If Notebook, anything that has good processing power and enough memory. Core i5 at least and 4gb of memory at least.
For Desktop, build your own. You'll save tons of money and can configure it any way you want. The machine I've built cost about 1/2 of a high-end Mac, and is about 2x as powerful.
If you are unfamiliar with building your own, or don't want to take the risk (what little is involved), again just make sure it has enough processing and memory power.
Ultimately the brand makes absolutely no difference. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a corporate fanboy. Find an operating system you are comfortable with, iOS or Windows, and go from there.
Oh, and typically rendering is based on your CPU, so Core i7 would be your best bet. However, some rendering programs are quickly switching over to GPU-rendering, so your video card may play a bigger role that before.
So, invest in a quality video card, or make sure whichever pre-built machine you choose has a quality card.
Be cautious about ATI cards though. They may be cheaper and claim to have equal performance to Nvidia, but they are well known to crap out and have issues. Also they are incompatible with CUDA processing, which many rendering programs use.
i would go with a minimum of 8 gigs at this point.
a core i5-2500K will pretty much give you best performance for your money, but a core-i7 will do better even thought it's a tad more expensive.
i disagree with brian's assessment gpu-rendering. gpu rendering is great, but realistically, octane is the only renderer that is actively supporting CUDA instead of using more general GPU frameworks or considering adopting OpenCL. Next Limit has already stated that they will not support CUDA since it would be like forcing their customers into a specific piece of hardware, and IndigoRenderer has a few OpenCL versions of its rendering software floating around.
In my experience, ATI cards are a lot more stable than nVidia cards and play well with lots of other hardware. remember, ATI had a DirectX 11 card out for a few months while nVidia scrambled to adopt the standard, all the while making people wonder if they had ever intended to.
Oh yeah, and if you buy an apple, you're throwing money into the trashcan. and if you buy a dell, you're doing the same. I'm a massive fan of Acer, Asus and Samsung when it comes to laptops. Desktops: you should learn to build one. We aren't in the 90's anymore. It's an essential skill. Just like operating a remote control or dialing a phone number.
Strange, I've found nVidia more stable than ATI. Anyway, Vray RT will also support CUDA (preview renders after adjusting materials can really add to your total rendering time).
Rendering aside, you do want a decent graphics card for 3D modeling too. I think OpenGL compatibility is what you want to look for (different from OpenCL).
CPU-wise the i7 2600K is the best value when its overclocked (and as long as you already had a good cooling method in place).
Also, I wouldn't call Apple a waste of money, not for notebooks anyway. Their notebooks, the ones with discreet graphics cards, generally offer a better size/weight/performance ratio -- something that should be important when you're buying a notebook, otherwise just build a desktop. In my experience, Apple's drivers for windows are more stable than other manufacturers. Lenovo's thinkpads aren't bad either (not the ideapads), and are probably some of the most durable notebooks I've seen.
As you can see, everyone will have their preferences. But something pretty much everyone will agree on is that in order to get the best bang for your buck: Built your own rig! :D
With Apple, you're way too restricted. I cannot stress enough on HOW restricted you are in terms of every thing that is needed in the Architectural technology.
With PCs you can customize the builds (or get it built) for a powerful system that can render a lot of CPU / GPU-intensive stuff.
This is my latest build (Only a month old) and I'm loving it. The specs are in the link. I haven't really used any rendering applications for it yet, but I know I will in the future since I'm studying Architecture.
Anyway, it would be ALWAYS more convenient in the price/quality ratio to get a desktop than a laptop. But to make it worthy, I'd say the desktop should have at least 8gb RAM, an i7 processor and at least 2 GPU (Nvidia GTX with CUDA cores, not QUADRO or TESLA for affordability reasons) (the guy who said that only Octanium supports CUDA is wrong. VRAY RT, Iray, VRED, an many others support GPU Cuda Core rendering).
If you go for a laptop, and you want to get the best performance out of your money, I'd forget about MAC. I think the best laptops out there are ASUS, MSI, DELL and SAGER.
