I am 26 and returning to college for the third time (OU because it's in state). After contemplating careers in theology, social work, community development, sommelier training and several other areas I have decided to finish something for once in my life and specialize.
In the next 5-7 years I hope to get my M.Arch. Other than a handful of obligatory witticisms and gratuitous derision, is there anyhing helpful I should know or start to think about. (besides the obvious fact that it is not the best idea to start your career in your early 30's) Also helpful to know of anyone else who started later in life. Play nice please.
if it is not the best idea to start (/restart) your career in your 30s then I, and a lot of other people I know, are pretty screwed.
my point of view at the moment is, How on earth can anyone actually know what they want to do BEFORE their 30s? a few people get lucky and head down the right path from the start, but career changing seems rather the norm these days than otherwise.
there is not a lot of background in your post about what drew you to architecture after studying all those other things. I am perhaps more willing than most to give people the benefit of the doubt in this area, because I've worked various jobs and am interested in a pretty insanely wide range of topics. for me, design is a way to synthesize a lot of my obsessions, and hopefully be in a world where I get to keep learning new stuff forever.
however, for me this has always been in the context of working, not endlessly going to school. in fact I avoided going back to school as long as I possibly could, and still keep academia at arm's length, because I see in myself the potential to be one of those people who are addicted to school.
from your post, it seems like you could be a school addict yourself. if so, it might be healthier to get going working in the field (even if only answering phones) for a while rather than burying yourself back into the classroom.
starting an architectural career a bit later is no big deal. the only trick is that people(including your bosses) may think you know more than you really do. my advice for anyone who is thinking about going to architecture school is to get exposure to a real office. cuz its not like school, its not like the architecture magazines, its not like architect characters that you see in the movies. give a few offices a call, make some visits, if you can swing it, offer to work their to get a bit of exposure to the field. this will give you a more balanced view of what the profession really is.
You guys aren't really as mean as you seem. Thanks for the feedback. One of my problems would be that I'm not sure what kind of quid a "proposal/office/phone/coffee" monkey might start out making. A large drop in my income really isn't feasible right now. And how exactly does one march into an architecture firm and say hi, I'd like to be your errand boy for the next couple years and can I get 10 dollars an hour or more from ya?And I live in Oklahoma City, which may not be a problem but seems like it should be.
joshua, I am kind of in the same boat. I am transitioning from Software Engineering to Architecture. I make a really good living right now, and it is a difficult decision to make. If I want to make the jump, I'll have to shift from a financially stable life to working in a firm as a Cad monkey or an errand boy making peanuts - not my cup of tea, but then again we all have to start somewhere and make sacrifices – it's the price we have to pay. I guess it boils down to - how badly do you want it?
>>I'm not sure what kind of quid a "proposal/office/phone/coffee" monkey might start out making. A large drop in my income really isn't feasible right now.
as katze points out, sacrifice is often necessary if you want to make a change that you consider worthwhile.
if you really want to make a career change and make it stick, you have to take stock of what you have, what you want, and what you could give up to get what you want. utter ruthlessness is necessary here.
you haven't said what you do now, what draws you to architecture, what exposure to the field or contacts you might already have.
if you want to know what kind of jobs are available in arch/design firms for someone with your skill set (you haven't said what it is), check out some job postings. go to seminars, workshops, etc. and talk to people. call up some firms and ask for informational interviews. ask much more specific questions on this board than you've been asking.
yeah by 10$ I meant the minimum I would like to make an hour to be worked to death. I have a 2 year practical theology degree, an irreverent amount of wine knowledge and a love of design. I am a bartender/sommelier at a high end steakhouse. I know a few people in great advertising jobs. I know alot of people with alot of money.
more specific Q's
What is co-op and how does it work?
How important is what school I attend?
What type of things should I learn independently to get me started (programs, books, etc.)?
joshua, we have something in common – I am also an ex-sommelier – planned for the London Master Sommelier certification testing but then architecture consumed my passion; somewhat off the subject, but what are some of your favorite wines, varietals?
To answer some of your questions, I think school choice is important, but then again, it is what you make of it. I have attended Ivy League and not so Ivy League and the bottom line is that you have to apply yourself and prove yourself regardless of the program.
As for what type of things you should focus on to get you started – read as much as you can about architecture; then try conceptualizing your processes – buy a sketchbook and jot down your ideas; then take these ideas and try to build them in two and three-dimensional spaces. Utilize various methods available to you – paper, fabricated materials, cardboard (whatever is available) then convey your ideas in software applications (AutoCad, SketchUp, whatever). The important thing is to convey your thought process on how to get to point A (sketches and ideas) to process B and above (2-D & 3-D representation and modeling).
