So here's the deal, I'm stuck at a crappy state university (UCSC) where archetecture is not offered and want to major and do that more than anything. I was accepted at U of Oregon, and Syracuse university for archecture but could not attend for finacial reasons. Has anyone else transfers into an archecture school, of have any advice for me. As lame as it may sound architecture has been my dream since i was about 7, and i feel like i'm wasting my time studying anthing else.
Second, but related question, if i weren't to transfer, waht would the best major for me to do as undergrad be if i wanted to go to a good graduate school for architecture (i'm sure it's something *shudders* involved with engineering.)
if you don't get a 5-year B.Arch, it doesn't matter what undergraduate degree, you'll be applying for a 3 year M.Arch I program for grad school.
you'll be behind if you're going into a 5-year program, so you might even need to start over. i'm not sure what the logistics are. i think you should stick out the 4 years at your current school, if you like it enough.
don't worry about your major. find something you enjoy and are interested in that may be peripherally related to architecture. it'll give you a good perspective and a sound knowledge base in a field outside of architecture
i didn't know what i wanted to do upon entering undergrad. by junior year i knew i wanted to do architecture but we didn't have a program. so i majored in art studio and history. it was a great match.
grad schools value having a diverse student body so i don't think it favors you one way or another for what you major in. EXCEPT that you need a portfolio of creative work to submit for a grad program. in that light, i'd try to aim your college career so that you have a good body of artwork upon leaving. maybe it means being a art major, or photography, or who knows?
get to know the profession before you jump into it. it's not an easy one at all, the hours are lousy, and the money stinks. that being said, if you still love it at the end of the day, go for it. architecture school is very different than practicing architecture.
if i recall correctly UCSC has a pretty decent art program...
I don't think you need to be an art major. You can just take some art electives. When I was an undergrad I didn't know I wanted to do architecture. I only took one art class but ended up in "a top program". I have a BS in geology and was able to pull together a portfolio. Granted, it could have been much stronger if I had known earlier on that arch was what I would do later. But I think it might be of more value to do something else and be an art minor or just take a bunch of electives. I think sometimes the major forces you to take x courses. If you just take electives you can do the ones that interest you. I think a diverse background is very useful (not only in architecture, but in life). In my class of about 80 people, there are only a handful of ex art majors.
hasselhoff is def correct about diversity of experience in architecture and life.
don't sweat the undergrad degree. you can still get into grad school from any education you happen to make it through. don't hav to be engineering. it might be a good idea to have good grades though...so take whatever makes you happy.
You did not mention, katastrophe, what year in school you are. If oyu have a few years already toward a major I would echo the advice above to just continue on with a four-year degree in whatever, then apply to grad school for an MArch. You can spend your time while you finish your degree investigating what grad schools might be good for you. What classes have you enjoyed thus far: writing? Maybe a more theoretical school would be good for you. Environmental classes? Maybe a sustainability angle. Social sciences? Art? Engineering (sound slike not!) Architecture is a broad discipline, if you have the opportunity to get a good generalized background, a little focused in certain areas you feel comfortable with/enjoy, you can nodoubt find a program that suits your interests.
On the other hand, if you are still a freshman in college, I'd think transferring ASAP to a five year BArch might be a good plan, isn't that what UofO offers?
forget about architecture for now. pick the easiest major you can find (or at least an easy one for you) and instead of studying spend as much time as possible building your social network. look for hardworking, ambitious people and/or the well-heeled whether student or faculty. as an architect you're going to need an assortment of clients and guardian angels and it's never too soon to start finding these people.
I would agree with the above except that UCSC really does suck and if you aren't happy and you're sure you want to do arch, may as well just get the hell on out now. Also if you are in your first or second year, transferring to a B.Arch. may save you money in the long run anyhow which sounds like a concern to you.
I say, transfer over to CalPolySLO. You don't have to move too far, and it's a great school with a solid undergrad program. Plus, it's CHEAP. It's even cheaper than UCSC.