I just recently ordered & have started running a close to maxed out lenovo W520, plus docking station, bag, wireless keyboard/mouse, and monitor stand for about $2,300 - including tax and shipping - through a combination of their online coupon plus a little internet searching to find a link to order through their Barnes & Noble Gold reward page
@rickie - most of the programs listed are for pc only, so you'd have to boot/parallel your mac if you want to actually start up those programs
i've always used a mac platform but honestly after working in two offices that use pc, i'm thinking of switching for two main reasons. price (pc you get same specs for hundreds cheaper), and more importantly the diversity of programs that you actually really need are all available in pc, and are limited in mac.
another perk is that if you want to play around with programs at home there are much more cracks online than for a pc. that said, i'm typing this on my beloved macbook pro.
I grew up Mac, and it was only after entering the professional world that I started using PCs. If I were assembling my own shop, I think I would go back to Mac for one reason only: the Mac OS is so far superior to Windows. I spend all day tolerating the pop ups, bumps and hiccups of Windows - to me, Windows is the symbol of the cubicle grind.
I tend to do very little on the modelling/rendering side of the arch-y world; much more on the data/graphics end. The only program I would anticipate having to run Parallels for is ArcGIS. I've heard mixed reviews on AutoCAD for Mac (haven't yet tried it myself), but my feeling is that it is something that you get used to without any major inherent flaws in the platform switch. Again, I'm not a big AutoCAD user and have rarely modelled in the program, so I would probably buy an LT version and do whatever modelling I need in Sketchup.
In terms of iMac specs, this is what I've been looking at:
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1GB GDDR5
That computer will run you about $3,000. Yeah, that's a chunk of change, but it's your virtual work environment and worth spending the extra dough to get what you really want.
If I were ever to hire employees, I would probably buy one PC work station to run ArcGIS, but keep the rest of the office Mac. Mac/PC transferability is fairly seamless these days.
I disagree. Windows 7 is far superior to OS X or whatever crap apple is peddling these days. Closed ecosystems, when it comes to computer software, may appear more stable for the uninitiated, but they sacrifice a ton in terms of performance and flexibility.
Furthermore, what modeling/drafting software do you expect to use? If you're thinking of vectorworks, you'll find an under-cooked product, which claims to be compatible with AutoCAD but in fact will result in hours spent troubleshooting consultant drawings or hours spent switching machines to get it into actual fabrication software (when was the last time you saw a CAM machine running on OS X?). AutoCAD on a mac can only do so much when it comes to rationalizing form.
If you're considering setting up a new office, you're shooting yourself in the foot by picking a Mac.
And if you're having issues with pop ups, and hiccups on Windows, it is mostly because of your inability to use a computer.
"And aren't you a Michigan grad? That post was pure Buckeye... ;)"
DON'T JOKE YO
---
all kidding aside, fabrication is something everyone should be concerned with. i've seen architects waste $15,000 on a waterworks bathtub when being quoted $10,000 by a custom resin fabricator, just because they cuoldn't be bothered to learn how to make an STL model with no naked edges (what the fabricator was asking for).
--
you hit a nerve by proxy. apologies for the morning flame.
I too am interested in replacing an aged computer at home ( Dell) 6 years old with a new one that will alow me to run autocadd google sketchup and possibly the latest trendy architectural software that's in expensive yet has decent 3d render capabilities. I am an architectural tweener ... A licenced practioner for the past twenty years that has only dabbled in autocadd and sketchup 3d renderring only When needed, who specializes in project design and management. I am interested in continuing in producing my own 3d renderings and graphics to communicate my ideas........not be a 3d renderring world beater who can compete with the latest architecture school grads and software.
I researched various computer specs from architecture school websites and used those specs to get quotes from Dell (roughly 2000) Hewlett packard (roughly 1350) and best buy
who reccomended either a samsung laptop (1100) or a gateway desktop (1000). I am now just interested in acost effective system that will serve me well for the next 4 years.......what are most reader's prederrence when comparing a new desktop to a new laptop concerning durability?
Thanks
Broadstreetexpresstrain
my desktop still competes neck to neck with a i5-2500K (it's a Q9550) and I built it for a $1,000 about 3 and half years ago.
i bough my laptop about a year ago, it performs; but right now I could get the same laptop at half the weight with the same performance for the same price. that somewhat annoys me, especially since I bought a netbook to compensate for the lack of portability.
