McGill

i received an offer from Mcgill and Uof T ,,,..and if anyone knows better info about toronto please help me out , their website is a pain in the neck in terms of providing necessary information in a summarized manner. So same problem I guess?

Your information about Waterloo is correct, the co-op program is awesome and worth the extra year, however you have to consider that the uni itself is famous for mathematics and IT , so may be lacking in terms of artistic taste (my personal opinion)

Here is what i gathered from Mcgill's website and personal sources

-exchange programs to italy (not sure but it could be Greece, i'm getting confused with UofT)

-arch Phd program availiable

-awesome reputation outside Canada --"Harvard of Canada"

-only take in 50 people , waterloo takes 70

-oldest Arch school in Canada

-many employers from private sectors come to the uni to look for students (this is hearsay)

I was rejected by Waterloo so i'm probably biased, but i think waterloo arch is overrated, since the reason they only take 70 students every year is because they cant fit more people in due to its small faculty buildings, and small faculty is associated with small staff numbers which means less information / variety availiable etc

and i think you should look more into "mcgill's no summer holiday" part, its possible that the reason you dont have a holiday is because you are on a "work term"

Best graduates I have ever hired have all been from Waterloo.  I graduated from UBC but by far the best young architects I have ever seen with a good skill set and experience in real offices all came from Waterloo.

Its not about the apartment you live in its about your education, skills and real world experience that will get you in the door for your first job.  You can get an education in lots of places and in lots of other faculties, but you won't necessarily get a job when you come out from most.

if you are not from quebec you also have to take a full year of science courses in first year if im not mistaken.  Waterloo you are thrown into design studio from day 1.

Yes the university overall (waterloo) is not big on design, but the school of architecture definitely does not feel this.

McGill definitely is better known in the world, but Waterloo is pretty well respected as well and the architecture program has its own reputation.  The big firms and ivy leagues know about the school and regularly bring in students.

The faculty is small but very diverse, there are option studios in digital design (parametric), a studio focused on education in Greenland (including field trip), one on architectural instincts and imagination (more landscape focused), and a very surreal, sculpture focused one, so pick your path.

Feel like I should clear up a couple things here:

alexandriasu:
1) There is no "automatic" admission to the masters program at Waterloo; you still have to apply and be accepted just like every other university.
2) There is nothing particularly great about the town of Cambridge; Montreal will be a better incubator of architecture than Cambridge (you can personally weigh that as you will).
3) I'm not really sure what you mean by no more summer holiday. If there is a work term during those summers, well, get used to it. You'd be working somehow during the summer anyways (I'd assume), so you might as well have the university help you find a placement in architecture.

Zinggy:
1) To clarify, 70 is not a low number for an incoming undergraduate class; in fact it's pretty much on par. I don't believe any Canadian undergraduate programs have more than that.
2) In your situation I'd suggest you go to McGill over UT (if this is undergraduate we're talking here). The UT program is a Bachelor of Arts and will not allow you to apply to any M.Arch programs in Canada other than UT's 3.5-year track, which is for people who did not take a true architecture undergrad. To simplify, you would be applying to the same track as people who finished degrees in Engineering, Fine Art, English, Philosophy, etc.

Actually, I'm currently in the undergraduate program at UofT, and they offer advanced placement for students who wish to pursue the masters program, so it only takes 2.5 years with summers off. The undergraduate program also lets you double major in architecture and any other program, allowing you to pursue in other things that you're interested in.

Yes waterloo grads are considered much more employable due to its co-op program but in the end it all comes down to what you achieve as an individual.

Yes you have to take a year of sciences in mcgill if you are an out of province student, however if you know the material (equivalent to AS chem, AL maths AL physics and further maths in british system) you can transfer credits or take their placement tests (which is what i'm planning to do)  to skip the first year. So busy summer for me  -__-

I dont know if you noticed, but Waterloo's arch building is 30min drive from the main campus, and i suggest you to google the building and see what it looks like compared to mcgill's . Might make you change your mind

PS I'm very biased since i hate Waterloo for not accepting me  :/~~  just saying

Waterloo's grad program is academic reenactment of "They shoot horses, don't they?"

So, Waterloo for undergrad. McGill for grad. That way you get soup AND salad with your shitsammich.

Rusty! Care to explain? If I recall correctly you went to UW for grad correct? I'm planning to send out an application for their June 1st M.Arch deadline but I've had trouble actually finding any information about the program. Seems to take a back-seat to the undergrad program.

Hey BenC! UofW's Masters is very unique. It's open ended, no hard deadlines for anything. You keep working on stuff until you and your advisor agree you are ready to defend. This can be a complete mindfuck for an average architecture student who relies on deadlines to accomplish anything. You better be extremely organized and a self starter, otherwise you can get stuck there for a while. Most student do (get stuck there). 

