design company and then let the build company take the liability...... you dont really need to have a crew...just sub out all the work.... but if you do plan to go the build route.... have 2-3 guys that can do alot of carpentry and the hard labor parts...... this way you sort of have a better control on minor changes/etc... plus you'll keep more cash in your pocket........

i sort of wish i had a crew and did design/build projects..... but it was rough just trying to get work.....

:

it is the problem of the people who hire these frauds as much as the frauds themselves...if you're gonna be spending 200 thousand dollars on a house remodel or whatever, then check for yourself...don't take the frauds words for it...

being victimized is avoidable in this case...

I came on here to say that, too. But to add--just to be clear--"calling yourself 'architect'" doesn't just mean saying, "yeah, I'm an architect" at a party--it means actually representing yourself as an architect in a contractual arrangement with someone else; providing services for which you label yourself in written form as an architect; faking a stamp; putting "architect" on your titleblock; etcetera. At least in the states I'm familiar with. As far as I know, just referring to yourself as an "architect" is not a crime. Unless it is on a business card, or on a fake license on the wall, or whatever.

actually, those lyrics do improve the thread...

which explains bloopox's statement:

"though most states won't take action unless there is written documentation (things like a business card with "architect" on it, a website that represents him as an architect, a drawing title block with "architect" - and in some states even "architectural" - on it, etc.)"

Well, it's not just that they "won't take action until", it's that there literally isn't a transgression until those things occur.

I just didn't think it was clear enough. Perhaps I'm repeating, oh well.

it's cool...

:) maybe it's just late and I should be in bed and I'm rambling instead. I'm sorry. good night.

i didn't think you were rambling...

is Brad pitt licensed ?..if he's not , heck Im cancelling my registration.

pretty sure pitt is licensed to do just about whatever he wants. :-)

should i just let this blow over? should i do something about it? i don't think i owe this guy any fair warning. i don't think i need to be the talent police either. i think it's just a pathetic thing to do.

as far as i know in my state, the principals of a firm must all be licensed and this poser has business cards that clearly state he is a principal of the firm. dumb arty business cards, no less. i doubt he uses a fake stamp, but probably has his partner - a real architect - stamp drawings. in addition to being a fraud to clients, he has about ten interns in the office. i'm sure the other principal will sign IDP docs, but is it fair to subject interns to someone who can't pass their exams? isn't interning suppose to be about learning from someone "in the know"?

appreciate your comments....

In some states, there is electronic access to Professional Registration Information. Just be sure you are looking up the right guy or Corporation.

it's not me is it?

ArchJJ
It was bugging me that no one was more adamant that you nail this guy, but your last post changes everything!

As long as there's a licenced architect in the firm (doesn't generally need to be every principal), then they've done nothing wrong, unless his card says 'Architect' (specifically referenced to him as an individual).

Each jurisdication is a bit different, of course, so your mileage may vary.

law in my state says each principal of the firm must be licensed to practice. business cards don't say RA, but most, if not all, press releases refer to him as an architect. website is more vague...wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even graduate from an accredited program. have heard him tell people he is an architect. i think the RA of the firm can also get in trouble - at least in my state - for enabling someone to practice without a license.

Laws in many states say that two thirds of principals must be registered, though some states have exceptions for firms with two principals, in which case only one needs to be registered. There are some other states where none of the principals need to be registered, as long as they employ someone registered. Massachusetts for example doesn't require architecture firms to be owned by architects, which is why Machado and Silvetti can have an architecture firm there though neither is registered...

