With all of the questions regarding schools and which one is better (Yale vs. Harvard, AA vs. Cooper, UIC vs. IIT, etc.) does the architecture school one attends really matter? It appears as though choosing a school is like choosing a pair of jeans: Guess vs. Lee. Does namebrand obsession apply to our educational system?
Of course the school makes the architect. Why else would anyone spend the $$$ to attend GSD, Yale, Penn, Columbia rather than just go to state? Don't you know you'll never become a corporate CEO, millionare playboy, president, "star-architect" without an ivy education.
Mommy and Daddy make the architect. They wish and pray for a little architect. And then nine months later the stork brings a little bundle of joy. Then 18 years or so later the baby decides to attend an architecture program which takes lots of time and work. And regardless of the school the baby chooses, the baby can become an architect. But it was the Mommy and Daddy that made that architect.
but, being naturally good, you could go to STATE U, be a big fish, get everyones attention, eat up all the fellowship money, be GA to the dean, and win all weird competitions that exclude ivys from entry, THEN, having done well in school, made a nice resume and some good contacts, work a few places in -ughh- ny for a couple of years and THEN get a quick 9 month post-prof from you ivy brand of choice, thereby only spending a grand total of $30,000 (less, of course, your grants). then you can take your career pick of CEO, playboy, senator, et al.
well, in a way the school does make the architect. the architectural curriculum from school to school isn't that uniform. and a school's faculty, its courses, its facilities, its visiting lecturers, its location...they all influence the students attending the school at a given time and in a lot of subtle ways, not just the style of their work.
i went to a private school for my undergrad. really didn't feel that it helped me in the job field. worked my ass off in the four years between undergrad and grad school worked for three firms - two of which were names. i had the choice of GSD or state school for my masters - $10,000 or $120,000. i think i made the right decision and went to a state school (maintained my state residency so i paid in-state). not to be a dick, but i have found that the only people who feel it is worth going to a named school are the people who are enrolled in that school.
I would say that the school does not necessarily make the architect but it DOES help in many ways, especially in the beginning of one's career (I fear I am going to get flamed in some way or the other).
1) Resources of the School - I went to a state school for undergrad and am currently at a well known ivy for grad. I noticed a huge advantage because of the amount of resources that are available. Not just in terms of software, rapid prototyping equipment, libraries, databases, research, potential publication, etc , but also in networking (within and outside of the school), and in the financial and career services department. Hell, I know I'll be in less debt this year because of the finacial aid department. When I got my scholarships, grants, etc notice this year I realized that they had applied me to several scholarships, in which I had gotten a few, without me personally having to apply for them. While its a little unnerving that I have no idea where my personal information has been released, it's great to know that they have been proactive on my part to find me money.
2) When you're engaged in an RFQ and RFP process, and you have two equally strong projects, you look at credentials. You see "well-known school" person and "where is this school?" person...who would you choose? I've seen this happen unfortunately in an RFQ bid in China.
3) Depending on how your strategically position yourself, coming from a well known instution can help to move you up a few rungs on the corporate ladder. Especially on what kinds of courses you take outside of architecture school. Unfortunately, most grad students take courses just in their school, but if you're going to a place like Harvard or Yale, taking a few business and management courses works wonders.
Anyhow, coming from a state school that most people wouldn't know of, I have friends that have also gone straight into their own design-build practice and done extraordinarilly well. So the school you come from determining your success is not something that is in stone. Most of it comes down to determination and drive. But a well-known school thrown in as background, marketed well, only helps further.
I suspect if a student is at least above average in intelligence and discovers that the direction his/her school is f-o-r-c-i-n-g is somehow not "valid", this student may force upon him/herself an extreme evaluation that would not be available or apparant to students at most other schools. This may disrupt one's quality of life and most often is not recommended. But, it can be this "invalid" direction provided by the school that can make a student, indirectly.
And I indirectly thank my undergraduate school.
>Image removed by the Decency Federalis<
luck, it's all luck. That, or having a ton of money. Look around you, there are plenty that are famous that suck, plenty that have huge firms that suck. This is true of any business, in any profession.
If we are talking about being talented, that's a different story. All depends on what you consider 'makes' to be.
May 19, 06 5:59 pm ·
·
I am opening a new school of architecture!
But first you have to pass my new Baroque Pregnancy test.
FLW had 2 years engineering at U of Wis then built post and beam barns with his uncle's barn contracting company.
Mies was an apprenticed mason under his father.
If Im not mistaken Corb sought out Perrault for his engineering prowess with cast in place concrete. Thats where he educated himself in the materials and methods to realize his plastic visions.
I completely disagree. The great ones with LUCK make it happen. All the other ones you never hear of because they didn't make it.
There is tons of talent in any creative profession, but only a few make it to the top. It's not because one was necessarily better, more talented or whatever, just one was in the right place at the right time. This is another thing I think schools really need to address. The chances of having a career pushing your talent and creative skills are similar to being a rock star or getting and IPO that gets bought by Microsoft. It's simply one in millions.