In my undergrad B.Arch program, we had at least 4 transfers in our small class of ~45; I'm pretty sure all of them had already done 2 years of school in a prior major. Some were transfers from other schools. Honestly, most of them were in the top of our class, partly because their age and perspective made them absorb concepts more easily than the rest of us freshmen. They did have to start over at first year of the 5 year arch program, and I doubt that would be any different at any other school. They got out of some of the gen ed requirements, however.
I've often looked back at things and wished I had done it exactly that way--taken some other major for my first two years of school, then transferred into a B.Arch program. For many different (and some personal) reasons I think this would have been best for me.
If you don't like CalPoly, another cheap and somewhat local school is ASU. I would also encourage applying to USC's B.Arch program because you never know what kind of financial aid you'll get--sometimes even the most expensive private school ends up being comparable to a state school when you look at your financial aid package. I actually chose a far-away private school over CalPoly because they ended up costing exactly the same for me, and I wanted to leave California.
And if you want to transfer within the UC system--which is supposed to be super easy--you can switch to Berkeley or UCLA for 4 year undergrad arch degrees, although you will have to get a 2 year Master's degree (instead of a 3 year Master's) after that in order to become licensed.
katastrophe, I was in your position (more or less) not long ago...
the short version - I decided after a year at a decent state school (University of Central Florida) that I wanted to study architecture. UCF didn't offer it, so I contacted the closest program that did (University of Florida), and was told that transferring between state schools (in Florida) was much smoother with an AA degree (it turns out that the admission requirements for undergrad transfer students into UF without an AA are more stringent than those for students applying directly from high school)...
anyway, I finished my AA at the first school and began an architecture program at the other school the following Fall semester. I was a couple years older than most of my peers. I also had the benefit of being done with GenEd courses, allowing me to focus on the architecture curriculum...this also gave me room in my schedule to get a minor.
My degree from UF is a 4 year pre-professional degree (unlike the 5 year BArch mentioned above), so I will have to return to graduate school eventually.
Others have given you good advice about possibilities for eventually getting an M.Arch without an undergrad architecture major.
But if you do decide to transfer into an undergrad professional architecture program (5-year B.Arch): you should do it as soon as possible. I don't think you said what year you're in, but if you transfer at any point after your freshman year you can expect that most 5-year programs will start you at 2nd year status - at least for studio. This means that you might end up taking more than 5 years total getting the B.Arch - which may mean that it ends up being as or more expensive ultimately than the M.Arch route.
katastrophe:
Schools are all academic. The antonym of academic is pragmatic. If you are in school you cannot learn about the real world, only the academic world as viewed by academics. Having said that, you still need to get past the academic door, so just get on with it, and get it behind you. If you can, get a Doctorate, as that will open more doors and you will find you do not need to sign any drawings to be the actual "Architect," as some land developers are really on a par with Architects. Currently there is so much emphasis on CAD that few students learn anything about buildings, occupants, planning, constrution or getting the project complete. About half of the recent grads leave Arch school for computer graphic careers paying 2x to 3x architecture grads.
If you want the real world, you need to know how buildings are really built, how they are owned, what occupants want and need, and how buildings work after they are completed.
I have been licensed in CA and AZ for 45 yrs, and NCARB for 35 yr. I recommend staying with ART and ART HISTORY, and really learning how to draw exceptionally well with a pencil. Take courses outside of school in Real Estate Licensure, and General Contractor Licensure and pass their exams (only don't get licensed). Get some economic courses and basic accounting--you will need to be a whiz with cost analysis and documentation.
You would be amazed how many Bankers design marginal buildings that are dysfunctional on the basis of their finance "decisions" and "opinions," which you will always need to successfully counter with statistics, facts and documentation--bring them back to pragmatic reality as the finance decision is critical to success and Bankers need to be on the team.
The same is true of GCs and Realtors who define architecture as: Plan Preparation and Obtaining Entitlements. (This explains a lot of the built world as architects are usually only involved with 20% of all building construction.) You need to talk in their jargon as they will not understand Architect jargon, any more than Engineers.