I built a custom computer i5 core 2500k . can't remember the video card and I think 8gb ram, blah blah. the first week the thing went nuts and kept crashing. when i moved it home that smooth as ice.
tip learn to build your own computer before school starts. play with it for a few weeks/months and make sure there is no clinks.
don't be cheap on the cooling system. buy a good $50 fan and paste for your cpu.
and buy a power supply around 1000w.
Total with discounts on newegg, I spend $800 with a 22" monitor..... I found my same computer on ebay for $900 without the monitor... already built. so you might check it out there, it might save you some headache having someone build it for you.
GL!
if you live in Portland, let me know I can build you a sweet computer for a small fee.
BSET - laptops will always cost more for less, so you can't really compare them. Never could, never will be able to. That's like comparing a Ferrari to a Monster Truck.
Personally, my time is too valuable to waste putting together, trouble shooting, etc., a new computer. That's me, though. I also put a lot of value on a warranty, can't tell you how much money/time it has saved to have a Dell technician show up and fix while I make some coffee.
You can't beat the pricing, so it is more about whether you like to take things apart and work on things or not.
For cost, it always comes down to "get the best you can afford". There will always be better, you will always need more space, a faster processor/more ram will always make things better.
Buy the best you can afford. In 4 years, you'll be happier with knowing you have something more current than saving a few hundred.
The Mac vs PC thing will never die. but when it comes to designers there's some things to consider. computer programming, like if you were running Processing or something would be better in the Mac, same with any Adobe product, nearly every graphic designer i know uses a Mac.
Programs like Rhino and Grasshopper really require a PC. There is no Grasshopper option for the Mac, and probably wont be a stable version for several years, McNeal is too busy finishing up the Rhino 5 release. The Rhino version for mac is also not put together very well and will need several more service pack releases to become usable.
Maya is on the Mac as well, but I'm not sure how that performs, I've never used it.
I was trying to decide between a Mac and Pc for gradschool this fall. I really wanted to do a mac switch, but at the end of the day I'm a Rhino guy who uses Grasshopper all the time, so I would really be just booted in the PC version most of the time. I know, I know, Mac people say that Windows is more stable on a Mac anyway, but Windows 7 has been pretty impressive when it comes to stability and performance for me.
Basically you can get comparable pc hardware specs with a macbook, but its about half the price, allowing you to double up on things like memory, a better cpu and graphics card. although mac lovers will argue that Mac hardware is more efficent when you go with this argument.
I'm leaning towards a Lenovo, Acer or Samsung. Best bet is to wait til right before you need it if your heading to gradschool or something, as prices always go down or better specs arise. If the macbook pro design is a driving factor, some of the Ultra Book options from companies look pretty comparable and nice. Although there have been mixed reviews on some, I think in the next 4-6 months with the next generation of releases these issues will clear up.
heres a mac/pc debate from the people on the grasshopper forum:
computer programming, like if you were running Processing or something would be better in the Mac.
incorrect.
processing runs on java, you gain no advantage from being on a mac. if it has jdk, it will run. furthermore, java benchmark results generally show macs lagging behind pc's, especially if you go all-out intensive with data manipulation.
on top of that, being on a mac would actually set you back with most other languages since you'd have to wait for mac-specific libraries to become available, and these are generally less common than windows libraries.
Mar 22, 12 7:16 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
apple vs dell? best computers for archie software
what are your recommendations for computers. best for rendering, autocad, revit, microstation and adobe...all advice is welcome.
Notebook or Desktop?
If Notebook, anything that has good processing power and enough memory. Core i5 at least and 4gb of memory at least.
For Desktop, build your own. You'll save tons of money and can configure it any way you want. The machine I've built cost about 1/2 of a high-end Mac, and is about 2x as powerful.
If you are unfamiliar with building your own, or don't want to take the risk (what little is involved), again just make sure it has enough processing and memory power.
Ultimately the brand makes absolutely no difference. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a corporate fanboy. Find an operating system you are comfortable with, iOS or Windows, and go from there.
