I'm loosing more and more jobs over lawyers and doctors that "practice architecture" in the evening hours. They take AutoCAD of Revit classes and read books on making cd's and their off. They can design a family homes and in one case even a new hospital wing for half the price I would charge, yet they receive twice as much, because they have clients from their regular day job that have money. Not to mention that they have a much bigger network of people than what I have, because they have the money to spend their Sunday afternoon at the yacht and golf club.
To make matters worse, my brother-in-law is a doctor who started practicing architecture 2 years ago and has now more clients than I do. He has the newest computers and 2 large format HP designjets 5500 stash away in the addict. He wants me to work for him. Now isn't that embarrassing?
It really makes me think that the profession we are in is quite easy that anyone can do it. They may not do it as good as we do, but it is possible. You can compare architecture to a chef. Sure we all can cook but not as good as the chef. But even if take the time to learn the trades we can be as good as the chef. However none of us can perform an operation on weekends as a hobby.
in all our ethics and philosophy courses at school it inevitably came out that our profession has protected legal status for very dubious reasons.
personally i figger if someone can do the work and has insurance for liability then why not? i'm also quite happy to work with anyone who can keep up with me, whether professionally trained or not.
out of curiosity though how did your bro in law legally do a job for a hospital wing? here it would be both too large and in a building group requiring a licenced architect to stamp. where you live there is no requirement like that?
you can always pay an architect a small fee to stamp your drawings - that's really not a problem as long as your drawings are decent. This happens all the time.
harold - marketing is half of any successful business, if not more. You could be the greatest architect in the world, but without good marketing you'll sit with nothing to do. The worst architect, as evidenced by several successful/horrible firms, can do quite well with good business and marketing skills.
Of course, a lot of luck and a lot of patience/perseverance is crucial. I'd go talk to a marketing firm/person and get yourself more clients than your brother in law.
I am an attorney .... and I am currently in arch. school. Although I practiced law for several years, I never, ever thought I could suddenly, comfortably slip into the guise of an architect and start doing design work.
Like you said trace...getting a stamp was not a problem. Getting the job to design an extra wing at the hospital was even easier, especially if it's the hospital you work in.
Architecture just may be the type of profession where with some effort anyone can do it. Some architects design websites as a part time business too, but none of us will ever perform a heart surgery on a dog on weekends for extra cash.
What is also interesting is that people somehow trust doctors to do an architect’s job, yet we have to fight to get someone’s trust.
BTW, I live in Nassau county Long Island, and it is not that different from anywhere else.
Frankly, I'd feel pretty sorry for a doctor who practices architecture on the side. Becoming a doctor is a lot of work, and to go through all that and discover that what you really want to do is become an architect, well that's just sad. Perhaps you should suggest therapy for this person.
On the other hand, marketing is a skill, and the training one seems to get in dealing with normal humans in architecture school doesn't seem to emphasize clarity, honesty, or effective communication, among other things.
my new doctor, a resident at iu med school, who i just visited told me he always dreamed of being an architect. he said that his older sisters were all doctors as well. i said well doc you should have studied architecture cuz you may actually have a built in client base. frankly, there are many talented people out there who are perfectly capable of doing decent residential design. and of course there are probably millions who are perfectly capable, and do, of designing shit.
I can't imagine what life would be like working as a doctor in the daytime and practising architecture at night....I guess these people dont really have a life....
Why some doctors don't become architects from the start is easy. It's all about money. Firts of all, doctors like any other person wants to earn a decent living. Being a doctor you can at least design your own house, something 0,1 % of all architects can do. We are like those people in China who make nike sneakers but can't afford to wear them. Second of all, being a doctor and doing architecture at night means no financial stress. this way you can have the cake and eat it too. And finally, you get much more respect being a doctor and doing architecture on the side than just being an architect.
