I'm going to have a second interview with a very good firm with several hundreds of people. I don't want to blow the chance, but want to be well compensate. Some background about me, 8-9 years of working experiences in USA, 3 years in Beijing, China. I have B.Arch in China, and a M.S degree in USA. I'm licensed and LEED certified. I'm very good at sketch up, computer rendering, presentation, also I know how to put drawings together, coordinate consulatants, designing all the related details. I think I'm well round person, and very efficient and motivated. I'm not sure in Seattle Area how much should I ask with my level of experiences, since it is a bit complex. I would really appreciate your input on this. Thank you!
AIA salary survey from 2005 in the Seattle metro area shows a Project Manager's mean salary as $68,700, upper quartile is $74,300.
Senior Designer mean salary is$ 65,200 and $74,400 for upper quartile.
Thanks for the info. I just went to AIA and to my suprise the number they have is quite low:
In Seattle Are:
Senior Arch: 55,000-74,000
Arch III:60,000-62,200
but those salary numbers take that into account. That's why I give the mean # and the higher one, so you can assess your skills, firm type, role etc.
I don't think you are an Arch III by the way. Arch III is 8-10 years exp. You have 3 in Beijing plus 8-9 in USA, so 11-12 years. Bump up to the next category which is either Senior designer/architect or Project Manager which is the numbers I gave you.
Sometimes this data doesn't make sense actually, I was looking at the numbers you posted for Arch III and verifying it with my stats. How can the lower quartile be 60,000, the upper be 62,200 and the median be 58,400. I thought mean meant average! Also, the lower quartile (55,000) for Senior Arch is lower than the Arch III (60,000)! By definition, the Senior Arch is more experienced, has more responsibilities beyond the Arch III!
Strawbeary, Thanks for the detailed explaination. Actually I realized I worked 7-8 years in USA, plus 3 years, still 10-11 years. Still not sure if I'm a senior, I don't have management skill yet. But that is a good point, to move up the number a bit.
OldFogey, thanks for the inside stories. Actually I have several coworkers who used to work at LMN. And a friend of mine used to work there, but got laid off with a few others in the same team. I heard Calison paid pretty well. But a coworker had bad experiences there. NBBJ pay intern very low compare to other firms, not sure other levels.
Don't let the "no state income tax" thing fool you. Seattle's cost of living is expensive (maybe not as expensive as NYC, LA, SF, etc), but you'll be paying a lot in rent and the state sales tax is 8.8%
I've had friends move from smaller design firms to Callison in order to make cash in order to afford a down payment on a house, car, or save up for grad school.
I'm getting out soon - there's no way the wife and I can afford a house even remotely close to downtown.
Don't let the "no state income tax" thing fool you. Seattle's cost of living is expensive (maybe not as expensive as NYC, LA, SF, etc), but you'll be paying a lot in rent and the state sales tax is 8.8%
I've had friends move from smaller design firms to Callison in order to make cash in order to afford a down payment on a house, car, or save up for grad school.
I'm getting out soon - there's no way the wife and I can afford a house even remotely close to downtown.
dml955i, I agree the living expense is quite hign in Seattle, and I heard the architect salary in Seattle is very low compare to other cities, because there are too many of them here. My friend at Atlanta makes more than I do here and the housing there is almost half the price. But I have to stay here, my husband works here too. Good luck!
you are correct dml. i don't find the cost of living that bad though. i believe that it is in-line and/or less than other major metropolitan areas. living in the city comes with a price.
Sounds like a plan - although the Mars Bar is too close to NBBJ territory!
I've been enjoying that new bar, "King" over in Ballard - they've got pounders of Rainier for two bucks! Perfect for the under paid & under appreciated Seattle Archinect-er!!!
judging from your experience and location (mine is similar), I hope you go in asking for at least 70 +. I just looked at the salary poll one the site and it is horrible what people settle for. Anybody making less than 50 should just quit. We have to ask, How much time and money did you spend in school. As of 2005 there were just a little over 110,000 licensed architects in the country. There are probably that many lawyers in Cal or NY alone. I remember reading that only 2000 arch students graduate a year. There really are not that many architects out there. There is a demand, every day the baby boomers are retiring, do not settle. It isn't the firms fault they pay so little. Unless firms are pressured to pay more, fees will never go up and neither will pay.
