I need a good list of compelling resons why Rhino is way better than the paid-for version of SketchUp. Otherwise my company wont get it for me. I have played with sketchup a little but I haven't gotten very familiar with it. Unfortunately, I need to sound well versed in both when presenting my arguments to the "software comittee" this week.
well, for one do you know how to use rhino? if so that is a major selling point. what kind of work does your office do? does rhino fit within that dynamic or will sketchup suffice? rhino works alot like autocad or so i've heard.
the sketchup sucks thing gets old though. i mean i hate bic ball points, never use them, don't like the cheapness of the line, but i have seen people work magic with that tool. so i tried using a ball point and found that i like ball points but only when the pen is nearly out of ink and i can use the pen to draw very delicately. point being, a tool in the right hands can work wonders, so it's not the tool only how you use the tool that matters.
I agree with you about that, but some tools are inherently better than others. I mean a bic ball point is fabulous to a certain extent, but if you are preparing a cd package, autocad is always always always going to win. the point is, if i am using both types of software with equal expertise, which will always always always win? and why.
I have a love/hate relationship with SketchUp. I loved it, then I hate it, now I love it again. Sometimes, I get offended when I hear people talk about how "SketchUp sucks!" or something to that effect, but then I realize that they just don't have the knowhow to use SketchUp to its full potential. Photorealism was my thing a couple of years ago, but it's over-rated. If a render becomes too realistic, and the built work doesn't reflect the render exactly, someone is going to be unhappy. SketchUp is by far the better presentation tool. And it's about $800 less per license. Instead of trying to convince your boss to buy you Rhino, why don't you spend some time getting to know SketchUp (it doesn't take long) and see exactly what kind of potential that software has.
i think, although i have used it very little, that rhino is more flexible to use than sketchup, not as intuitive, but better control when you can master it.
I have never used the program myself, but I have seen it in use, and seen what it can produce. I would suggest you download a free trial of SketchUp and you will have a good knowledge of it in a day. In a week you may be an expert.
rhino: more file outputs, more file imputs, vray plugin, sripting, cam output, nurbs control, meshes, higher level of precision for construction stages, loads of plugins available.
i have been playing with it for about a week and i think i have learned to use it pretty well. I am just wondering if i am missing something because everyone seems to love it and all i see are it's limitations. are there layers? can you use lines imported from autocad or do you need to trace over them? are there nurbs for fine manipulations? is it a good renderer? can you import files from most 3d applications? how does it work with curved geometries? can you do good lighting studies? if so, what kind of lights are available? etc. i see that it is good as a design tool to get your ideas flowing quickly. however, does it do much beyond that?
No layers, but you can import both 2D and 3D files from AutoCAD. It's an awful renderer. You can import from other 3D apps. It works well with curved geometries. Earlier versions, not so much. Lighting is far from realistic, but SketchUp does not attempt to be a photorealistic renderer. Its a very transparent program. What you see is what you get. Most don't like it because of its lack of bells and whistles, but I think that is exactly why this program is so great. And bigness, I prefer scissors to a lasercutter, and a sharpie to a tracball anyday.
Thank you fulcrum, SketchUp does have layers. I have not worked with them, however. I must say I am quite happy with the results I have gotten from SketchUp.
back to practice, it's easy to convince a client that sketchup work is worth their money. not sure what you need to achieve, though. if you need a fancy rendering, china can bust one out for you overnight for $500.
I suppose all the info i have is that i've been trained to use very sophisticated 3-d software such as catia, maya, rhino, and 3-d max. out of all of them, i feel that that rhino is the best of the bunch as an architectural design tool. its fairly simple, and extremely versatile. i have never used sketchup because i never needed to, and no one in the "designy" firms i've worked in ever recommended that i try.
i now have a new job where sketchup is the main 3d software, and i am trying to get rhino because i really like working in it. i feel that as a designer, i am handicapped without it. I need a few compelling arguments why sketchup is not sufficient to meet my needs. not knowing all the in and outs of sketchup, i dont want to go into a meeting and say sketch up doesn't have a,b,c and then someone will say to me "yes it does have a,b,c. now you dont need rhino."
as people are pointing out, it's more about the right tool for the job.
Rhino is great for the designy firms, as you put it, but for 99% of the real world it's overkill (not that it can't be used, of course).
Speed is always key, too. SketchUp is fast. Also pointed out, the simplicity is part of the attraction. 99% of the time, you only need a few tools. Most high end 3D packages are too cumbersome and slow for studies and design work, and this is where programs like SketchUp and FormZ shine.