Myriam is correct that some transgression would need to have occurred for the state to pursue the matter. But the states have different rules as to what constitutes a transgression. For instance California, the most rule-crazy of the boards, has fined people who had their "architect" business cards printed while they were waiting for their license paperwork to be processed, and people who put "architect" on their resume for purposes of seeking a job, when they were actually licensed only in another state...
Some other states are really at the opposite extreme (Maryland would be an example) with only one or two "actions" taken ever, and only for extremely serious issues...

dirka: the cost of insurance varies dependent on many factors - from how many years of experience you have to how many licensed and unlicensed people you employ, to where you practice and what types of projects you do. Even having "too many" employees with specialized credentials (such as LEED) can raise your rates because it raises your expected "standard of care"... In general - assuming you haven't been sued recently and you're not doing condos or healthcare - you can get 250k of coverage for as little $2000 or maybe less. But, to qualify for most municipal or institutional sorts of projects you usually need 1 million in coverage, which is generally in the 8k to 10k range for a small firm. For some smaller projects you might only need 500k, which could cost anywhere from 3k to 6k.

Interesting.
If it's not just a case of semantics, then I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty about advising the state board of the infraction.
Of course, you could also see some backlash.
I've seen more fuss made out of less of an infraction, by the way.

There doesn't have to be any backlash, because you can make reports anonymously to most of the boards. Some of them even have forms online for doing this.
I've read my state's board minutes and I see that they send out warning letters every couple of months - usually to things like drafting services and millwork companies using "architectural" in their company names and to firms calling interns "project architects" in marketing materials and such - and sometimes they send second and third warnings months or years later. But they tend never to take any further action in these matters. (Their real time seems to be taken up with investigating reports of incompetence by actual licensed architects, and cross-examining and sanctioning them.) So I'd say check out your state's history and consider whether it's likely that anything at all will happen. Then proceed accordingly.

I forgot, why do you hate this guy so much again. Did he take your client or something? It is noble to defend the honor of the profession and all that, but there are alot problems and injustices in the world of design , look at the .....

You seem to be missing the point, FormFunction.

Without regard to your suggestion of global design injustices or whether the unlicensed practioner took someone's client, practicing w/out a license it itself serious enough. Given the legal hoops we all must continue to jump through, no individual can be allowed to urinate on the process and be granted a bye, thank you.

The legal follow-through is already arbitrary enough, so please don't bolster any further wishy washiness.

Someone better tell Tadao Ando to stop working.

Add Carlos Jimenez and many other big names as well.

Its probably best Tadao Ando keeps working.

Even though he wasn't formally trained, he apprenticed under architects and became licensed long long ago.

Just make 100% sure that this person is really not registered, before you do anything. You do seem pretty sure, but you haven't stated how you know.

A couple years ago I was at a meeting about a new city building, and I put my name on the list to speak so I could ask some questions and make some comments about the project, because the project is going to be built within view of my house. Suddenly this guy in the audience starts interrupting me repeatedly to disagree, so I stop and say "go ahead and finish making your point". He starts off with "well I'm an architect, so I have a unique perspective here and a better understanding of the issues..."
When he finished I started back in with "I'm also an architect, and yet I disagree about some of those issues..."
After the meeting this guy comes up to me, in earshot of a whole crowd of people from the neighborhood, and says "you know, it's illegal to identify yourself as an architect when you're not licensed". I'm assuming he made his judgement based on my apparent age. I politely assured him I knew that but not to worry, because I am licensed. I gave him my card (my cards are embossed with my stamp). My neighbors laughed at him, and I'm sure his attitude just reinforced people's ideas about the arrogance and bluster of architects. He got red and puffy and mumbled that he'd "see about that with the state". I'm sure that if he did check with the state he was very disappointed to find out I'm legit.

So just be sure, before you waste time and/or create a scene or even just a hassle for this person.

Sorry Rim joist, I am just playing devils advocate...I understand this is a professional forum, All you Licensed guys have a Right to string this guy up because he didn't jump through those difficult hoops....but I just wondered if there was a personal aspect or if ArchJJ was acting on principle. I am sure when I finally get licensed , I 'll be uppity about cheaters too..(yet for now I am uppity about how lame the large amounts of the industry is, in general.)
Plus, I am not the only on here that notices a stratum professional practitioners,...some not so licensed.

anyway, Carry on with the with witchhunt , I'll stay out of it.

