I was told about an article online that outlined the ten dumbest utopian city ideas but haven't been able to find it. I was wondering if anyone here has read something like this and could direct me to where I might find it.
I THINK THAT LIST COULD BE PART OF THE 10 DUMBEST LISTS.
i like most of those ideas, though i don't nessecarily find them realistic. i agree with doberman, utopia is a necessity.
I wouldn't define nazi germany as utopia, rather as a criminal doctrine. But if you were to define it as form of utopia then you are right it is an extremely evil one.
My post refered more to the defintion of utopia as a place where we'd all be together and that doesn't exist but where we should all try to get to collectively. Some sort of ideal society, something we strive to achieve collectively. Of course we'll never reach that goal but our permanent quest for it will result in the permanent improvement of our fate and condition. Hence the beauty (and in my humble opinion) the necesity of utopia.
ah, but some would debate whether a collective society is an ideal society at all. it is not a valid argument to say: if we are all pointed in the same direction, we are pointed in the right direction. the nazi example is apt. a LOT of people in germany turned around to point in the direction of the "final solution". the fact that others did not...is obviously not the reason that the "final solution" was wrong.
nobody ever wants to finish atlas shrugged, so i guess that's why galt's gulch never made it onto that writer's list that was linked above. it's similar to the libertarias that science-fiction libertarians have posited. everyone in galt's gulch is striving for a shared goal...yes, but that shared goal is simply the goal of freedom to have individual goals.
it's odd, actually, that these cities that conjure such emotion and affection in the hearts of architects -- are as far away from (e)utopias as you can get. and the suburbs which are the furthest and most successful that american society has ever gotten in terms of creating socially engineered utopias -- are widely reviled.
what the difference be? that the suburban utopia, with its emphasis on lowest-common-denominator conformity, seeming absence of aesthetic quality, and size and style over substance...is not being controlled by architects. if le corbusier had outright designed cabrini-green (rather than indirectly via the chicago housing authority and hack modernists), perhaps it would have been spared the wrecking ball that it so profoundly deserved and received.
'utopia is never dumb. it's a necessity. It's in trying to reach impossible goals that we improve our condition.'
I disagree. Huxley's 'utopia' in Brave New World sums it up for me; there would be a high price to pay for any utopia. I think the concept alone is kind of an absurdity, a dangerous whitewashing of the complexities of the human condition.
my point is that utopia is precisely something that by definition can not be real.
when you say that there would be a high price to pay for any utopia then you assume that it has become factual. which again by essence it can not be. as soon as it materializes itself then you're no longer in the realm of utopia and you risk stepping into oppression and dictatorship, communism being a blatant example of this. the implementation of utopia is by nature impossible. everything lies in the definition of the word i think. but i do take the points being made about the dangers of artifically and arbitrarily forcing utopian ieas onto people which by nature destroys the very concept of Utopia.
read jameson's 'archeologies of the future' - book from last year, with brilliant new long essay by him 'the desire called utopia' and his collected writings on utopia and science fiction. a good bits on architecture, but mostly the politics of collective being.
also, for those who agree that utopia is an important critical discourse, read his 'politics of utopia' in new left review, from Jan 2004 (it's on the website!)
what annoys me about the '10 dumbest' site (apart from the inclusion of the situationist) is that it accepts the usual cliche about More's book: if you read it More describes in detail a class divided society on his journey. it is an oppositional site, against the realities of england our narrator has left behind, bringing these realities into sharper definition. it is not a proposal as such
indeed, i cannot believe that walden two never made it. especially since an attempt to replicate it actually occured/is occuring at walden seven...come on, y'all know this one...
Ten dumbest utopian proposals...
I was told about an article online that outlined the ten dumbest utopian city ideas but haven't been able to find it. I was wondering if anyone here has read something like this and could direct me to where I might find it.
i was a bit dissapointed the situationist made the list.
many thanks.
Awww.. but I love constant....
utopia is never dumb. it's a necessity. It's in trying to reach impossible goals that we improve our condition.
i think nazi germany was a pretty dumb utopia, don't you think?
