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Translucent Models

iwish

Does anyone have experience with laminating acrylic? I have done this several times, laminating multiple sheets together to make a large chunk, and every time I do, I get hundreds of small cracks around the edges of the sheets. it makes the model look like crap. Any thoughts would be apperciated.

 
Jul 14, 04 8:53 pm
aKa

use resin

Jul 14, 04 9:20 pm  · 
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iwish

I have done that too. Actually, the model I just made uses both. I made the mass of the building out of plex, and then drilled through it for the vert circ. cores. I filled the holes with colored polyester resin. It looked great until the resin began to heat up and harden, then the acrylic got thousands of small cracks around the resin. Wonder why, or what I can do differently?

Jul 14, 04 10:01 pm  · 
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joe

this seems very interesting, although I guess I dont have anything constructive to add to the discussion. any advice of particular styles/brands/compounds of resin, and likewise the acrylic? iwish-are you using the acrylic that is readily availible at home improvement stores or something special order? I have been searching and trying to read up on this, but any additiona advice would be appreciated.
-joe

Jul 15, 04 12:38 am  · 
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Frit

What are you using to laminate the acrylic with? Solvent or glue? Might not matter much as I suspect the cracks you refer to were caused by the resin expanding slightly as it cured. When you say the cracking was at the edges, are you talking the edges of the hole you drilled or the edges of the entire piece? Got any pics?

Jul 15, 04 8:49 am  · 
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iwish

I use arcylic slabs and sheets. You can get it at the hardware store, but I by it from a plastics supply company. The place I go has a scrap bin, and they sell it for a few dollars a pound. It is the best way to go, unless you need a very specific size or color. There are several places on the web that sell plastics quite cheap. I use a polyester resin, as opposed to acrylic, because it doesn't melt and it is very easy to machine after it hardens. I get that from a place online.

I use solvent to laminate the sheets. It seems that the plastic cracks along the edges where the extra solvent runs out from the seam. I will try to post an image soon. Can someone point me towards a set of instructions for how to put images on here?
Thanks

Jul 15, 04 9:30 am  · 
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el jeffe

why don't you just machine the chuck-o-laminated acrylic so the crazed edges are removed?

Jul 15, 04 10:45 am  · 
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iwish

Thanks for the advice. I figured that heat was at least part of the problem. I will try it again in thinner layers and see what happens.

Jul 15, 04 7:20 pm  · 
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Josh Emig

Have you used methylene chloride? I don't know where you are, but if you are in or near NYC you can get it at Canal Plastics or Industrial Plastics on Canal Street. I'm sure you can find it online, also.

Otherwise, scrap the glue. I assume you are using a laser cutter. Cut aligned holes in each section, push through some all-thread and compress with nuts at both ends.

Jul 15, 04 8:50 pm  · 
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Josh Emig

Oh yeah, methylene chloride is really bad for you, as are many chemical adhesives and solvents. One more reason to go with mechanical fasteners.

Jul 15, 04 8:53 pm  · 
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iwish

Yeah, we used to use methylene choride for this stuff. Then someone passed out, and that was the end of that. We use IPS weld-on 4 now. You are right though, I didn't have this problem with the methylene. I think I will have to do 2 things to fix the cracks. First, I will oversize everything I laminate so I can trim out the craze at the edge, and second, I will have to be far more careful with the solvent.

Jul 16, 04 9:58 am  · 
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Zoë Coombes

The complete sculptor on Vandam st. (just behind Vinoly's sweatshop) is a really good place to shop for resins. 100xmore variety than canal plastics and they are just around the corner. The sell tons of toxic stuff and are really into using it safely. The will give you lots of sugestions regarding the material's best use (how to manage heat, if heating is a problem for example) and how to avoid the unfortunate fate which came to Eva Hesse who died, (i believe) of cancer after living in her resin filled studio for a few years. Try them for advice. and remember, its just a model..

Jul 16, 04 8:53 pm  · 
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Brim

If I remember correctly from my pre-arch pre-med days, methylene chloride is a carcinogen. Be careful. Wear face mask and eye protection.

Jul 17, 04 3:23 pm  · 
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iwish

Ok, I got a reply from the makers of the solvent I am using. They said to prevent the craze, I need to aneal the plastic before I glue it. Anyone know what that means? I think it means to heat it up, and cool it slowly.

Jul 19, 04 10:42 am  · 
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the righteous fist

don't they do that to iron? shove it in cold water after it's been heated? so the outside cools faster than the inside, freezes the size and makes the whole thing super hardcore.

Jul 19, 04 10:45 am  · 
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iwish

Is that it? I anealed some steel in 7th grade shop class, but I couldn't remember if I quenched it or cooled it slowly. I suppose I should not be so lazy and look it up.

Jul 19, 04 11:03 am  · 
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Frit

I'd never heard of Eva Hesse until I read that post above, then on KCRW yesterday there was a segment about her. She died of a brain tumor at the age of 34, presumably caused by her exposure to all the resin and stuff she worked with. They also had some current artists who work in resin talking about the precautions they take when handling with the stuff. Respirators, haz mat suits, appearantly it can really ruin your day.

Jul 19, 04 3:05 pm  · 
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Marc Pittsley

Here's a link to the program Frit is talking about:
WNYC's Studio 360

Jul 20, 04 9:55 am  · 
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