If you have a very strong thesis topic that you are extremely passionate about, then the open ended approach can be awesome. You can accomplish phd level research. Chances are though, your thesis subject was plucked out of your ass (architecture and agriculture!!1!) and the final work (bathhouse outside Calgary) was totally not worth the 42 months of continuous torture. 

honestly both are good schools. yeah waterloo helps with the co-op program...however if you try hard enough you can get a decent paid internship for a year abroad once you are done your undergrad....a friend of mine did this with his undergrad from U of T. Its a good idea to do, to gain experience. Waterloo will give you a more streamlined architecture education. But you might be able to diversify your education at McGill at least you can at U of T

One thing is for sure avoid Waterloo for the Masters. Everyone I know that has done it (or is still doing it) claimed it would only take a year to a year and a half and ended up spending years doing it. I have some friends that went to U of T after doing the bachelors at Waterloo.....All their friends from Waterloo thought they were crazy because they had to do 2.5 years instead of 1/1.5 years. They ended up graduating before most of their friends, at the same time published articles, worked for starchitects etc....all the while their friends back at Waterloo were still doing their thesis.

This is the common theme I keep hearing about with regards to UW's M.Arch, and quite frankly it scares me. While I do think that I fall into the 'self-starter' category, I'm there to learn damnit! I see myself as absolutely one of the students who would need to get frequent guidance (ie. meeting with a supervisor at least once a week). While I have a good idea of the themes that I want to explore for my M.Arch, at the same time they are fairly abstract and therefore cause me to think that would make me want guidance even more. All of this is boiling up to me thinking that UW's M.Arch might not be a good fit for me, even though I've always had a deep respect/admiration for the school and the work they produce. Are the students completely left to their own devices?

I do not know what happens during the thesis at Waterloo, maybe you should talk to the faculty? or go to another school? Don't get me wrong its a strong school- but they really have to do something about thesis situation.

When I was doing my thesis at U of T I met with my advisor once a week. After the penultimate we would meet twice a week. Although I was lucky with my advisor- not all of them do this. I have to say I am a self starter type myself but that support really helps. Or if you lacked support from your advisor at U of T you at least have rigid deadlines. Everyone gets timid during thesis so the push is important. At U of T its generally looked down upon if you defend even a week late. Unless you have had something tragic happen to you or your family of course.

I stumbled upon some waterloo webpage that had Waterloo M.Arch thesis's uploaded to it, took a look at a few, avg 200+ pages, many were written explorations of theory mixed with pictures, really heavy duty analytical approach to subject matter. I remember one was 500+ pages by someone documenting a couple years of work researching the New Orleans disaster relief housing.  So yes, their theses looked more involved than normal.   

Hey domestico, I wouldn't mind seeing that website if you recall the link? Cheers.

I remember stumbing upon it when looking for the waterloo library webpage.  looks like everyone has to upload their thesis to this waterloo library online database.

http://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/simple-search?query=architecture&start=0

Hi alexandrasiu, 

Congratulations on being accepted by both schools, job well done. Currently I'm attending school in the US and I don't know a whole lot about schools in Canada. But I know that both schools are very well respected in the field, so I think no matter which school you choose, you'll be just fine in the future. 

I've also applied to McGill, but I haven't heard from them yet. I called the office last Friday and they told me they haven't started reviewing my application yet. However they told me that because I'm an international student, my application will be reviewed before Canadian students. Did you apply for early admission and is that why you've already heard from the school? 

Good job on getting admitted. Hopefully I'll hear from McGill soon, too.  

there is also a lot more pressure now on masters students at waterloo to finish their stuff up on time, a few years ago they were just letting people hang around for as long as they wanted

I don't know why you think you'd have no summers at McGill after 2nd year. The only reason you would need to take summer courses is if you wanted to do a minor or have a lighter course-load in another semester. That said, the School of Architecture does offer some pretty nice summer courses abroad (Greece, Italy). There is also the mandatory sketching field-course before 3rd year, buts its the last week in August, so it hardly counts as losing a summer...

I've just graduated from McGill's undergraduate program and I have my reservations. I really don't know how the other undergraduate schools compare though. McGill is in a bit of a transition state at the moment, we just got a new director and the first-year design studio underwent a major change in terms of projects and professors. (And its rumoured to be changing again for next year). However, if you are from out-of-province, you won't be actually be starting in the School of Architecture until the fall of 2013, so things will probably be a bit more settled by then.

