Anyone out there that can give me pricing info on the following:
AutoCad 2007
AutoCad LT
Vectorworks 12.5
FormZ
I'm in the process of researching software for my firm (high-end residential and multi-family) and trying to get the best bang for the buck.
I've been an AutoCad user since R12, and a FormZ user since the mid 90s, with some MicroStation for a couple years (hated it). I have zero experience with Vectorworks, but I hear that it's very intuitive and would be well suited for firms specializing in residential.
I have seen demonstrations of both Vectorworks and Archicad and was a little put off by the UI - they seemed a little too cheap and chintzy and didn't seem like they had enough "balls" technically...
I prefer to keep my drafting files seperate from my model/rendering files - just for safety's sake...
Yes, I've been counting the minutes until somebody posted about using pirated software...
I used to work at a place that used a ton of pirated software and were paid a visit, got busted, and got hit with a hefty fine. Some were laid off to cover the bill. Not cool.
I find it hard to believe that programmers don't write in some bit of code that alerts the company that their software is being installed. Most software you install nowadays automatically connects to the Internet to register...
If I'm starting my own office, I'd like to be legit from the get-go and not have to worry about Agent Smith knocking on my door...
Any real insight out there or should I continue reading all the "your grad school sucks" and "Mac vs. PC" threads?
Why do you think legit software costs so much? Theft drives the price up... I'm guessing that the software companies figure that for every one legit copy they sell, there's about 10 bootlegs created. They gotta pay their workers somehow, why not gouge the guys that play by the rules?
I'm thinking it's just a matter of time before open-source CAD starts to show up (think Sketch-up, Firefox, etc) and shake up the CAD industry...
Vectorworks is about $1000 for the first seat (that's for Vectorworks Architect. The regular version is only about $700, but doesn't have as many features for notating drawings, linking notes, redlining, etc. and offers much more limited wall types and symbol libraries and such.) Additional seats are about 30% less. I much prefer both Vectorworks and ArchiCAD to AutoCAD. I don't find them "cheap and chintzy". The student version of Vectorworks is about half the price, and completely identical to the pro version.
ArchiCAD is much more expensive - something like 3k to 6k per station depending on the version. The student edition is very inexpensive but it prints a watermark all over everything and the files are not compatible with regular ArchiCAD files.
FormZ is anywhere from about $1300 for the version without Renderzone or Radiozity, up to $2300 for Radiozity. Academic versions are about half the price. There's also a type of student license that is only a few hundred dollars but won't work after 6 months or a year. I think you have to be enrolled in a school that participates in the FormZ joint study to get that type of license.
Did you switch from AutoCad to Vectorworks? What kind of annoyances did you experience in the switchover?
I'm very weary of the whole BIM thing. It seems like BIM is much better suited for firms that churn out stagnant work and less suited for rigorous custom design and detailing...
We didn't switch from AutoCAD. I've worked in various firms using a lot of different software, but almost all stuck with whatever they started with when they first "computerized". In firms where I've used VectorWorks and ArchiCAD we've used them almost purely for 2D drawings - so even though both have BIM capability that's not how we utilized them. Neither has caused any difficulties at all for completing construction drawings. I do think that using the walls, with parametric doors, windows, and other symbols is really useful in both...
Switching over from one software to another can cause a lot of headaches. I've only been in one firm that undertook that, and it was because what they were previously using was a software that is more or less obsolete, so it was clear they weren't going to be able to keep upgrading much longer or get tech support. The biggest problems were really not with limitations of the new software or in translating old files to the new software - but more with people being flexible and open-minded enough to learn a new way of working.
This was a task of mine at a firm where I ended up the IT guy. There are people you can call whose job it is to tell you how much software costs and then, if things work out, they'll sell it to you. Find those people. Get quotes! GO ACTION NOW!
I sometimes think that the software companies release cracks of their copies so that young people will become familiar with the products and then convince their bosses to purchase the latest releasees. If you didn't have the young kids learning all the new software illegally then people like my boss would still be using AutoCAD2000 and Viz4.
shit, people like your boss would probably still be using ink on mylar
the thing that bugs me about all the software technology that architects have invested in over the years is whether or not firms have done a good job of passing this expense on to the clients. supposedly all this cad technology allows us a faster turnaround for getting drawings/images/whatever to clients but i can't help but think that the financial investment (the cost of the cad license or licenses and the hardware which could easily run $5-10k per intern/drafter per 2-3 years) could be coming more out of the paychecks for the employee rather than additional billings for improved services to the client (who doubtless is now paying his mba's more because of the firm's improved productivity in bringing profitable projects to fruition)
ok, maybe that not such a great insight, it's pretty late here and i've been drinking again
there was a quote by an exec a few years ago that went something like "we don't care if people use cracked versions, just as long as it's our software"
No one would ever learn programs like Maya of Max for architecture! Hmmm, maybe that would be a good thing
Does anyone know what are the limitations of the personal learning version of Maya 7 that is currently being offered for free?? Like, can you not save anything or something silly like that?
