I, a foreign worker by myself, have found every day a challenge because of language barrier and so on.
As you already imagine, i'm one of those who's really quiet and working pretty hard but not interact with people too much. (i'm really reaching out here)
Do you habe any funny episode with my people?
we had a french guy work here and the boss would explain for ages in extreme detail what he had to do, the french guy would nod and say yup yup yup.
when the boss left i always asked him did he understand? and everytime he said he hadnt a clue what the boss was saying.
he was too afraid to admit that to the boss though.
no funny stories, wonllee, but an encouragement to get out and mix with your coworkers. it'll be good for your advancement and for your language skills.
there is the temptation to stay busy and productive so that your employers can see what you can do - and that's good - BUT if you're seen as just a production person and not a people person it will be hard to work your way into greater exposure to client meetings, construction administration, and other experiences you need to be a well-rounded architect.
to p2an's comment, make sure that you understand what's been said to you. don't just nod because that tells the person you're talking to that what has been said is clear to you. if it's not, it's on you and it's frustrating to your coworkers. some cultures have attitudes about hierarchy/authority that make it unacceptable to question their employers or management. in the us, if you don't question and know that you've understood what's expected of you, you'll be left behind.
i've worked before with foreign peers who got stalled in their careers for these reasons.
BOTS
FYI: the uk is the only place where the word 'trousers' is ised. they use pants in every other english speaking country. i was quite shocked when i first moved to the uk when someone told me that he was stepping out to 'have a fag' instead of 'smoke a cigarette'. talk about local idiosynchrasies!!
I worked in a firm in Boston, and a German guy only in the country for a short time found himself working late one evening to get a project done and being new, felt he must stay until the task at had was completed. So he bought a dinner from a local deli took it back to the office...and thought it might be nice to eat out side so proceeded to the roof and after eating him meal discovered he couldn't get back into the office building because the door locked behind him. So we went and stood on the edge of the roof and hollered down to the people on the street in his very best German....that he was locked on the roof.....some three hours later someone....figured out what his problem was and called the fire department....who brought a ladder truck and extracted him from the roof of the building.
there was a Romanian guy at the office where I worked last summer who rolled a joint while asking me a question at my desk. He's lived in the US for a few decades now though, so I think that had more to do with our being in New Hampshire than his being foreign
wonlee- i agree w/ steven. you should put yourself out there.
we had a guy that didn't have very good english which i think indirectly led him to be let go. it was very difficult to work with him as you had to explain everything very carefully. he was generally quiet and kept to himself and i think it definitely set him apart.
even if you're unsure of your english, it's better to try and get it wrong. and your english (by your writing) is definitely better than his was. i think a critical thing is to ask questions if you ever don't understand. in explaining things to the former coworker, you were never sure if he understood you or not. if you ask questions, it'll show you're paying attention and grasping things.
you need to learn American not english, and if you have an accent that doesnt sound mildly hillbillish than people will not understand you in the midwest...
wrong frank. The midwest accent is the absense of accent. This is why call centers are routinely place in areas like Omaha, so people cant tell where they're from. Newscasters are routinely trained to speak like a midwesterner for universal appeal.
Of course, living in Chicago I hear no less than 6 or seven langauges on the subway before work and must converse with hands, spanglish, broken german/english from tourists etc....
My funny story involves a drunken coworker who upon seeing the Polish girl, Romanian guy, Philipino girl, greek guy, all out w/ me after work slurred, "is the god dam united nations or something"? I, trying to moderate this could not help as the rather large Polish girl escalated it until He countered with .." oh the streets are paved with gold....", and asked the Philipino girl if she ate dogs, Needless to say the Polish girl defending them all, cocked him in the jaw. Dont mess with big Polish girls.
The instigator above now is unemployed and has multiple DUI's - justice is served.
Steven Ward, thanks for your suggestions. I'm a foreigner myself. I think I'm outgoing person. But it is hard to connect with some people with very different background. Especially if they are not interested. I found most of my American friends are people who are really open minded and interested in foreign culture.
