I was accepted to the following a few weeks ago. I don't have an undergraduate degree in architecture, but I've taken a lot of physics, math, and 4 arch studios.
PennDesign - M.Arch I (with $8,000/yr scholarship)
VT - M.Arch.3
NC State - M.Arch Track 3 (would be in-state tuition)
So I have 2 inquiries for everyone in this forum
1) I am wondering if anyone has some basic insights into these schools. I especially interested in the urban design side of architecture. I visited Penn and liked the people and campus. Everyone was very interesting, excited about the profession, and a lot more down-to-earth than I was expecting. But I was unimpressed by the facilities (lots of dark hallways and studio rooms) and the emphasis on crazy digital representation (lots of sci-fi / fantasy / organic forms stuff). VT is a good school and I know several students in the program who like it, but I'm a bit put off by the Blacksburg location. NC State is close to home, and would be much lower tuition, but I'm wondering if it is respected enough to really jumpstart my architecture/urban design career.
2) Also, finances are somewhat of an issue for me, so I am wondering if it is really worth $35,000/yr to go to Penn, when I would pay less at NC State for my whole degree (at about $9,000/yr). VT for me would be about $22,000/yr, and after the first year I could get in-state tuition ($12,000/yr). So for my whole degree, I would pay roughly:
Penn: ~$105,000
VT: ~$46,000
NC State: ~$27,000
Going to an Ivy League school sounds so tempting (and was one of the reasons I applied), but will I really make connections through Penn that are worth the financial burden I will face? Same goes for VT vs. NCSU, where I would pay somewhat less at NCSU.
All of those schools are pretty solid and have their advantages and disadvantages. Obviously being in as little debt as possible while having a very good degree from a reputable program is something everyone wants.
I faced a very similar decision way back when when i was looking to get into grad school. I eventually chose VT - absolutely loved the program - it was an intense program which leaned heavily on the design and design theory side of things (very heavily and obviously form the Bauhaus school of thought) - I met some of my best friends, and their connections to the professional world are pretty amazing. and best of all it was a very manageable debt situation down the stretch.
Feel free to ask me any questions about the program. I'd vouch for it any day.
Can't speak to the other schools, but my experience at Penn was wonderful! The studios do look frightening, but that is the case at most universities (architecture always gets the short end of the stick!). I think the faculty and other students make up for the building, I never hated working in the studio. Not sure if you are male or female, but if you're female consider applying for an AAUW "Selected Professions" fellowship! You should also look into their certificate program or a dual-degree in Landscape Architecture if you are interested in urban design. The students I knew that were in the dual program got awesome jobs afterwards! Best of luck!
@med - I understand what you mean by "Bauhaus school of thought," but what exactly does "design and design theory side of things" mean? How are the student relationships with professors at VT?
@fluxbound - ???
@Dani Zoe - I completely understand that it is the people and energy of the school that make it what it is, but it was really hard to picture myself being in those studios and classrooms for 3(+) years - and I was visiting an a pretty nice day in April. The Penn campus and setting were amazing, though. I am wondering what specifically you think sets Penn apart from schools like VT and NCSU that would justify the added expense. At the Open House, they kept saying how great the "connections" and "reputation" are at Penn, but is that really the case? Do you think the instruction of professors (and subsequently their relationships with students) are worth the extra tuition?
What I meant in saying that the Virginia Tech prrogram is heavy into design and design theory is that they not only train you into becoming a good architect, they also heavily attempt to groom you as a designer - one that questions why something 'is' and what makes something an object rather than a space. When I say Bauhaus, I mean (in your face) BAHAUS. There is much emphasis on the existential philosophy and the philosophy of beauty. Many of the professors have been there for decades and are very impressive professionals who have worked in major firms and/or reputable "starchitects" - however their careers have only focused on acadamia and they are completely dedicated to the pedigogy of architecture. Also you will find that many of them are European and have come from some of the very reputable European architectural schools and//or firms. You will find there is a lot of discussion about the works of SOM, Herman Herzberger, Herzhog deMeuron, Peter Zumthor, Renzo Piano, Morphosis, Zaha, OMA, etc, etc....