Having used all of the above except ArchiCad in offices, I can say that I would use VectorWorks (or ArchiCad, if I could afford it) in a firm doing small high-end residential. At first, coming from AutoCad, you'll be pissed that the key commands are seemingly clunky and that, like Adobe Illustrator or other vector-based programs, you end up just using the mouse for most things instead of commands--but pretty soon you'll be just as speedy at that and it seems more intuitively matched for the way high end residential projects are detailled. It's hard to explain, really, but it just works better for the design process.
I personally didn't like the "walls" and "doors" BIM stuff built into VectorWorks--it just didn't work for the types of projects we were doing. On renovations in particular, every wall is a different thickness and every door is a different size or shape, and configuring the BIM info to reflect that just took too long and didn't pay off anyway. When you're doing a small high-end residence, you may only have like 15 doors anyway, so what's the point of going through all the extra BIM hassle just so it can generate a boring-looking door schedule for you? That's what interns are for, anyway! ;) ...Kidding, but really, I don't think the extra up-front effort of the BIM stuff is really worth what you get in the end, on these types of projects. Better to just keep it simple and functional and stick to the straight 2D vector drafting, in my opinion.
wow miriam wrote that last comment on my birthday :-) yay
anyhow focus techno...I always like VectorWorks because of the very same thing he mentioned but found it easy to modify the BIM info (oxymoron) versus in AutoCAD where it forced you to nearly redo the entire process
Apr 2, 07 11:27 pm ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
price of software...
Anyone out there that can give me pricing info on the following:
AutoCad 2007
AutoCad LT
Vectorworks 12.5
FormZ
I'm in the process of researching software for my firm (high-end residential and multi-family) and trying to get the best bang for the buck.
I've been an AutoCad user since R12, and a FormZ user since the mid 90s, with some MicroStation for a couple years (hated it). I have zero experience with Vectorworks, but I hear that it's very intuitive and would be well suited for firms specializing in residential.
I have seen demonstrations of both Vectorworks and Archicad and was a little put off by the UI - they seemed a little too cheap and chintzy and didn't seem like they had enough "balls" technically...
I prefer to keep my drafting files seperate from my model/rendering files - just for safety's sake...
Mac or PC - doesn't matter to me.
Thanks for the help!
internet connection = $30 a month
oh shit, you mean you're supposed to pay for it?
ha ha ha, pay for software??? who does that!?
Yes, I've been counting the minutes until somebody posted about using pirated software...
I used to work at a place that used a ton of pirated software and were paid a visit, got busted, and got hit with a hefty fine. Some were laid off to cover the bill. Not cool.
I find it hard to believe that programmers don't write in some bit of code that alerts the company that their software is being installed. Most software you install nowadays automatically connects to the Internet to register...
If I'm starting my own office, I'd like to be legit from the get-go and not have to worry about Agent Smith knocking on my door...
Any real insight out there or should I continue reading all the "your grad school sucks" and "Mac vs. PC" threads?
can't you get a quotes from local software distributors...that's what we did when we went from pirate to legit...
maybe this will give you an idea:full version of autocad 2006 my office purchased this year was $3,595.00 + $595.00 for arch desktop
Is that per seat?
Thanks dammson - that's about the figure I was dreading...
Guess I'll have to sell my motorcycle and a kidney...
per seat, yeah...but the salesperson hooked us up with another activation so we can install it on another comp...
it's all a monopoly.....
if you really want it, u can get it........
how do you think the small offices start up..... bootleg man.... you think small offices can dish out 20-30,000 for programs in the beginning....
2:37am
Why do you think legit software costs so much? Theft drives the price up... I'm guessing that the software companies figure that for every one legit copy they sell, there's about 10 bootlegs created. They gotta pay their workers somehow, why not gouge the guys that play by the rules?
I'm thinking it's just a matter of time before open-source CAD starts to show up (think Sketch-up, Firefox, etc) and shake up the CAD industry...
Vectorworks is about $1000 for the first seat (that's for Vectorworks Architect. The regular version is only about $700, but doesn't have as many features for notating drawings, linking notes, redlining, etc. and offers much more limited wall types and symbol libraries and such.) Additional seats are about 30% less. I much prefer both Vectorworks and ArchiCAD to AutoCAD. I don't find them "cheap and chintzy". The student version of Vectorworks is about half the price, and completely identical to the pro version.
ArchiCAD is much more expensive - something like 3k to 6k per station depending on the version. The student edition is very inexpensive but it prints a watermark all over everything and the files are not compatible with regular ArchiCAD files.
