6 years, is anyone tired of mourning this day? does not life move on? are you tired of hearing about fire fighters and even more hearing from their families? what happened to getting busy living? reading 3000 names, every single year gets......

as I was catching the late new last night, and everyone was talking about the memorial services happening here in CA, I was thinking it's only a matter of time b/4 this gets some kind of national holiday/day of mourning status on a calendar. maybe b/c it's only been five years, still fresh for people.

thank you for that paul.

i am effected by any death and we do still need to remember -

us troops lost in iraq to date: 3,774 [27,186 wounded]
uk troops lost in iraq to date: 169
iraqi civilian deaths to date: 78,081

http://icasualties.org/oif/
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

so, what do you do to honor 12.07?

any loos of life is tragic - just continue to protest against the 'cold war big stick policy' of fearing evil-doers and try to figure out isnt there a way to stop so many people being so pissed off with others- the world will blow up if the we all cant figure out a way to live in it peacefully together.

beta, you bumped this thread, evidently to provoke some argument that has likely been hashed out already, presumably by you (given your line of questions). not your classiest move to date. recognize it or not, but leave everyone else to their business. i type this as i hear these names being read through the open window in my wtc-adjacent office. personally, i don't do much in observance of the day, but who am i to not let others mourn the past and discuss how this event has and should (or should not) impact the future.

also, most of us weren't born on dec, 7, 1944. frankly, my parents weren't even alive yet. sure, we learned about it in school, we recognize it as part of our nation's history, but the event that is being remembered today happened recently. so what is your point exactly? nevermind...



my condolences to anyone that lost loved ones on this day, 2001.

AP, whether or not i am classless is not the issue, i am from New Jersey, i was in NYC the thursday prior to this day, i even have a polaroid of the trade center as part of my site visit because of the "shadow" the buildings cast on my site. everyday i drove to studio in newark on route 280 east the interstate lined up perfectly with the billowing smoke clouds that seemed etch a space in my vision for the entire semester. that do and the events that followed even figured in my final project. yet when all of this was going on i was at work unable to "witness" was going on, so i was seemingly disconnected from the reality of the moment. but for you to sit there in your space telling me about hearing names read only points to issue being discussed - apparently you don't read the NYT - by many that live in NYC and even some family members.

let me ask this then; when was the Murrow building taken down? who did it? how many died? what is done to mourn that day?

this day will become a holiday, but not one that will become a day of remembering, it will be one to go - pardon my cynicism - shopping for deals on the latest iPods.

Article Tools Sponsored By
By N. R. KLEINFIELD
Published: September 2, 2007

Again it comes, for the sixth time now -- 2,191 days after that awful morning -- falling for the first time on a Tuesday, the same day of the week.

Again there will be the public tributes, the tightly scripted memorial events, the reflex news coverage, the souvenir peddlers.

Is all of it necessary, at the same decibel level -- still?

Each year, murmuring about Sept. 11 fatigue arises, a weariness of reliving a day that everyone wishes had never happened. It began before the first anniversary of the terrorist attack. By now, though, many people feel that the collective commemorations, publicly staged, are excessive and vacant, even annoying.

''I may sound callous, but doesn't grieving have a shelf life?'' said Charlene Correia, 57, a nursing supervisor from Acushnet, Mass. ''We're very sorry and mournful that people died, but there are living people. Let's wind it down.''


NYT

WE NEED A FUCKING MEMORIAL THATS WHAT WE NEED! WE NEED SHIT PUT IN THAT PIT DOWNTOWN!!!!

Independent studies from the John Hopkins University put the Iraqi death toll at 655,000 as a result of the war.

It saddens me to think that people are actually asking "how much remembering is too much". Have we gotten to be so self-conscious as a society that we have to question every gesture, every monument, every ceremony.....sure, we can turn on the TV and check the paper and we are free to think to ourselves..."gosh, are they really reading all those names again".....but we are also free to turn the TV off, or to not read the paper.

Most of all, I think we are free to let everyone deal with this day in whatever way they feel fit.

Well stated, DubK.

Liebchen - arent you splitting hairs on the iraqis? check the date of you study --- your not one of those who question the science behind global warming are you?


deaths of iraqis each week 2003-2007


deaths of iraqis each day

no one really knows for certain -

"Iraq Body Count (IBC) records the violent civilian deaths that have resulted from the 2003 military intervention in Iraq. Its public database includes deaths caused by US-led coalition forces and paramilitary or criminal attacks by others.