The College does a job fair every year and there are usally about 100 firms (many of which are mentioned above) there to scout out talent. I graduated in a good economy. Every single one of us got multiple job offers.
I think that the quality of education you get at Virginia Tech is remarkable. I started there in the early 2000s not knowing what to expect, but the first year left me hungry for more and more knowledge - not just about design and architecture but of philosophy, history, and just about any other subject. The professors are very encouraging in your architectural endeavor and you can tell that they recognise talent and passion for architecture. Also they are extremely professional in how they treat you as a graduate student.
I came over to the main campus directly from New York City and you would think that would pose a problem in your day-to-day familiarity concerning your suroundings but this was not the case for me - i found it to be (literally and figuratively) a nice breath of fresh air. It is also a very fun town and inexpensive place to be.
@med, I cannot thank you enough for the in-depth description of the program at VT. It will be a tough decision for me, but I am now leaning towards Virginia Tech. One of my friends from undergrad is now in the second year of the M.Arch.3 program now and loves it. It looks like better "bang for the buck" than Penn at this point. I still haven't visited NC State yet (will next week), so any comments on the program would be much appreciated.
On the VT website (which is somewhat outdated), they say that it's possible for M.Arch students to study at least a couple of semesters at the Washington-Alexandria Architecture Center. I would be very interested in doing some of my studies in the DC area. I visited the waac.vt.edu website, but it didn't tell me much about the architecture program (for instance, how do the courses utilize the urban location). Do you know anything about it?
I understand what you are going through and I agree that it is a tough decision - it was for me as well and everyone else for that matter. You should also be very proud of yourself for getting in such outstanding programs - it is a very gratifying feeling.
I don't want you to get me wrong - both of the other schools you are considering are outstanding programs and offer very similar kinds of experiences. I only speak based on my experience at Virginia Tech.
Yes, you can definitely attend the WAAC. A lot of my friends did that and they loved it. You can also do the study abroad program after your first year in Switzerland which is also a pretty amazing experience. There are a lot programs and fellowships you can take an advantage of as well.
My advice: choose the city and climate that you like the best. You won't spend all your time in the studio. I grew up about an hour from Raleigh and chose UVA over NCSU because I didn't want to live in Raleigh. It's for good reason that locals call it Sprawleigh.
Even more important advice: don't go into debt when there is virtually no guarantee of finding a job to pay back those loans. The quality of your work is more important than the logo on your degree and in some people's eyes, that Ivy degree can actually have negative connotations.
You will have more time to do good work, and have much less stress, if you don't have $100K in debt when you graduate. With that much debt, you will have to take any job that is offered, whether you like it or not. Do you want to build your own house within the next decade or draw airport bathroom plans for a decade just to pay off your debt? It's indentured servitude, not rational in this economy.
Even the $19K difference between VT and NCSU deserves careful consideration. NCSU may not have the reputation of VT but it's a good school and I know several architects who went there, along with a few former and current professors who are really great designers, not to mention nice people.
the other thing to ask about regarding VT is if you can somehow get to the accademia in mendrisio. that would be reason alone to attend VT (or just skip right on over to the accademia)
Thanks for the comments. I visited NC State and VT this weekend and was impressed by both. I have to decide by tomorrow. It's really a toss-up, but at this point I'm slightly leaning towards Virginia Tech. Any last thoughts?
Chose NC State after all. More emphasis on urban design in the M.Arch program, and you can't beat in-state tuition + scholarship. Thanks for the comments, everyone.
Congrats on your decision! :D I think you've made a very good decision and you are right, less debt = more freedom down the stretch. I was rooting for VT ;) - but NC State is a very good school and a very good program! ;)
Cheers!
