Just my 2 cents, as I didn’t go to an Ivy League school but have been gainfully employed since I graduated almost 7 years ago.

Going to an Ivy League school will not guarantee you anything, especially in this economy.  My opinion on it has always been that you shouldn’t break the bank for an architectural graduate degree, since the job market isn’t that fantastic.  That being said, if you go to an ivy league school, and spend your time there networking with the alum and other contacts through the school, perhaps intern somewhere while there, and really take advantage of everything that being “ivy league” offers, then it could be worth it.  I don’t know how much debt you would be taking on though, to really tell you if it would be worth it overall.

I seriously doubt you will get a better paying job because you have an ivy league degree.  I think it potentially could get you a foot in the door somewhere due to alumni connections, (which can be very valuable) but not necessarily give you a better salary.  That will come through your performance

From what I can tell….
There can be this perception that just going to an ivy league school will guarantee you riches later on, or higher salaries, etc.  You need to still work your ass off beyond just your school work to take advantage of everything an ivy league school can offer to really reap the benefits.  Alumni aren’t coming around looking for you to offer you a high salary job, but if you network and take advantage of everything at the school, you can find an in with some alumni that could lead you to a job.

again, just my 3 cents from someone who didn’t go to an ivy league school.

I’d be very hesitant to take on much extra debt for an m.arch though

I am unsure on what a dual degree in sustainable design would really get you nowadays as that part of the industry is changing so fast.  If its an area of interest, then it would be a good idea, but I don’t know how much it necessarily will boost your job prospects.

I have worked for a firm that is predominately Ivy league - I myself came from a rather obscure school(New School of Architecture in San Diego - who are they-never heard of the place??) the Ivy Leagues are the one the survive layoffs, perform design, move into leadership positions and are generally more successful - if I had to do it over, I would have perked my ears up a lot earlier, got the grades in prep school and  gone to Harvard. You get what you pay for - Do you want to be a designer/architect or do you want to be stuck as a $20/hr BIM monkey like me.

my understanding has always been that the ivy league is far more meaningful for JD and MBA degrees than for architecture.

Zenakis - that firm you were working at was probably shit to begin with.

That is pretty much illegal and is categorically untrue for any firm that I know of or have worked in.

zenakis

that sounds like one very specific example of a firm.  Why would you assume that the only way you can design something is because you are from an ivy league school?

Maybe you should look into switching firms, because that isnt necessarily the way it is done everywhere (I have worked for 3 places and none were remotely what you describe).  Most places promote based on MERIT, not degree

The only people who look down on you for not going to an ivy league school or one of your "Big 8" bullshit schools are the people found here on archinect.

In the real world that I live in, it simply is not the case.  and I've worked at a number of high-profile highly published design firms.

wash U is an excellent program with name-recognition outside the midwest.

athough I think it has more to do with how ambitious you are and how you leverage the strengths of the particular program you went to.

marmkid

just my experience - most of my professors where from GSD and Columbia and the office I went to work for upon graduation did have a lot of ivy league people there - where I am at now? the firm I am at now is  Berkeley, Cal Poly SLO , U-Penn and wash U.

The firm I'm at is very transparent in its statistics:  Please see below at our top 20 schools where people got their training:

You will see that this is more geographic based and is more in line with where we have local offices.  Example, Los Angeles is one of our bigger offices so there a lot of graduates from the various west coast schools working there.

University of Houston:  74 People

Pratt Institute:  66 People

U of Texas - Austin:  66 People

Columbia University:  57 People

University of California-Berkeley:  51 People

Cornell U:  48 People

Virginia Tech:  47 People

U. of Cincinnati:  45 People

Cal Poly:  40 People

USC:  40 People

UCLA:  40 People

Catholic U:  33 People

Florida:  33 People

Texas A&M:  32 People

Sci Arc:  31 People

Arizona State:  28 People

RISD:  28 People

U. of Michigan: 28 People

Kansas State:  27 People

U Penn:  27 People

Although the school sounds a little creepy definitely choose the sustainable design and do something that will contribute the society. You'll also have to pay much less tuition so you'll be shooting two birds with one stone.