I realized the same thing, the people with people skill move ahead, become principles, people lack of it become senior workers with special technique skills. I want to move ahead, but not sure if I have the chance. Especially I don't see project manager is foreigner in my office, or women principals. Foreign and woman, I think that may held me behind, even I work hard, smart and have a lot to offer. I wonder what are my best options. Work hard here see if any miracle will appear or find some company who may have foreigner at higher positions? Any advice?
Reason - You probably have one extremely important skill that multinational corporations are desperate for and that is langauge skill. It is an important and critical tool that firms pay top dollar for and can get you near the core of exciting projects.
Reason - Gensler has a Seattle office. I'm not sure if that office does international work.
I worked at a large firm in Chicago where one of my project managers was from Iraq and another from Korea. There was some comunication issues but for the most part they knew enough English and could speak other langauges which came in handy for trying to get work and participate in competitions in the mideast as well as Asia.
A young german chap and I were both interns at a firm for a spell, and what really impressed me was that this guy kept a small journal with him at all times, and would write down new words and phrases he encountered throughout the day. At the end of the conversation or at the end of the day he would ask me to explain the various situation to him. He had excellent english, but he struggled with some of the idiomatic expressions. I was glad to help, and it was really heartening to come across someone who was earnestly interested in extending his comprehension and continuing to improve. It made me more willing and excited to help him learn. It showed me that he wanted help to improve, and I was more likely to give it.
midwesterners have accents. chicago townies have accents, northern indianastaners from da region have accents, and ridge runners down by kentucky have accents.
Is anyone here working in England?... I always thought that the States would be the worst place to work in if you are not American.
The first practice I was with for my year out was auite small and everyone else apart from me were English….and that was a bit awkward, more so for them nonetheless!... But the office I’m working in at the moment is more international and that makes a lot of difference in how they treat foreigners….most of the time anyway!.... :)
my first week at SOM chicago, our studio head had a party at his house. we had interns from japan and spain, people from brazil and korea and china and poland. 25 people who among them probably spoke 15 languages. so he said, everyone bring something from your home country.
i went to sam's wine and liquor emporium at north & clybourn, walked into the wine section. trying my best to restrain my accent i asked, "do you have any texas wine?"
they laughed at me all the way over to the lone star beer, which i bought because there was no shiner.
so i go to the party and it was great. there was this tray of meat that was kind of like someone had gotten real mad at a brisket. i put some on my plate and got a fork. it was great, but kinda strange tasting. i asked someone, "hey, who marinaded this meat?"
it was italian beef and it was meant for the french bread that was in piles next to the tray. i was the furriner in this one. the partner who was there (native chicagoan) told me point-blank that i must be pretty good because SOM didn't usually hire hicks from texas.
funny thing with foreign workers for our office is that it changes who we want to use. a couple of years ago we took on lots of germans, lately we have used more italians and portuguese.
if the truth be told - we take whoever we can pay the least!
the least indeed!!!! it's rediculous really. i worked it out that i was making less than .75 euros an hour during the competition we worked on.
i nearly had to eat out of a garbage can trying survive on that salary. that kind of shit doesn't exist for interns in canada. the pay isn't spectacular when you start, but you have enough to wash your underwear more than once a month (if you want).
thouroughly enjoyed my time working abroad, looking to do it again in the spring.
ferd, i glad you valued your time in the office.
there is always alot of talk on this forum about students and graduates getting exploited (whinge whinge whinge) in offices - but i think spending 6 months or so in a good overseas office is priceless
in terms of exposure and experience.
okay, that doesnt help buy laundry detergent, but o well!
steph, i work at claus en kaan in amsterdam. we are always interested in new interns. send in a cv/portfolio. the pay for interns is in accordance with dutch law :)
And i quote "They appear to have been developed out of traditional Japanese woven or wooden soled sandals (i.e., zori and setta) in New Zealand."
Pants, go on the ouside..otherwise underpants wouldn't make any sense now woud it? :)
Working in a UK office with, Irish, Poles, Germans, Greeks, Australoans, Icelanders, Saffas, Welsh...and a few Poms to translate.
