Another set of reasons why Traditional architecture firms will be left in the dust!!!
1. Why the hell will you not give me your revit model when it will help improve construction efficiencies? I don't care if it's not perfectly modeled in 3D and you faked half of it. Give me the model. Your custom families mean nothing to me and people who are willing to share them will win this game.
2. If there is a 300 page drawing set and the owner already paid you to make it once, don't try to charge me $100 a sheet for the f-ing cad files. You're not making any money doing this and you're not making the project efficient by making a subcontractor redraw the details. Joke!
If you do this and put integrated design any where on your website I will call you out for the fake that you are.
Ok. Sorry for the rant. Anyone really believe in this crap? I find it completely indefensible.
you're not making the project efficient by making a subcontractor redraw the details.
Actually this is one of my biggest contractor pet peeves. It pisses me off when I get shop drawings that are nothing more than copies of my details. My drawing was only supposed to show my design intent; your shop drawings are telling me how you are going to construct that detail. They are two different things. It's not my problem if the contractor is too cheap or lazy to hire a draftsman to draw a decent set of shops.
I don't really understand what you are talking about the architect charging you $100/sheet. Who are you, the contractor? And the architect is not sharing the CAD files with you? That's just bizarre; most architects I know will share the CADs with the contractor during construction. That's common practice.
I am with won and Done on that shop drawing issue. Sorry but as an Architect I want to see that your shop drawings reflect the fact that you thought about it and you know what you are going to do. You are going to actually fabricate this stuff, ya know. You can make or break the functionality of a building in the shop drawing phase. If you regurgitate my drawings back to me with a few tiny light useless lines then it is harder to see if you know what is going on. There are some fabricators that ought to pay me $100 a sheet for wasting my time just to decipher their chicken scratch. (and there are fabricators who send works of art back to me too, an honor to work with them.)
That said if you are a fabricator and you prefer CAD files to umpteem paper copies of drawings that's okey dokey by me. So long as you send me back well thought out shop drawings. What gives.
Now if your the GC and your building the whole building then it certainly is greener (and cheaper) to send CAD files rather than prints.
Are they afraid you will modify the files some how or something? Weird.
I'm curious as to 'who are you' as well. Contractor? Sub bidding? I like to see sub's redraw everything just so it's clear they understand what's going on (as already mentioned). Then again, there's no reason for you to do shop drawings for a bid. Do you want the revit file so you can do area take offs or something like that?
Not to start a holy war, but revit is useless from what I've seen of it. It sucks for 3d modelling and it sucks for drafting. Combining the 2 into one process or whatever is a nice idea and all, but from what I've seen a contractor is better off building from a sketch-up model. Bidding would likely be better from pdf's of the construction drawings (unless some asshat with revit obfuscated the whole thing because it's easy to move a section)
Revit only sucks if you don't know it - thoroughly - It's great for 3D modeling and great for drafting - go to RevitKid.com and check out the tutorials there - but do learn it thoroughly -
Could have been a bit more clear. Been in the Architecture Camp, GC/CM Camp and now currently in the Sub-Contractor/Manufacturing Camp.
I have no problem putting together a tight set of shop drawings, but the process is much more efficient if I have your cad files so I'm not redrawing the steel and the wall types and the whatever else. I can detail my system, but don't make me redraw the whole thing from scratch.
Revit model is good way to understand enigmatic 2d aspects of CDs. Also allows me to cut sections at any point to start a new detail for my purposes. For me the shop drawing phase is not make or break. We do exterior metal panel systems so before we fabricate, everything is field measured.
When I was in the GC camp, I saw many architects require the $75-$100/ sheet fee for cad files. Many times the owner negotiated a lump sum for the entire set. This particular project apparently was not negotiated in such a manner. On the flip side, I've worked with Archs that give you everything you ask for without hesitation or request for compensation. (Smarter and already built into fee?) Not talking about dopes who don't know what they're doing either.
I'm with Won and Done as well, I've seen too many shops that were just regurgitated details from the cad files. I also don't see a problem with requiring compensation for the time it takes to turn a Revit file into a bunch of CAD files for the Contractor's use. If you didn't take the agreed-to amount of full-size sets I'll do you a solid and give you floor plans, but if you did, pay me for my time.
Apr 2, 12 5:24 pm ·
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Seriously, What's the Deal?
Another set of reasons why Traditional architecture firms will be left in the dust!!!