Arch500, good points. I know there is the high demand for architects now. I should get your answer earlier. I will ask more in my next interview I guess. But I just suspect some firms may not be able to afford that.
not to be an apologist for firms, but wages are determined primarily by market factors ... sure, there's a scarcity of experienced 8-12 year people right now and that's pushing up wages when people move from one position to another ... but, there's a flip-side to that perspective.
when the pendulum swings (and, it ALWAYS swings) many, if not most, firms downsize to some degree. those decisions always are tough, but - in my experience - firms look carefully at their staff and assess who's "career minded and loyal" vs. those who are "free agents, selling their services to the hightest bidder" -- there may not be a wide difference (if any) between what the firm is paying these people, but the first group tends to be kept around and the second group tends to be the group from which lay-off decisions are made - especially those who are paid significantly above comparably experienced personnel already in the firm.
it can be a tough world out there ... don't make it tougher on yourself by trying to squeeze out the very last dollar from your prospective employer ... they actually may not need you that badly.
at our firm, we've simply stopped responding to unrealistic salary demands from candidates ... we'll just tell selected clients we can't help them right now, rather than build up a staff of overpaid professionals who we're pretty sure we cannot sustatain indefinitely.
it's a myth that we -- as a profession -- have much bargaining power when it comes to fees. our clients simply don't care much that our costs go up. if one firm won't meet their fee level demands, they'll find another who will.
quizzical, good points. That why I wonder if some firms can afford the high pay. It is go back to how much they get from the clients. But how acurate is the survey is another question, and how variable people make actually comparing to the survey, it is hard to tell. I know a graduate students with 4 years expereinces make $47,000 with a very good design firm. I made less then that even after I licensed few years ago. That makes me wonder what really counts.
the survey blends a range of responses and so it's useful to also look at the upper and lower quartiles provided. at best, the surveys can only provide general guidance to both the candidate and the employer.
as candidates point out to me all the time, "years-since-graduation" is only a partial indicator of what someone CAN do. and, that's true. employers must look beyond the resume to discover the candidate's true abilities ... what is the real nature of the candidate's experience ... what has the candidate actually accomplished in a work environment.
we see candidates who are mature beyond their years and who can produce results of an extraordinary nature. we are prepared to pay those candidates well above the norms suggested by the surveys.
we also see candiates who've been out of school for 6-years and who clearly have just been occupying a chair for most of that time without obvious growth or results. those candidates don't even receive offers -- at any wage level. yet, i'm constantly amazed by how frequently such candidates truly seem to believe they "deserve" the wage levels suggested by the survey.
Oct 4, 06 11:10 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
How much should I ask for?
I'm going to have a second interview with a very good firm with several hundreds of people. I don't want to blow the chance, but want to be well compensate. Some background about me, 8-9 years of working experiences in USA, 3 years in Beijing, China. I have B.Arch in China, and a M.S degree in USA. I'm licensed and LEED certified. I'm very good at sketch up, computer rendering, presentation, also I know how to put drawings together, coordinate consulatants, designing all the related details. I think I'm well round person, and very efficient and motivated. I'm not sure in Seattle Area how much should I ask with my level of experiences, since it is a bit complex. I would really appreciate your input on this. Thank you!
Have you tried the Salary Poll?
AIA salary survey from 2005 in the Seattle metro area shows a Project Manager's mean salary as $68,700, upper quartile is $74,300.
Senior Designer mean salary is$ 65,200 and $74,400 for upper quartile.
Oops, that is City of Seattle data that I gave above, but Seattle Metro Area is very close, within a few hundred, on each stat.
So I'm guessing that you're interviewing at either NBBJ, Callison, or possibly LMN?
are you and several hundred people having a second interview or are you having a second interview at a firm with hundreds of people?
Thanks for the info. I just went to AIA and to my suprise the number they have is quite low:
In Seattle Are:
Senior Arch: 55,000-74,000
Arch III:60,000-62,200
Vado, just for your information it is the second. Thanks for correcting me!-)
I have another question, is the big firm suppose to pay more similar amount or less compare to other smaller firms?
I would really appreciate your answer.
In general, larger firms report giving higher salaries.
Strawbeary, That's a good news! Thank you!
but those salary numbers take that into account. That's why I give the mean # and the higher one, so you can assess your skills, firm type, role etc.
I don't think you are an Arch III by the way. Arch III is 8-10 years exp. You have 3 in Beijing plus 8-9 in USA, so 11-12 years. Bump up to the next category which is either Senior designer/architect or Project Manager which is the numbers I gave you.
Sometimes this data doesn't make sense actually, I was looking at the numbers you posted for Arch III and verifying it with my stats. How can the lower quartile be 60,000, the upper be 62,200 and the median be 58,400. I thought mean meant average! Also, the lower quartile (55,000) for Senior Arch is lower than the Arch III (60,000)! By definition, the Senior Arch is more experienced, has more responsibilities beyond the Arch III!
by "that" I mean firm size.
and by "taking into account" I mean, that's why there is a range given for any position.
reason, also consider that there is no state income tax here either. that will yield you some xtra bucks a month.
Strawbeary, Thanks for the detailed explaination. Actually I realized I worked 7-8 years in USA, plus 3 years, still 10-11 years. Still not sure if I'm a senior, I don't have management skill yet. But that is a good point, to move up the number a bit.
OldFogey, thanks for the inside stories. Actually I have several coworkers who used to work at LMN. And a friend of mine used to work there, but got laid off with a few others in the same team. I heard Calison paid pretty well. But a coworker had bad experiences there. NBBJ pay intern very low compare to other firms, not sure other levels.