Love working with them all (except maybe the Saffas, they keep to themselves ans speak Afrikaans int he office, rude). Language crossovers are great. I had one of the Polish guys tell me "You are from yesterday" when I came in really hung over once. Brilliant.
Everyone is right tho, you gotta mix with the others in your office. It makes things run smoother wen you have a good relationship with your co-workers, and you'll learn a lot from the others over a beer after work.
I'm a Texan at an office in Ireland... well... Cork (which is known for its difficult accent). I hated when I had to call any of the "locals" to get some information (especially the older ones who mumbled, too). I always had to ask them to repeat themselves 3 or more times and still only had a vague idea of what they had said by the time it was finished. And supposedly we speak the same language.
There were some other interns who had english as a second or third language. Most of them would only talk to people through e-mail or SMSs because the accent was just too hard without the benifit of being able to pick up on body language for clues.
Two stories, we'll go in cronilogical order here. When I was in school, one of the projects we had to do was a boathouse. It took our professor, myself, and a couple other students about fifteen minutes to get the asian guy sitting next to me (Korean, I think) to understand that we were not designing a house-boat, or a boat on which people live, but a boat-house, or a building which houses boats.
Second, when I was an intern, there was another intern in the office from Germany. At christmastime, he was going back to Europe, and he said he'd be back on a certain day. We saw no reason to question it. Well, that day came and went, and no sign of the guy. Two or three days later, one of the principals gets an email from the guy saying that he couldn't get a flight back, and would try to be there by the end of the week! The principal wrote back not to bother. Who the heck goes to a foreign country without having a flight back, much less projects an intended arrival date based on a flight back which they do not have a ticket on???
wonllee,
i've worked with korean, czech, guatamalan, and salvadorian people and the best advice someone can give you is try and talk to people. the easiest way is to start one person at a time. Find someone who you think will be nice and start to talk to them. Use those conversations to work up your nerve and skill so that you will be comfortable talking to others.
Also DON'T be afraid to ask you boss to slow down and explain something over again. If they are the kind of person who this bothers, they are not someone you should want to work for. There are enough good places to work that you don't have to deal with the assholes if you don't want to.
i have a question regarding the practices in the netherlands. i know for sure that the m.arch program there is taught in english. but what language that is used in the office? would you have trouble if you didn't speak dutch?
i wanna go there for m.arch (or rather m.sci of architecture) next year. if i'm also thinking about working or interning there while or after my studies, do i need to know the language?
yup. i work alongside 5 chinese girls.
and everyday, they proceed to out produce me x100.
they work like maniacs. all day and all night.
and then the partners wonder what my problem is.
so my advice would be to talk as much as you can in order to even the playing field with we slow caucasians.
midwesterners have accents. chicago townies have accents, northern indianastaners from da region have accents, and ridge runners down by kentucky have accents.
Agreed. My English unfortunatelly got stuck with it after living in Wis-CAH-sin for 2 years (I'm originally from Puerto Rico). Hey there yay!
Appart from the accent, the colloquialisms is what I find funny. Like a pop isntead of Soda and bubbler for drinking fountain.
Foreign workers in your workplace. Any Episode?
I, a foreign worker by myself, have found every day a challenge because of language barrier and so on.
As you already imagine, i'm one of those who's really quiet and working pretty hard but not interact with people too much. (i'm really reaching out here)
Do you habe any funny episode with my people?
we had a french guy work here and the boss would explain for ages in extreme detail what he had to do, the french guy would nod and say yup yup yup.
when the boss left i always asked him did he understand? and everytime he said he hadnt a clue what the boss was saying.
he was too afraid to admit that to the boss though.
to the left Australian, to the right a New Zealand, infront Ireland and Hong Kong. I'm welsh and we all work in England!
At least we have the common language of rugby to share.
