Hi, I'm new here. My name is Rowena and I go to NJIT in Newark. I'm thinking about going into architecture but a lot of people are advising me against it because they say it's harder for women to get into the field. Can anybody help me with this? It's either architecture or finance, and finance bores me to tears.
seriously? why would you listen to these people who are telling you it is "harder"? it is hard no matter what gender you are, you just have to prove yourself. wouldn't you rather be challenged than bored?
From my experience being a woman is really no disadvantage at all. Most schools have a 50/50 split or close and my year group had a female majority for most years.
There is a lot of press on how Zaha Hadid is the only really successful female architect but don't believe it. If you consider how long it takes to reach the pinacle of your career in architecture and the fact that gender inequality in wider society was prevalent up until quite recently (relatively speaking), the equality in today's climate will take a few years to filter through to that level.
The biggest disability that I can see so far in architecture is for people without much money. I've seen a lot of students seduce tutors with ridiculously expensive models etc, and once you get into the profession I think it only gets worse. If you want to make it on your own it's worth remembering that, though architecture has a lot of the merits of the art world, it's much cheaper to make an image than it is a building. Most of today's successful architects had a very solid financial foundation to build on (excuse the pun), Zaha included. This is perhaps less likely to change, as it's not really discrimination, just simple economics.
i keep starting to respond then think i'm sounding too bitchy but i can't not. i'm suprised, and a little apalled that 1) people would say that and 2) someone would actually listen. of course some men in this profession don't think women should be doing this work, but is there a profession that DOESN'T have these men? (No men, I'm not bagging on you so please don't take offense to this).
I've been in this business for about 9 years now, a fair amount of that time on construction sites, and until now, all of my bosses have been male, but only once have i ever felt like there was a problem w/ being female, but it's not personal, and it didn't stop me from moving forward in my career, i just changed teams, just like if there was a problem for my boss for any other reason.
if you go in to this (which if it's what you want to do you should) YOU'LL CAUSE NOTHING BUT ISSUES FOR YOURSELF IF YOU THINK OF THIS PROFESSION AS A MALE/FEMALE THING. forget about it. this whole issue is just shit and you thinking about what sex you are shouldn't even be a consideration.
re: women architects + success... look up the following
maryann thompson
liz diller
eileen gray
ray eames
hariri + hariri
billy tsien
kazuyo seijima
marion weiss
paulett taggart
patricia patkau
gae aulenti
merrill elam
rebecca chestnutt
denise scott brown
maya lin
julia morgan
ann beha
jane weinzapfel
stephanie forsythe
lisa ann couture
julie eizenberg
donna dunay
kathryn gustafson
martha schwartz
liz plater-zyberk
brigitte shim
alison smithson
anne tyng
carme pinos
lisbeth van der pol
zoka zola
benedatta tagliabue
annette gigon
lindy roy
laurie hawkinson
nathalie de vries
louis hutton
monica ponce de leon
toshiko mori
caroline bos
yui tezuka
annie han
andrea leers
mimi hoang
anne lacatan
marie claude betrix
ada tolla
stephanie robb
gwynne pugh
amanda levete
silvia gmuer
not to be blunt, but consider a few things:
if someone told you that women were at a disadvantage in another field you were considering, would you be concerned? i could see this being said about almost any field. statistically, women in the US still make around 75% less than men do. doesn't not working in the field just exacerbate the problem?
why would you consider an occupation that "bores you to tears"?
issues to consider with architecture:
lifestyle/work hours
salary
amount of schooling
not just amount of schooling, but lack of a paycheck after all those years of education. in architecture the more you study the more you owe and the less you know...
gender is not an issue. all architects are hermaphrodites. that's why we have all those social issues...
That's absolutely ridiculous. If anything, I get more breaks in the profession (among contractors) because I'm a woman! Libertybell has also commented on this phenomenon before--because contractors meet so few women who know anything about construction, they get alllll excited when you show you know the tiniest bit, and they tend to be more willing to bend over backwards to impress you. They also tend to be more forgiving when you *don't* know something.
In school, well, there just isn't any disadvantage at all. You'll come across the occasional misogynist, just as you will at any point in your life. You'll also come across the occasional person who prefers women to men (anti-misogynist? is there a word for that?) and get a bit of a boost from it.
How stupid of people to say that to you. I can't think of anything more depressing that dream-squashers. Tell these people that just because they are miserable that they aren't following their dreams, they shouldn't try to dissuade you from yours.
julie snow. frances halsband. denise scott-brown. liz diller. jeanne gang. ray eames. charlotte perriand. zaha hadid. monica ponce de leon. lise anne couture. sheila kennedy.
we can see by your nom de plume your disdain for "the greener" art!
i hold [some] landscape architects in as high regard as [some] architects. i went to school with several people that switched between the two, or went to the other for grad school. when i was in germany/switzerland, i was heavily influenced by the work of dieter kienast and vogt landscaft architekten.
gustafson's firm employs architects as well. and yeah, maya lin has a landscape art fetish.
though i will agree with you on NJIT- though i do believe it is better than it was...
oh, and i am looking forward to the opening of weiss/manfredi's olympic sculpture park in seattle.
