Share stories about projects you "thought" you about to do, but never happened. if you can, tell WHY you didn't do the project.
The topic came to me because this just happened to me. Met a client on a referral from my real estate agent. We met, I showed him my work and then he immediately wanted to go to the site of where his new restaurant would be.
He was saying all the "right things" that would get any architect excited:
"Have you been to the W Hotel in NYC? I want that bathroom in my restaurant!! Toto fixtures and all!!"
"I had this idea of having water running over a plexiglass ceiling as you go in..."
"How much do you think it would cost me to purchase the air rights of the building next door so we can extend the addition above their building?"
It was a dream project and I thought about it night and day after we met. i could've given him the schematic design presentation the following week but I waited until he signed off on my fee proposal.
Ultimately, he had big dreams, but didn't have deep pockets. I gave him a fee in accordance with his dreams. He found a guy who lowballed it big time (almost HALF of my fee??!!), and gave him a number more in line with his pockets.
Substitute 'restaurant' with 'Home', 'Commercial Building', 'Cottage', etc.
and
Substitute '1/2 the fee' with nearly any fraction
and
...it happens to me pretty much weekly
Luckily, between these misses, enough people see that there is some value in higher fees (higher level of skill / service) that I continue to feed my family.
curtclay, i thought your potential client sounded like a nightmare. he is full of pre concieved ideas of whats cool #1, and he has no idea how much the things cost #2.
it is good to have design excited client but not so good to have someone who already have a packaged detail in their mind. it kills the design process before it starts and puts the designer in an uncomfortable position. imo.
last spring i was called by a design savy know-it-all potential client. after she proudly and know-it-allingly told me that she and her husband are closet case 'architects', she told me she is a mom and he is a lawyer in real life.
they had just bought a nice post and beam house on a hillside and they already had their cousin who is an intern in a star architect's office drew their ideas in scale. she asked me how much it would cost to build that and how much i would charge to put together technical drawings for their design and she expected not too expensive because they already did all the design work. it was an awful second floor addition with potential height and structural issues and really would destroy the house. i politely told her i'd get back to her and never called her back and she never called me back. i am not sorry at all.
i have many other stories but this one is still fresh in my mind.
on a side note,
it is more profitable to be recommended by someone who is richer than the ones looking to hire you. you can ask more and they'll pay. ie; if you are being interviewed by an associate in a law firm to do their house and you did the house of partner in the firm before, you can ask tons of money and they'll pay to be in the same leauge. not me but i saw this happen many times in other's offices where i worked.
Its work and falling in love with every project can be a young architects demise. Its important to love what you do and believe its done well but it is a business and "spinning your wheels" can bring you down in more ways than one. Always interview you clients as most people unless they have built before have no idea of the time, level of commitment and what it takes to produce a quality effort.
I used to get all caught up with every potential client but learned to sniff things out better ( predetermine the bullshit from true client and those that want to hang carrots in front of your face ). Sometimes you have to put in the effort to get those elusive public projects, but many times I'll just decide to pass and focus on known work rather than the never never projects. Many clients are dreamers and frankly I like to have projects built rather than just talked about or drawn. Remember its better to not work at all than work on a project that costs you money, adds liability or lands you in court, all things to consider when taking on any new client.
All good responses here. It is important to know when to tell a potential client that you are not a good fit.
We had one recently that made the decision, after we had presented two schemes to them and met with the CM for the building they were going in to, to do the design themselves. (No money had changed hands, no contract in place.) Honestly I was *relieved* that I didn't have to be the one to tell them that we didn't want to do the project, because they, like most, had no idea how much money was going to be needed, not just for our fees, but to do constrcution. And when we told them, they didn't believe it. And they would have been very high maintenance clients. VERY high maintenance.
At my old job we were first-runner-up for a big public project, I won't say what but it's very visible. We prepared like mad, did a huge dog and pony show for the interview, impressed the hell out of the committee, but ultimately did not get the job on basically a technical issue with our team. That was crushing: we had poured so much of our time and passion into just the interview, the project itself would have been amazing and I know we would have done it justice. Losing it hurt, a lot, but I would not have changed a single thing about our work to get it. I won't say what project it is because the "winning" team ended up producing a design so bad, so laughably hackneyed and lame, that it made me cry. Sigh.
If they start out with "Im gonin to do this right", or "This is going to be spectacular"...chances are it wont because they dont do that. The good ones seem to not say a word.