1. Why the hell will you not give me your revit model when it will help improve construction efficiencies? I don't care if it's not perfectly modeled in 3D and you faked half of it. Give me the model. Your custom families mean nothing to me and people who are willing to share them will win this game.
2. If there is a 300 page drawing set and the owner already paid you to make it once, don't try to charge me $100 a sheet for the f-ing cad files. You're not making any money doing this and you're not making the project efficient by making a subcontractor redraw the details. Joke!
If you do this and put integrated design any where on your website I will call you out for the fake that you are.
Ok. Sorry for the rant. Anyone really believe in this crap? I find it completely indefensible.
Your a consultant on the project, and the owner said you cant have his files?
you're not making the project efficient by making a subcontractor redraw the details.
Actually this is one of my biggest contractor pet peeves. It pisses me off when I get shop drawings that are nothing more than copies of my details. My drawing was only supposed to show my design intent; your shop drawings are telling me how you are going to construct that detail. They are two different things. It's not my problem if the contractor is too cheap or lazy to hire a draftsman to draw a decent set of shops.
I don't really understand what you are talking about the architect charging you $100/sheet. Who are you, the contractor? And the architect is not sharing the CAD files with you? That's just bizarre; most architects I know will share the CADs with the contractor during construction. That's common practice.
I am with won and Done on that shop drawing issue. Sorry but as an Architect I want to see that your shop drawings reflect the fact that you thought about it and you know what you are going to do. You are going to actually fabricate this stuff, ya know. You can make or break the functionality of a building in the shop drawing phase. If you regurgitate my drawings back to me with a few tiny light useless lines then it is harder to see if you know what is going on. There are some fabricators that ought to pay me $100 a sheet for wasting my time just to decipher their chicken scratch. (and there are fabricators who send works of art back to me too, an honor to work with them.)
That said if you are a fabricator and you prefer CAD files to umpteem paper copies of drawings that's okey dokey by me. So long as you send me back well thought out shop drawings. What gives.
Now if your the GC and your building the whole building then it certainly is greener (and cheaper) to send CAD files rather than prints.
Are they afraid you will modify the files some how or something? Weird.
I'm curious as to 'who are you' as well. Contractor? Sub bidding? I like to see sub's redraw everything just so it's clear they understand what's going on (as already mentioned). Then again, there's no reason for you to do shop drawings for a bid. Do you want the revit file so you can do area take offs or something like that?
Not to start a holy war, but revit is useless from what I've seen of it. It sucks for 3d modelling and it sucks for drafting. Combining the 2 into one process or whatever is a nice idea and all, but from what I've seen a contractor is better off building from a sketch-up model. Bidding would likely be better from pdf's of the construction drawings (unless some asshat with revit obfuscated the whole thing because it's easy to move a section)
Revit only sucks if you don't know it - thoroughly - It's great for 3D modeling and great for drafting - go to RevitKid.com and check out the tutorials there - but do learn it thoroughly -
Been using it for 6 years and I have no problems
CAD files? Revit models??? I'm still waiting for these guys to master the use of a scale and drawing triangle.
Could have been a bit more clear. Been in the Architecture Camp, GC/CM Camp and now currently in the Sub-Contractor/Manufacturing Camp.
I have no problem putting together a tight set of shop drawings, but the process is much more efficient if I have your cad files so I'm not redrawing the steel and the wall types and the whatever else. I can detail my system, but don't make me redraw the whole thing from scratch.
Revit model is good way to understand enigmatic 2d aspects of CDs. Also allows me to cut sections at any point to start a new detail for my purposes. For me the shop drawing phase is not make or break. We do exterior metal panel systems so before we fabricate, everything is field measured.
When I was in the GC camp, I saw many architects require the $75-$100/ sheet fee for cad files. Many times the owner negotiated a lump sum for the entire set. This particular project apparently was not negotiated in such a manner. On the flip side, I've worked with Archs that give you everything you ask for without hesitation or request for compensation. (Smarter and already built into fee?) Not talking about dopes who don't know what they're doing either.
I'm with Won and Done as well, I've seen too many shops that were just regurgitated details from the cad files. I also don't see a problem with requiring compensation for the time it takes to turn a Revit file into a bunch of CAD files for the Contractor's use. If you didn't take the agreed-to amount of full-size sets I'll do you a solid and give you floor plans, but if you did, pay me for my time.
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