"being a doctor and doing architecture at night means no financial stress. this way you can have the cake and eat it too." --- Hmm looks like you dont know how stressed out most doctors and architects are...
mmmh, my dad is a dentist and stupid me I've decided to become an architect.
I might start to work as a dentist (of course, without a degree).
I have spent my entire childhood in his studio, I have partecipated to mostly of his conferences, I just need some practice, but I know every single patients, they would trust me no matter what.
I never wanted to be an architect, I wanted to be a doctor,
but here in Suriname you have to win a lottery (literally) to attend med school. Unfortunately I didn't get in.
Most of the ones who did are idiots who didn't even know what heterosexual meant (i'm not kidding), had failing grades and didn't have a high school diploma, thanks to some loop hole in our messed-up education sytem!
i know a few doctors who are concert ready pianists (somehow they find the time to practice) so is maybe not a stretch to have them designing as well.
However i don't think for a minute a doctor would spend any time at a drafting board doing cd's, nor doing more than consultation for even just a wing of a hospital. not enough time in the day for that, and as OF pointed out a hospital is a big team project by default...
but they could be doing the prelim design for houses here and there, and handing off to someone with a stamp to make them real. that was the image i was making in my head anyway...
Does anyone know where I can find a doctor to sign medical records for me? I've been performing some surgeries on the side and need someone to cover my liability.
Yeah, I worked on a hospital addition. Granted, it was big (730,000 SF), but it took several of us more than half a year just to work out the program alone. I'm sure that some doctors do design in their spare time, but the point about liability is the kicker. Insurance for a medical practice already costs an arm and a leg. I can't even imagine the cost of architectural liability insurance on top of that.
I could see a residential addition or something, but for a new wing to a hospital, even a small one, you would need a whole team of experienced architects, engineers of every flavor, most likely a specialized health care consultant, etc., etc. Plus, health care organizations are VERY cautious clients. There's no way they'd hire a single person for the job, especially one who already has a demanding, more-than-full-time job already. And one who's not a registered architect? Give me a break.
Was this an addition to a plastic-surgery clinic or something? It COULD NOT have been a whole new hospital wing. Just couldn't happen.
actuality, given most of the medical facilities that i've seen (and i have worked on several of these projects) the designs are so horrible that i'd like to believe it was the result of doctors practising architecture and not the responsibility of architects.
i'd describe the bigger problem with design of medical facilities as being too limited by the constraints of the controlled environments which require massive amounts of hvac equipment and subsequently massive amounts of input from engineers & consultants which typically limits the impact of the architect. combine the fact that most of these projects take years to happen and are under heavy pressure from technological change (i.e., by the time they are built some of them are almost obsolete already) and are typically in urban locations with limited growth potential (and significant parking concerns) and its no wonder that most of them are un-appealing and appear to be deigned by doctors.
doctors and medical professionals rank right up there with school teachers as being the most dowdy and least tasteful group of people that i've ever met but that's okay because i'm talking nonsense now and am on a tangent and need to go to bed or drink some whisky or something.
i did far too many hopsitals in my old office to think about. i hated doing them then and hate the thought of doing them now. for me the whole approach is just wrongheaded. i mean when the guys in control of the whole dinkum are telling you that the courtyards and back yards just have to be paved in concrete so that they won't have to worry about patients falling down because of the grass tangling their feet....well, it is time to stop doing hospitals. the whole deal is just an exercise in making a really bad, very hi-tech, hotel....
you have convinced me Ol Fogey. the whole idea is jes rubbish.
Jun 27, 06 8:07 am ·
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Doctors and laywers that are partime architects
I'm loosing more and more jobs over lawyers and doctors that "practice architecture" in the evening hours. They take AutoCAD of Revit classes and read books on making cd's and their off. They can design a family homes and in one case even a new hospital wing for half the price I would charge, yet they receive twice as much, because they have clients from their regular day job that have money. Not to mention that they have a much bigger network of people than what I have, because they have the money to spend their Sunday afternoon at the yacht and golf club.