I THINK THAT LIST COULD BE PART OF THE 10 DUMBEST LISTS.
i like most of those ideas, though i don't nessecarily find them realistic. i agree with doberman, utopia is a necessity.
dot
I wouldn't define nazi germany as utopia, rather as a criminal doctrine. But if you were to define it as form of utopia then you are right it is an extremely evil one.
My post refered more to the defintion of utopia as a place where we'd all be together and that doesn't exist but where we should all try to get to collectively. Some sort of ideal society, something we strive to achieve collectively. Of course we'll never reach that goal but our permanent quest for it will result in the permanent improvement of our fate and condition. Hence the beauty (and in my humble opinion) the necesity of utopia.
ah, but some would debate whether a collective society is an ideal society at all. it is not a valid argument to say: if we are all pointed in the same direction, we are pointed in the right direction. the nazi example is apt. a LOT of people in germany turned around to point in the direction of the "final solution". the fact that others did not...is obviously not the reason that the "final solution" was wrong.
nobody ever wants to finish atlas shrugged, so i guess that's why galt's gulch never made it onto that writer's list that was linked above. it's similar to the libertarias that science-fiction libertarians have posited. everyone in galt's gulch is striving for a shared goal...yes, but that shared goal is simply the goal of freedom to have individual goals.
it's odd, actually, that these cities that conjure such emotion and affection in the hearts of architects -- are as far away from (e)utopias as you can get. and the suburbs which are the furthest and most successful that american society has ever gotten in terms of creating socially engineered utopias -- are widely reviled.
what the difference be? that the suburban utopia, with its emphasis on lowest-common-denominator conformity, seeming absence of aesthetic quality, and size and style over substance...is not being controlled by architects. if le corbusier had outright designed cabrini-green (rather than indirectly via the chicago housing authority and hack modernists), perhaps it would have been spared the wrecking ball that it so profoundly deserved and received.
i finished atlas shrugged. i guess galt's gulch seemed utopian for some. kind of like a gated community?
Ick. Rand makes my skin crawl.
Walden Two is absolutely the dumbest utopia ever. Im also surprised superstudio didnt make the list...
How about dystopias while were on the topic, like the move Brazil which I just saw for the first.
Anyone have their favourite dystopia?
'utopia is never dumb. it's a necessity. It's in trying to reach impossible goals that we improve our condition.'
I disagree. Huxley's 'utopia' in Brave New World sums it up for me; there would be a high price to pay for any utopia. I think the concept alone is kind of an absurdity, a dangerous whitewashing of the complexities of the human condition.
my point is that utopia is precisely something that by definition can not be real.
when you say that there would be a high price to pay for any utopia then you assume that it has become factual. which again by essence it can not be. as soon as it materializes itself then you're no longer in the realm of utopia and you risk stepping into oppression and dictatorship, communism being a blatant example of this. the implementation of utopia is by nature impossible. everything lies in the definition of the word i think. but i do take the points being made about the dangers of artifically and arbitrarily forcing utopian ieas onto people which by nature destroys the very concept of Utopia.
read jameson's 'archeologies of the future' - book from last year, with brilliant new long essay by him 'the desire called utopia' and his collected writings on utopia and science fiction. a good bits on architecture, but mostly the politics of collective being.
also, for those who agree that utopia is an important critical discourse, read his 'politics of utopia' in new left review, from Jan 2004 (it's on the website!)
also, zizek has a good essay called 'fantasy: a political category', in his Reader by the people at Blackwell
what annoys me about the '10 dumbest' site (apart from the inclusion of the situationist) is that it accepts the usual cliche about More's book: if you read it More describes in detail a class divided society on his journey. it is an oppositional site, against the realities of england our narrator has left behind, bringing these realities into sharper definition. it is not a proposal as such
indeed, i cannot believe that walden two never made it. especially since an attempt to replicate it actually occured/is occuring at walden seven...come on, y'all know this one...
ochona, where is that? i don't know it. what was utopian about it?
reminds me superficially of 'habitat' in montreal. but habitat has flexi boxes, etc, is not that tall and so on
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