When I was a student (at a well-known CA school), a visiting French Architect said "if you are going to be a successful Architect, you will need to know everything about everything." Still very true today.
UCSC is OK, it is only what you decide to make out of it. Any school you are in will be no better than your intellectual and emotional investment. Don't lose time transferring. Be creative right now at UCSC. You are responsible to make your world wonderful yourself. That is the lesson you will eventually learn, why not now, why not right where you are?
Optimism and persistence is everything. Good luck.
While I don't disagree with everything JM Kay just said, I take strong exception to both these statements:
"Currently there is so much emphasis on CAD that few students learn anything about buildings, occupants, planning, constrution or getting the project complete. About half of the recent grads leave Arch school for computer graphic careers paying 2x to 3x architecture grads."
JM Kay, you must not know much about contemporary architecture school. Many don't even formally teach CAD at all--and to suggest that school is all about computers is absurd; of course you learn about occupants, buildings, and construction in school. If you are involved with NCARB you should know the stringent requirements on that head. Where are you getting your assertions from? Also, design school does emphasize design, yes; precisely because you cannot get that kind of learning in the workforce. If you follow the french architect's advice, then heading to school for design helps you learn everything about everything, does it not?
And as for the claim that half of recent architecture grads go into computer graphic careers, honestly I find that outlandish. Can you cite evidence to support this? Even if you're talking about recent grads who literally decide to model for a year in NYC to have fun and make money, I would still be surprised at the claim that half of arch grads do this. And of those who do I'm willing to bet that many continue on to careers in architecture anyway.
I'll also disagree with the worth of a PhD as a practitioner- they tend to close more doors then open - you limit yourself to being an overinflated brain, not a designer/practicing architect.
M.Archs seem to be the best deal these days, that said figuring out the best school for yourself is hard...
As a freshman, stop worrying so much about your future. get laid, get drunk. become an interesting person. everything else will follow.
Oct 17, 06 2:53 pm ·
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Help, what about transfering?
So here's the deal, I'm stuck at a crappy state university (UCSC) where archetecture is not offered and want to major and do that more than anything. I was accepted at U of Oregon, and Syracuse university for archecture but could not attend for finacial reasons. Has anyone else transfers into an archecture school, of have any advice for me. As lame as it may sound architecture has been my dream since i was about 7, and i feel like i'm wasting my time studying anthing else.
Second, but related question, if i weren't to transfer, waht would the best major for me to do as undergrad be if i wanted to go to a good graduate school for architecture (i'm sure it's something *shudders* involved with engineering.)
thank you in advance.
if you don't get a 5-year B.Arch, it doesn't matter what undergraduate degree, you'll be applying for a 3 year M.Arch I program for grad school.
you'll be behind if you're going into a 5-year program, so you might even need to start over. i'm not sure what the logistics are. i think you should stick out the 4 years at your current school, if you like it enough.
don't worry about your major. find something you enjoy and are interested in that may be peripherally related to architecture. it'll give you a good perspective and a sound knowledge base in a field outside of architecture
i didn't know what i wanted to do upon entering undergrad. by junior year i knew i wanted to do architecture but we didn't have a program. so i majored in art studio and history. it was a great match.
grad schools value having a diverse student body so i don't think it favors you one way or another for what you major in. EXCEPT that you need a portfolio of creative work to submit for a grad program. in that light, i'd try to aim your college career so that you have a good body of artwork upon leaving. maybe it means being a art major, or photography, or who knows?
get to know the profession before you jump into it. it's not an easy one at all, the hours are lousy, and the money stinks. that being said, if you still love it at the end of the day, go for it. architecture school is very different than practicing architecture.
if i recall correctly UCSC has a pretty decent art program...