I would add to katze's list, in addition to reading about architecture - go experience it, examine buildings you like (and ones you DON'T like.) photograph them (but watch out for security!), draw them, observe what's happening in and around them. don't rely soley on books and architecture mags for your understanding of what's really happening out there.
great info..keep it coming.
As far as wine I like Italian reds. Brunello di Montalcino, Anything made from Nebbiolo, like a Barbaresco if I can afford it/ a Inferno (lombardy) or a Nebbiolo Langhe if I can't. French I prefer a great Chateauneuf-du-Pape or even a cheap Chateauneuf for that matter. I heart Vieux Telegraph. oh, Burgundies red or white.Puligny Montrachet( the only chards I really enjoy).Viogner.white rhones.BUBBLES! oh, and Madiran if I feel like getting bullied by a burly bottle of red .Dislike most Australians (too much alcohol content). Robert Parker needs to lay off the scotch and cigars so his tastebuds aren't so burnt out. I don't really dislike any wine. Is that too obvious? How about you?
tried recently any enjoyed
Luna Merlot Napa
Von Strasser Cab Diamond Mountain
Constant Cab Diamond Mountain
02' Caymus Cab
Val di Suga Brunello di montalcino
Bonny Doon Heart of Darkness Madiran
Teruzzi &Puthold Terra di Tufi
Pride Viogner
sorry joshua, but say goodbye to good wine for a while when you get into architecture. even the gallery openings/exhibitions usually have shoddy wine....but after a while you slowly are able to afford 'the good stuff' again.
haven't had more than half the wines you list, getting into greek wine
now, a bit different, just had a bottle of Megas Oenos Red, 2003, unique blend.
i went to archi school a bit later in life too. don't worry. good luck.
Damn, joshua I think I've found a new friend!! You certainly have good taste in wine. I was hoping you weren't going to recommend something like Asti Spumante or the equivalent. Anyway, here are some of my all time favorites – the Poggio All'ORO 1990 - Brunello di Montalcino – kicks ass and received (I believe) a perfect score from the Wine Spectator. Another all-time fgavorite - Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape 1999. Also, Caymus & Opus rocks. I could go on forever.
You should try that Luna Merlot it's maybe 20$ and the finish and soft tannins are incredible! Boutari is a big name but their narrossa (sp?) is the only greek I've had. pretty tasty. Hey Schmitt Schone makes a new Relax Red...nevermind see now I'll never be able to get off the subject Thanks Katze.(good taste yourself there)
P.S Downloaded the free copy of SketchUp from google last night. fun fun fun
I'll definitely check out your wine suggestions - thanks! I have to find an Australian wine that might appease you. Don't give up on Australian wines – there are some decent ones out there and I'll find you an example – what does Parker know anyway, right?
Glad to hear you are having fun with StetchUp - have a blast and create something awesome:)
I am also making a career Change (in my 3o's) I dont see it as a big one for me...But I have a Bachelor of Industrial design... I work for an MEP Engineering firm making 48k a year....at first I felt I was probably too old to go back to school...But I love Design and Decided to go towards Architecture.....And I just Started M.Arch1......I dont know if I will Stay in the Architecture Field after done with my education(due to average Salary Wage in the field)...But I love to Learn Architecture..........Because its the Ultimate level of Design....Architecture opens the door to various fields....But like I said I was not sure If Iwanted to go back to School because I felt to Old For School....But I know and have Read here on Archinect.That its a very common thing to start late in you career....The only time I hear people talking Smack is when someone Who has a BArch..Wants to Say that That its the best and should be the only way...Which I disagree.. Because if you Expolre different fields and experiment with different Ideas it will help you to be sure of your true carrer path and destiny as appose to deciding half way that it really wasent what you wanted.And if you look at the NAAB Course Req.. The BArch and the MArch Have the Same Core Requirements...The Barch differs with General Ed and Electives....But the COre Classes Are the Same .(differ at Campus the way its Taught..but Overall falls under same req.)
So its never too late.....
For what its worth... I love the Tisdale they sell down at 7-11. No kidding - for 3.99 its the best deal I've found. As punky asserted - cheap wines may be in your future. But don't let the whole "architects aren't paid much" thing get you down. We all went through it - and it is true! But if we had wanted to be plumbers and millionaires, we would have done that instaid. We are paid in intellectual currencies which are not traded on any major forex exchange.