I'll stick to the good things about McGill for now. It has a really great set of architecture history courses, which I really loved and appreciated. The first year design studio I had (remember, its been changed) was a great introduction to abstract thinking, design and hand-drawing/model-making. It really set a foundation of non-digital skills for the rest of the degree. There is a multitude of different interests/specializations in the faculty, which is both good and frustrating. Its easy to find a professor who's research interests you, as there are so many options. On the other end, you might end up with a prof who's views you hate, but you'll learn from them too. Class sizes are incredibly small once you get into the actual SoA - around 50 students/year. You'll make life-long friends and get to know everybody really well. Montreal is probably a better place to study in, but you have to make the effort to get out and do things. Most McGill students will stay confined to the "McGill bubble". However, theres lots out there to see, as an arch student or not. One of the best advantages is having the CCA (Canadian Centre for Architecture) just down the road. It has an amazing archive, puts on excellent exhibits and lectures and if your lucky, your profs will use it in their class curriculum.

The negatives? There is no help in finding summer jobs/internships, which is especially frustrating because you need work experience before applying to McGill's masters. If you don't speak French, getting a job in Montreal will be hard. I've touched on the new director issue before. Its been a hugely political issue within the school, some believe to such an extent that it has negatively affected the quality of education. I personally think more time is needed before such large statements can be made. The undergraduate program remains relatively unchanged, and I think will remain little affected.

If I was to do it again, I'd actually apply to Waterloo. I think doing a co-op degree has huge benefits, not just for your job prospects post-graduation but for your personal development. Architecture school is nothing like working in the real world (or so I'm told). I've been extremely frustrated by the lack of 'reality' in my design studios, and I think having internships in-between studio courses would have helped with that. It allows you to learn in both the academic and real-world settings simultaneously, and earn a little bit of money along the way ;)

Sorry for the long reply, hope it helps. I don't mean to discourage you from McGill in any way. I think its a great place to do your undergrad, especially if you didn't grow up here (like I did). Its a wonderful city to discover, the School of Architecture is a very close-knit community and McGill itself is just a beautiful campus.

Cheers,
Meredith

Wow, i did not expect this many responses! Thanks for all the comments, contributions and discussion!

Hendrik: "McGill definitely is better known in the world, but Waterloo is pretty well respected as well and the architecture program has its own reputation.  The big firms and ivy leagues know about the school and regularly bring in students." Are you referring to McGill? or Waterloo? or both?

Thank you for the clarifications about summer holiday BenC.

and ustransfer, I don't believe there is such a thing as early admission for the architecture program? However, I finished my applications in early November, and had my grades and portfolio received in late February. Perhaps they review everything in the order of the dates received? When did you submit your documents? Hopefully you will hear from them soon, I wish you all the best!

My most gracious gratitude to you, Meredith, for your input! I am so glad to have your opinion and thoughts on McGill, as I've been trying to find insight on the program for so long and have not found anything until now, and it's from a recent graduate as well, just my luck. :-)

For now, I am still undecided, but leaning more towards Waterloo because of co-op. As well, I've been getting to know the student body and they're a really friendly bunch. I have until June 1st to decide, so I'll probably go to the campuses and check them out before making a final decision. Again, I really appreciate everyone's comments. Many many thanks!

I was referring to waterloo in my comment

Hey Alexandra,

perusing your thread and wanted to drop in.  I graduated from Uwaterloo last August, and I have to say that COOP + Rome was a really great experience.  Pretty much the 5 years of undergrad only had the first summer off, but the coop was a great opportunity to travel the world and work.  

While Waterloo has a program to help find a coop job, the system is something that you won't use much unless you want to work in a small number of firms in Toronto (besides your first term when your portfolio isn't yet developed and you haven't had much work experience).  Looking on your own will give you a greater chance at getting experiences abroad - this will be done on your own ambition/hunting, and will be much more rewarding.  

I liked the undergrad program, but honestly, I am not sure if I learned more from being taught than from scraping together thoughts/readings/concepts on my own - I think that the undergrad years is a few years of being tossed around by numerous schools of thought/theories/trends/fetishes/profs until you can figure out where/if/how you stand in this field.  That's why coop was such a great/horrible dip into reality, while the general openness of the studios provided a playground to explore.

Since I went to Waterloo, I'd recommend Waterloo for a good foundation and then worry about Masters (somewhere else), where I'm hoping to have a chance to really learn and solidify my position in architecture.

or something like that.

Check out my page and my friend tae's page for an idea of some of the projects we worked on through the years...

and the class sizes are more like 80-some...our class was big...but it does slim down through the years...

and "harvard of canada" is...well...if you want ivy league, go to a real ivy league!