I saw it as less of a nightmare. We all have pre-conceived notions of what is cool... for some, post-modernism is cool, for me the W Hotel and the design aesthetic their hotels promote is pretty cool and I would love to be a part of project that strives towards that level of "hipster-coolness". I'd rather have a client that has a refined sense of taste, because the W Hotel is a pretty good starting point of reference for an interior design project compared to most clients who think the Olive Garden has a nice "feel" to it.
A community group that I belong to recently wanted to add an extension to their building. Although I'm just a student, I fell into the role of "mediator" between the group and the architect, because I once offered to turn the architect's initial cryptic sketch plans into a series of brightly colored, shadowed, 3D walk-through computer images. Everyone then immediately understood the architect's ideas, and there was a good deal of heated debate within the group about the design. Months went by, and the architect got fed up by all our squabbling, and was eventually dismissed. I started designing alternative schemes, all with colored 3D images, and presented them to the group. After a long period of discernment, a draftsman was finally engaged to draw up plans based (loosely) on one of my designs, and it got built.
I just want to make the observation that clients, particularly groups, may need a longer time to come terms with a project, time that a busy architect may not be able to afford to waste. This saga also suggested to me that there may be a niche for (low-paid) architecture students or interns to act as agents to mediate with clients at length about their needs and to gather intelligence on the proposed project on behalf of the architect.
I would greatly appreciate any comments on the feasibility of this idea, or clues on whether or not this is being done already? Thank you.
I suppose that it depends on how exactly you define a few of the words, but I'd probably guess that 80 per cent of what is discussed never gets built. Architecture is just littered with aborted ideas. Some that never make it past a napkin and some that get as far as half built (and then left to rot).
I actually think that it one of the more interesting things about the profession. That so much of what we work on never amounts to anything. Likewise, I find it fascinating that one could literally have a career (yes, even a successful and fully paid career) as an architect without ever really building anything.
I find it fascinating that one could literally have a career (yes, even a successful and fully paid career) as an architect without ever really building anything.
the first 8 years of my career I worked on dozens of projects - only a handful were actually built and only 2 while I was still working at the firm.
"Almost" getting a project... tell your stories here.
Share stories about projects you "thought" you about to do, but never happened. if you can, tell WHY you didn't do the project.
The topic came to me because this just happened to me. Met a client on a referral from my real estate agent. We met, I showed him my work and then he immediately wanted to go to the site of where his new restaurant would be.
He was saying all the "right things" that would get any architect excited:
"Have you been to the W Hotel in NYC? I want that bathroom in my restaurant!! Toto fixtures and all!!"
"I had this idea of having water running over a plexiglass ceiling as you go in..."
"How much do you think it would cost me to purchase the air rights of the building next door so we can extend the addition above their building?"
It was a dream project and I thought about it night and day after we met. i could've given him the schematic design presentation the following week but I waited until he signed off on my fee proposal.
Ultimately, he had big dreams, but didn't have deep pockets. I gave him a fee in accordance with his dreams. He found a guy who lowballed it big time (almost HALF of my fee??!!), and gave him a number more in line with his pockets.
Substitute 'restaurant' with 'Home', 'Commercial Building', 'Cottage', etc.
and
Substitute '1/2 the fee' with nearly any fraction
and
...it happens to me pretty much weekly
Luckily, between these misses, enough people see that there is some value in higher fees (higher level of skill / service) that I continue to feed my family.
curtclay, i thought your potential client sounded like a nightmare. he is full of pre concieved ideas of whats cool #1, and he has no idea how much the things cost #2.
it is good to have design excited client but not so good to have someone who already have a packaged detail in their mind. it kills the design process before it starts and puts the designer in an uncomfortable position. imo.
last spring i was called by a design savy know-it-all potential client. after she proudly and know-it-allingly told me that she and her husband are closet case 'architects', she told me she is a mom and he is a lawyer in real life.
they had just bought a nice post and beam house on a hillside and they already had their cousin who is an intern in a star architect's office drew their ideas in scale. she asked me how much it would cost to build that and how much i would charge to put together technical drawings for their design and she expected not too expensive because they already did all the design work. it was an awful second floor addition with potential height and structural issues and really would destroy the house. i politely told her i'd get back to her and never called her back and she never called me back. i am not sorry at all.
i have many other stories but this one is still fresh in my mind.
on a side note,
it is more profitable to be recommended by someone who is richer than the ones looking to hire you. you can ask more and they'll pay. ie; if you are being interviewed by an associate in a law firm to do their house and you did the house of partner in the firm before, you can ask tons of money and they'll pay to be in the same leauge. not me but i saw this happen many times in other's offices where i worked.