I don't think you need to be an art major. You can just take some art electives. When I was an undergrad I didn't know I wanted to do architecture. I only took one art class but ended up in "a top program". I have a BS in geology and was able to pull together a portfolio. Granted, it could have been much stronger if I had known earlier on that arch was what I would do later. But I think it might be of more value to do something else and be an art minor or just take a bunch of electives. I think sometimes the major forces you to take x courses. If you just take electives you can do the ones that interest you. I think a diverse background is very useful (not only in architecture, but in life). In my class of about 80 people, there are only a handful of ex art majors.
hasselhoff is def correct about diversity of experience in architecture and life.
don't sweat the undergrad degree. you can still get into grad school from any education you happen to make it through. don't hav to be engineering. it might be a good idea to have good grades though...so take whatever makes you happy.
You did not mention, katastrophe, what year in school you are. If oyu have a few years already toward a major I would echo the advice above to just continue on with a four-year degree in whatever, then apply to grad school for an MArch. You can spend your time while you finish your degree investigating what grad schools might be good for you. What classes have you enjoyed thus far: writing? Maybe a more theoretical school would be good for you. Environmental classes? Maybe a sustainability angle. Social sciences? Art? Engineering (sound slike not!) Architecture is a broad discipline, if you have the opportunity to get a good generalized background, a little focused in certain areas you feel comfortable with/enjoy, you can nodoubt find a program that suits your interests.
On the other hand, if you are still a freshman in college, I'd think transferring ASAP to a five year BArch might be a good plan, isn't that what UofO offers?
forget about architecture for now. pick the easiest major you can find (or at least an easy one for you) and instead of studying spend as much time as possible building your social network. look for hardworking, ambitious people and/or the well-heeled whether student or faculty. as an architect you're going to need an assortment of clients and guardian angels and it's never too soon to start finding these people.
I would agree with the above except that UCSC really does suck and if you aren't happy and you're sure you want to do arch, may as well just get the hell on out now. Also if you are in your first or second year, transferring to a B.Arch. may save you money in the long run anyhow which sounds like a concern to you.
I say, transfer over to CalPolySLO. You don't have to move too far, and it's a great school with a solid undergrad program. Plus, it's CHEAP. It's even cheaper than UCSC.
In my undergrad B.Arch program, we had at least 4 transfers in our small class of ~45; I'm pretty sure all of them had already done 2 years of school in a prior major. Some were transfers from other schools. Honestly, most of them were in the top of our class, partly because their age and perspective made them absorb concepts more easily than the rest of us freshmen. They did have to start over at first year of the 5 year arch program, and I doubt that would be any different at any other school. They got out of some of the gen ed requirements, however.
I've often looked back at things and wished I had done it exactly that way--taken some other major for my first two years of school, then transferred into a B.Arch program. For many different (and some personal) reasons I think this would have been best for me.
If you don't like CalPoly, another cheap and somewhat local school is ASU. I would also encourage applying to USC's B.Arch program because you never know what kind of financial aid you'll get--sometimes even the most expensive private school ends up being comparable to a state school when you look at your financial aid package. I actually chose a far-away private school over CalPoly because they ended up costing exactly the same for me, and I wanted to leave California.
And if you want to transfer within the UC system--which is supposed to be super easy--you can switch to Berkeley or UCLA for 4 year undergrad arch degrees, although you will have to get a 2 year Master's degree (instead of a 3 year Master's) after that in order to become licensed.
Wait, does UCLA offer a B.Arch now? Anyone know?
katastrophe, I was in your position (more or less) not long ago...
the short version - I decided after a year at a decent state school (University of Central Florida) that I wanted to study architecture. UCF didn't offer it, so I contacted the closest program that did (University of Florida), and was told that transferring between state schools (in Florida) was much smoother with an AA degree (it turns out that the admission requirements for undergrad transfer students into UF without an AA are more stringent than those for students applying directly from high school)...
anyway, I finished my AA at the first school and began an architecture program at the other school the following Fall semester. I was a couple years older than most of my peers. I also had the benefit of being done with GenEd courses, allowing me to focus on the architecture curriculum...this also gave me room in my schedule to get a minor.
My degree from UF is a 4 year pre-professional degree (unlike the 5 year BArch mentioned above), so I will have to return to graduate school eventually.
so...you have a number of choices...best of luck.
Others have given you good advice about possibilities for eventually getting an M.Arch without an undergrad architecture major.