I have some thoughts about your career moves, but before pontificating, would like to ask you what has drawn you to the notion of persuing a career in architecture.?.
A quote from Citypages which (in my unsophisticated book) validates my opinions on Tilsdale:
"Because if a kid today has only three bucks--I'm not lying!--she can trot herself down to Chicago Lake Liquors and sample something from Tisdale Vineyards (the wines are normally priced at $5, but have been on sale for $3). I tried the Shiraz, which is, for the money, jaw-dropping: Plush, weighty, well balanced, concentrated, full, plummy, spicy, and rich. The Merlot is very nice, too: Nice acid, plenty of oak and spice giving it backbone, lots of ripe fruit. The Chardonnay is pleasant: Crisp, clean, lemony, not at all over-oaked. When I think of all the lousy party wines I've had over the years, I just want to drop a bottle of Tisdale on the doorstep of every event planner in town. If this is the new baseline of wine, we're in great shape."
Tilsdale - you are killing me leander37!!! Go with the 2003 Jackaroo "Big Red". It’s a blend of Cabernet, Shiraz & Merlot is certainly qualified to call itself Big Red. The land down under has produced some great wine bargains in the past but this one is in a class by itself. Readily drinkable after four years in the bottle this wine opens with a large nose, spicy and inviting. The blackberry fruit is full without being a jammy fruit bomb - the structure is large and it carries the flavors throughout the long tantalizing finish. And if you live near a Trader Joes, it's on sale for $3.99 right now. Run out and buy a case. Ok, that's my wine review for the day.
Trader Joes is heaven on earth. I like 5$ wine. But if I'm going cheap a bottle of jug burgundy will do just fine.
P.S please pontificate it's more fun than me telling. I will note I hold no connections with any pontiff if the wine and theology are your connection. Hey ....I lived in Leander once.
Oct 17, 06 12:08 am ·
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In The Beginning....
I am 26 and returning to college for the third time (OU because it's in state). After contemplating careers in theology, social work, community development, sommelier training and several other areas I have decided to finish something for once in my life and specialize.
In the next 5-7 years I hope to get my M.Arch. Other than a handful of obligatory witticisms and gratuitous derision, is there anyhing helpful I should know or start to think about. (besides the obvious fact that it is not the best idea to start your career in your early 30's) Also helpful to know of anyone else who started later in life. Play nice please.
while in school, work at architecture offices! internship, part time, whatever.
if it is not the best idea to start (/restart) your career in your 30s then I, and a lot of other people I know, are pretty screwed.
my point of view at the moment is, How on earth can anyone actually know what they want to do BEFORE their 30s? a few people get lucky and head down the right path from the start, but career changing seems rather the norm these days than otherwise.
there is not a lot of background in your post about what drew you to architecture after studying all those other things. I am perhaps more willing than most to give people the benefit of the doubt in this area, because I've worked various jobs and am interested in a pretty insanely wide range of topics. for me, design is a way to synthesize a lot of my obsessions, and hopefully be in a world where I get to keep learning new stuff forever.
however, for me this has always been in the context of working, not endlessly going to school. in fact I avoided going back to school as long as I possibly could, and still keep academia at arm's length, because I see in myself the potential to be one of those people who are addicted to school.
from your post, it seems like you could be a school addict yourself. if so, it might be healthier to get going working in the field (even if only answering phones) for a while rather than burying yourself back into the classroom.
starting an architectural career a bit later is no big deal. the only trick is that people(including your bosses) may think you know more than you really do. my advice for anyone who is thinking about going to architecture school is to get exposure to a real office. cuz its not like school, its not like the architecture magazines, its not like architect characters that you see in the movies. give a few offices a call, make some visits, if you can swing it, offer to work their to get a bit of exposure to the field. this will give you a more balanced view of what the profession really is.
You guys aren't really as mean as you seem. Thanks for the feedback. One of my problems would be that I'm not sure what kind of quid a "proposal/office/phone/coffee" monkey might start out making. A large drop in my income really isn't feasible right now. And how exactly does one march into an architecture firm and say hi, I'd like to be your errand boy for the next couple years and can I get 10 dollars an hour or more from ya?And I live in Oklahoma City, which may not be a problem but seems like it should be.
joshua, I am kind of in the same boat. I am transitioning from Software Engineering to Architecture. I make a really good living right now, and it is a difficult decision to make. If I want to make the jump, I'll have to shift from a financially stable life to working in a firm as a Cad monkey or an errand boy making peanuts - not my cup of tea, but then again we all have to start somewhere and make sacrifices – it's the price we have to pay. I guess it boils down to - how badly do you want it?