Apr 24, 12 9:52 am ·
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M.Arch at VT and NCSU compared to PennDesign
I was accepted to the following a few weeks ago. I don't have an undergraduate degree in architecture, but I've taken a lot of physics, math, and 4 arch studios.
So I have 2 inquiries for everyone in this forum
1) I am wondering if anyone has some basic insights into these schools. I especially interested in the urban design side of architecture. I visited Penn and liked the people and campus. Everyone was very interesting, excited about the profession, and a lot more down-to-earth than I was expecting. But I was unimpressed by the facilities (lots of dark hallways and studio rooms) and the emphasis on crazy digital representation (lots of sci-fi / fantasy / organic forms stuff). VT is a good school and I know several students in the program who like it, but I'm a bit put off by the Blacksburg location. NC State is close to home, and would be much lower tuition, but I'm wondering if it is respected enough to really jumpstart my architecture/urban design career.
2) Also, finances are somewhat of an issue for me, so I am wondering if it is really worth $35,000/yr to go to Penn, when I would pay less at NC State for my whole degree (at about $9,000/yr). VT for me would be about $22,000/yr, and after the first year I could get in-state tuition ($12,000/yr). So for my whole degree, I would pay roughly:
Going to an Ivy League school sounds so tempting (and was one of the reasons I applied), but will I really make connections through Penn that are worth the financial burden I will face? Same goes for VT vs. NCSU, where I would pay somewhat less at NCSU.
All of those schools are pretty solid and have their advantages and disadvantages. Obviously being in as little debt as possible while having a very good degree from a reputable program is something everyone wants.
I faced a very similar decision way back when when i was looking to get into grad school. I eventually chose VT - absolutely loved the program - it was an intense program which leaned heavily on the design and design theory side of things (very heavily and obviously form the Bauhaus school of thought) - I met some of my best friends, and their connections to the professional world are pretty amazing. and best of all it was a very manageable debt situation down the stretch.
Feel free to ask me any questions about the program. I'd vouch for it any day.
if you have to ask, you might as well be rolling dice.
Can't speak to the other schools, but my experience at Penn was wonderful! The studios do look frightening, but that is the case at most universities (architecture always gets the short end of the stick!). I think the faculty and other students make up for the building, I never hated working in the studio. Not sure if you are male or female, but if you're female consider applying for an AAUW "Selected Professions" fellowship! You should also look into their certificate program or a dual-degree in Landscape Architecture if you are interested in urban design. The students I knew that were in the dual program got awesome jobs afterwards! Best of luck!
Thank you guys for the amazingly quick replies.
@med - I understand what you mean by "Bauhaus school of thought," but what exactly does "design and design theory side of things" mean? How are the student relationships with professors at VT?
@fluxbound - ???
@Dani Zoe - I completely understand that it is the people and energy of the school that make it what it is, but it was really hard to picture myself being in those studios and classrooms for 3(+) years - and I was visiting an a pretty nice day in April. The Penn campus and setting were amazing, though. I am wondering what specifically you think sets Penn apart from schools like VT and NCSU that would justify the added expense. At the Open House, they kept saying how great the "connections" and "reputation" are at Penn, but is that really the case? Do you think the instruction of professors (and subsequently their relationships with students) are worth the extra tuition?
Thanks again for the comments and advice.
What I meant in saying that the Virginia Tech prrogram is heavy into design and design theory is that they not only train you into becoming a good architect, they also heavily attempt to groom you as a designer - one that questions why something 'is' and what makes something an object rather than a space. When I say Bauhaus, I mean (in your face) BAHAUS. There is much emphasis on the existential philosophy and the philosophy of beauty. Many of the professors have been there for decades and are very impressive professionals who have worked in major firms and/or reputable "starchitects" - however their careers have only focused on acadamia and they are completely dedicated to the pedigogy of architecture. Also you will find that many of them are European and have come from some of the very reputable European architectural schools and//or firms. You will find there is a lot of discussion about the works of SOM, Herman Herzberger, Herzhog deMeuron, Peter Zumthor, Renzo Piano, Morphosis, Zaha, OMA, etc, etc....