What kind of work does your firm do? I am guessing nothing that needs Rhino, or they'd already have it (or some other high end 3D).
Remember, there were great designs beging done long before 3D came along (I'd even argue that there were better designs and Maya killed 10 years, but that's just me), done with sketches and card board.
jasoncross:
a lack of website does not necessarily mean what you say.
try finding a gehry partners website that publishes work.
trace:
i was hired because of my "designy" capabilities. I think rhino is just as fast as sketchup once you know what you are doing. perhaps faster because there is no need to mouse click icons. it works like autocad where you can type in commands. once you are familiar with its toolbox, you can fly.
rendering would be one point for Rhino in your argument.
SketchUp + Photoshop can give you some pretty nice results, but the sophisticated lighting will always be missing...
also, SketchUp doesn't have any interior lights/lamps. You can't get really into an interior space without taking the roof off to let the sun in....<----hope that last part makes sense...
however, this could just as well be an argument of FormZ over sketchup, and not Rhino...i dunno, i'm not familiar with Rhino...
Yes, but does FOG really need to publish his work? If the firm we are talking about is on that level, I can understand. But I don't think Gehry would have a problem dropping $850 on Rhino.
sketchup and rhino are totally different programs. I can understand comparing rhino with Max or even FormZ but sketchup isn't even marketing intself as being comparable to those programs.
i believe i need rhino. they are trying to convince me that i dont because they believe sketchup is sufficient. i am just looking for solid comparisons that prove that rhino is a superior design tool.
Rhino is a higher functioning program than SketchUp, but instead of wasting your time with this argument, why don't you evaluate your current and future design needs, make a list of your program requirements, and find one that fits the bill instead of starting a mass-modeling death match between SketchUp and Rhino? Even if you can convince the boss Rhino is better, you still haven't proven that it is a valuable tool in your everyday tasks. You may find that SketchUp is sufficient. You may even find Rhino isn't even sufficient, but instead of wasting time with this pointless argument where one answer will never be agreed upon, why not just evaluate the situation (of which you've shared very little of) and go from there??
jeez. i was just hoping that someone with some experience in both types of software could tell me some ways in which rhino clearly outperformed sketchup. i think i got a lot of good answers. i would welcome some more.
Chili, you say,"Rhino is a higher functioning program than SketchUp."
thats great. I just wanted some solid arguments to bolster that statement.
I didn't really expect anyone out there in archinectland to question my desire for rhino. I just requested some good observations from experienced modelers.
great advice from chili...
can't you model something for them, like a study of a past project or something? SHOW them that Rhino is the right program for you and their firm.
However if you really are against Sketchup i wouldn't do a demo in front of them...thats usually what sells people
I don't mind you asking a few questions. Not at all. I just think at this point you should have an idea in the differences in the software and you should decide what is right based on your needs. And then, it's time to talk to the boss. Good luck whatever you decide, though.
i would say the main argument for rhino is double: you can achieve more with it in terms of modelling, and is obviously a software which is gonna last longer in terms of use in the industry. building a pool of knowledge in a durable software means not having to retrain staff in a few years time. why don't you show them what you can do with rhino (u said u know it right?) ands then let them make their minds up.
to be honest, if you were trained in high end software it probably means you were producing somewhat interesting Architecture, are you sure that where you are now is the right place for you?
chili:
if you have nothing more to add to the discussion, that is fine. thank you for giving me your insights.
however, i would still welcome any more comparisons or insights that others might have.
i would say the main argument for rhino is double: you can achieve more with it in terms of modelling, and is obviously a software which is gonna last longer in terms of use in the industry. building a pool of knowledge in a durable software means not having to retrain staff in a few years time. why don't you show them what you can do with rhino (u said u know it right?) ands then let them make their minds up.
to be honest, if you were trained in high end software it probably means you were producing somewhat interesting Architecture, are you sure that where you are now is the right place for you?
Try about using sketchup and learnig its limitations. Then you will be able to describe for yourself why rhino clearly out performs sketchup in your application.
I actually use both programs so here is my 2 cents. I use sketch-up on more of a day-to day basis to get things done quick. It has zero rendering capabilities and doesn't do curves well at all, which is a problem because my entire building is made up of a series of curves. Sketch-up obviously has a hard time with complex surfaces, in fact it doesn't do them at all. I switch to rhino when i wand a more accurate representation of the curves, if i need to so a quick rendered scene, or if i am going to output it to the CNC mill.
if you have no other rendering tools in the office to import the sketch-up model into then rhino would be the better tool.
