We have viz2005 here at the office. I've used max and maya quite a bit in school. I find doing architecture in max is faster and it supports autocad drawings quite well, which can be usefull if you're doing renderings based on cad drawings. I think maya has a bit more fine control over most parameters in the program, but I think all of that fine tuning slows down the production process. I will also say that Maya is much better at NURBS, so if you're into blobs, it's probably the way to go. Very few offices use Maya, esp compared to Max/viz.
Round One: Max launches into Maya with a left hand jab. Maya tries to use a heavy jab but Max retaliates with a great left hook. Maya lets it's guard down to let Max in with another left hook. Max seems to have done enough to win the first round.
Round Two: Maya is warned twice by the referee for holding. Maya lands three powerful right upper cuts on Max. Maya's plan to lure in Max close, appears to be working in a round that he almost certainly won.
Round Three: Max attempts to come in close to Maya but cannot land a punch as Maya fends it off with a number of jabs. Maya replies to Max's attempted hook by catching it on the eye. Max receives treatment to a cut above the right eye.
Round Four: Maya takes another blow to the chin from Max. Maya jabs it's way through Max's guard as it's face begins to swell. Max is pushed down on to the canvas by Maya and it has a point deducted by the referee.
Round Five: Maya looks for the swelling above Max's right eye and tries to reach it with his jab. Maya looks to have won yet another round after landing a number of point-scoring shots.
Round Six: A good right-left combination from Maya lands Max in all sorts of trouble. Maya tees up Max by pushing it's jab through the it's guard. Max looks jaded and it only seems a matter of time before it feels the full brunt of Maya's power.
Round Seven: Max charges out in the seventh. Maya teases Max into coming in close. Max and Maya exchange jabs. A right hook puts Max off balance as Maya once again dominates the round.
Round Eight: Max charges out once again to try and catch Maya by surprise. It's reach is far smaller than that of Maya's and can only land body shots. Max suddenly collapses to one knee as Maya lands a lethal upper-cut.
Maya reaches for the killer blow only to be stopped by the referee . Max is counted out once. It rises again but is knocked to the floor by Maya with spectacular right-hook. The fight is stopped and Maya retains his world championship titles.
I'm not sure i would want to know an archinect without anatomical gift,
but you got this one all wrong
Maya vs. Max
that is like saying Jenny vs. Jack
most dudes can take on the ladies in a boxing match (unless you are boxing ms. t. harding, that is one crazed bitch)
i give it to max
Max: assets - tons of models and materials, soooo many more than Maya. That means you don't have to worry about modeling flowers, plants, crazy furniture, etc., which means you make better renderings faster, which means more cash.
the functionality of maya is entirely open and extensible--that's why its an invaluable tool with animators. if you are interested in doing more than just modeling surfaces and doing good solid animation, then go with maya--its a great environment in which to experiment.
It sounds like max/viz is more "work" friendly (quicker and easier production, plus more materials and model resources because it has been around longer), whereas maya might have more potential for experimental work using custom aps/add ons?
incarnations of maya have been around for some time (as Alias & Wavefront), and therefore, have much documentation and script plug-ins. defining materials in maya can be complicated, but if you know your way around, you can create anything imaginable.
i think you guys are approaching the question all wrong. don't think of how one program functions in and of itself, but how it can accept or offer information to another program. Each has its strengths, so use them to your advantage.
i've found that most successful projects in our office have a work flow similar to this:
dynamics with particle shaping in MAYA
offsetting surfaces and detailing in RHINO
rendering in 3DS MAX
Max's new particles and character studio are on par with Maya, although I've not really done much (I read a lot, though).
The Maya/Max debate is old, and much is simply out dated. The character tools are both very good, as are the particles. The rendering is done with Mental Ray on both, and most of the plugin renderers (like Final Render that I use) is available for both.
The scripting capabilities are great with MaxScript, too (like free scripts and bitmaps for trees and plants, that's really wonderul!)
Again, the debate to me is more of compatibility with the market, not about which is 'better'. Both are excellent programs that very, very, very few ever get beyond the surface of, espcecially for architecture.
buy the software, uh... yeah, sure.
If you're a student, the cheapest copies around are at journeyed.com
maya costs $480 to $680 depending on which edition of the software you get. Max costs $600. There is no Mac version of Max.
Running illegal installation of the these software seems not right. (just because....not full function and unstable computer run)
(And I do not have any friend using Viz at the Mac..so can't borrow even if I wanted to..)