Oh, and typically rendering is based on your CPU, so Core i7 would be your best bet. However, some rendering programs are quickly switching over to GPU-rendering, so your video card may play a bigger role that before.
So, invest in a quality video card, or make sure whichever pre-built machine you choose has a quality card.
Be cautious about ATI cards though. They may be cheaper and claim to have equal performance to Nvidia, but they are well known to crap out and have issues. Also they are incompatible with CUDA processing, which many rendering programs use.
2 cents.
i would go with a minimum of 8 gigs at this point.
a core i5-2500K will pretty much give you best performance for your money, but a core-i7 will do better even thought it's a tad more expensive.
i disagree with brian's assessment gpu-rendering. gpu rendering is great, but realistically, octane is the only renderer that is actively supporting CUDA instead of using more general GPU frameworks or considering adopting OpenCL. Next Limit has already stated that they will not support CUDA since it would be like forcing their customers into a specific piece of hardware, and IndigoRenderer has a few OpenCL versions of its rendering software floating around.
In my experience, ATI cards are a lot more stable than nVidia cards and play well with lots of other hardware. remember, ATI had a DirectX 11 card out for a few months while nVidia scrambled to adopt the standard, all the while making people wonder if they had ever intended to.
Oh yeah, and if you buy an apple, you're throwing money into the trashcan. and if you buy a dell, you're doing the same. I'm a massive fan of Acer, Asus and Samsung when it comes to laptops. Desktops: you should learn to build one. We aren't in the 90's anymore. It's an essential skill. Just like operating a remote control or dialing a phone number.
Strange, I've found nVidia more stable than ATI. Anyway, Vray RT will also support CUDA (preview renders after adjusting materials can really add to your total rendering time).
Rendering aside, you do want a decent graphics card for 3D modeling too. I think OpenGL compatibility is what you want to look for (different from OpenCL).
CPU-wise the i7 2600K is the best value when its overclocked (and as long as you already had a good cooling method in place).
Also, I wouldn't call Apple a waste of money, not for notebooks anyway. Their notebooks, the ones with discreet graphics cards, generally offer a better size/weight/performance ratio -- something that should be important when you're buying a notebook, otherwise just build a desktop. In my experience, Apple's drivers for windows are more stable than other manufacturers. Lenovo's thinkpads aren't bad either (not the ideapads), and are probably some of the most durable notebooks I've seen.
As you can see, everyone will have their preferences. But something pretty much everyone will agree on is that in order to get the best bang for your buck: Built your own rig! :D
With Apple, you're way too restricted. I cannot stress enough on HOW restricted you are in terms of every thing that is needed in the Architectural technology.
With PCs you can customize the builds (or get it built) for a powerful system that can render a lot of CPU / GPU-intensive stuff.
This is my latest build (Only a month old) and I'm loving it. The specs are in the link. I haven't really used any rendering applications for it yet, but I know I will in the future since I'm studying Architecture.
Also, Nvidia over ATI. I prefer that myself too!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bleak_deliverances/6794038401/in/set-72157625303619967
ASUS g73 are great laptops.
Anyway, it would be ALWAYS more convenient in the price/quality ratio to get a desktop than a laptop. But to make it worthy, I'd say the desktop should have at least 8gb RAM, an i7 processor and at least 2 GPU (Nvidia GTX with CUDA cores, not QUADRO or TESLA for affordability reasons) (the guy who said that only Octanium supports CUDA is wrong. VRAY RT, Iray, VRED, an many others support GPU Cuda Core rendering).
If you go for a laptop, and you want to get the best performance out of your money, I'd forget about MAC. I think the best laptops out there are ASUS, MSI, DELL and SAGER.
I just recently ordered & have started running a close to maxed out lenovo W520, plus docking station, bag, wireless keyboard/mouse, and monitor stand for about $2,300 - including tax and shipping - through a combination of their online coupon plus a little internet searching to find a link to order through their Barnes & Noble Gold reward page
http://shoplenovo.i2.com/SEUILibrary/controller/Lenovo:EnterStdAffinity?affinity=barnesnoblegold&ConfigContext=StdAffinityPortal
following specs:
Intel Core i7-2860QM Processor (2.50 GHz, 8MB L3)
1920x1080 display
NVIDIA Quadro 2000M Graphics with 2GB DDR3 Memory
pantone color sensor
8 gigs ram - 2 dims (out of 4 available slots)
500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
3 year total protection warranty...etc...
