p.s. is also seems totally random whether or not the blacks actually come out totally black or something lighter - i haven't changed any settings. i also haven't changed any settings on my font embedding options (i actually don't know where those options are) yet people who looked at earlier version now cannot open the new ones because of the unable to load embedded font error they get in acrobat.

one more update:

fonts embed fine using acrobat distiller (choosing "Adobe PDF" as the printer) but the problem occurs with embedding when instead of "printing" i choose "export" to PDF from the file menu.

Both of these methods, though, often randomly cause black things to show up dark grey. not all things though, just some things.

Another choice for fonts is to convert your text to objects. This makes every letter a polyline object, so you can never lose the font. The only danger is that you'll want to edit something, so don't do this until the very last minute, and always keep a version of the file with editable text onhand.

For color- select your text, double click on the black T in the color box, change the values to: C: 0%, M: 0%, Y: 0%, K: 100%. The computer will readjust, but it should at least make all your blacks the same black. I have no idea why this lightening of the blacks happens, but I get the same problem.

oh, and the converting to object thing also lets you kern your titles more easily.

rationalist - thanks for the response.

i'll try changing all my text to objects.

regarding blacks turning out grey, it wasn't text turning out grey. black rectangles (drawn in indesign) as well as the blacks on certain (but not all) placed JPEGs was turning out grey a lot of the time...while the other JPEGs are fine and the text is fine

To get a vibrant black on-screen make sure that you use "registration" instead of black. 100% K always looks a bit washed out to simulate the somewhat transparent nature of black ink used in process printing.

... but if you're printing, registration will come out muddy, because it will make black by overprinting all colours, not just using black.

Try opening your pdfs on another machine, or with another pdf program. Different programs display black with different intensities.

thanks for the ideas

i'm printing a booklet using Lulu...not printing on my own printer. Would 'registration' work for them?

when I print my stuff at home (on an inkjet) non-registration black is much less vibrant than registration--it's especially troublesome if you happen to have an image with solid black in it that's next to a black fill/stroke created in inDesign. they're both technically black, though there is a clear difference. I've found that changing the stroke/fill to registration fixes this problem. I've never noticed registration looking "muddy"--that could be an issue with the printer or the ink or the paper, or all of the above. Since Lulu is a PDF workflow--what you see in the PDF should be what you get on the print so if your blacks are slightly off onscreen, so will the blacks be on the print.

Will Lulu send you a proof of one page?

I don't think Lulu will send a proof page, but I can order a single copy of the booklet for like $8 to proof it so that's not bad...the only issue is that it would take longer to do that

So the 'registration' thing worked great for my rectangles I made in indesign, but what about the (full color) JPEGs that are placed in the document? They look a lot less black / less saturated on-screen in the PDF version than in the indesign source file!

-thanks

i came across the same problem a few days ago......click on RGB option when exporting as PDF.

axial-

thanks for the tip. changing it to RGB in the print settings for printing to the pdf distiller fixed the problems for some of the images! any ideas why a number of the images are still rather light/unconstrasty/unsaturated? also, will switching to RGB mode just coverup problems that are actually there, if Lulu will be printing this in CMYK anyways?

thanks!
-r

robust -

most of the time when exporting indesign or illustrator files to pdf, the colors are always slightly off.

switching the RGB option on isn't "fixing" any problems, but rather just exporting your files more accurately. please check all your images with pshop and illustrator. some black might appear to be black. after switching to RGB, i didn't find any problems at all on my 60 page portfolio.

i've never used LuLu before, and that i'm printing my portfolio using my own epson printer. please contact LuLu to see if you may specify to have it printed in RGB.

just print to pdf then send..... i found out that in cad when i export/import from ps or ai, i get issues.... just make a file of the pdf and reopen..... import/export sucks......... it's basically 2 programs trying to talk to each other in a different language........

just my experiences

2:37am

I'm no expert, but CMYK is for print, because printers use four-colour inks and additive colour-mixing. RGB is for on-screen output because displays use three colours and subtractive mixing.

You want to be using CMYK for the most predictable output. It uses black ink to print black images. If your image is RGB, its being converted by the printer to CMYK anyway, but with less predictable results. You want to use CMYK, especially if you are sending it away to get printed. That's what the pros do.