To make matters worse, my brother-in-law is a doctor who started practicing architecture 2 years ago and has now more clients than I do. He has the newest computers and 2 large format HP designjets 5500 stash away in the addict. He wants me to work for him. Now isn't that embarrassing?
It really makes me think that the profession we are in is quite easy that anyone can do it. They may not do it as good as we do, but it is possible. You can compare architecture to a chef. Sure we all can cook but not as good as the chef. But even if take the time to learn the trades we can be as good as the chef. However none of us can perform an operation on weekends as a hobby.
in all our ethics and philosophy courses at school it inevitably came out that our profession has protected legal status for very dubious reasons.
personally i figger if someone can do the work and has insurance for liability then why not? i'm also quite happy to work with anyone who can keep up with me, whether professionally trained or not.
out of curiosity though how did your bro in law legally do a job for a hospital wing? here it would be both too large and in a building group requiring a licenced architect to stamp. where you live there is no requirement like that?
In which states do it happen?
Don't you have to be a registered architect to do some kind of work, like a brand new hospital wing?
Narc on him...
you can always pay an architect a small fee to stamp your drawings - that's really not a problem as long as your drawings are decent. This happens all the time.
harold - marketing is half of any successful business, if not more. You could be the greatest architect in the world, but without good marketing you'll sit with nothing to do. The worst architect, as evidenced by several successful/horrible firms, can do quite well with good business and marketing skills.
Of course, a lot of luck and a lot of patience/perseverance is crucial. I'd go talk to a marketing firm/person and get yourself more clients than your brother in law.
I am an attorney .... and I am currently in arch. school. Although I practiced law for several years, I never, ever thought I could suddenly, comfortably slip into the guise of an architect and start doing design work.
Like you said trace...getting a stamp was not a problem. Getting the job to design an extra wing at the hospital was even easier, especially if it's the hospital you work in.
Architecture just may be the type of profession where with some effort anyone can do it. Some architects design websites as a part time business too, but none of us will ever perform a heart surgery on a dog on weekends for extra cash.
What is also interesting is that people somehow trust doctors to do an architect’s job, yet we have to fight to get someone’s trust.
BTW, I live in Nassau county Long Island, and it is not that different from anywhere else.
Frankly, I'd feel pretty sorry for a doctor who practices architecture on the side. Becoming a doctor is a lot of work, and to go through all that and discover that what you really want to do is become an architect, well that's just sad. Perhaps you should suggest therapy for this person.
On the other hand, marketing is a skill, and the training one seems to get in dealing with normal humans in architecture school doesn't seem to emphasize clarity, honesty, or effective communication, among other things.
my new doctor, a resident at iu med school, who i just visited told me he always dreamed of being an architect. he said that his older sisters were all doctors as well. i said well doc you should have studied architecture cuz you may actually have a built in client base. frankly, there are many talented people out there who are perfectly capable of doing decent residential design. and of course there are probably millions who are perfectly capable, and do, of designing shit.
I can't imagine what life would be like working as a doctor in the daytime and practising architecture at night....I guess these people dont really have a life....
(and yes, despite my name, Im not a doctor)
Why some doctors don't become architects from the start is easy. It's all about money. Firts of all, doctors like any other person wants to earn a decent living. Being a doctor you can at least design your own house, something 0,1 % of all architects can do. We are like those people in China who make nike sneakers but can't afford to wear them. Second of all, being a doctor and doing architecture at night means no financial stress. this way you can have the cake and eat it too. And finally, you get much more respect being a doctor and doing architecture on the side than just being an architect.
doctors aren't getting that popular anymore....i mean look at all the lawsuits these days
"being a doctor and doing architecture at night means no financial stress. this way you can have the cake and eat it too." --- Hmm looks like you dont know how stressed out most doctors and architects are...
so my dream of practicing architecture during the day and being an orthopedic surgeon at night is not dead? definitely cool!
mmmh, my dad is a dentist and stupid me I've decided to become an architect.