Backed by Autocad -- which (unfortunately) means a lot in our biz. As easy to change things as in sketchup. Plus it makes all your drawings as you model. Exports to 3D Max. Imports from Rhino.
BIM is gonna change the face of architecture. The good folks at Rhino know this -- that is why they have never really advertised to architects, even though some of the cooler buildings in the world have been designed on Rhino.
Fact is that shape making is shape making (Rhino does complex ones well, sketchup does simple ones really well) -- the real power comes in being able to make these shapes and edit them quickly
By the time you learn Revit, it will be doing complex surfaces parametrically. Plus it pumps out more regular architectures at breakneck speed. And it works well as a design tool.
Unlike in sketchup -- the model doesn't become a dead end -- you continually refine it until your project is built -- all the while producing drawings from it. With Revit, like sketchup, you can design in real-time, with someone standing over your shoulder.
I came into work 2 years ago, thinking that my Rhino skills would last me in good stead. From day one they had me on Revit. And even though I occasionally go back to Rhino to design a chair or an object -- 100% of my architecture is done in Revit.
Rhino is great, but there are greater possibilities out there.
Reasons why Rhino Kicks SketchUps Ass
I need a good list of compelling resons why Rhino is way better than the paid-for version of SketchUp. Otherwise my company wont get it for me. I have played with sketchup a little but I haven't gotten very familiar with it. Unfortunately, I need to sound well versed in both when presenting my arguments to the "software comittee" this week.
well, for one do you know how to use rhino? if so that is a major selling point. what kind of work does your office do? does rhino fit within that dynamic or will sketchup suffice? rhino works alot like autocad or so i've heard.
the sketchup sucks thing gets old though. i mean i hate bic ball points, never use them, don't like the cheapness of the line, but i have seen people work magic with that tool. so i tried using a ball point and found that i like ball points but only when the pen is nearly out of ink and i can use the pen to draw very delicately. point being, a tool in the right hands can work wonders, so it's not the tool only how you use the tool that matters.
I agree with you about that, but some tools are inherently better than others. I mean a bic ball point is fabulous to a certain extent, but if you are preparing a cd package, autocad is always always always going to win. the point is, if i am using both types of software with equal expertise, which will always always always win? and why.
I have a love/hate relationship with SketchUp. I loved it, then I hate it, now I love it again. Sometimes, I get offended when I hear people talk about how "SketchUp sucks!" or something to that effect, but then I realize that they just don't have the knowhow to use SketchUp to its full potential. Photorealism was my thing a couple of years ago, but it's over-rated. If a render becomes too realistic, and the built work doesn't reflect the render exactly, someone is going to be unhappy. SketchUp is by far the better presentation tool. And it's about $800 less per license. Instead of trying to convince your boss to buy you Rhino, why don't you spend some time getting to know SketchUp (it doesn't take long) and see exactly what kind of potential that software has.
Chili, do you ever work with Rhino?
i think, although i have used it very little, that rhino is more flexible to use than sketchup, not as intuitive, but better control when you can master it.
I have never used the program myself, but I have seen it in use, and seen what it can produce. I would suggest you download a free trial of SketchUp and you will have a good knowledge of it in a day. In a week you may be an expert.
rhino: more file outputs, more file imputs, vray plugin, sripting, cam output, nurbs control, meshes, higher level of precision for construction stages, loads of plugins available.
chili, sketchup is to rhino what a pair of scissors is a lasercutter. sketchup is great, but oh so limited.
i have been playing with it for about a week and i think i have learned to use it pretty well. I am just wondering if i am missing something because everyone seems to love it and all i see are it's limitations. are there layers? can you use lines imported from autocad or do you need to trace over them? are there nurbs for fine manipulations? is it a good renderer? can you import files from most 3d applications? how does it work with curved geometries? can you do good lighting studies? if so, what kind of lights are available? etc. i see that it is good as a design tool to get your ideas flowing quickly. however, does it do much beyond that?
No layers, but you can import both 2D and 3D files from AutoCAD. It's an awful renderer. You can import from other 3D apps. It works well with curved geometries. Earlier versions, not so much. Lighting is far from realistic, but SketchUp does not attempt to be a photorealistic renderer. Its a very transparent program. What you see is what you get. Most don't like it because of its lack of bells and whistles, but I think that is exactly why this program is so great. And bigness, I prefer scissors to a lasercutter, and a sharpie to a tracball anyday.