Of course, in the end, it comes down to what comes out the printer and whether you're happy with it.

sorry to keep harping on this but:

now my fonts are screwed up a bit. i don't know what the deal is. i'm printing to PDF from indesign and i tried it with an essay that i printed to PDF 4 months ago and now i tried to exact same essay from the exact same indesign file. back then, the text looked beautiful: nice, thin, clear, crisp. Now, the result text looks thicker, darker, bolder. The difference is obvious both on screen and when printed out.

I changed some of the font options before i did this, because Lulu said to make sure you have the PDF embed all the fonts. I don't see how this could have caused such a huge difference though.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
-R

sometimes this little tick a box causes lots of problems especially with a combination of eps and fonts.

Export>pdf
Preset>print (notsure about Lulu, but if printing at home for good stuff i use this. if i send to a pro printer i choose prepress.

on the side bar : general,compression,marks and bleeds etc choose compression.

Make sure compress text and line art is ticked.

Should fix immediate problems of black boxes etc and some font issues.

More intense fix for Font embedding.
Do a preflight, check the summary area for fonts.
make sure all fonts status are ok, and look for font to load into indesign if not. program will take you through.

then save the document normaly and try another export as pdf.

colour wise, you may be setting your PPD setting for a RGB printer at home, if you have a CMYK printer at home, switch settings, if you dont find a generic print set up for a Postcript/CMYK printer etc.

Doing the preflight will also show if you have any images that RGB instead of CMYK, and you can open and save them as CMYK and relink.

Any printing really should be done in CMYK set ups, and RGB for the web.

Good luck.

another indesign-->pdf issue. i have some semi-transparent images with text running underneath. within the indesign file, all the text is visible, but when i export to a pdf, there's one section of text that is completely opaque/covered up by the image on the pdf. has happened in previous pdf outputs, and only this particular section of text, none of the others.

also, had a mysterious line of text disappear from one of my captions after i exported to the pdf file. does anyone know how to get these lines of text back? thanks for any help!

Hmmmm. Tricky. You are exporting to PDF and not printing to one, right? InDesign freaks out if you try to print to a PDF.

What type of file is the transparent image? And how are you achieving the transparency? It has been my experience that 75% of problems that occur in printing or saving files has to do with color mode in the original files. Assuming you are using InDesign in the typical fashion, by linking to original artwork elsewhere, I would check the color mode of all of those files first and make sure they are all the same, if possible. Then go back and try it again. I think these color issues might have been touched on above but I didn't read the whole thread :o/

oh shit i did my portfolios in print to PDF because somehow the colors looked bad (unsaturated) when i exported to PDF. i get them back from the printer today... gotta send to Berkeley and UCLA tomorrow...they better not look bad!!! it's too late for mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if the program doesn't freak out when you actually print it, then you might be fine. It's been my experience that when I print to PDF (using the PDF995 function), it freaks out and/or doesn't work.

However, as a general rule, I avoid "printing" to PDF in any program that you can actually "save" to a PDF. Make sense?

Also, you should always do a test print rather than judge what's on the screen. Honestly you never know what you're going to get.

Interestingly, I did do a test print from Lulu with 2 version: one from print to PDF, and one from export. on screen, the export version fonts looked much more elegant but the images looked badly discolored / desaturated. interestingly, lulu printed both out exactly the same. weird. why is that?

they use a printer system that does its own color translation...its a fuji system I believe. This is the same many other places use, like some kinkos. This is also why they do not need cmyk specific color profiles because the colors go through processing on the printer anyway...I chose to just print my own so I could have more direct control...not enough time to go back and forth with a company in North Carolina...I wish new mexico had better printiong resources...but, this is the desert...aint a damn thing out here for commercial printing.

Do not rely on an in-rip color conversion. You will be getting an inferior product. Always convert your images for professional printshop output to CMYK in Photoshop. I mean always, always always. You will get better results every time.

On the subject of blacks, CMYK will naturally be more muted than RGB, so unless you are doing offset printing (which you wont be) your blacks will not be as sharp as on a home injet. They can bump the black ink levels in the printing but it will show in the final product as "glossy" areas on the page which looks strange to me.

