"most employers don't really care where you went to school"

short answer: that's not true

If you're comparing GSD grads vs. Rice grads, you're right
If you're comparing Cornell grads vs. Wentworth, you're wrong

ummmmmmm yeah, I'm not touching that one with a 10' stick.

Oops. I forgot that parallel has no sense of humor. Or am I just too retarded???

Parallel: Were you a critic at Roger Williams or Wentworth?

Cornell, Pratt, Syracuse, Rensselaer...anymore questions retard?

That DI 2005 list is somewhat out of date because some of those schools don't have BArch programs anymore (I know Cincinnati at least doesn't.) I'm not sure why, but DI doesn't really rank undergrad arch programs anymore. They now rank grad programs and the "most innovative" arch programs, and they don't specify whether that distinguishes between undergrad and grad.

The 2006 lists are available here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/archive/index.php/t-138055.html

archtopus

Cincy currently has a B.S. non-prof undergrad program

aren't schools doing away with b.arch programs in a lot of instances? I remember hearing that somewhere...

truth or fiction?

I'm well aware of that parallel. I have such a degree. : )

8888, NAAB or ACSA was going the route of telling all schools to eliminate BArchs but then stopped, ostensibly due to protest from schools.

cornell. cooper. risd

parallel38, where the fuck do you get off? first off none of the ivies you listed even offer an undergrad degree and second of all, where do you get this elitist bullshit that you know which schools to avoid? i can say with some degree of confidence that wentworth's program was once second-rate, but is now quite good and improving greatly. and if you should be able to stand on your feet if you're good whether you went to cornell or wentworth or sci-arc. so fuck off yourself

FLM

please read the posts before you crap in your diaper again

yes i second that to FLM, douche

and as for good arch programs, I recommend a small school in the city. Big schools (like many of the ivies mentioned above) tend to be too full of themselves and are more about their prestige rather then actual academics. Don't get me wrong, I know its hard to get into an ivy but its such a cliche to consider the bigger and more well known schools as the smarter and better schools. I would strongly suggest looking for a school that offers BARC with an application process after one or two years of attending. Applications after two years tend to weed out those people who aren't cut out for arch studies. Finally, look for a school that will go beyond academics and get you a job. Colleges that have co-op programs offer so much more to there students. Many of the bigger schools will cut you loose upon graduation and you are forced to find a job on your own.

If your looking for a good school that will educate you on the design process, teach how to actually build a structure that can stand up (unlike these big elitist schools that preach this conceptual, Frank Gehryish arbitraytecture BS.)

Finally, don't pay attention to these damn rankings, they are meaningless. All of the people ranking schools have an agenda and its no coinicdence that the big schools (ie schools with money) are at the top.

parrell38, where do you come off telling people to avoid Wentworth? Have you ever set foot in the school or talked to anyone about the program?

i did. nothing you said gives you the authority to say that unapologetically or explains how you seem to have the allegedly knowledge to make such a statement. you were once a critic at some of those schools? hmm. well by that logic, i once saw the miami heat play the boston celtics. the heat lost, therefore i conclude that they and a number of other teams are no good.

i should also note that a number of the faculty members here--many of whom are graduates of the gsd, mit, sci-arc et al--have commented on the quality and personability of the faculty as a whole here as opposed to larger (and in some cases more elitist, but not always) schools and the increasingly comparability of the program to some of the larger, better-known schools and the overall quality of the program.

so sorry to hijack your thread, js. if you want to be an ignorant, arrogant dick like parallel, take his/her advice. otherwise keep researching and good luck

whether cornell is on the list or not, you'd have to agree that cornell has a lot of reputation and perhaps one of the best networking out there for its alumni no?

and if you want to teach one day...the school you go to is probably very important. but that's probably more for grad school.