Interesting topic. I 've been in the 3d business for 5 years now, and I've never used maya. It used to be a lot more expensive than max, and the other advantage of max were compatibility with autocad, simple and user friendly modelisation, and 3rd party rendring plugins such as final render, vray or brazil. But there are now a lot of info about those coming to maya, which prices is now equivalent or under max and with higher modelisation power than max. I would like to find the energy to switch to maya but now I'm an old geezer and I don' have the time to play around with proggies anymore. So even with my old experience with max (about 10 years) I would recommend maya because it is soon to have the same advantages that max had, with a better stabitlity, mac compatibility and above all a display architecture that's not 20 years old and that brings a lot less problems when you're working with a high polygons model.
i still have yet to learn Viz and Rhino and plan to get onto that in auguest. i'm gonna learn it myself for most part. no classes or anything and am just going to base it on my autocad knowledge. is this a good idea?
and... if i learn Rhino first (people tell me that it's more intuitive than viz coming from autocad knowledge) will it make any difference on my learning of Viz after? will it make it easier?
Rhino is mad easy. You'll be up and running in 2 days tops. We use it over ADT 3.3 for blob models, complex roof structures, etc. Flamingo plugin is not to bad for quick rendering as well.
This is the website of a friend and colleague at the GSAP who is incredibly talented and really good with 3dmax, Brazil...the whole nine yards.
Check out his paintings as well!
*not responsible for the sound...address any questions to the man himself*
And yes that’s his voice. If he decided to quit his digital career he could easily become news men for NPR anytime.
Nice company, French. I really love the balance you guys have worked out between the photoreal and the abstract. It's got to be nice to get clients that want that!
formanaught - you tell me your name and I'll tell you mine ;-)
Thanks guys.
To be honest, the quality of a rendering really depends on a lot of factors: working for good architects and not for developpers, and above all producing renderings for competitions makes the difference I think. For exemple, the fact that renderers in the state don't get to work on competitions as much as we do here makes european renderingsa bit more a"dventurous", because the criteria of judgement are more architectural than commercial.
About sharing techniques, well I'm all for that and I actually do in other forums that are more specialized in 3d. If you have any specific questions I would be glad to answer.
Thanks for the nice comments anyway. It's good to know that the hard work is appreciated. I'll tell the others here.
Are you guys (mbr, .nl ) professional renderers too or architects?
I'm a designer/draftsman/modelmaker working at a small firm (4 persons) recently graduated (6 months ago) B.Sc.
I'm the 3d "expert" in the firm. Currently we're working on an invited competition for a privately funded museum for a very rich guy. Our design has to be presented with the most slickest renderings possible.
Luckily I get a lot of time to mess around with MAX, in my trial-and-error approach. The biggest problem I currently have is that I have to work on a generic crappy workstation, with little ram, on board video card etc etc. For my trial-and-error approach this sucks because test renderings require lots of time. If we win the promised me a better workstation!
French, those are good points. Most of my clients always want the typical photoreal, which is fine, but it'd be nice to play around. Plus, it's quicker to do 'abstract' stuff, it just takes a lot of experimenting (no worries about GI artifacts and all). All my personal stuff is semi abstract, there is just less of it as I get more and more busy.
I am an architect, designer, and 3D guy, working for myself, a large 3D house, and an architecture firm.
So what forums do you participate in? I'd love to chat in a more dedicated atmosphere.
Greeting
I am following your debate on progs and cons of graphics programs currently in use
I was an oracle programmer With a deep interest in 3d programming witch I have started taking courses recently in saudia-riyadh I feel I am not getting what I really need to advance my self in 3d here wise & instructor wise .
I am confused on to what program in best for me . so please advise me on the following (because I want ed as a career)
1) high quality T.V. ADS
2) Cinematographic special effects
(imaginary building)
(imaginary characters)
3)matching merging real an imaging
but I don’t want to shift from on program to another , because no program is perfect 100% so please advise me through which program I can achieve the items mentioned above ,not perfectly , but reasonably well
Maya or 3d Max
With consideration of the following
A)Pros and cons of the two programs with to respect my priorities mentioned above
b)how difficult on the comparably , and degree of difficulty
c) which is easier to master through experience and practice
d) how long I need to master any one of them
e)possibility to handling the above function masterly
f) employability opportunities in the west
3D Studio vs Maya
Which 3D modeling platform does your office use? 3D Studio / Autodesk VIZ or Maya?
Which do you prefer? Pros / cons?
3ds max 6, pros: lets you link and import cad files real easy and you can make killer renderings.
We have viz2005 here at the office. I've used max and maya quite a bit in school. I find doing architecture in max is faster and it supports autocad drawings quite well, which can be usefull if you're doing renderings based on cad drawings. I think maya has a bit more fine control over most parameters in the program, but I think all of that fine tuning slows down the production process. I will also say that Maya is much better at NURBS, so if you're into blobs, it's probably the way to go. Very few offices use Maya, esp compared to Max/viz.