Output from Indesign should be done as a "Vanilla" output. Dont mess with a single setting, that means NO downsampling, and NO compression or any color changes. Give your project 1/8" bleed on all sides as most printers you will encounter have about 1/16" creep which can screw you up on double sided printing. Techs at a good shop will take your PDF and insert it into another program for output, so registration and trim marks shouldn't be necessary unless they specify them.

Inside of InDesign you will want to make sure your transparency space is set to CMYK as well.

Then run a preflight and "package" the whole project, burn it and the pdf file you produce onto a DVD and deliver that. That way if they cant use for pdf for some reason they can at least output it to their liking from your project package folder. The fonts will be there too.

If you would like I can make a notation of my Indesign settings and post them later tonight.

hope that helps.

Moebius Color Services, San Diego California.
Cost: 250

5 portfolios full bleed excellent quality
12 pages front and back
laminated front and back cover
clear spiral binding.
turnaround including proofs 4 days.

do they do mail order?

as brer said.. always use for print images in cmyk mode. check all the images in photoshop and makes sure they are 300dpi.. cmyk.. what u c on screen isnt necesseary the same as print.. so if you are using 100% black even i fyou think your seeing it on screen little flat and not looking black black .. when printed it will be 100%.. cse colors are processed by printers as digital numbers.. so it cannot change.. (and in any case.. evthg affec tlaso colors not necessary the printers but also the quality of the paper and its grammage.. so if yu pritn the same pictre on a 70gm paper will look totally flat.. and not so clear but if you print the same file on a 90-100gm.. it will look than perfect..)

as for the fonts.. and exporting.. make sure when you do print to set up the properties of adobe pdf printer it is the same as doing preferences for any normal printer.. and when u open the pref. box check out : do not send fonts to printer.. in that way.. all fonts will be embedded and saved along the pdf...

also make sure that you choose a compatible version to all users while saving a pdf file .. not everybody has yet adobe 7 or 8 .. i recommand that you choose adobe pdf 4...

and for much better results.. if ur sending ur files to get printed professionaly and in a proffesional printer press or a bookshop.. save them as Postscript.. it will be much easier.. otherwise.. save them as high res pdf. (CMYK not RGB)

oops lots of mistakes.. sorryyyy..

You can look them up online, give them a call and ask for sherry.
If you are doing mail order you may have a problem with viewing proofs, but I bet they would print them for you. Maybe not at the same price I got, but you never know.

I would approach this option with a "get what you get" attitude, as once they are printed and in your hands they are yours to keep if you cant look at the proofs. And your PDF file would need to be spot on perfect and ready to go. I would probably mail a DVD with the project package on it and let them set up the output file (+$) .

Best to call her and ask to see if they would consider taking it on. Just so you know, they are a big volume outfit, so they will charge more for small runs than kinkos or others..... if they have time to do it.

the equipment there is top because of the volume they handle.

Ok I just got done with a massive headache of dealing with lulu, so i will add my two cents.

1.) CMYK really only works best for offset printing, otherwise you will get the muted colors you are talkinga bout...even if it is being printed on a CMYK printer. For anything other than offset printed (not you unless you want a 1000 copies of your portfolio) use RGB. (Remember if you are sending an image to a publication/magazine make sure that one is CMYK.

2.) the next big rule is don't change your color workflow in other words if you tend to make rgb images dont change them all to cmyk and vice versa. If you do ever need to convert these do so through your pdf compiler (do some reading on color profiles before you do this though as it can be a lil confusing at first)

3.) for lulu either send them a dvd if you can fit it all on there (we couldn't) or print your book through distiller with its set to acrobat 5 (1.4) use the HIGH-QUALITY setting not press quality (high=rgb which is what lulu needs to give you a rich print)

4.) to make your life easier use as few transparencies as possible (fill the backgrounds in photoshop with the desired background color)

5.) Run preflight from the advanced tab before you send it off or you will more than likely be very sorry. We didn't and had all kinds of problems.

6.) Lulu is very ticky because of their inhouse RIP. We have had our books printed tons of times at other print houses with no problems but lulu would jack it up everytime.