Its work and falling in love with every project can be a young architects demise. Its important to love what you do and believe its done well but it is a business and "spinning your wheels" can bring you down in more ways than one. Always interview you clients as most people unless they have built before have no idea of the time, level of commitment and what it takes to produce a quality effort.
I used to get all caught up with every potential client but learned to sniff things out better ( predetermine the bullshit from true client and those that want to hang carrots in front of your face ). Sometimes you have to put in the effort to get those elusive public projects, but many times I'll just decide to pass and focus on known work rather than the never never projects. Many clients are dreamers and frankly I like to have projects built rather than just talked about or drawn. Remember its better to not work at all than work on a project that costs you money, adds liability or lands you in court, all things to consider when taking on any new client.
All good responses here. It is important to know when to tell a potential client that you are not a good fit.
We had one recently that made the decision, after we had presented two schemes to them and met with the CM for the building they were going in to, to do the design themselves. (No money had changed hands, no contract in place.) Honestly I was *relieved* that I didn't have to be the one to tell them that we didn't want to do the project, because they, like most, had no idea how much money was going to be needed, not just for our fees, but to do constrcution. And when we told them, they didn't believe it. And they would have been very high maintenance clients. VERY high maintenance.
At my old job we were first-runner-up for a big public project, I won't say what but it's very visible. We prepared like mad, did a huge dog and pony show for the interview, impressed the hell out of the committee, but ultimately did not get the job on basically a technical issue with our team. That was crushing: we had poured so much of our time and passion into just the interview, the project itself would have been amazing and I know we would have done it justice. Losing it hurt, a lot, but I would not have changed a single thing about our work to get it. I won't say what project it is because the "winning" team ended up producing a design so bad, so laughably hackneyed and lame, that it made me cry. Sigh.
curtclay - did the lowballer by any chance suggest using an aquacolumn instead of the plexi ceiling?
If they start out with "Im gonin to do this right", or "This is going to be spectacular"...chances are it wont because they dont do that. The good ones seem to not say a word.
Aquacolumn... nice.
el jeffe,
if that dude is still in the profession, I'd be shocked....
Orhan,
I saw it as less of a nightmare. We all have pre-conceived notions of what is cool... for some, post-modernism is cool, for me the W Hotel and the design aesthetic their hotels promote is pretty cool and I would love to be a part of project that strives towards that level of "hipster-coolness". I'd rather have a client that has a refined sense of taste, because the W Hotel is a pretty good starting point of reference for an interior design project compared to most clients who think the Olive Garden has a nice "feel" to it.
A community group that I belong to recently wanted to add an extension to their building. Although I'm just a student, I fell into the role of "mediator" between the group and the architect, because I once offered to turn the architect's initial cryptic sketch plans into a series of brightly colored, shadowed, 3D walk-through computer images. Everyone then immediately understood the architect's ideas, and there was a good deal of heated debate within the group about the design. Months went by, and the architect got fed up by all our squabbling, and was eventually dismissed. I started designing alternative schemes, all with colored 3D images, and presented them to the group. After a long period of discernment, a draftsman was finally engaged to draw up plans based (loosely) on one of my designs, and it got built.
I just want to make the observation that clients, particularly groups, may need a longer time to come terms with a project, time that a busy architect may not be able to afford to waste. This saga also suggested to me that there may be a niche for (low-paid) architecture students or interns to act as agents to mediate with clients at length about their needs and to gather intelligence on the proposed project on behalf of the architect.
I would greatly appreciate any comments on the feasibility of this idea, or clues on whether or not this is being done already? Thank you.
Ego warfare
I suppose that it depends on how exactly you define a few of the words, but I'd probably guess that 80 per cent of what is discussed never gets built. Architecture is just littered with aborted ideas. Some that never make it past a napkin and some that get as far as half built (and then left to rot).
I actually think that it one of the more interesting things about the profession. That so much of what we work on never amounts to anything. Likewise, I find it fascinating that one could literally have a career (yes, even a successful and fully paid career) as an architect without ever really building anything.
Yo!
I find it fascinating that one could literally have a career (yes, even a successful and fully paid career) as an architect without ever really building anything.
the first 8 years of my career I worked on dozens of projects - only a handful were actually built and only 2 while I was still working at the firm.
just went thru this last week. And i know better!
a prospective client asked for a "quick sketch" to see what i had in mind after weeks of discussion and an unsigned fee proposal in front of him.
you can already guess the outcome.
that provoked a discussion about fees.....preliminary design fee? what for? its already done.
so i cut the fee....and didnt get the project.
neither did the other firm they considered.
this economy isn't helping.....
My favorite "almost got the project" stories finish with "thank God we didn't."
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