Incidentally, it's not that women make 75% less than men do, it's that women make 75% of what men make. And it's actually closer to 77%, which is the best it's ever been.
At least we're not female architects in the 50's....it was about 58% back then.
Riknight, I think you have heard good advice and opinions from everyone here already, so I won't repeat too much of it.
All professional fields that require a strong commitment and hard work are harder on women in one way: women tend to be the ones who stop working for awhile when they give birth, and giving birth often comes right at a time in their careers when women are just starting to gain enough experience that they can move up the ranks of responsibility. But that's definitely not the case for everyone: I got licensed and was a project manager before having kids, and now that I'm a mom I'm self-employed.
Personally I have found that being a woman has helped me, for the reasons myriam iterates above, and also because so much of my professional experience has been for clients who require a lot of listening, hand-holding and personal attention, which is something I am good at, perhaps because I'm a woman (though some women suck at it and some men excel at it).
Don't let anyone stop you "because you're a woman" but do go into architecture with your eyes wide open: it is an extremely demanding field with minimal monetary rewards, though sometimes huge emotional rewards. Good luck.
Sarcasm and irony sometimes get lost in the translation - I have yet to work on a project (landscape/planning/architecture) that doesn't chop down a few trees - even at the most ecologically sensitive firms -hence my nome de 'nect
Thanks for teaching me the german/swiss(?) term for trees=holz.
If you're in seattle currently, I have some classmates in that town that you should get to know. drop me an email and I'll make the introductions... Welcome to the 'scape side of the 'nect.
Question.
Hi, I'm new here. My name is Rowena and I go to NJIT in Newark. I'm thinking about going into architecture but a lot of people are advising me against it because they say it's harder for women to get into the field. Can anybody help me with this? It's either architecture or finance, and finance bores me to tears.
seriously? why would you listen to these people who are telling you it is "harder"? it is hard no matter what gender you are, you just have to prove yourself. wouldn't you rather be challenged than bored?
search: "women at a 'natural' disadvantage"...
From my experience being a woman is really no disadvantage at all. Most schools have a 50/50 split or close and my year group had a female majority for most years.
There is a lot of press on how Zaha Hadid is the only really successful female architect but don't believe it. If you consider how long it takes to reach the pinacle of your career in architecture and the fact that gender inequality in wider society was prevalent up until quite recently (relatively speaking), the equality in today's climate will take a few years to filter through to that level.
The biggest disability that I can see so far in architecture is for people without much money. I've seen a lot of students seduce tutors with ridiculously expensive models etc, and once you get into the profession I think it only gets worse. If you want to make it on your own it's worth remembering that, though architecture has a lot of the merits of the art world, it's much cheaper to make an image than it is a building. Most of today's successful architects had a very solid financial foundation to build on (excuse the pun), Zaha included. This is perhaps less likely to change, as it's not really discrimination, just simple economics.
Architecture harder for women? Depends.
Please post a pic & your net worth bracket.
Riknight36,
i keep starting to respond then think i'm sounding too bitchy but i can't not. i'm suprised, and a little apalled that 1) people would say that and 2) someone would actually listen. of course some men in this profession don't think women should be doing this work, but is there a profession that DOESN'T have these men? (No men, I'm not bagging on you so please don't take offense to this).
I've been in this business for about 9 years now, a fair amount of that time on construction sites, and until now, all of my bosses have been male, but only once have i ever felt like there was a problem w/ being female, but it's not personal, and it didn't stop me from moving forward in my career, i just changed teams, just like if there was a problem for my boss for any other reason.
if you go in to this (which if it's what you want to do you should) YOU'LL CAUSE NOTHING BUT ISSUES FOR YOURSELF IF YOU THINK OF THIS PROFESSION AS A MALE/FEMALE THING. forget about it. this whole issue is just shit and you thinking about what sex you are shouldn't even be a consideration.
re: women architects + success... look up the following
maryann thompson
liz diller
eileen gray
ray eames
hariri + hariri
billy tsien
kazuyo seijima
marion weiss
paulett taggart
patricia patkau
gae aulenti
merrill elam
rebecca chestnutt
denise scott brown
maya lin
julia morgan
ann beha
jane weinzapfel
stephanie forsythe
lisa ann couture
julie eizenberg
donna dunay
kathryn gustafson
martha schwartz
liz plater-zyberk
brigitte shim
alison smithson
anne tyng
carme pinos
lisbeth van der pol
zoka zola
benedatta tagliabue
annette gigon
lindy roy
laurie hawkinson
nathalie de vries
louis hutton
monica ponce de leon
toshiko mori
caroline bos
yui tezuka
annie han
andrea leers
mimi hoang
anne lacatan
marie claude betrix
ada tolla
stephanie robb
gwynne pugh
amanda levete
silvia gmuer
oh, and liberty bell
Don't forget Laura Hartman...