Here's how I think the fight would play out:
Round One: Max launches into Maya with a left hand jab. Maya tries to use a heavy jab but Max retaliates with a great left hook. Maya lets it's guard down to let Max in with another left hook. Max seems to have done enough to win the first round.
Round Two: Maya is warned twice by the referee for holding. Maya lands three powerful right upper cuts on Max. Maya's plan to lure in Max close, appears to be working in a round that he almost certainly won.
Round Three: Max attempts to come in close to Maya but cannot land a punch as Maya fends it off with a number of jabs. Maya replies to Max's attempted hook by catching it on the eye. Max receives treatment to a cut above the right eye.
Round Four: Maya takes another blow to the chin from Max. Maya jabs it's way through Max's guard as it's face begins to swell. Max is pushed down on to the canvas by Maya and it has a point deducted by the referee.
Round Five: Maya looks for the swelling above Max's right eye and tries to reach it with his jab. Maya looks to have won yet another round after landing a number of point-scoring shots.
Round Six: A good right-left combination from Maya lands Max in all sorts of trouble. Maya tees up Max by pushing it's jab through the it's guard. Max looks jaded and it only seems a matter of time before it feels the full brunt of Maya's power.
Round Seven: Max charges out in the seventh. Maya teases Max into coming in close. Max and Maya exchange jabs. A right hook puts Max off balance as Maya once again dominates the round.
Round Eight: Max charges out once again to try and catch Maya by surprise. It's reach is far smaller than that of Maya's and can only land body shots. Max suddenly collapses to one knee as Maya lands a lethal upper-cut.
Maya reaches for the killer blow only to be stopped by the referee . Max is counted out once. It rises again but is knocked to the floor by Maya with spectacular right-hook. The fight is stopped and Maya retains his world championship titles.
I'm not sure i would want to know an archinect without anatomical gift,
but you got this one all wrong
Maya vs. Max
that is like saying Jenny vs. Jack
most dudes can take on the ladies in a boxing match (unless you are boxing ms. t. harding, that is one crazed bitch)
i give it to max
For architecture, Max/Viz easily wins.
Max: assets - tons of models and materials, soooo many more than Maya. That means you don't have to worry about modeling flowers, plants, crazy furniture, etc., which means you make better renderings faster, which means more cash.
That alone is reason enough to use it over Maya.
the functionality of maya is entirely open and extensible--that's why its an invaluable tool with animators. if you are interested in doing more than just modeling surfaces and doing good solid animation, then go with maya--its a great environment in which to experiment.
Thanks for the info.
It sounds like max/viz is more "work" friendly (quicker and easier production, plus more materials and model resources because it has been around longer), whereas maya might have more potential for experimental work using custom aps/add ons?
incarnations of maya have been around for some time (as Alias & Wavefront), and therefore, have much documentation and script plug-ins. defining materials in maya can be complicated, but if you know your way around, you can create anything imaginable.
i think you guys are approaching the question all wrong. don't think of how one program functions in and of itself, but how it can accept or offer information to another program. Each has its strengths, so use them to your advantage.
i've found that most successful projects in our office have a work flow similar to this:
dynamics with particle shaping in MAYA
offsetting surfaces and detailing in RHINO
rendering in 3DS MAX
3west, what type of projects are you doing that require particle systems?
Max's new particles and character studio are on par with Maya, although I've not really done much (I read a lot, though).
The Maya/Max debate is old, and much is simply out dated. The character tools are both very good, as are the particles. The rendering is done with Mental Ray on both, and most of the plugin renderers (like Final Render that I use) is available for both.
The scripting capabilities are great with MaxScript, too (like free scripts and bitmaps for trees and plants, that's really wonderul!)
Again, the debate to me is more of compatibility with the market, not about which is 'better'. Both are excellent programs that very, very, very few ever get beyond the surface of, espcecially for architecture.
How much are these?(Viz and Maya)
and what is the best website I can buy it cheap.
(Does Mac version cost more than PC version?)
buy the software, uh... yeah, sure.
If you're a student, the cheapest copies around are at journeyed.com
maya costs $480 to $680 depending on which edition of the software you get. Max costs $600. There is no Mac version of Max.
Maya starts at $2k
Viz at about $1900
Max at about $3500
Final Render is $800
Vray about the same
Brazil about $1200
Ain't cheap, for sure, then there are the yearly upgrades...
oops.very expensive..
Running illegal installation of the these software seems not right. (just because....not full function and unstable computer run)
(And I do not have any friend using Viz at the Mac..so can't borrow even if I wanted to..)
But, this cost too much!
I might just use Microstation Rendering.....