I piss myself with laughter when these antipodeans refer to wearing their 'pants' on the outside and the Ozzy claims to wear 'thongs' on his feet.
no funny stories, wonllee, but an encouragement to get out and mix with your coworkers. it'll be good for your advancement and for your language skills.
there is the temptation to stay busy and productive so that your employers can see what you can do - and that's good - BUT if you're seen as just a production person and not a people person it will be hard to work your way into greater exposure to client meetings, construction administration, and other experiences you need to be a well-rounded architect.
to p2an's comment, make sure that you understand what's been said to you. don't just nod because that tells the person you're talking to that what has been said is clear to you. if it's not, it's on you and it's frustrating to your coworkers. some cultures have attitudes about hierarchy/authority that make it unacceptable to question their employers or management. in the us, if you don't question and know that you've understood what's expected of you, you'll be left behind.
i've worked before with foreign peers who got stalled in their careers for these reasons.
BOTS
FYI: the uk is the only place where the word 'trousers' is ised. they use pants in every other english speaking country. i was quite shocked when i first moved to the uk when someone told me that he was stepping out to 'have a fag' instead of 'smoke a cigarette'. talk about local idiosynchrasies!!
i am the foreigner in my dutch office, but it still makes me laugh when i see my co-workers put chocolate sprinkles on their lunchtime bread.
to clarify uk lingo
I piss myself with laughter - to lose controll of ones bladder and urinate.
to take a piss - as above
to be pissed off - unhappy
on the piss - having a few alchoholic beverages
pissed - drunk
piss off - go away
to add to that list:
take the piss: joke or 'have a laugh' as they say in london.
not sure it's UK specific though...
I worked in a firm in Boston, and a German guy only in the country for a short time found himself working late one evening to get a project done and being new, felt he must stay until the task at had was completed. So he bought a dinner from a local deli took it back to the office...and thought it might be nice to eat out side so proceeded to the roof and after eating him meal discovered he couldn't get back into the office building because the door locked behind him. So we went and stood on the edge of the roof and hollered down to the people on the street in his very best German....that he was locked on the roof.....some three hours later someone....figured out what his problem was and called the fire department....who brought a ladder truck and extracted him from the roof of the building.
there was a Romanian guy at the office where I worked last summer who rolled a joint while asking me a question at my desk. He's lived in the US for a few decades now though, so I think that had more to do with our being in New Hampshire than his being foreign
did u smoke it with him?
have you ever drawn a window detail...
ON WEEEEEED?
wonlee- i agree w/ steven. you should put yourself out there.
we had a guy that didn't have very good english which i think indirectly led him to be let go. it was very difficult to work with him as you had to explain everything very carefully. he was generally quiet and kept to himself and i think it definitely set him apart.
even if you're unsure of your english, it's better to try and get it wrong. and your english (by your writing) is definitely better than his was. i think a critical thing is to ask questions if you ever don't understand. in explaining things to the former coworker, you were never sure if he understood you or not. if you ask questions, it'll show you're paying attention and grasping things.
you need to learn American not english, and if you have an accent that doesnt sound mildly hillbillish than people will not understand you in the midwest...
wrong frank. The midwest accent is the absense of accent. This is why call centers are routinely place in areas like Omaha, so people cant tell where they're from. Newscasters are routinely trained to speak like a midwesterner for universal appeal.
Of course, living in Chicago I hear no less than 6 or seven langauges on the subway before work and must converse with hands, spanglish, broken german/english from tourists etc....
My funny story involves a drunken coworker who upon seeing the Polish girl, Romanian guy, Philipino girl, greek guy, all out w/ me after work slurred, "is the god dam united nations or something"? I, trying to moderate this could not help as the rather large Polish girl escalated it until He countered with .." oh the streets are paved with gold....", and asked the Philipino girl if she ate dogs, Needless to say the Polish girl defending them all, cocked him in the jaw. Dont mess with big Polish girls.
The instigator above now is unemployed and has multiple DUI's - justice is served.
Steven Ward, thanks for your suggestions. I'm a foreigner myself. I think I'm outgoing person. But it is hard to connect with some people with very different background. Especially if they are not interested. I found most of my American friends are people who are really open minded and interested in foreign culture.