i would agree with that, sashimi, and think that's a reasonable and fair thing to say. i'm not saying wentworth is cornell, but it's not an MArch program either and while the school matters, your determination and talent matter much more than your school. you make your education. and wentworth--and i'm sure some of those others--is a fine school. i believe most places require an MArch to teach anyway, so undergrad is not as important there anyway. also, all schools are good for networking among alumni if that's a concern for you

Sorry if I sound preachy... but I think you should be more clear about what "BEST" means, jsbachsonata. If you really think about it, you'll probably find that it is not that simple. Best for your reputation or other people's perception of you? Best for your parents' wallets? Or best for your overall education? If it really is for your education, do not simply look at "rankings" or "reputation" and instead look at how the school fits your goals (which might be harder to decide than the school). Also, more than the school, it really depends on how you approach your education. I would rather go to the wrong school with the right frame of mind and willingness to learn, than go to the "right" school for all the wrong reasons. But thats just me.

Does anyone else see the problem with someone who claims to have critiqued at "Cornell, Pratt, Syracuse, Rensselaer" calling other people a "retard" or a baby? Publicly, and to complete strangers? To me, that doesn't really inspire much confidence in a school who would be willing to employ, in one way or another, such a person.

Honestly, can you imagine those crits? Let's try.

Student: "here is my project, i was hoping to convey a sense of..."
parallel38: "this project is crap"
S: "....uh, what? I'm sorry..."
p: "you should be sorry, it looks like somebody shit on your model"
S: "But.....but...." (crestfallen)
p: "you should really save your shits for your diaper, you retard"


Sorry, I have an overactive imagination.

FLM...based on your logic...you'll fit in perfectly at Wentworth.
get over it and move on.

jsbach....eventually you'll get enough responses...and more or less you'll find that Cornell, Cincy, Cooper, and RISD are on the top of everyone's list

WonderK

you do have an overactive imagination...and you probably haven't been to a critique lately...they're brutal. I'm only responding to some of the insipid posts on this site using the basic language I have found on this site.

haha! I love it, WonderK. I spotted that problem, but wasn't able to put it into such concrete words and imagery as you. Well done.

To the original poster: Philarch is spot on. This thread has obviously degenerated into spitefulness, because everyone wants to believe that the school THEY went to is the best, or one of the best. So getting a better sense of your own priorities (B.Arch vs.4+2, region, price range, etc.) will probably yield you a much more helpful response.

To everyone else: yes, you went to a WONDERFUL school. In fact (insert name of your school here) might just be the BEST damn architecture school around, and you just might be the best designer to ever graduate from it! Now put your dicks away, please.

rationalist, you shouldn't post while under the inlfuence

WonderK, can't wait until you get ripped apart at a critique

My, such vitriol. And here I thought architects were sophisiticated, cordial and mature.

ha. Take your own advice sometime, k? We've all been ripped to shreds in critiques. I was even called a facist once. But if you go and critique people the way your talking to us, you should be fucking fired. A critique is useless without a reason behind it, and you're just firing off shite without any explanation. Good critcs try to be contstructive.

parallel, how do you think you know my logic or what wentworth is like now? tell me how! i never said cornell wasn't one of the best schools out there, just that you're a self-righteous prick who has yet to make one intelligent argument here and you can't handle it now that everyone is calling you out on it. getting ripped apart at a crit is fine if it's intelligent and about the integrity of your design, not by saying shit like "retard" and "crap in your diaper." you're comments fucking idiotic and immature to boot. if you're so fucking good, say something constructive and meaningful and let's see some of your work.

and bach, the most important thing is to consider what type of program you want to enter. they vary widely in concentration and approach. oh and steer clear of any school with self-righteous faculty or you'll end up with a bunch of parallel38s

WonderK I just spewed coffee across my keyboard - at a cafe, in public!! - reading that imaginary dialogue. So so funny.

And rationalist, of course, is right on: jsbach, you've got some better ideas now as to what type of questions you should be asking of the schools you might apply to, rather than what is generically the "best".