Interesting topic. I 've been in the 3d business for 5 years now, and I've never used maya. It used to be a lot more expensive than max, and the other advantage of max were compatibility with autocad, simple and user friendly modelisation, and 3rd party rendring plugins such as final render, vray or brazil. But there are now a lot of info about those coming to maya, which prices is now equivalent or under max and with higher modelisation power than max. I would like to find the energy to switch to maya but now I'm an old geezer and I don' have the time to play around with proggies anymore. So even with my old experience with max (about 10 years) I would recommend maya because it is soon to have the same advantages that max had, with a better stabitlity, mac compatibility and above all a display architecture that's not 20 years old and that brings a lot less problems when you're working with a high polygons model.
French, do you work at a certain well known 3D house that begins with an 'A'?
Just curious.
i still have yet to learn Viz and Rhino and plan to get onto that in auguest. i'm gonna learn it myself for most part. no classes or anything and am just going to base it on my autocad knowledge. is this a good idea?
and... if i learn Rhino first (people tell me that it's more intuitive than viz coming from autocad knowledge) will it make any difference on my learning of Viz after? will it make it easier?
Rhino is mad easy. You'll be up and running in 2 days tops. We use it over ADT 3.3 for blob models, complex roof structures, etc. Flamingo plugin is not to bad for quick rendering as well.
mbr
yes I do
mbr, is your name markus?
Just curious.
:P
This is the website of a friend and colleague at the GSAP who is incredibly talented and really good with 3dmax, Brazil...the whole nine yards.
Check out his paintings as well!
*not responsible for the sound...address any questions to the man himself*
And yes that’s his voice. If he decided to quit his digital career he could easily become news men for NPR anytime.
Nice company, French. I really love the balance you guys have worked out between the photoreal and the abstract. It's got to be nice to get clients that want that!
formanaught - you tell me your name and I'll tell you mine ;-)
French, I assume you work for Arte Factory?
If so, you're companies renderings are beautifull and quite inspiring to me. I hope one day I can produce renderings like these.
Maybe you can share some techniques?
Thanks guys.
To be honest, the quality of a rendering really depends on a lot of factors: working for good architects and not for developpers, and above all producing renderings for competitions makes the difference I think. For exemple, the fact that renderers in the state don't get to work on competitions as much as we do here makes european renderingsa bit more a"dventurous", because the criteria of judgement are more architectural than commercial.
About sharing techniques, well I'm all for that and I actually do in other forums that are more specialized in 3d. If you have any specific questions I would be glad to answer.
Thanks for the nice comments anyway. It's good to know that the hard work is appreciated. I'll tell the others here.
Are you guys (mbr, .nl ) professional renderers too or architects?
I'm a designer/draftsman/modelmaker working at a small firm (4 persons) recently graduated (6 months ago) B.Sc.
I'm the 3d "expert" in the firm. Currently we're working on an invited competition for a privately funded museum for a very rich guy. Our design has to be presented with the most slickest renderings possible.
Luckily I get a lot of time to mess around with MAX, in my trial-and-error approach. The biggest problem I currently have is that I have to work on a generic crappy workstation, with little ram, on board video card etc etc. For my trial-and-error approach this sucks because test renderings require lots of time. If we win the promised me a better workstation!
French, those are good points. Most of my clients always want the typical photoreal, which is fine, but it'd be nice to play around. Plus, it's quicker to do 'abstract' stuff, it just takes a lot of experimenting (no worries about GI artifacts and all). All my personal stuff is semi abstract, there is just less of it as I get more and more busy.
I am an architect, designer, and 3D guy, working for myself, a large 3D house, and an architecture firm.
So what forums do you participate in? I'd love to chat in a more dedicated atmosphere.
Cheers.
is a massive 3d/cg forum with hundreds of active users
I also browse regularly
http://www.chaoticdimension.com/forums
It is mostly dedicated to the vray plugin for max. Very useful if you use it.
Greeting
I am following your debate on progs and cons of graphics programs currently in use
I was an oracle programmer With a deep interest in 3d programming witch I have started taking courses recently in saudia-riyadh I feel I am not getting what I really need to advance my self in 3d here wise & instructor wise .
I am confused on to what program in best for me . so please advise me on the following (because I want ed as a career)
1) high quality T.V. ADS
2) Cinematographic special effects
(imaginary building)
(imaginary characters)
3)matching merging real an imaging
but I don’t want to shift from on program to another , because no program is perfect 100% so please advise me through which program I can achieve the items mentioned above ,not perfectly , but reasonably well
Maya or 3d Max
With consideration of the following
A)Pros and cons of the two programs with to respect my priorities mentioned above
b)how difficult on the comparably , and degree of difficulty
c) which is easier to master through experience and practice
d) how long I need to master any one of them
e)possibility to handling the above function masterly
f) employability opportunities in the west
tariq
abrintod@hotmail.com
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