so, graduated, yeah, uhm, nice one.
now that i am facing at least 6 months in a boring practice for my professional exam training (and we are talking refurbishing 16th century palaces to turn them into block of gratuitously expensive flats) i thought to myself, why not waste my time and their money pretending i'm working and instead learn some stuff?
my question being, if you were to learn one or two advanced cad programs, which one would you choose in terms of appeal to an employer/professional development?
catia?
GC? (would you need to learn microstation too, or would it be ok to know just gc?)
others i'm forgetting?
considering i know rhino, and max to a certain degree, what would i need to add for a job at your average hadid?
These softwares tend to have strengths and weeknesses.
CATIA/DigitalProject is the best in my opinion, but it is way expensive and way overkill for most architectural needs.
GC is promising, but it is still in Beta and is real buggy. It does a real good job with complex surfaces and with propigating components across these surfaces, but to get usable output, via 2d drawings or 3d cnc compatible formats, you have to pick up the microstation/triforma side. GC is great for scripting, and very friendly to people who think like programmers.
Solidworks is probably the most accessible and intuitive and not too expensive, but is really geared toward ID and mechanical engineering. SW is great for smallish assemblies without a lot of repetition of components. SW drawing generation is pretty rigid.
Many firms have given up on trying to find a single piece of software that will solve all problems, and instead, tend to have a few seats of each, which they use as it proves appropriate for the project.
If you want to spend the time learning something, learn a programming language and start scripting. Visual basic is most widely used, though C# seems to be gaining popularity (GCScript is based on C# and I think GC itself is coded in C#). Rhino is the most accessible for scripting. SolidWorks has a pretty good and helpful API. CATIA's scripting conventions are a pain in the arse.
cheers pub. i have a bit of vbscripting experience, but it seems like there is not that much application for it in practice yet (unless you work at form or some top secret division of KPF). i think i will have a look at catia/dp, although solidworks seems to be used by many offices as well, although doing both might be too much for my small brain.
have you used/do you use any of the above in practice?
I have used both, though I've used SW more extensively. Here's a general tip, assuming you have equal access to all of these packages. If you are interested in detailing the manufacture of building components, go for SolidWorks. If you are interested in more global form finding, generation, and rationalization, go for GC. If you are interested in both and don't mind a steeper learning curve, go for CATIA or DP (DP is more friendly to architects; CATIA is massive comes in niche specific bundles, and it can be daunting to sort through it all).
I will tell you that many firms find the cost of CATIA prohibitive (not just the software, but the support and training is very expensive), and so, if they use it at all, they usually have a very limited number of seats, which tend to be occupied by dedicated CATIA operators. I actually think that, if they ever get it all together and get it released, Bentley and GC will be the best for architecture.
Oh, don't forget Revit. I've never used it, and I hear it's clunky, but it is far more ubiquitous than any of these others in arch. firms.
just my 2 cents worth... Been using Revit for about a year now, easy to learn, can actually make drawing sets with it, rendering generally "cartoony" however not clunky at all as The Public (who has self admitidly never used it) describes (unless modeling up fantasmagorically unbuildable forms is your bag). Seems like more and more offices are switching to this platform. Realistic software for 99% of the places out there...
i should get in touch with a few beta testers...the gc beta is not available yet to the public is it?
thanks again public. i think gc will be the first i'll try, simply because form finding and generative components (exactly) is where my interest lies at the moment, and vb scripting, at least in rhino, takes a very long time to master to the point where it can be used in any streamilined way, specially at a creative/research stage.
maybe gc has the same problem, and i think it will be soon be replaces/overtaken by more user friendly parametric packages, but it's worth trying if only to learn a way of thinking about 3d and form.
GC = Generative Components. I have used the beta (and pre beta) and took a workshop with Robert Aish. Its really powerful and very buggy. You have to be very organized with your files (have the mind of a programmer) or they become corrupted. Its a more open platform than the others and if a software that merges manual parametric modeling and scripting is your thing than GC will probably be the answer (eventually)... and no you do not need to learn Microstation. I still have no idea how to use it. As for a copy thats another problem. You need Triforma, Bentley Structural and Microstation. GC is essentially a file you open into Bentley Structural so the lic files are for those applications not GC.
Catia (or Digital Project). is my preference. I'm less procedural in my process and like to combine mostly manual modeling with small scripts or "reactions" and "rules". One thing about DP is that it does not have the Optimization Workbenches that Catia has and those are some of the most powerful tools available AND relevant for architects. All and all Catia is a much more powerful modeler than GC which is essentially limited to the modeling tools of Mircostation. example the surface fillet command in Catia is far more powerful than the same command in GC..etc...