Building your own computer is only cost-effective if your time is unbillable/you don't have a job. Who has time to search for device drivers anymore?
Your computer doesn't automatically update them for you? Time to build a new one! :D
@rickie - most of the programs listed are for pc only, so you'd have to boot/parallel your mac if you want to actually start up those programs
i've always used a mac platform but honestly after working in two offices that use pc, i'm thinking of switching for two main reasons. price (pc you get same specs for hundreds cheaper), and more importantly the diversity of programs that you actually really need are all available in pc, and are limited in mac.
another perk is that if you want to play around with programs at home there are much more cracks online than for a pc. that said, i'm typing this on my beloved macbook pro.
I grew up Mac, and it was only after entering the professional world that I started using PCs. If I were assembling my own shop, I think I would go back to Mac for one reason only: the Mac OS is so far superior to Windows. I spend all day tolerating the pop ups, bumps and hiccups of Windows - to me, Windows is the symbol of the cubicle grind.
I tend to do very little on the modelling/rendering side of the arch-y world; much more on the data/graphics end. The only program I would anticipate having to run Parallels for is ArcGIS. I've heard mixed reviews on AutoCAD for Mac (haven't yet tried it myself), but my feeling is that it is something that you get used to without any major inherent flaws in the platform switch. Again, I'm not a big AutoCAD user and have rarely modelled in the program, so I would probably buy an LT version and do whatever modelling I need in Sketchup.
In terms of iMac specs, this is what I've been looking at:
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1GB GDDR5
That computer will run you about $3,000. Yeah, that's a chunk of change, but it's your virtual work environment and worth spending the extra dough to get what you really want.
If I were ever to hire employees, I would probably buy one PC work station to run ArcGIS, but keep the rest of the office Mac. Mac/PC transferability is fairly seamless these days.
I disagree. Windows 7 is far superior to OS X or whatever crap apple is peddling these days. Closed ecosystems, when it comes to computer software, may appear more stable for the uninitiated, but they sacrifice a ton in terms of performance and flexibility.
Furthermore, what modeling/drafting software do you expect to use? If you're thinking of vectorworks, you'll find an under-cooked product, which claims to be compatible with AutoCAD but in fact will result in hours spent troubleshooting consultant drawings or hours spent switching machines to get it into actual fabrication software (when was the last time you saw a CAM machine running on OS X?). AutoCAD on a mac can only do so much when it comes to rationalizing form.
If you're considering setting up a new office, you're shooting yourself in the foot by picking a Mac.
And if you're having issues with pop ups, and hiccups on Windows, it is mostly because of your inability to use a computer.
You should work on that.
fluxbound, I suspect we have very different needs in our office environments. (I have little need for fabrication software, for example.)
No need to flame; it's simply my opinion.
And aren't you a Michigan grad? That post was pure Buckeye... ;)
"And aren't you a Michigan grad? That post was pure Buckeye... ;)"
DON'T JOKE YO
---
all kidding aside, fabrication is something everyone should be concerned with. i've seen architects waste $15,000 on a waterworks bathtub when being quoted $10,000 by a custom resin fabricator, just because they cuoldn't be bothered to learn how to make an STL model with no naked edges (what the fabricator was asking for).
--
you hit a nerve by proxy. apologies for the morning flame.
People still use autocad?!