>>I'm not sure what kind of quid a "proposal/office/phone/coffee" monkey might start out making. A large drop in my income really isn't feasible right now.
as katze points out, sacrifice is often necessary if you want to make a change that you consider worthwhile.
if you really want to make a career change and make it stick, you have to take stock of what you have, what you want, and what you could give up to get what you want. utter ruthlessness is necessary here.
you haven't said what you do now, what draws you to architecture, what exposure to the field or contacts you might already have.
if you want to know what kind of jobs are available in arch/design firms for someone with your skill set (you haven't said what it is), check out some job postings. go to seminars, workshops, etc. and talk to people. call up some firms and ask for informational interviews. ask much more specific questions on this board than you've been asking.
don't sit around guessing.
$10/hour with no education and/or experience? keep dreaming. volunteering is probably more realistic.
yeah by 10$ I meant the minimum I would like to make an hour to be worked to death. I have a 2 year practical theology degree, an irreverent amount of wine knowledge and a love of design. I am a bartender/sommelier at a high end steakhouse. I know a few people in great advertising jobs. I know alot of people with alot of money.
more specific Q's
What is co-op and how does it work?
How important is what school I attend?
What type of things should I learn independently to get me started (programs, books, etc.)?
What are some other sources for jobs/ info that you use?
joshua, we have something in common – I am also an ex-sommelier – planned for the London Master Sommelier certification testing but then architecture consumed my passion; somewhat off the subject, but what are some of your favorite wines, varietals?
To answer some of your questions, I think school choice is important, but then again, it is what you make of it. I have attended Ivy League and not so Ivy League and the bottom line is that you have to apply yourself and prove yourself regardless of the program.
As for what type of things you should focus on to get you started – read as much as you can about architecture; then try conceptualizing your processes – buy a sketchbook and jot down your ideas; then take these ideas and try to build them in two and three-dimensional spaces. Utilize various methods available to you – paper, fabricated materials, cardboard (whatever is available) then convey your ideas in software applications (AutoCad, SketchUp, whatever). The important thing is to convey your thought process on how to get to point A (sketches and ideas) to process B and above (2-D & 3-D representation and modeling).
Good luck!
I would add to katze's list, in addition to reading about architecture - go experience it, examine buildings you like (and ones you DON'T like.) photograph them (but watch out for security!), draw them, observe what's happening in and around them. don't rely soley on books and architecture mags for your understanding of what's really happening out there.
great info..keep it coming.
As far as wine I like Italian reds. Brunello di Montalcino, Anything made from Nebbiolo, like a Barbaresco if I can afford it/ a Inferno (lombardy) or a Nebbiolo Langhe if I can't. French I prefer a great Chateauneuf-du-Pape or even a cheap Chateauneuf for that matter. I heart Vieux Telegraph. oh, Burgundies red or white.Puligny Montrachet( the only chards I really enjoy).Viogner.white rhones.BUBBLES! oh, and Madiran if I feel like getting bullied by a burly bottle of red .Dislike most Australians (too much alcohol content). Robert Parker needs to lay off the scotch and cigars so his tastebuds aren't so burnt out. I don't really dislike any wine. Is that too obvious? How about you?
tried recently any enjoyed
Luna Merlot Napa
Von Strasser Cab Diamond Mountain
Constant Cab Diamond Mountain
02' Caymus Cab
Val di Suga Brunello di montalcino
Bonny Doon Heart of Darkness Madiran
Teruzzi &Puthold Terra di Tufi
Pride Viogner
sorry joshua, but say goodbye to good wine for a while when you get into architecture. even the gallery openings/exhibitions usually have shoddy wine....but after a while you slowly are able to afford 'the good stuff' again.
haven't had more than half the wines you list, getting into greek wine
now, a bit different, just had a bottle of Megas Oenos Red, 2003, unique blend.
i went to archi school a bit later in life too. don't worry. good luck.
Damn, joshua I think I've found a new friend!! You certainly have good taste in wine. I was hoping you weren't going to recommend something like Asti Spumante or the equivalent. Anyway, here are some of my all time favorites – the Poggio All'ORO 1990 - Brunello di Montalcino – kicks ass and received (I believe) a perfect score from the Wine Spectator. Another all-time fgavorite - Beaucastel Chateauneuf-du-Pape 1999. Also, Caymus & Opus rocks. I could go on forever.