By the way I still use Rhino and Max for many things. One does not negate the other and there is no perfect software.... hope my two cents helps..
totally agree with what you say about not limiting yourself to one software, you still have to pick one at the time to learn in my opinion
tnarch, i've found a zipfile of catia tutorials, no idea how legal it is and how helpful they will be once i finish downloading them, but it's a start. i think i will start playing with gc, then we'll see. i'm sure you know someone who knows someone who has a copy...:)
tnarch, lol, when you say like that, it's a bit scary. the zip file is huge, about 700 mb, it looks like the tutorials are in different languages as well. and i haven't finished downloading it yet. i'll check it and sort through it and get back to you.
proficient? depends. i've been at it for almost two years, using it daily and i still feel like i don't know enough. but if someone is pointing you in the right direction and you have a good set of tutorials you can be up and running pretty quickly. if you'd like i can offer you some quick tips on how to get up and running.... let me know and i'll fwd some stuff to your email...
this is really ignorant of me,m but are catia and sw parametric? i've seen and almost used gc, in which way do they differ as far as modelling is concearned?
speaking personally, I find gc to be very difficult to use. I don't even put it on my resume anymore.. just because I think I'd still be pretty much lost on it if anybody actually forced me to work with it again.
gc is now commerically release[as of aug 2007] and the buggy bits are all gone !!
if your office is using any microstation product and has a select license its available to you right now! as a student if your institution uses it - most likely you have a home use license available for a full use release [good while your a student]
and you do not need to know anything about microstaion - its not required -- but as you become brilliant at it you dip back and forth to microstation --you have to install microstation as it is built on that platform.
discussion board www.gcuser.com run by a couple of gc geeks.
i have to say now using it for over 2 years i am an very advanced [probably low expert level] while they have a good help page no real tutorials and if your planning to get into it do a workshop somewhere - its not your everyday cad system if you want to be a power user.
catia, GC, projectwise etc
so, graduated, yeah, uhm, nice one.
now that i am facing at least 6 months in a boring practice for my professional exam training (and we are talking refurbishing 16th century palaces to turn them into block of gratuitously expensive flats) i thought to myself, why not waste my time and their money pretending i'm working and instead learn some stuff?
my question being, if you were to learn one or two advanced cad programs, which one would you choose in terms of appeal to an employer/professional development?
catia?
GC? (would you need to learn microstation too, or would it be ok to know just gc?)
others i'm forgetting?
considering i know rhino, and max to a certain degree, what would i need to add for a job at your average hadid?
or what cad package would make me a better person?
These softwares tend to have strengths and weeknesses.
CATIA/DigitalProject is the best in my opinion, but it is way expensive and way overkill for most architectural needs.
GC is promising, but it is still in Beta and is real buggy. It does a real good job with complex surfaces and with propigating components across these surfaces, but to get usable output, via 2d drawings or 3d cnc compatible formats, you have to pick up the microstation/triforma side. GC is great for scripting, and very friendly to people who think like programmers.
Solidworks is probably the most accessible and intuitive and not too expensive, but is really geared toward ID and mechanical engineering. SW is great for smallish assemblies without a lot of repetition of components. SW drawing generation is pretty rigid.
Many firms have given up on trying to find a single piece of software that will solve all problems, and instead, tend to have a few seats of each, which they use as it proves appropriate for the project.
If you want to spend the time learning something, learn a programming language and start scripting. Visual basic is most widely used, though C# seems to be gaining popularity (GCScript is based on C# and I think GC itself is coded in C#). Rhino is the most accessible for scripting. SolidWorks has a pretty good and helpful API. CATIA's scripting conventions are a pain in the arse.
cheers pub. i have a bit of vbscripting experience, but it seems like there is not that much application for it in practice yet (unless you work at form or some top secret division of KPF). i think i will have a look at catia/dp, although solidworks seems to be used by many offices as well, although doing both might be too much for my small brain.
have you used/do you use any of the above in practice?
i should try and use less although for a start
I have used both, though I've used SW more extensively. Here's a general tip, assuming you have equal access to all of these packages. If you are interested in detailing the manufacture of building components, go for SolidWorks. If you are interested in more global form finding, generation, and rationalization, go for GC. If you are interested in both and don't mind a steeper learning curve, go for CATIA or DP (DP is more friendly to architects; CATIA is massive comes in niche specific bundles, and it can be daunting to sort through it all).
I will tell you that many firms find the cost of CATIA prohibitive (not just the software, but the support and training is very expensive), and so, if they use it at all, they usually have a very limited number of seats, which tend to be occupied by dedicated CATIA operators. I actually think that, if they ever get it all together and get it released, Bentley and GC will be the best for architecture.
Oh, don't forget Revit. I've never used it, and I hear it's clunky, but it is far more ubiquitous than any of these others in arch. firms.
I would like to learn more about GC.
I know microsation and worked with digi design.
A link?