I go to Penn. If you want to come because you think you will make more money having a degree from our school then I wouldn't come here. You'll do just as well at another school. However if you are  interested in pushing the boundaries of design and having great discussions with your professors and peers then I would come here for sure. The level of student enthusiasm and ambition is higher here than other schools. 

No, nothing does.

Thank you all for your advice. 

The reason I want to go to UPenn is not only for connection(yes, it is one of the biggest reasons), but also because I heard and believe, from what I saw, that UPenn focuses not only on the design aspect of architecture, but also theoretical aspect as well. I am very much interested in the latter as well as the design aspect. I appreciate aesthetic of architecture, but I would like to study human perception in architectural space more in depth. But CUA, on the other hand, offers a great program on sustainability, which I am highly interested in as well. Also, I believe that it is and continue to be necessary to learn to design a sustainable buildings.. At least that's why I learned from 4 years of schooling..  

I understand that I am the one who makes all the difference. But what I am wondering is that how much a name of school will boost my competitiveness against other hard-working students after I graduate.

I love and enjoy every aspect of architecture, and I will continue to work hard which ever school I attend. I believe that every school has their own unique program, and I'm sure where ever I go, they will offer me a great learning experience. But if a name of school will open up more doors for me, wouldn't it be better to attend more well-known school?

Also, WUSTL's deadline has just passed.. so now I am really down to CUA and UPenn..

@gabee602:

I'm in the same boat - got accepted to UPenn with a meager amount of financial aid, but I also have other options. The quality of the program is great, don't get me wrong, but honestly, as upstart architects, it'll be really difficult for us to get our careers off the ground while shackled with mounds of debt.  If you think about it, if you end up in debt $100,000+, you're going to be paying out your ears every month for your student loans. I don't know - just a logical consideration.

Obviously there are ways to deal with that sort of burden, but yeah, they're pretty spartan alternatives.

As for me, I'd choose the option that is more within my means; ultimately, the name of where you went to school probably won't matter as much as the skills and talent that you exhibit in your work. Granted, a 'better' school might present better chances to hone those skills or be tested in challenging ways that cause you to strengthen your abilities.

Still. UPenn is a lot of $$$$. Just be conscientious of the debt obligations.

its not really in question that you will get a great education at an ivy league school, most likely

But in our field, is the program THAT much better to justify 50K extra in debt?  You arent able to earn it instantly in the profession, so you just need to weigh that vs how much better you actually think the program is.  Other schools have sustainable design programs, though like i said, these days it moves so fast its hard to say what you learn in school wont be essentially obsolete by the time you graduate.

You sound like you are thinking about all the right things though, and arent just choosing an ivy league just to go to an ivy league

Best of luck

whatever you do, just don't go to an ivy league because of the name. your colleagues will probably be pissed that there's a class full of people and the only reason they are there is because of the name.

other than that, I think name matters more in academia if you want to teach, but perhaps less so from a professional standpoint, where experience is more important. Now that isn't to say that there won't be plenty of opportunities for experience through connections and networking, and through school sponsored externship co/op opportunities.

Go because you seriously like the program, go because you can't imagine yourself taking classes any where else -- In the end, we're all taking the same NCARB accredited classes, so what makes it better at an ivy for you?

Much of the value of any degree is totally dependent on you. If you're not going to take advantage of the resources that would be available to you to further your skills, you're really just burning money. I'd imagine the equipment at the Ivies goes well beyond having laser cutters (which should be standard by now). In other words, don't go to a school that has a plasma cutter or 3D printer and not use it to experiment. And especially don't go to a school that holds intimate dinners with prominent practitioners and not attend (at the very least try).