FormZ is anywhere from about $1300 for the version without Renderzone or Radiozity, up to $2300 for Radiozity. Academic versions are about half the price. There's also a type of student license that is only a few hundred dollars but won't work after 6 months or a year. I think you have to be enrolled in a school that participates in the FormZ joint study to get that type of license.
Thanks Bloopox - exactly what I was looking for!
Did you switch from AutoCad to Vectorworks? What kind of annoyances did you experience in the switchover?
I'm very weary of the whole BIM thing. It seems like BIM is much better suited for firms that churn out stagnant work and less suited for rigorous custom design and detailing...
At the firm I am At we Paid almost 12 k, for 2 Licenses of Autodesk AutoCAD Revit series
We didn't switch from AutoCAD. I've worked in various firms using a lot of different software, but almost all stuck with whatever they started with when they first "computerized". In firms where I've used VectorWorks and ArchiCAD we've used them almost purely for 2D drawings - so even though both have BIM capability that's not how we utilized them. Neither has caused any difficulties at all for completing construction drawings. I do think that using the walls, with parametric doors, windows, and other symbols is really useful in both...
Switching over from one software to another can cause a lot of headaches. I've only been in one firm that undertook that, and it was because what they were previously using was a software that is more or less obsolete, so it was clear they weren't going to be able to keep upgrading much longer or get tech support. The biggest problems were really not with limitations of the new software or in translating old files to the new software - but more with people being flexible and open-minded enough to learn a new way of working.
you are lazy.
google the thing.
This was a task of mine at a firm where I ended up the IT guy. There are people you can call whose job it is to tell you how much software costs and then, if things work out, they'll sell it to you. Find those people. Get quotes! GO ACTION NOW!
$$$$ AutoCad 2007
$ AutoCad LT
$$ Vectorworks 12.5
$$$ FormZ
searching online - priceless
1 yr. academic license for FormZ is under a hundred dollars.
yeah dml955i...don't be lazy son...
I sometimes think that the software companies release cracks of their copies so that young people will become familiar with the products and then convince their bosses to purchase the latest releasees. If you didn't have the young kids learning all the new software illegally then people like my boss would still be using AutoCAD2000 and Viz4.
shit, people like your boss would probably still be using ink on mylar
the thing that bugs me about all the software technology that architects have invested in over the years is whether or not firms have done a good job of passing this expense on to the clients. supposedly all this cad technology allows us a faster turnaround for getting drawings/images/whatever to clients but i can't help but think that the financial investment (the cost of the cad license or licenses and the hardware which could easily run $5-10k per intern/drafter per 2-3 years) could be coming more out of the paychecks for the employee rather than additional billings for improved services to the client (who doubtless is now paying his mba's more because of the firm's improved productivity in bringing profitable projects to fruition)
ok, maybe that not such a great insight, it's pretty late here and i've been drinking again
there was a quote by an exec a few years ago that went something like "we don't care if people use cracked versions, just as long as it's our software"
No one would ever learn programs like Maya of Max for architecture! Hmmm, maybe that would be a good thing
Does anyone know what are the limitations of the personal learning version of Maya 7 that is currently being offered for free?? Like, can you not save anything or something silly like that?
the earlier versions had a big ugly water mark across the images, I think. I am sure there is something prohibitive like that.
Having used all of the above except ArchiCad in offices, I can say that I would use VectorWorks (or ArchiCad, if I could afford it) in a firm doing small high-end residential. At first, coming from AutoCad, you'll be pissed that the key commands are seemingly clunky and that, like Adobe Illustrator or other vector-based programs, you end up just using the mouse for most things instead of commands--but pretty soon you'll be just as speedy at that and it seems more intuitively matched for the way high end residential projects are detailled. It's hard to explain, really, but it just works better for the design process.
I personally didn't like the "walls" and "doors" BIM stuff built into VectorWorks--it just didn't work for the types of projects we were doing. On renovations in particular, every wall is a different thickness and every door is a different size or shape, and configuring the BIM info to reflect that just took too long and didn't pay off anyway. When you're doing a small high-end residence, you may only have like 15 doors anyway, so what's the point of going through all the extra BIM hassle just so it can generate a boring-looking door schedule for you? That's what interns are for, anyway! ;) ...Kidding, but really, I don't think the extra up-front effort of the BIM stuff is really worth what you get in the end, on these types of projects. Better to just keep it simple and functional and stick to the straight 2D vector drafting, in my opinion.
wow miriam wrote that last comment on my birthday :-) yay
anyhow focus techno...I always like VectorWorks because of the very same thing he mentioned but found it easy to modify the BIM info (oxymoron) versus in AutoCAD where it forced you to nearly redo the entire process
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.