I realized the same thing, the people with people skill move ahead, become principles, people lack of it become senior workers with special technique skills. I want to move ahead, but not sure if I have the chance. Especially I don't see project manager is foreigner in my office, or women principals. Foreign and woman, I think that may held me behind, even I work hard, smart and have a lot to offer. I wonder what are my best options. Work hard here see if any miracle will appear or find some company who may have foreigner at higher positions? Any advice?
Reason - You probably have one extremely important skill that multinational corporations are desperate for and that is langauge skill. It is an important and critical tool that firms pay top dollar for and can get you near the core of exciting projects.
Evilpaltypus, Thank you! That is encouraging. DO you know any one in Seattle?
I often feel like a foreigner in American Architecture...I apprenticed into the profession.
Reason - Gensler has a Seattle office. I'm not sure if that office does international work.
I worked at a large firm in Chicago where one of my project managers was from Iraq and another from Korea. There was some comunication issues but for the most part they knew enough English and could speak other langauges which came in handy for trying to get work and participate in competitions in the mideast as well as Asia.
A young german chap and I were both interns at a firm for a spell, and what really impressed me was that this guy kept a small journal with him at all times, and would write down new words and phrases he encountered throughout the day. At the end of the conversation or at the end of the day he would ask me to explain the various situation to him. He had excellent english, but he struggled with some of the idiomatic expressions. I was glad to help, and it was really heartening to come across someone who was earnestly interested in extending his comprehension and continuing to improve. It made me more willing and excited to help him learn. It showed me that he wanted help to improve, and I was more likely to give it.
midwesterners have accents. chicago townies have accents, northern indianastaners from da region have accents, and ridge runners down by kentucky have accents.
Reading Vado's post reminded me of SNL's "da bears' skit...brings back memories when I use to live in Chicago.
Is anyone here working in England?... I always thought that the States would be the worst place to work in if you are not American.
The first practice I was with for my year out was auite small and everyone else apart from me were English….and that was a bit awkward, more so for them nonetheless!... But the office I’m working in at the moment is more international and that makes a lot of difference in how they treat foreigners….most of the time anyway!.... :)
my first week at SOM chicago, our studio head had a party at his house. we had interns from japan and spain, people from brazil and korea and china and poland. 25 people who among them probably spoke 15 languages. so he said, everyone bring something from your home country.
i went to sam's wine and liquor emporium at north & clybourn, walked into the wine section. trying my best to restrain my accent i asked, "do you have any texas wine?"
they laughed at me all the way over to the lone star beer, which i bought because there was no shiner.
so i go to the party and it was great. there was this tray of meat that was kind of like someone had gotten real mad at a brisket. i put some on my plate and got a fork. it was great, but kinda strange tasting. i asked someone, "hey, who marinaded this meat?"
it was italian beef and it was meant for the french bread that was in piles next to the tray. i was the furriner in this one. the partner who was there (native chicagoan) told me point-blank that i must be pretty good because SOM didn't usually hire hicks from texas.
p2an,
great shots on your flickr account. the new pad is a real change from the old digs on valeriustraat!
f
ha! so ferd. guess you know hey? a foreign worker no-less!
p2an, half of your office is from germany......
or at least it was during my time there.
i've found you out p2an!
funny thing with foreign workers for our office is that it changes who we want to use. a couple of years ago we took on lots of germans, lately we have used more italians and portuguese.
if the truth be told - we take whoever we can pay the least!
the least indeed!!!! it's rediculous really. i worked it out that i was making less than .75 euros an hour during the competition we worked on.
i nearly had to eat out of a garbage can trying survive on that salary. that kind of shit doesn't exist for interns in canada. the pay isn't spectacular when you start, but you have enough to wash your underwear more than once a month (if you want).
thouroughly enjoyed my time working abroad, looking to do it again in the spring.
go to sleep, p2an, it's late where you are.
ferd, i glad you valued your time in the office.