And remember whatever school you go to youa re only going to get out of it what you put in. You can get an amazing education and do amazing work with a state school degree if you have that fire inside of you. The one thing a lesser-known school might not get you is as many contacts in the architecture world - but for all you know you might not want those contacts in the first place.

parallel38 has been a critic at some of the schools he listed above.

parallel 38 is also starting at the GSD this fall, according to the "accepted to grad schools..." thread.

where did you go to undergrad?

Also, to rebut parallel38 in his/her attempts to scare jsbach away from architecture school based on a fear that crits are "brutal":

In my experience, as a student, a visiting crit, and a professor, crits are only "brutal" when a student is trying to bullshit the critics with eyewash, earwash, and attitude. I have never seen a critique become brutal when a student made an honest effort both towards the work and towards trying to utilize the critique as another opportunity to learn, this time from visiting critics and a public forum of fellow students.

parallel38, others here have asked you to try to be constructive rather than calling us all "retards". Please try.

does paralell38 remind anyone of the message board trolls on IMDB? You the kind. Posters using the logic and language of a 9-year old, making absurd and baseless attacks on other posters that disagree with their distaste for ________ (insert latest Wes Anderson film in which the humor escapes said troll)

yikes, I can see alot of you have some "social difficulties" (especially liberty bell) (and seem to post before reading past posts)

jsbach, I'm not scaring you out of arch school, Cornell, Cooper, Cincy, RISD, check them out. that's it, end of thread

got your back, liberty bell...major assholery being displayed on this thread. i feel bad for poor jsbach. here he goes, just trying to ask a simple question, and he gets caught up in this.

jsbach, parallel38 is a good example of what you can expect from some "critics" in architecture school. insults, putdowns, personal comments, and little in the way of constructive criticism.

reviews are like gladiator fights to this kind of person. many professors are like this. just ignore them and their comments.

do unto others as thou wouldst have done unto thee.

welcome to reality

good god, parallel, are you seriously starting at GSD in the fall? You're exactly the kind of pompous asshole I'm so not looking foward to sharing a studio with.

LB, you are completely right - it's what you put into your work at school that counts.

"The best answer to anger is silence" --German Saying

cornell- its the best...

go to the cheapest place because you will be doing door and window details anyway.

Mark,

There are many schools that offer highly-regarded undergraduate programs in architecture; however, I would recommend you find a school that offers you other things as well. (College is a great time to explore things you've never before had an opportunity to try. Stay open to them and have fun! )

Some schools offer a summer course specifically designed for high school students. You might consider looking into one (soon) as it will help you to better understand the nature of an architecture program as well as clearly define your strengths and weaknesses. You might also visit the schools you are interested in during critiques, which, in my opinion, can be unnecessarily brutal.

Sounds like a drawing class would be beneficial. At the very least, your choice of schools would open up and you wouldn't be limited to only those programs that don't require a portfolio.

Congratulations on your high marks and best of luck to you. :-)

get over it samsonio, accepted + ap, so don't worry, we probably won't share a studio together

Mark

take myownpath's advice when it comes to summer courses. They're definately a plus.

parallel 38,

I supported one of your posts on another thread because I thought you were bringing valuable information to light. Unfortunately, I find the majority of your posts both rude and vacuous. I am certain you were never a critic at Rensselaer - RPI to anyone who knows anything about the school. I am doubtful you were ever a critic anywhere.

I am terribly sorry that misery has consumed you - you sound like you're in a lot of pain. That being said, kindly leave this thread alone, so the young man with questions about the enormous commitment of college can be answered thoughtfully and with all due respect.

Best wishes to you.

myownpath

what is your problem?
I was a critic at Rensselaer...at the Greene Building in your Gallery/Lecture Hall...so please don't question my integrity

misery hasn't cosumed me at all. I'm very happy nowadays, and occasionally like to pick away at people on archinect who deserve it

And you're right, this thread isn;t about me, its about helping this kid find the right path. I gave my opinion, was then attacked, and then hit back, that's all. Provide this high schooler with some more information instead of sniping at me

YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING! You keep referring to "jsbach" as if your comments are to serve his original question!