The College does a job fair every year and there are usally about 100 firms (many of which are mentioned above) there to scout out talent. I graduated in a good economy. Every single one of us got multiple job offers.
I think that the quality of education you get at Virginia Tech is remarkable. I started there in the early 2000s not knowing what to expect, but the first year left me hungry for more and more knowledge - not just about design and architecture but of philosophy, history, and just about any other subject. The professors are very encouraging in your architectural endeavor and you can tell that they recognise talent and passion for architecture. Also they are extremely professional in how they treat you as a graduate student.
I came over to the main campus directly from New York City and you would think that would pose a problem in your day-to-day familiarity concerning your suroundings but this was not the case for me - i found it to be (literally and figuratively) a nice breath of fresh air. It is also a very fun town and inexpensive place to be.
Hope this helps!
@med, I cannot thank you enough for the in-depth description of the program at VT. It will be a tough decision for me, but I am now leaning towards Virginia Tech. One of my friends from undergrad is now in the second year of the M.Arch.3 program now and loves it. It looks like better "bang for the buck" than Penn at this point. I still haven't visited NC State yet (will next week), so any comments on the program would be much appreciated.
On the VT website (which is somewhat outdated), they say that it's possible for M.Arch students to study at least a couple of semesters at the Washington-Alexandria Architecture Center. I would be very interested in doing some of my studies in the DC area. I visited the waac.vt.edu website, but it didn't tell me much about the architecture program (for instance, how do the courses utilize the urban location). Do you know anything about it?
I understand what you are going through and I agree that it is a tough decision - it was for me as well and everyone else for that matter. You should also be very proud of yourself for getting in such outstanding programs - it is a very gratifying feeling.
I don't want you to get me wrong - both of the other schools you are considering are outstanding programs and offer very similar kinds of experiences. I only speak based on my experience at Virginia Tech.
Yes, you can definitely attend the WAAC. A lot of my friends did that and they loved it. You can also do the study abroad program after your first year in Switzerland which is also a pretty amazing experience. There are a lot programs and fellowships you can take an advantage of as well.
My advice: choose the city and climate that you like the best. You won't spend all your time in the studio. I grew up about an hour from Raleigh and chose UVA over NCSU because I didn't want to live in Raleigh. It's for good reason that locals call it Sprawleigh.
Even more important advice: don't go into debt when there is virtually no guarantee of finding a job to pay back those loans. The quality of your work is more important than the logo on your degree and in some people's eyes, that Ivy degree can actually have negative connotations.
You will have more time to do good work, and have much less stress, if you don't have $100K in debt when you graduate. With that much debt, you will have to take any job that is offered, whether you like it or not. Do you want to build your own house within the next decade or draw airport bathroom plans for a decade just to pay off your debt? It's indentured servitude, not rational in this economy.
Even the $19K difference between VT and NCSU deserves careful consideration. NCSU may not have the reputation of VT but it's a good school and I know several architects who went there, along with a few former and current professors who are really great designers, not to mention nice people.
the other thing to ask about regarding VT is if you can somehow get to the accademia in mendrisio. that would be reason alone to attend VT (or just skip right on over to the accademia)
Thanks for the comments. I visited NC State and VT this weekend and was impressed by both. I have to decide by tomorrow. It's really a toss-up, but at this point I'm slightly leaning towards Virginia Tech. Any last thoughts?
Chose NC State after all. More emphasis on urban design in the M.Arch program, and you can't beat in-state tuition + scholarship. Thanks for the comments, everyone.
Congrats on your decision! :D I think you've made a very good decision and you are right, less debt = more freedom down the stretch. I was rooting for VT ;) - but NC State is a very good school and a very good program! ;)
Cheers!
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