SketchUp has layers.
how do you find the layers?
do this in sketchup...and its not about the quality, its about the complexity the software can handle. cad is cad, it's not gardening.
Thank you fulcrum, SketchUp does have layers. I have not worked with them, however. I must say I am quite happy with the results I have gotten from SketchUp.
bigness, did you do all of that in rhino, or is some of it done in maya?
Done in SketchUp.
soup, that's xerofitarch and its a mix of both.
chili. man. what can i say. when i'll start designing amusement park rides or children book covers in 3d...
dont get me wrong, i use sketchup too, but it's a toy compared to rhino.
i saw hernan all over that.
lol
2 totally different tools. we need more info to really help you form any argument for needing rhino.
back to practice, it's easy to convince a client that sketchup work is worth their money. not sure what you need to achieve, though. if you need a fancy rendering, china can bust one out for you overnight for $500.
I suppose all the info i have is that i've been trained to use very sophisticated 3-d software such as catia, maya, rhino, and 3-d max. out of all of them, i feel that that rhino is the best of the bunch as an architectural design tool. its fairly simple, and extremely versatile. i have never used sketchup because i never needed to, and no one in the "designy" firms i've worked in ever recommended that i try.
i now have a new job where sketchup is the main 3d software, and i am trying to get rhino because i really like working in it. i feel that as a designer, i am handicapped without it. I need a few compelling arguments why sketchup is not sufficient to meet my needs. not knowing all the in and outs of sketchup, i dont want to go into a meeting and say sketch up doesn't have a,b,c and then someone will say to me "yes it does have a,b,c. now you dont need rhino."
soup, I can feel your handicap.
Does your firm have a website? Maybe we could help you decide/argue if we saw the type of renderings required.
Though I would push for Rhino. Rhino rocks for (most) architecture.
no website. we dont really publish our work or any renderings.
the renderings i would make would really just be to illustrate my design ideas.
no website? goodluck getting any more than the most basic software.
A lack of a website shows a lack of vision...do they even use business cards?
as people are pointing out, it's more about the right tool for the job.
Rhino is great for the designy firms, as you put it, but for 99% of the real world it's overkill (not that it can't be used, of course).
Speed is always key, too. SketchUp is fast. Also pointed out, the simplicity is part of the attraction. 99% of the time, you only need a few tools. Most high end 3D packages are too cumbersome and slow for studies and design work, and this is where programs like SketchUp and FormZ shine.
What kind of work does your firm do? I am guessing nothing that needs Rhino, or they'd already have it (or some other high end 3D).
Remember, there were great designs beging done long before 3D came along (I'd even argue that there were better designs and Maya killed 10 years, but that's just me), done with sketches and card board.
supposedly a vray plugin for sketchup is in the works - but there is no delivery date yet.
jasoncross:
a lack of website does not necessarily mean what you say.
try finding a gehry partners website that publishes work.
trace:
i was hired because of my "designy" capabilities. I think rhino is just as fast as sketchup once you know what you are doing. perhaps faster because there is no need to mouse click icons. it works like autocad where you can type in commands. once you are familiar with its toolbox, you can fly.
I was about to side with jasoncross (not that there are sides), but then soup delivered that Gehry zinger. Pow!
well then...
rendering would be one point for Rhino in your argument.
SketchUp + Photoshop can give you some pretty nice results, but the sophisticated lighting will always be missing...
also, SketchUp doesn't have any interior lights/lamps. You can't get really into an interior space without taking the roof off to let the sun in....<----hope that last part makes sense...
however, this could just as well be an argument of FormZ over sketchup, and not Rhino...i dunno, i'm not familiar with Rhino...
Yes, but does FOG really need to publish his work? If the firm we are talking about is on that level, I can understand. But I don't think Gehry would have a problem dropping $850 on Rhino.
you would be suprised, chili.
ya, i'm not sure that H&deM have a site either...so much for the "lack of vision" argument...
I don't have a business card though. Am I a failure?
sketchup and rhino are totally different programs. I can understand comparing rhino with Max or even FormZ but sketchup isn't even marketing intself as being comparable to those programs.
Which program do you really need to do your job?
i believe i need rhino. they are trying to convince me that i dont because they believe sketchup is sufficient. i am just looking for solid comparisons that prove that rhino is a superior design tool.