I'll play along with that. The harm is does is that it damages the name of 'Architect'. When a client gets shitty service, they start saying that architects are useless, overpaid, and not worth working with. When that shitty service comes from someone passing themselves off as an architect but who is in fact unlicensed, the profession recieves undue censure and damage to its reputation.

Two fellows in my town work as house designers and do just fine, always making at least 10% of Construction value and sometimes more, doing nothing but high end residential. Over the years the rarified air of super high end residential ( the kind most architects don't want to touch and get made fun of in this web site ) make a disgusting high profile and fee.

But then they have to live with themselves.

"When a client gets shitty service, they start saying that architects are useless, overpaid, and not worth working with. When that shitty service comes from someone passing themselves off as an architect but who is in fact unlicensed, the profession recieves undue censure and damage to its reputation"

and when the shitty service comes from a licensed architect?

here here, at least somebody is game!

Not being licensed =/= not being "in the know".

I'm all for licensure, personally, but it's idiotic to think that an intern can't learn from someone who doesn't happen to hold a license. This guy might be the best architect in the world. He also might suck and be a danger to the public--without a license there's no complete guarantee he's not--hell, even *with* a license there *still* is no complete guarantee he's not. However, it's up to the intern to decide if they want to be there and learn from him. And if there's another partner they are also working under who can stamp their drawings, then why are you so stressed about this?

Chill out, yo.

Good ol' archinectors...witch hunt, indeed.

1- I don't hate the guy. I think he's a bit of a loser and not the best designer, but I really don't care enough about him to actually hate him.

2- I learned this "architect" was not an architect b/c I went online and looked up his name. In my state there is a website to do this. I looked him up b/c his work was curiously weak and there was something about him that was strangely dubious. I posted here b/c I wanted to know if this was common. Apparently it is. If I was set on turning him in, I would have done so already.

3- The reason why I mentioned interns was b/c I think interns are already exploited enough. I doubt the interns in his office are aware that one of the principals is not licensed if it's not common knowledge. If he was forthcoming about that and the interns stayed on, so be it.

I do think I would like to create a scene, one way or another. I'm really very good at it. "Motherf#####g fraud!" I could use props... fire...small animals.....

Well, why didn't you say you are doing it for the interns!!!!, then I am in afterall... I bet they think he is going to sign off there IDP!?!, but lttle do they knoe he is a fake!). I'll get my stones.

If you get shitty service from a licensed architect then, depending on the type and seriousness of the problem, you have some recourse with the state board. That's one of the reasons for licensing. If your architect doesn't adhere to the terms of the contract, or he provides construction documents that result in an unsafe, unbuildable, or seriously defective product, you can (in addition to taking civil action) report him to the board. Much of the boards' business is dealing with these types of issues. Reading through board minutes there are usually more ongoing cases involving cases of incompetence and defective buildings (incorrectly detailed windows that make popping noises, sunrooms with vaulted ceilings that begin to spread and sag, woefully incomplete/inadequate drawing sets, breach of contract issues, etc.) than issues involving imposter-architects and what to call interns. The boards do impose substantial fines (sometimes in the tens of thousands of dollars), suspend licenses, etc. More importantly, someone licensed is expected to uphold a certain "standard of care", which makes it much easier to show incompetence and find against the architect in court (hence the need for liability insurance.) It can be difficult to get a judgement against someone unlicensed, since the standard of care is very difficult to define in that case...

The whole licensing process is supposed to be an initial quality control mechanism. But it does not stop there. With a licensed architect (or any other profession that requires licensing or certification) there is supposed to be some assurance of ongoing regulation, adherence to statutes governing that category of license, etc. With someone unlicensed there are not standards or supervision...

wait, why are the interns screwed if they are working under a licensed partner? i'm lost