Jeanne Gang
Carol Ross Barney
(you forgot liberty bell)
not to be blunt, but consider a few things:
if someone told you that women were at a disadvantage in another field you were considering, would you be concerned? i could see this being said about almost any field. statistically, women in the US still make around 75% less than men do. doesn't not working in the field just exacerbate the problem?
why would you consider an occupation that "bores you to tears"?
issues to consider with architecture:
lifestyle/work hours
salary
amount of schooling
not just amount of schooling, but lack of a paycheck after all those years of education. in architecture the more you study the more you owe and the less you know...
gender is not an issue. all architects are hermaphrodites. that's why we have all those social issues...
That's absolutely ridiculous. If anything, I get more breaks in the profession (among contractors) because I'm a woman! Libertybell has also commented on this phenomenon before--because contractors meet so few women who know anything about construction, they get alllll excited when you show you know the tiniest bit, and they tend to be more willing to bend over backwards to impress you. They also tend to be more forgiving when you *don't* know something.
In school, well, there just isn't any disadvantage at all. You'll come across the occasional misogynist, just as you will at any point in your life. You'll also come across the occasional person who prefers women to men (anti-misogynist? is there a word for that?) and get a bit of a boost from it.
How stupid of people to say that to you. I can't think of anything more depressing that dream-squashers. Tell these people that just because they are miserable that they aren't following their dreams, they shouldn't try to dissuade you from yours.
Actually, aren't women "at a disadvantage" in finance? I don't see many female CEOs...
The same (stupid) comment could be made about ANY field!!!!
My only offense with that great list of women in architecture is that there are a few landscape architects mixed in...
kathryn gustafson
martha schwartz
caroline bos
are all practitioners of the greener art.
marion weiss sits on both sides of the fence (but call herself architect)
&
Maya Lin is an artist trained as an architect
Rowena- welcome to archinect. Your only true disadvantage may be going to NJIT (Beta, please don't hurt me for saying thing!) ;-)
julie snow. frances halsband. denise scott-brown. liz diller. jeanne gang. ray eames. charlotte perriand. zaha hadid. monica ponce de leon. lise anne couture. sheila kennedy.
...and liberty bell!
holzkiller -
we can see by your nom de plume your disdain for "the greener" art!
i hold [some] landscape architects in as high regard as [some] architects. i went to school with several people that switched between the two, or went to the other for grad school. when i was in germany/switzerland, i was heavily influenced by the work of dieter kienast and vogt landscaft architekten.
gustafson's firm employs architects as well. and yeah, maya lin has a landscape art fetish.
though i will agree with you on NJIT- though i do believe it is better than it was...
oh, and i am looking forward to the opening of weiss/manfredi's olympic sculpture park in seattle.
*landschaft. scheisse.
petra blaisse
girls are weak
throw them in the creek
boys are strong
like king kong
neener neener neener...
(architecture's just better than finance. isn't that all there is to it?)
ACfA>
Incidentally, it's not that women make 75% less than men do, it's that women make 75% of what men make. And it's actually closer to 77%, which is the best it's ever been.
At least we're not female architects in the 50's....it was about 58% back then.
PS. .....and liberty bell :o)
Riknight, I think you have heard good advice and opinions from everyone here already, so I won't repeat too much of it.
All professional fields that require a strong commitment and hard work are harder on women in one way: women tend to be the ones who stop working for awhile when they give birth, and giving birth often comes right at a time in their careers when women are just starting to gain enough experience that they can move up the ranks of responsibility. But that's definitely not the case for everyone: I got licensed and was a project manager before having kids, and now that I'm a mom I'm self-employed.
Personally I have found that being a woman has helped me, for the reasons myriam iterates above, and also because so much of my professional experience has been for clients who require a lot of listening, hand-holding and personal attention, which is something I am good at, perhaps because I'm a woman (though some women suck at it and some men excel at it).
Don't let anyone stop you "because you're a woman" but do go into architecture with your eyes wide open: it is an extremely demanding field with minimal monetary rewards, though sometimes huge emotional rewards. Good luck.
PS ChAOS you don't sound bitchy, just truthful.
Oh, and don't forget liberty bell.
holz.B-
Sarcasm and irony sometimes get lost in the translation - I have yet to work on a project (landscape/planning/architecture) that doesn't chop down a few trees - even at the most ecologically sensitive firms -hence my nome de 'nect
Thanks for teaching me the german/swiss(?) term for trees=holz.
If you're in seattle currently, I have some classmates in that town that you should get to know. drop me an email and I'll make the introductions... Welcome to the 'scape side of the 'nect.
for the record, tree is baum, wood is holz, but baumkiller or baummoerder looked weak.
and yeah, i was being a little ironical.
baummoerder is an awesome name.
architecture IS finance.
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