Rhino is a higher functioning program than SketchUp, but instead of wasting your time with this argument, why don't you evaluate your current and future design needs, make a list of your program requirements, and find one that fits the bill instead of starting a mass-modeling death match between SketchUp and Rhino? Even if you can convince the boss Rhino is better, you still haven't proven that it is a valuable tool in your everyday tasks. You may find that SketchUp is sufficient. You may even find Rhino isn't even sufficient, but instead of wasting time with this pointless argument where one answer will never be agreed upon, why not just evaluate the situation (of which you've shared very little of) and go from there??
jeez. i was just hoping that someone with some experience in both types of software could tell me some ways in which rhino clearly outperformed sketchup. i think i got a lot of good answers. i would welcome some more.
Chili, you say,"Rhino is a higher functioning program than SketchUp."
thats great. I just wanted some solid arguments to bolster that statement.
I didn't really expect anyone out there in archinectland to question my desire for rhino. I just requested some good observations from experienced modelers.
great advice from chili...
can't you model something for them, like a study of a past project or something? SHOW them that Rhino is the right program for you and their firm.
However if you really are against Sketchup i wouldn't do a demo in front of them...thats usually what sells people
I don't mind you asking a few questions. Not at all. I just think at this point you should have an idea in the differences in the software and you should decide what is right based on your needs. And then, it's time to talk to the boss. Good luck whatever you decide, though.
i would say the main argument for rhino is double: you can achieve more with it in terms of modelling, and is obviously a software which is gonna last longer in terms of use in the industry. building a pool of knowledge in a durable software means not having to retrain staff in a few years time. why don't you show them what you can do with rhino (u said u know it right?) ands then let them make their minds up.
to be honest, if you were trained in high end software it probably means you were producing somewhat interesting Architecture, are you sure that where you are now is the right place for you?
chili:
if you have nothing more to add to the discussion, that is fine. thank you for giving me your insights.
however, i would still welcome any more comparisons or insights that others might have.
i would say the main argument for rhino is double: you can achieve more with it in terms of modelling, and is obviously a software which is gonna last longer in terms of use in the industry. building a pool of knowledge in a durable software means not having to retrain staff in a few years time. why don't you show them what you can do with rhino (u said u know it right?) ands then let them make their minds up.
to be honest, if you were trained in high end software it probably means you were producing somewhat interesting Architecture, are you sure that where you are now is the right place for you?
Try about using sketchup and learnig its limitations. Then you will be able to describe for yourself why rhino clearly out performs sketchup in your application.
Or just send your boss a link to this thread.
I actually use both programs so here is my 2 cents. I use sketch-up on more of a day-to day basis to get things done quick. It has zero rendering capabilities and doesn't do curves well at all, which is a problem because my entire building is made up of a series of curves. Sketch-up obviously has a hard time with complex surfaces, in fact it doesn't do them at all. I switch to rhino when i wand a more accurate representation of the curves, if i need to so a quick rendered scene, or if i am going to output it to the CNC mill.
if you have no other rendering tools in the office to import the sketch-up model into then rhino would be the better tool.
that is a really good question bigness, i am starting to have serious doubts.
genuwine, i appreciate the input. thanks.
hey soup, didn't mean to trow you off ballance, it's just that working under one's capabilities is frustrating.
I hate to say this, but go Revit.
Backed by Autocad -- which (unfortunately) means a lot in our biz. As easy to change things as in sketchup. Plus it makes all your drawings as you model. Exports to 3D Max. Imports from Rhino.
BIM is gonna change the face of architecture. The good folks at Rhino know this -- that is why they have never really advertised to architects, even though some of the cooler buildings in the world have been designed on Rhino.
Fact is that shape making is shape making (Rhino does complex ones well, sketchup does simple ones really well) -- the real power comes in being able to make these shapes and edit them quickly
By the time you learn Revit, it will be doing complex surfaces parametrically. Plus it pumps out more regular architectures at breakneck speed. And it works well as a design tool.
Unlike in sketchup -- the model doesn't become a dead end -- you continually refine it until your project is built -- all the while producing drawings from it. With Revit, like sketchup, you can design in real-time, with someone standing over your shoulder.
I came into work 2 years ago, thinking that my Rhino skills would last me in good stead. From day one they had me on Revit. And even though I occasionally go back to Rhino to design a chair or an object -- 100% of my architecture is done in Revit.
Rhino is great, but there are greater possibilities out there.
i know, i am beginning to see that.
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