i'm a big fan of autocad for 2d and formZ for 3d, although more and more people seem to swear by autocad and 3d studio. i've messed with revit and rhino, and they easy 3d programs for a fluent autocad draftsman, but tend to render poorly unless you obtain additional add ons for rendering. i also like archicad, a 2d-3d combo, but it is generally only useful for very small, simple projects, typically residential ones. it really doesn't allow for any complex curves or unorthodox materials to be specified, and is at times a bit to "automatic." i've used autocad add ons such as arch-T and architectural desktop, which are basically archicad wannabes that don't work as well. i've also done some nice 3d models in autocad, but the rendering is tough to figure out and slow, and i recommend sticking to basic 2d autocad. i personally think formZ is the best at rendering but some will swear its 3d studio, and admittedly one can made more "free form" objects easier in 3d studio.

i'm in the same boat as u bossman...

right now i only work in autocad and formz. but everyone does seem to love 3ds. i was thinking of taking a 3ds class just to get familiar with it. what about microstation? i've heard some offices use it such as morphosis. has anyone ever not get a job because they couldn't use a program that the office uses? is it wise to get familiar with a lot of programs or would that be a waste of time?

i've taken the route of learning a lot of programs, but its difficult to get fluent in several simultaniously. if i were you i'd get really, really fluent in formz (i'm good at it but not superfluent) but still take a 3ds class. i don't know 3ds at all and find it somewhat limiting in academia. my office uses microstation and autocad, and which you choose is basically a preference issue but most of our architects use autocad and engineers use microstation. i don't think it really matters which you choose; if you know autocad your fine as that is basically industry standard. i myself would like to learn microstation, though, as it is probably number two in the industry for CD's. i've heard students can get a legitimate version of it for like 30 bucks which is hard to beat, but i'm not sure if that is everywhere or just at my school. it is better to get extremely fluent with a few programs than vaguely familiar with a lot of them.

as you are talking programs i have to put out there the amazing amount of information on a thread i started for web software which you will need in school Web SIte Software ... the good ... the bad.... the ugly

Great stuff --- i am still going through the links!! and did a Print Version which you will find at the top of all discussion threads and saved to my hard drive for my future referance!!

you should try the search engine in archinect found on each page [discussion, links, news, etc]..it works..lots if stuff being built up!

((TED - that's cool that you used the Print Version. Mason White requested that feature and Paul thought Mason would be the only one that is so hardcore.))

too bad my first link was flawed. so for the initial thread try Web Site Software....the good.... the bad...the ugly ...

info on some threads / news is quit good and the print version works great as an archive tool!!!

I personally use a potent cocktail of Microstation, form-z and Cinema 4d. CAD ->3d->Render. Cinema 4d isn't as popular as Max but is very easy to use and STABLE. Max has all kinds of stability issues. Cinema 4d has a supa-fast radiosity renderer as well. The only problem I find is that everyone and their mom uses max so if you want to get a job somewhere doing 3d you had better learn it. Microstation is good for 3d too but I still stick with what I learned in school.

i am learning microstation now, it is a bit more difficult than i anticipated. there are so many friggin options and menus, it seems pretty cool though.

If you are forced into a situation where using microstation is the only option, you can reach a point where you are productive with the software in 2 weeks and have a feeling of mastery within 4 weeks. The hardest part in the process of learning is coming to a realization that 'microstationisms' will occurr irregardless of any precautions you take to be systematic and careful whilst drawing. (sparky you may already know what i mean)

If you have time on your hands to go about learning new pieces of software step up to the plate and choose: Max or Maya. Pick one, and go to work. Microstation can be learned quickly relative to Max or Maya and is far inferior in modeling capabilities and rendering output. Dont limit yourself, choose a tool that gives you the most flexibility.

AG is right Max has stability issues, use Maya

i've played for a few days with both maya and max. the impression i get is that max is the easier app to do architectural (i.e. boxy) forms in, whereas maya is much more blobby. is this accurate? i'm struggling like hell with both of them to be honest...

just finished a project for class where i modeled my place in max. i found it really tough to accurately assemble the pieces and have it all be nice and tight. i assume when you do the drawing in autocad first and export to max that's not such a big deal, right? i was trying to work from a series of measurements and a few bits of plan and section that i drew as 2d in illustrator and imported into max. kinda nightmarish... would you guys say this was a dumb way to work? should i get my feet wet in cad at the same time i'm learning 3d?

oregon - maybe you're modeling abilities in Microstation are inferior. By the way, they want new presentation renderings of AIC next week. Argh.

AG - you're right my modeling abilities in microstation are sub par, I was being pessimistic because i think i know what else is out there. That said, I prefer Microsoft Paint above all else. Good luck with the renderings of that hacked up model!

crillywazzy - Max and Maya can do anything you want and they can be precise. The interface of either is not intuitive and you will need some type of guide or tutorial to learn them effectively.

I use AutoCAD most of the time, and Max whenever the 3d need arises.

I started using max and maya 6 years ago. I found Maya's interface and workflow more intuitive. But I find Max faster for modeling architecture (i.e. boxy). I think more firms use max (or it's lesser cousin Viz). Learning your first 3d program is the hardest because all of the concepts are new. Once, you're good at one, it takes a lot less time to get used to another.

I wll also add that both max and maya are quite a bit different than when I first started using them. Whatever program you learn today will be very different down the road.

oregon - I was just kidding, your model is fine. I do see the evidence from when you imported it from Paint though...

AG - i know you were joking, my attempts at internet sarcasm are pretty bad. In fact i think my attempts at real world sarcasm are pretty bad as well.

Paint will always be number 1 in my book. What else was there back in the IIGS days? Kid Pix or something like that and Print Shop, those were amazing. Where has all the quality gone?

What about Rhino? What are people's opinions on that program? I actually started learning 3d on Rhino b.c. it is so easy and intuitive. But then i found file sizes became way too big and its sister program flamingo didnt produce that great of renderings. It was also very difficult to import rhino into Max to do renderings and manipulate objects.

Dan brings up a good point about the future of these programs. Should one just choose and stick with it as it grows and changes?

rhino's great. i find it much, much more convenient than Max on a number of occasions, but if anything Rhino is a bit TOO precise. tweaking models, or doing quick, sketchy models is clumsy and irritating. plus, its a pain to do some of the stuff that Max's modifiers do really simply, like make a lattice, for example.

But, rhino rocks. and its so similar to autocad, that you can reach advanced amateur levels in a couple of days.

rhino does rock. it will soon usurp both maya and max in offices--based on its cost alone. plenty of plugins too, including penguin, a renderer that's half-way decent.

Rhino just announced they are integrating the Brazil render into their app. (many say Brazil is second to only to PR Renderman in quality & versatility)

uuughh you guys rhino is really easy to use and versitile, but it renders terribly, even with flamingo it doesn't compare to 3ds or formz

Dude! Brazil for Rhino! Sweet! I've been exporting from Rhino to Max and it's kind of a pain, and some times stuff gets messed up in the process, and the file sizes get rediculous sometimes, being able to do it all in Rhino would be great. I personally still use FormZ alot as well.

no body mentioned archicad its a very good software for architects,it has very powerful modeling abilities and it gives great presentation type drawing plus its no sweat to learn.
check it out.
Archtilldeath

yeah i also did for so long the Rhino to MAX for rendering...
my recomendation, just use the one u r more gifted with... i know guys who earn their life as professional 3d artists and their formula pretty much is to jump from software to software depending on the task and the finsih they want....