If you were to race a car to win, would you choose a Porsche Carrera 4 or a Nissan GT-R? (neither are modified)

If you were to hire an employee (in architecture), would you choose an Ivy League graduate or a non-Ivy League graduate with a better portfolio and work ethic?

The right answers: Nissan GT-R and non-Ivy League with a better portfolio and work ethic.

If the answers weren't obvious to you (at least the second one), you're probably choosing a school for the wrong reasons.

@Vexillation - Good luck on your school decision, too! I would be very interested in knowing what your final decision will be. :)  

@Marmkid - Thank you for your great advice from the beginning of this discussion. Yes, as you said, it seems like it is about me weighting between money and the quality of the program. I will do further research on the program and professors and see if I think it is worth the money..

@Anxiety - I do not know much about cars, so I didn't really get your analogy, but I understand where you are getting at. However, I do not believe that all UPenn got is its fancy brand name. Yes, the name of school is well-known, but the reason people admire to attend the school is because of its long history of high quality education, all the research, all the influential professors and many successful graduates/alumni of UPenn. I am not just looking at its name here. I guess I wasn't very clear on that in the beginning of the discussion. I apologize. 

I am getting confused and lost as I hear more advice from different people.. Most of people who have given me an advice here (I greatly appreciate it!) are encouraging me to attend CUA because the name of school doesn't matter much in the real world, but it is rather about my work. So why bother to spend extra money on school. But I was also trying to seek for an advice from my colleagues and current graduate students as well, and most of them are encouraging me to attend UPenn, because UPenn is not known to be one of the best architecture programs only because of its name, but because of what they do, what they teach and who teaches there.

as marmkid said, I guess now it is down to whether I am willing to spend more money on my graduate education or not.. 

Thank you very much for all your advice. I wish all of you the best with whatever you do!

Please continue on posting on this discussion if you would like to share something more about this matter!

Studying human perception in architectural space is very interesting. I hope you come to Penn. We'll be classmates if you do. I was in the landscape program my first year. I never have regretted my decision to come. I have learned a lot already.

Being in Philadelphia is good because we are close to New York. We have a lot of practicing architects come from New York for our final critiques- many instructors also have offices there. That's something I doubt Catholic would have. The cost of living isn't nearly as high in Philadelphia as it is in New York or Washington.

@jonesjeffum - Thank you for your encouragement. Since you are attending the school already, if you don't mind, could I ask you few questions about  the program? If you are interested, please send me an email to gabee602@hotmail.com Thank you!

none of the ivies are sitting on their laurels.  sure there are people with money there, but in general they also have brains. 

what you do is more important than where you studied, no doubt.  teachers and peers possibly push harder in ivy than in other schools and standards are likely higher on average, but the real usefulness is with the contacts.  such things do make a difference in the long run (especially if you do decide to teach).

whether any of that is worth it or not depends on what you think is important.  the tuition is hard to justify if you can't afford it to begin with but other things being equal it is a no brainer to me.

as for the env science double degree, it sounds interesting but wonder if it prepares you to be a technician or an informed designer?  if the latter then i suspect you can learn a lot of that stuff without coursework.  it isn't rocket science...

"@Anxiety - I do not know much about cars, so I didn't really get your analogy, but I understand where you are getting at. However, I do not believe that all UPenn got is its fancy brand name. Yes, the name of school is well-known, but the reason people admire to attend the school is because of its long history of high quality education, all the research, all the influential professors and many successful graduates/alumni of UPenn. I am not just looking at its name here. I guess I wasn't very clear on that in the beginning of the discussion. I apologize."

Sorry about that. The point I was making is that you shouldn't make the decision based on the name of the car (analogous to the name of the school).

I didn't mean that UPenn is all about the name, because it certainly isn't. UPenn has a very good M. Arch program, and if I were in your position, I would choose it (based on the their pedagogy).

It's good to talk to your professors and current students at those schools, but ultimately, you are the one to decide what you want out of the education :)

*In terms of a program in sustainability, you should look into Berkeley if you decide not to go to school this year.