I might start to work as a dentist (of course, without a degree).
I have spent my entire childhood in his studio, I have partecipated to mostly of his conferences, I just need some practice, but I know every single patients, they would trust me no matter what.
Doctor's burry their mistakes.
i haff a var room to dezine!
this "thread" is really depressing :(
I never wanted to be an architect, I wanted to be a doctor,
but here in Suriname you have to win a lottery (literally) to attend med school. Unfortunately I didn't get in.
Most of the ones who did are idiots who didn't even know what heterosexual meant (i'm not kidding), had failing grades and didn't have a high school diploma, thanks to some loop hole in our messed-up education sytem!
Now they'll be able to play "architect"...
remind me never to get sick in suriname...
OldFogey, I meant to call bullshit a while back on this post, but did not, because i did not have enough knowledge to back up my words....
But at the same time, situations like these might be true in smaller towns where doctors don't have very intense workloads. Who knows....
i suspect old fogey is correct.
i know a few doctors who are concert ready pianists (somehow they find the time to practice) so is maybe not a stretch to have them designing as well.
However i don't think for a minute a doctor would spend any time at a drafting board doing cd's, nor doing more than consultation for even just a wing of a hospital. not enough time in the day for that, and as OF pointed out a hospital is a big team project by default...
but they could be doing the prelim design for houses here and there, and handing off to someone with a stamp to make them real. that was the image i was making in my head anyway...
good on them for having a go. it shows the weakness of architects if such a thing is happening.
Does anyone know where I can find a doctor to sign medical records for me? I've been performing some surgeries on the side and need someone to cover my liability.
Yeah, I worked on a hospital addition. Granted, it was big (730,000 SF), but it took several of us more than half a year just to work out the program alone. I'm sure that some doctors do design in their spare time, but the point about liability is the kicker. Insurance for a medical practice already costs an arm and a leg. I can't even imagine the cost of architectural liability insurance on top of that.
I could see a residential addition or something, but for a new wing to a hospital, even a small one, you would need a whole team of experienced architects, engineers of every flavor, most likely a specialized health care consultant, etc., etc. Plus, health care organizations are VERY cautious clients. There's no way they'd hire a single person for the job, especially one who already has a demanding, more-than-full-time job already. And one who's not a registered architect? Give me a break.
Was this an addition to a plastic-surgery clinic or something? It COULD NOT have been a whole new hospital wing. Just couldn't happen.
actuality, given most of the medical facilities that i've seen (and i have worked on several of these projects) the designs are so horrible that i'd like to believe it was the result of doctors practising architecture and not the responsibility of architects.
i'd describe the bigger problem with design of medical facilities as being too limited by the constraints of the controlled environments which require massive amounts of hvac equipment and subsequently massive amounts of input from engineers & consultants which typically limits the impact of the architect. combine the fact that most of these projects take years to happen and are under heavy pressure from technological change (i.e., by the time they are built some of them are almost obsolete already) and are typically in urban locations with limited growth potential (and significant parking concerns) and its no wonder that most of them are un-appealing and appear to be deigned by doctors.
doctors and medical professionals rank right up there with school teachers as being the most dowdy and least tasteful group of people that i've ever met but that's okay because i'm talking nonsense now and am on a tangent and need to go to bed or drink some whisky or something.
hahaha,
oh that is a feeling i can relate to.
i did far too many hopsitals in my old office to think about. i hated doing them then and hate the thought of doing them now. for me the whole approach is just wrongheaded. i mean when the guys in control of the whole dinkum are telling you that the courtyards and back yards just have to be paved in concrete so that they won't have to worry about patients falling down because of the grass tangling their feet....well, it is time to stop doing hospitals. the whole deal is just an exercise in making a really bad, very hi-tech, hotel....
you have convinced me Ol Fogey. the whole idea is jes rubbish.
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