7.) If you can get on the lulu live support and ask to speak with don about indesign. Ask him to look at your pdf for you and he can help you with anything that arises. You can also ask them to print a limited set of test sheets and look at them to see if any problems occur before they run the full book (this can save you weeks worth of time instead of wait, ship, proof, wait, ship, etc

Hope this helps somewhat... kinda rambled along there

so i just got said portfolios back from lulu and they look great other than they have a pinkish tinge on many of the images, including ones that are supposed to be greyscale and vector drawings consisting of just black lines and grey shaded boxes.

is it possible i somehow caused this by improper file formatting? a draft i printed with them 2 weeks ago looked totally fine, no pinkish tinge, and it was made from the same image files (albeit a different indesign layout) and made into a pdf in indesign in the same way (i think).

so maybe it's lulu's fault? is there any way to get them to fix it? i emailed them but they generally take over a week to respond. they have no phone number and their live chat people wouldn't help me with it (they said i need to email)

maybe i need to give up and do it kinkos style

lulu sounds like a giant pain in the ass

fo sho

okay so they said it's because my greyscale images are in RGB and should actually be in greyscale...

but so the vector images that were only black lines... they were from AutoCAD, printed to Adobe PDF, and then placed in InDesign. How is there even a colorspace to that????? How can I change that to greyscale?

you could open your pdf in photshop and convert it to greyscale.

goodluck with all the hoops.

thanks jason.

i just noticed though, my full color images are tinted magenta as well.

shiiiiiiiiii

I stood next to the tech as he printed my proofs. First set came out pink, he pulled a calibration card out and scanned it using the special thingy for the printer, and the next set of proofs came out perfect. He said that the white balance in the machine had shifted and that they have to calibrate it regularly.

sounds like the white balance on their printer was not calibrated.
but how would you be able to tell? ask them maybe?


As a photographer pink prints are unacceptable to me. I still stand by the handling your color conversion in photoshop and not in the PDF compiler or In-rip.

getting ahold of someone at lulu who has any power is about easy as getting a personal conversation with the president. the best i can foresee them doing is refunding my money and telling me to order again. i dont really have any other alternative printing place at this point, unless kinko's can do it, which i bet they can't.

so you're saying i should make sure all my images are in the proper colorspace *in photoshop* and then not check any of the color conversion options in the print to PDF dialogue in indesign?

thanks for the help. brer, where did you print yours?

Kinkos has basically the same machines as lulu...I have been able to print at Kinko's and get test prints while I was there...it wasn't all together smooth, but I was able to talk with a human and get immediate response.

they do? shiit, i was at alphagraphics, alledgedly the higher class version of kinkos and the proof they did for me was way worse quality than lulu.

I listed the contact info for them above.

If I could help I would. Maybe if they agree to print them for you I could drive up and have a look at them? I suppose it depends on when you need them and what they want to charge you to get it done.


The logic behind doing all the conversions yourself is that,

a. photoshop will do a better job as it has access to the imbedded color profiles and information to do the conversion right.

b. if you do it you know it done, you can trust that it looks the way you want (considering your monitor is decent) and the results will be more predictable.



It is worth noting that I create working copies of my images, do the layouts and color conversion using the copies. I dont modify my originals from RGB.

hey brer, thanks for the offer. although lulu sure screwed me over i think it might be too late in the game to try to get a different printer on board, since i need to send to UCLA by Thursday and I'm notwhere near california. I think I'll just throw some more money (money that I don't actually have...) at Lulu at home they print it right this time. And pester their customer service nonstop until they give me a refund.

brer,
wasn't meaning to say that controlling your own color conversions was a bad thing, but when it comes down to lulu its a nightmare.

Their rip software typically converts things done native in indesign differently than things that are linked into. This is even after the pdf has been run through distiller, flattened etc.

i honestly would avoid lulu if at all possible but that is just from personal experience

and shizznit they can't seem to do full-bleed right, even after following their directions impeccably. there always seems to be a little white stripe on top or bottom on some but not all pages.

my alas, portfolio season is over and i'm left with no other options - unless someone has a suggestion?

Kinko's can work. Its not the first option, but it definitely can work.

Best of luck on the printing robust84.

I certainly hope I wasn't confusing the issue.
lots of differing opinions on that subject for sure.

for sure - i appreciate the help