Sources?
thanks
where or when can i get a copy of GC?
just my 2 cents worth... Been using Revit for about a year now, easy to learn, can actually make drawing sets with it, rendering generally "cartoony" however not clunky at all as The Public (who has self admitidly never used it) describes (unless modeling up fantasmagorically unbuildable forms is your bag). Seems like more and more offices are switching to this platform. Realistic software for 99% of the places out there...
a good resource for gc tutorials (since the program does not yet have a help menu) can be found at http://www.eatyourcad.com/
its a start...and you can see potential that the program has by reading through the material
What's GC?
a parametric component based software developed by Bentley
http://www.smartgeometry.com/
i should get in touch with a few beta testers...the gc beta is not available yet to the public is it?
thanks again public. i think gc will be the first i'll try, simply because form finding and generative components (exactly) is where my interest lies at the moment, and vb scripting, at least in rhino, takes a very long time to master to the point where it can be used in any streamilined way, specially at a creative/research stage.
maybe gc has the same problem, and i think it will be soon be replaces/overtaken by more user friendly parametric packages, but it's worth trying if only to learn a way of thinking about 3d and form.
GC = Generative Components. I have used the beta (and pre beta) and took a workshop with Robert Aish. Its really powerful and very buggy. You have to be very organized with your files (have the mind of a programmer) or they become corrupted. Its a more open platform than the others and if a software that merges manual parametric modeling and scripting is your thing than GC will probably be the answer (eventually)... and no you do not need to learn Microstation. I still have no idea how to use it. As for a copy thats another problem. You need Triforma, Bentley Structural and Microstation. GC is essentially a file you open into Bentley Structural so the lic files are for those applications not GC.
Catia (or Digital Project). is my preference. I'm less procedural in my process and like to combine mostly manual modeling with small scripts or "reactions" and "rules". One thing about DP is that it does not have the Optimization Workbenches that Catia has and those are some of the most powerful tools available AND relevant for architects. All and all Catia is a much more powerful modeler than GC which is essentially limited to the modeling tools of Mircostation. example the surface fillet command in Catia is far more powerful than the same command in GC..etc...
By the way I still use Rhino and Max for many things. One does not negate the other and there is no perfect software.... hope my two cents helps..
RickB...how long did take you to be "proficient" with CATIA? Any suggestion for resources: links, books, etcc...???
ricky was that tutorial at the AA?
totally agree with what you say about not limiting yourself to one software, you still have to pick one at the time to learn in my opinion
tnarch, i've found a zipfile of catia tutorials, no idea how legal it is and how helpful they will be once i finish downloading them, but it's a start. i think i will start playing with gc, then we'll see. i'm sure you know someone who knows someone who has a copy...:)
biggie...i know you. kinda. can i get a copy from you? if you're feeling generous i'm at tnarch@gmail.com
tnarch, lol, when you say like that, it's a bit scary. the zip file is huge, about 700 mb, it looks like the tutorials are in different languages as well. and i haven't finished downloading it yet. i'll check it and sort through it and get back to you.
proficient? depends. i've been at it for almost two years, using it daily and i still feel like i don't know enough. but if someone is pointing you in the right direction and you have a good set of tutorials you can be up and running pretty quickly. if you'd like i can offer you some quick tips on how to get up and running.... let me know and i'll fwd some stuff to your email...
bigness,
i went to the worshops at MIT (fall 2005) and the GSD (spring 2006)...
RickyB, i'd like those tips very much. How would you describe the modelling environment? Is it more similar to Rhino or Maya?
this is really ignorant of me,m but are catia and sw parametric? i've seen and almost used gc, in which way do they differ as far as modelling is concearned?
Dear chinacatia: buy an ad and support the site, or find another place to sell you erectile disfunction potions.
speaking personally, I find gc to be very difficult to use. I don't even put it on my resume anymore.. just because I think I'd still be pretty much lost on it if anybody actually forced me to work with it again.
i hope chinacatia appreciates all of the free newsletters i just signed him up for..
been developing this software application for a couple of months now - would love feed back :)
www.designerpages.com/beta ; invitation code: shop
oh boy another on.
one.
gc is now commerically release[as of aug 2007] and the buggy bits are all gone !!
if your office is using any microstation product and has a select license its available to you right now! as a student if your institution uses it - most likely you have a home use license available for a full use release [good while your a student]
and you do not need to know anything about microstaion - its not required -- but as you become brilliant at it you dip back and forth to microstation --you have to install microstation as it is built on that platform.
discussion board www.gcuser.com run by a couple of gc geeks.
i have to say now using it for over 2 years i am an very advanced [probably low expert level] while they have a good help page no real tutorials and if your planning to get into it do a workshop somewhere - its not your everyday cad system if you want to be a power user.
man!
taht made me so excited i should really keep it in check!
all this time i havent been able to get a copy of gc, even tried to contact the beta testers...
anyway, now it should be easier!
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