But keep in mind, if Parallel38 is only now entering the GSD, then she's working with a different definition of "critic" than what some of you are used to.

Parallel: Enjoy Boston / Cambridge -- It rocks! (So cute, and yet so high-strung!)

I wont speak too much for schools I didnt attend. I just graduated from Roger Williams, and though it really isnt as bad as people make it out to be, ( I really don’t see how its that much worse than Syracuse or RISD,), there are a lot of retards there. But then there are a lot of retards everywhere. From the places Ive visited, watched crits, talked to professors and whatnot, (GSD, Yale, Cornell, McGill, Colombia, Syracuse, Pratt, RISD) Cornell’s undergrad was definitely one I envied the most. But when you really sit down look at it, the differences werent as astounding as people would have you believe. Some places are more into computers, more into art, more into sustainability, more or less proscriptive with their agenda, but all the places, including RWU have weak professors and great professors, weak students and great students, and no matter where you go your going to be plowing your own way.

ps. Take an art class or just get some paint and do some art! It helps!

jsbach, i feel like a douche for helping to ruin your thread and i'm sorry for that. that having been said, i think there's some good advice in here between the extensive static (to which i have greatly contributed). i think taking a drawing course (or any art course even) and doing a summer program would be great. also research some of the schools. like oe said, there are many different focuses and strengths at different schools. don't choose a school simply for the cost or the reputation, though those are certainly still factors to consider. and meet with some students and faculty at the schools you're looking at. doing that really changed my opinions about some schools. and try to view some student and faculty work if you can. your education really is what you make of it, but those are all important considerations. again, sorry for going on such a tangeant there and i hope you have success in your search and eventual choice. where are you located anyway? any geographic constraints?

wow... thank you everyone for your responses. I'm so glad to find this community of architects that are extremely opinionated or "passionate" when it comes to architecture schools. I had no idea this thread would turn into *cough cough* a very interesting "discussion". I guess I touched on a subjet that's quite controversial. Well, anyways, thank you for all the advice so far!! I have read every single response and have been thinking and researching extensively about my future plans :)

Mark

cliteeks on this side of 38th pararel are velly velly hosh! wot is your conacep leetawd?

this calls for an anti-best school post

I want a best-school vs. yale blows thread

WashU is bad?! The graduate program has not been as strong as others, but the undergraduate program has been consistently strong. From personal experience ('97~'02) the graduates have done well in what ever pathes they have chosen to follow. The school as a whole is very receptive to transfers and cross-pollination (I myself never majored in architecture, but was permitted to take studios thru the junior yr sequence). The class sizes are relatively small (comparing to UVA, where I am now a graduate student). As others have mentioned, college is about discovering yourself as a person as well as setting yourself up for a career. The environment of WashU was great, I wouldn't change a thing; but do visit, as some things are changing over there. I do admissions interviews and it is amazing how competitive it is to get in, but it's great to see that the students know when to have fun too. It's also a school w/ vast resources, so the pricetag shouldn't dissuade you there.

That being said, the undergraduate program here at UVa has amazed me with the quality of work being done. While hand drawing and modelling is something the school takes pride in, the integrationg of digital media and computer based modelling (3d in comp and exporting via laser cutter, 3d printer) is taking off w/o losing itself in cyberspace. The program's attachement to the landscape architecture program (grad only) has given them another great resource that helps students think about their projects in greater context.

both schools offer BS in Arch and BA w/ a major in Arch in case you aren't fully commiting to doing architecture in college.

I don't know other programs as well, so i can't compare, but these are two very good schools in architecture that offer very different campus environments. While you will spend a lot of time in studio, (hopefully) much time is spent outside of the architecture school, and your choice of school will offer different opportunities

If geography is not an issue I would strongly encourage you to visit and consider these two programs. If you're ever at uva i'd be more than happy to chat.

good luck
-t