I'm just a kid with access to the report, not a salary guru. In general, larger firms report giving higher salaries is paraphrased from the report.
Strawbeary, Thanks for sharing with others!-)
you are welcome, good luck with the new job search.
Don't let the "no state income tax" thing fool you. Seattle's cost of living is expensive (maybe not as expensive as NYC, LA, SF, etc), but you'll be paying a lot in rent and the state sales tax is 8.8%
I've had friends move from smaller design firms to Callison in order to make cash in order to afford a down payment on a house, car, or save up for grad school.
I'm getting out soon - there's no way the wife and I can afford a house even remotely close to downtown.
Don't let the "no state income tax" thing fool you. Seattle's cost of living is expensive (maybe not as expensive as NYC, LA, SF, etc), but you'll be paying a lot in rent and the state sales tax is 8.8%
I've had friends move from smaller design firms to Callison in order to make cash in order to afford a down payment on a house, car, or save up for grad school.
I'm getting out soon - there's no way the wife and I can afford a house even remotely close to downtown.
dml955i, I agree the living expense is quite hign in Seattle, and I heard the architect salary in Seattle is very low compare to other cities, because there are too many of them here. My friend at Atlanta makes more than I do here and the housing there is almost half the price. But I have to stay here, my husband works here too. Good luck!
you are correct dml. i don't find the cost of living that bad though. i believe that it is in-line and/or less than other major metropolitan areas. living in the city comes with a price.
Sure. I'm up for it.
Sounds like a plan - although the Mars Bar is too close to NBBJ territory!
I've been enjoying that new bar, "King" over in Ballard - they've got pounders of Rainier for two bucks! Perfect for the under paid & under appreciated Seattle Archinect-er!!!
This needs its own thread...
judging from your experience and location (mine is similar), I hope you go in asking for at least 70 +. I just looked at the salary poll one the site and it is horrible what people settle for. Anybody making less than 50 should just quit. We have to ask, How much time and money did you spend in school. As of 2005 there were just a little over 110,000 licensed architects in the country. There are probably that many lawyers in Cal or NY alone. I remember reading that only 2000 arch students graduate a year. There really are not that many architects out there. There is a demand, every day the baby boomers are retiring, do not settle. It isn't the firms fault they pay so little. Unless firms are pressured to pay more, fees will never go up and neither will pay.
Arch500, good points. I know there is the high demand for architects now. I should get your answer earlier. I will ask more in my next interview I guess. But I just suspect some firms may not be able to afford that.
good points arch5000.
not to be an apologist for firms, but wages are determined primarily by market factors ... sure, there's a scarcity of experienced 8-12 year people right now and that's pushing up wages when people move from one position to another ... but, there's a flip-side to that perspective.
when the pendulum swings (and, it ALWAYS swings) many, if not most, firms downsize to some degree. those decisions always are tough, but - in my experience - firms look carefully at their staff and assess who's "career minded and loyal" vs. those who are "free agents, selling their services to the hightest bidder" -- there may not be a wide difference (if any) between what the firm is paying these people, but the first group tends to be kept around and the second group tends to be the group from which lay-off decisions are made - especially those who are paid significantly above comparably experienced personnel already in the firm.
it can be a tough world out there ... don't make it tougher on yourself by trying to squeeze out the very last dollar from your prospective employer ... they actually may not need you that badly.
at our firm, we've simply stopped responding to unrealistic salary demands from candidates ... we'll just tell selected clients we can't help them right now, rather than build up a staff of overpaid professionals who we're pretty sure we cannot sustatain indefinitely.
it's a myth that we -- as a profession -- have much bargaining power when it comes to fees. our clients simply don't care much that our costs go up. if one firm won't meet their fee level demands, they'll find another who will.
A gazillion dollars then negotiate from there...
quizzical, good points. That why I wonder if some firms can afford the high pay. It is go back to how much they get from the clients. But how acurate is the survey is another question, and how variable people make actually comparing to the survey, it is hard to tell. I know a graduate students with 4 years expereinces make $47,000 with a very good design firm. I made less then that even after I licensed few years ago. That makes me wonder what really counts.
the survey blends a range of responses and so it's useful to also look at the upper and lower quartiles provided. at best, the surveys can only provide general guidance to both the candidate and the employer.
as candidates point out to me all the time, "years-since-graduation" is only a partial indicator of what someone CAN do. and, that's true. employers must look beyond the resume to discover the candidate's true abilities ... what is the real nature of the candidate's experience ... what has the candidate actually accomplished in a work environment.
we see candidates who are mature beyond their years and who can produce results of an extraordinary nature. we are prepared to pay those candidates well above the norms suggested by the surveys.
we also see candiates who've been out of school for 6-years and who clearly have just been occupying a chair for most of that time without obvious growth or results. those candidates don't even receive offers -- at any wage level. yet, i'm constantly amazed by how frequently such candidates truly seem to believe they "deserve" the wage levels suggested by the survey.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.