But if you do decide to transfer into an undergrad professional architecture program (5-year B.Arch): you should do it as soon as possible. I don't think you said what year you're in, but if you transfer at any point after your freshman year you can expect that most 5-year programs will start you at 2nd year status - at least for studio. This means that you might end up taking more than 5 years total getting the B.Arch - which may mean that it ends up being as or more expensive ultimately than the M.Arch route.
Thank you everyone for your advise, I am still a freshman, so transfering is high on my list, but i'm still figuring out all my options.
katastrophe:
Schools are all academic. The antonym of academic is pragmatic. If you are in school you cannot learn about the real world, only the academic world as viewed by academics. Having said that, you still need to get past the academic door, so just get on with it, and get it behind you. If you can, get a Doctorate, as that will open more doors and you will find you do not need to sign any drawings to be the actual "Architect," as some land developers are really on a par with Architects. Currently there is so much emphasis on CAD that few students learn anything about buildings, occupants, planning, constrution or getting the project complete. About half of the recent grads leave Arch school for computer graphic careers paying 2x to 3x architecture grads.
If you want the real world, you need to know how buildings are really built, how they are owned, what occupants want and need, and how buildings work after they are completed.
I have been licensed in CA and AZ for 45 yrs, and NCARB for 35 yr. I recommend staying with ART and ART HISTORY, and really learning how to draw exceptionally well with a pencil. Take courses outside of school in Real Estate Licensure, and General Contractor Licensure and pass their exams (only don't get licensed). Get some economic courses and basic accounting--you will need to be a whiz with cost analysis and documentation.
You would be amazed how many Bankers design marginal buildings that are dysfunctional on the basis of their finance "decisions" and "opinions," which you will always need to successfully counter with statistics, facts and documentation--bring them back to pragmatic reality as the finance decision is critical to success and Bankers need to be on the team.
The same is true of GCs and Realtors who define architecture as: Plan Preparation and Obtaining Entitlements. (This explains a lot of the built world as architects are usually only involved with 20% of all building construction.) You need to talk in their jargon as they will not understand Architect jargon, any more than Engineers.
When I was a student (at a well-known CA school), a visiting French Architect said "if you are going to be a successful Architect, you will need to know everything about everything." Still very true today.
UCSC is OK, it is only what you decide to make out of it. Any school you are in will be no better than your intellectual and emotional investment. Don't lose time transferring. Be creative right now at UCSC. You are responsible to make your world wonderful yourself. That is the lesson you will eventually learn, why not now, why not right where you are?
Optimism and persistence is everything. Good luck.
While I don't disagree with everything JM Kay just said, I take strong exception to both these statements:
"Currently there is so much emphasis on CAD that few students learn anything about buildings, occupants, planning, constrution or getting the project complete. About half of the recent grads leave Arch school for computer graphic careers paying 2x to 3x architecture grads."
JM Kay, you must not know much about contemporary architecture school. Many don't even formally teach CAD at all--and to suggest that school is all about computers is absurd; of course you learn about occupants, buildings, and construction in school. If you are involved with NCARB you should know the stringent requirements on that head. Where are you getting your assertions from? Also, design school does emphasize design, yes; precisely because you cannot get that kind of learning in the workforce. If you follow the french architect's advice, then heading to school for design helps you learn everything about everything, does it not?
And as for the claim that half of recent architecture grads go into computer graphic careers, honestly I find that outlandish. Can you cite evidence to support this? Even if you're talking about recent grads who literally decide to model for a year in NYC to have fun and make money, I would still be surprised at the claim that half of arch grads do this. And of those who do I'm willing to bet that many continue on to careers in architecture anyway.
I'll also disagree with the worth of a PhD as a practitioner- they tend to close more doors then open - you limit yourself to being an overinflated brain, not a designer/practicing architect.
M.Archs seem to be the best deal these days, that said figuring out the best school for yourself is hard...
As a freshman, stop worrying so much about your future. get laid, get drunk. become an interesting person. everything else will follow.
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