IBC’s documentary evidence is drawn from crosschecked media reports of violent events leading to the death of civilians, or of bodies being found, and is supplemented by the careful review and integration of hospital, morgue, NGO and official figures.

Systematically extracted details about deadly incidents and the individuals killed in them are stored with every entry in the database. The minimum details always extracted are the number killed, where, and when.

Confusion about the numbers produced by the project can be avoided by bearing in mind that:

IBC’s figures are not ‘estimates’ but a record of actual, documented deaths.
IBC records solely violent deaths.
IBC records solely civilian (strictly, ‘non-combatant’) deaths.
IBC’s figures are constantly updated and revised as new data comes in, and frequent consultation is advised. "

I don't think I'm splitting hairs over the deaths of iraqis. More than 2,000 people were killed on 9/11. If we are fighting a war over there to prevent us having to fight a war here (as the administration claims), and 600,000 Iraqis have died in the US invasion, then do we really think that each Iraqi life is worth about 1/300th of an American life?

I don't doubt the science of global warming, but I do doubt the IBC numbers because they are probably not science. IBC deaths are from "crosschecked media reports of violent events leading to the death of civilians"? Come on, the media has a hard time reporting in Iraq outside the Green Zone.

Furthermore, the last three sentences are telling: war produces more than violent deaths, and war produces more than civilian deaths.

This survey was conducted by statisticians who had previously (if I recall correctly) conducted similar and accepted studies in the former Yugoslavia. Those reports were unchallenged. I would support these statistically acceptable methods rather than accepting what little media outlets are able to report.

i take your numbers for truth - i know when the report came out there was wide controversy on the issue as its not aligned with death certificates etc.

and your right -- the media has very limited and very controled access to whats going on.

but add another 70,000+ to the numbers as the reporting time was june 2006 - and 2006 was hell in iraq.

dubK, the point of the question is not about letting everyone remember in their own way, it's this idea that if we don't collectively commiserate we are somehow not human. i will always mark this day, i will forever remember what it was like to drive home after work, how my wife and i embraced, how i saw the events unfold, albeit 9 hours later. but this idea about public commemoration is rather nationalistic don't you think, group think to the extreme, like the highway memorials to express sadness if only for the public, as if to draw attention to our grief as public spectacle.

i grow weary of the public events, if only because of sense of entitlement it brings to certain family members that have almost become a PAC. they seem to be saying if you don't vote or agree with our position then you are spitting on the memory of our loved ones.

why are firefighter families advocating to have their members recognized differently in the memorial plans? why are their lives more important than those that made a similar sacrifice, but were not affiliated with first responders that died?

and yes, like it or not, 50 years from now this day will be like 12.07, a footnote.

September 12 is national day of procreation in Russia; you can even get half the day off of work!

I do also grow weary of the constant public commisery, but somehow, when I read a thread like this, or listen on the radio or television to the reporting as it was happening that day, it still strikes me very much. I do hope that as the years go on, it will be remembered as those who still feel grief see fit, and not by politicians who feel the need to stand on ceremony.

I had forgotten that today was September 11th until I was walking through Arlington at 8:45 am and instantly turned 180-degrees to find relief that the rumbling behind me was merely a bulldozer emptying excavated rock into a dump truck from an adjacent construction site.

The first reminder from another person didn't come until almost 5:00 pm today when the structural engineer on my project referenced "those towers" as if they are now part of the common vernacular.

I was there when the towers fell (on east houston street for the first, on the williamsburg bridge for the second), but I'm over all this memorializing, heroe-izing, and warmongering. Dwelling on the past doesn't help us deal with the current issues. more people die from drunk driving or malaria each year, yet we don't go to war.

and why don't all the workers who went down into the pit - who now have major health problems fromm Guiliani's lack of concern for worker safety - get compensation for their sacrifice? those folks are dying today.

i guess things aren't flown at half mast on national proceration day...

national day of procreation?

now if only there was a nation worth procreating with.

barry... does the war on drugs count?

if we tackled pressing and important issues that affected the majority of americans, how would our capitalist pig masters maintain their riches/supremacy?

bump.

It is 9/11? Why hasn't the news been making a big deal about this?