there is always alot of talk on this forum about students and graduates getting exploited (whinge whinge whinge) in offices - but i think spending 6 months or so in a good overseas office is priceless
in terms of exposure and experience.
okay, that doesnt help buy laundry detergent, but o well!
who needs detergent. water works fine.
loved the over seas exp!
miss the bike rides the most. that's why i gotta keep going back.
p2an where do u work? can i intern?
steph, i work at claus en kaan in amsterdam. we are always interested in new interns. send in a cv/portfolio. the pay for interns is in accordance with dutch law :)
Just to set the record straight:
link
hope that works, if not try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jandal
And i quote "They appear to have been developed out of traditional Japanese woven or wooden soled sandals (i.e., zori and setta) in New Zealand."
Pants, go on the ouside..otherwise underpants wouldn't make any sense now woud it? :)
Working in a UK office with, Irish, Poles, Germans, Greeks, Australoans, Icelanders, Saffas, Welsh...and a few Poms to translate.
Love working with them all (except maybe the Saffas, they keep to themselves ans speak Afrikaans int he office, rude). Language crossovers are great. I had one of the Polish guys tell me "You are from yesterday" when I came in really hung over once. Brilliant.
Everyone is right tho, you gotta mix with the others in your office. It makes things run smoother wen you have a good relationship with your co-workers, and you'll learn a lot from the others over a beer after work.
I'm a Texan at an office in Ireland... well... Cork (which is known for its difficult accent). I hated when I had to call any of the "locals" to get some information (especially the older ones who mumbled, too). I always had to ask them to repeat themselves 3 or more times and still only had a vague idea of what they had said by the time it was finished. And supposedly we speak the same language.
There were some other interns who had english as a second or third language. Most of them would only talk to people through e-mail or SMSs because the accent was just too hard without the benifit of being able to pick up on body language for clues.
Two stories, we'll go in cronilogical order here. When I was in school, one of the projects we had to do was a boathouse. It took our professor, myself, and a couple other students about fifteen minutes to get the asian guy sitting next to me (Korean, I think) to understand that we were not designing a house-boat, or a boat on which people live, but a boat-house, or a building which houses boats.
Second, when I was an intern, there was another intern in the office from Germany. At christmastime, he was going back to Europe, and he said he'd be back on a certain day. We saw no reason to question it. Well, that day came and went, and no sign of the guy. Two or three days later, one of the principals gets an email from the guy saying that he couldn't get a flight back, and would try to be there by the end of the week! The principal wrote back not to bother. Who the heck goes to a foreign country without having a flight back, much less projects an intended arrival date based on a flight back which they do not have a ticket on???
wonllee,
i've worked with korean, czech, guatamalan, and salvadorian people and the best advice someone can give you is try and talk to people. the easiest way is to start one person at a time. Find someone who you think will be nice and start to talk to them. Use those conversations to work up your nerve and skill so that you will be comfortable talking to others.
Also DON'T be afraid to ask you boss to slow down and explain something over again. If they are the kind of person who this bothers, they are not someone you should want to work for. There are enough good places to work that you don't have to deal with the assholes if you don't want to.
i have a question regarding the practices in the netherlands. i know for sure that the m.arch program there is taught in english. but what language that is used in the office? would you have trouble if you didn't speak dutch?
i wanna go there for m.arch (or rather m.sci of architecture) next year. if i'm also thinking about working or interning there while or after my studies, do i need to know the language?
thanks, guys
I always have problems with those zany Canadians. We must stop the Canadian menace!!!
yup. i work alongside 5 chinese girls.
and everyday, they proceed to out produce me x100.
they work like maniacs. all day and all night.
and then the partners wonder what my problem is.
so my advice would be to talk as much as you can in order to even the playing field with we slow caucasians.
Agreed. My English unfortunatelly got stuck with it after living in Wis-CAH-sin for 2 years (I'm originally from Puerto Rico). Hey there yay!
Appart from the accent, the colloquialisms is what I find funny. Like a pop isntead of Soda and bubbler for drinking fountain.
canadian interns rule. and they can teach the rest of the office how to drink as well.
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