I too am interested in replacing an aged computer at home ( Dell) 6 years old with a new one that will alow me to run autocadd google sketchup and possibly the latest trendy architectural software that's in expensive yet has decent 3d render capabilities. I am an architectural tweener ... A licenced practioner for the past twenty years that has only dabbled in autocadd and sketchup 3d renderring only When needed, who specializes in project design and management. I am interested in continuing in producing my own 3d renderings and graphics to communicate my ideas........not be a 3d renderring world beater who can compete with the latest architecture school grads and software. I researched various computer specs from architecture school websites and used those specs to get quotes from Dell (roughly 2000) Hewlett packard (roughly 1350) and best buy who reccomended either a samsung laptop (1100) or a gateway desktop (1000). I am now just interested in acost effective system that will serve me well for the next 4 years.......what are most reader's prederrence when comparing a new desktop to a new laptop concerning durability? Thanks Broadstreetexpresstrain
my desktop still competes neck to neck with a i5-2500K (it's a Q9550) and I built it for a $1,000 about 3 and half years ago.
i bough my laptop about a year ago, it performs; but right now I could get the same laptop at half the weight with the same performance for the same price. that somewhat annoys me, especially since I bought a netbook to compensate for the lack of portability.
I built a custom computer i5 core 2500k . can't remember the video card and I think 8gb ram, blah blah. the first week the thing went nuts and kept crashing. when i moved it home that smooth as ice.
tip learn to build your own computer before school starts. play with it for a few weeks/months and make sure there is no clinks.
don't be cheap on the cooling system. buy a good $50 fan and paste for your cpu.
and buy a power supply around 1000w.
Total with discounts on newegg, I spend $800 with a 22" monitor..... I found my same computer on ebay for $900 without the monitor... already built. so you might check it out there, it might save you some headache having someone build it for you.
GL!
if you live in Portland, let me know I can build you a sweet computer for a small fee.
BSET - laptops will always cost more for less, so you can't really compare them. Never could, never will be able to. That's like comparing a Ferrari to a Monster Truck.
Personally, my time is too valuable to waste putting together, trouble shooting, etc., a new computer. That's me, though. I also put a lot of value on a warranty, can't tell you how much money/time it has saved to have a Dell technician show up and fix while I make some coffee.
You can't beat the pricing, so it is more about whether you like to take things apart and work on things or not.
For cost, it always comes down to "get the best you can afford". There will always be better, you will always need more space, a faster processor/more ram will always make things better.
Buy the best you can afford. In 4 years, you'll be happier with knowing you have something more current than saving a few hundred.
2 hours on a saturday, trace.
2 hours.
and you can do it while watching tv.
the warranty argument is valid, but the time one is definitely not.
The Mac vs PC thing will never die. but when it comes to designers there's some things to consider. computer programming, like if you were running Processing or something would be better in the Mac, same with any Adobe product, nearly every graphic designer i know uses a Mac.
Programs like Rhino and Grasshopper really require a PC. There is no Grasshopper option for the Mac, and probably wont be a stable version for several years, McNeal is too busy finishing up the Rhino 5 release. The Rhino version for mac is also not put together very well and will need several more service pack releases to become usable.
Maya is on the Mac as well, but I'm not sure how that performs, I've never used it.
I was trying to decide between a Mac and Pc for gradschool this fall. I really wanted to do a mac switch, but at the end of the day I'm a Rhino guy who uses Grasshopper all the time, so I would really be just booted in the PC version most of the time. I know, I know, Mac people say that Windows is more stable on a Mac anyway, but Windows 7 has been pretty impressive when it comes to stability and performance for me.
Basically you can get comparable pc hardware specs with a macbook, but its about half the price, allowing you to double up on things like memory, a better cpu and graphics card. although mac lovers will argue that Mac hardware is more efficent when you go with this argument.
I'm leaning towards a Lenovo, Acer or Samsung. Best bet is to wait til right before you need it if your heading to gradschool or something, as prices always go down or better specs arise. If the macbook pro design is a driving factor, some of the Ultra Book options from companies look pretty comparable and nice. Although there have been mixed reviews on some, I think in the next 4-6 months with the next generation of releases these issues will clear up.
heres a mac/pc debate from the people on the grasshopper forum:
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/forum/topics/don-t-buy-a-mac-because-there-s-no-grasshopper?xg_source=activity
computer programming, like if you were running Processing or something would be better in the Mac.
incorrect.
processing runs on java, you gain no advantage from being on a mac. if it has jdk, it will run. furthermore, java benchmark results generally show macs lagging behind pc's, especially if you go all-out intensive with data manipulation.
on top of that, being on a mac would actually set you back with most other languages since you'd have to wait for mac-specific libraries to become available, and these are generally less common than windows libraries.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.