Here are some of my recent pics:
BYINGTON CABERNET SAUVIGNON 2003
MOUNTAIN VIEW CHARDONNAY 2004
PONZI PINOT NOIR NON-VINTAGE
TRUMPETER MALBEC-SYRAH 2004
MONTES CABERNET-CARMENERE 2004
RIDGE CHARDONNAY 2004
CASTANO MOURVEDRE 2004
CARTLIDGE & BROWN SHIRAZ-SYRAH 2002
PRIDE VIOGNER 2005
You should try that Luna Merlot it's maybe 20$ and the finish and soft tannins are incredible! Boutari is a big name but their narrossa (sp?) is the only greek I've had. pretty tasty. Hey Schmitt Schone makes a new Relax Red...nevermind see now I'll never be able to get off the subject Thanks Katze.(good taste yourself there)
P.S Downloaded the free copy of SketchUp from google last night. fun fun fun
I'll definitely check out your wine suggestions - thanks! I have to find an Australian wine that might appease you. Don't give up on Australian wines – there are some decent ones out there and I'll find you an example – what does Parker know anyway, right?
Glad to hear you are having fun with StetchUp - have a blast and create something awesome:)
I am also making a career Change (in my 3o's) I dont see it as a big one for me...But I have a Bachelor of Industrial design... I work for an MEP Engineering firm making 48k a year....at first I felt I was probably too old to go back to school...But I love Design and Decided to go towards Architecture.....And I just Started M.Arch1......I dont know if I will Stay in the Architecture Field after done with my education(due to average Salary Wage in the field)...But I love to Learn Architecture..........Because its the Ultimate level of Design....Architecture opens the door to various fields....But like I said I was not sure If Iwanted to go back to School because I felt to Old For School....But I know and have Read here on Archinect.That its a very common thing to start late in you career....The only time I hear people talking Smack is when someone Who has a BArch..Wants to Say that That its the best and should be the only way...Which I disagree.. Because if you Expolre different fields and experiment with different Ideas it will help you to be sure of your true carrer path and destiny as appose to deciding half way that it really wasent what you wanted.And if you look at the NAAB Course Req.. The BArch and the MArch Have the Same Core Requirements...The Barch differs with General Ed and Electives....But the COre Classes Are the Same .(differ at Campus the way its Taught..but Overall falls under same req.)
So its never too late.....
For what its worth... I love the Tisdale they sell down at 7-11. No kidding - for 3.99 its the best deal I've found. As punky asserted - cheap wines may be in your future. But don't let the whole "architects aren't paid much" thing get you down. We all went through it - and it is true! But if we had wanted to be plumbers and millionaires, we would have done that instaid. We are paid in intellectual currencies which are not traded on any major forex exchange.
I have some thoughts about your career moves, but before pontificating, would like to ask you what has drawn you to the notion of persuing a career in architecture.?.
I will pontificate on demand.
A quote from Citypages which (in my unsophisticated book) validates my opinions on Tilsdale:
"Because if a kid today has only three bucks--I'm not lying!--she can trot herself down to Chicago Lake Liquors and sample something from Tisdale Vineyards (the wines are normally priced at $5, but have been on sale for $3). I tried the Shiraz, which is, for the money, jaw-dropping: Plush, weighty, well balanced, concentrated, full, plummy, spicy, and rich. The Merlot is very nice, too: Nice acid, plenty of oak and spice giving it backbone, lots of ripe fruit. The Chardonnay is pleasant: Crisp, clean, lemony, not at all over-oaked. When I think of all the lousy party wines I've had over the years, I just want to drop a bottle of Tisdale on the doorstep of every event planner in town. If this is the new baseline of wine, we're in great shape."
Tilsdale - you are killing me leander37!!! Go with the 2003 Jackaroo "Big Red". It’s a blend of Cabernet, Shiraz & Merlot is certainly qualified to call itself Big Red. The land down under has produced some great wine bargains in the past but this one is in a class by itself. Readily drinkable after four years in the bottle this wine opens with a large nose, spicy and inviting. The blackberry fruit is full without being a jammy fruit bomb - the structure is large and it carries the flavors throughout the long tantalizing finish. And if you live near a Trader Joes, it's on sale for $3.99 right now. Run out and buy a case. Ok, that's my wine review for the day.
Trader Joes is heaven on earth. I like 5$ wine. But if I'm going cheap a bottle of jug burgundy will do just fine.
P.S please pontificate it's more fun than me telling. I will note I hold no connections with any pontiff if the wine and theology are your connection. Hey ....I lived in Leander once.
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