Perseverance, timing, etc., etc., are all crucial, but we can assume that there are tons of people that do things 'right'.
I am just tired of the 'make it happen' bs. That's good to keep people pushing forward, and indeed, it keeps me pushing forward, but that's just a part of the puzzle. Luck, I believe, is the most important piece - it's the keystone, more or less.
i try not to look at things in such black and white terms - public v. ivy, cheap v. way too expensive. i've been to both public and private schools. truth be told, the quality of my education was far superior at the public school, as were the connections and opportunities. i attribute this, however, to the fact that faculty there earned PhD s from prestigious schools. (the fact that it was substantially cheaper is just a bonus.)
find the school that is right for you (even consider what fits into your budget, lifestyle and personality) but don't compromise when it comes to faculty. apples will never fall far from the tree and you only have a few years to maximize on your educational experience.
after school, yes, it's all about you, the planets, ...
myownpath...
I totally agree. You must find the school that best fits you. Do not believe the hype!!! Everyone has a different working style, different goals, different things in which they tolerate or not. Know yourself first. Follow your personal goals not what the rest deem important.
Trust me this is from experience.
Bruce Goff never had an institution education but he did have a life education. He did go on to be the Dean of The School of Architecture at Oklahoma, where he guided a number of people into the field of Architecture including Fay Jones.
I have met some real zeros from both state shools and the glitter schools. So don´t worry, if your good you will survive even without a degree.
the school matters, but it doesn not 'make' anyone. What matters is finding a school that will push you as much as YOU can handle, that will nuture your interests and doesn't have anything happening there that will just flat-out ruin the experience for you.
Im interning at an office for the summer and I am working with a guy who goes to one of the top ten arch schools in the country. I asked to see his portfolio and was absolutley appauled. He is in fourth year and Im in second year and my level of work and knowledge are far more superior than his. It just goes to show you get what you put in to your education.
Im interning at an office for the summer and I am working with a guy who goes to one of the top ten arch schools in the country. I asked to see his portfolio and was absolutley appauled. He is in fourth year and Im in second year and my level of work and knowledge are far more superior than his. It just goes to show you get what you put in to your education.
kos - one thing to remember is that you both are working at the same place. so his weak portfolio was ofset by he fact that he is enrolled in a name school. chances are he is making more money that you as well, but probably needs to simply because his student loans will kill him. i went the state school route for my masters simple because of this reason. for $10,000 i got my masters in a year and a half - i probably had more in parking tickets than that during the same time frame in boston.
are you on glue? architecture schools are, if anything, the anti-cash cow. i went to northwestern for undergrad, which has fantastic art, art history and engineering faculties (and a history of distinguished faculties in those fields). so it would make sense to have an architecture school, non?
however, when i asked the question of my architectural theory professor during my tenure there, he put it to me simply: architects don't make any money, and therefore architecture schools, in general, tend to have very low endowments. because northwestern is run like a business (northwestern pioneered this shitty, shitty model where the student is the "consumer" and the school provides a "product for consumption") htey don't have an architecture school because it is not fiscally sane, it does not give any returns on the investment.
Actually JH...that is not true....our boss hired us based on our experience. Luckily I got two years of construction under my belt. As far as him making more money......more experience means higher pay. Plus this discusssion is about the hype of schools not money.
Actually JH...that is not true....our boss hired us based on our experience. Luckily I got two years of construction under my belt. As far as him making more money......more experience means higher pay. Plus this discusssion is about the hype of schools not money.
i work with a bunch of ivys that seem no different than anyone else. asking a random person, there's no way of telling whether they're going to say 'columbia' or 'florida'
princeton people you can tell because they are all pale with short dark hair and small dark-rimmed glasses
May 25, 06 2:10 pm ·
·
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Does the School Make the Architect?
With all of the questions regarding schools and which one is better (Yale vs. Harvard, AA vs. Cooper, UIC vs. IIT, etc.) does the architecture school one attends really matter? It appears as though choosing a school is like choosing a pair of jeans: Guess vs. Lee. Does namebrand obsession apply to our educational system?
NO
architecrture school is over-rated
NO
architecture school is over-rated
NO
architecture school is over-rated
you make your own education.
it's all on you apple.
first: I love your mom; she's supreme
second: school, like other social connections, is important. you can get by without them, but it's a long cold road.
don't despair about having or not having connections - in the end, talent and work prevail [hype and mediocrity only lasts so long - see de Me_il].
Of course the school makes the architect. Why else would anyone spend the $$$ to attend GSD, Yale, Penn, Columbia rather than just go to state? Don't you know you'll never become a corporate CEO, millionare playboy, president, "star-architect" without an ivy education.
Mommy and Daddy make the architect. They wish and pray for a little architect. And then nine months later the stork brings a little bundle of joy. Then 18 years or so later the baby decides to attend an architecture program which takes lots of time and work. And regardless of the school the baby chooses, the baby can become an architect. But it was the Mommy and Daddy that made that architect.
but, being naturally good, you could go to STATE U, be a big fish, get everyones attention, eat up all the fellowship money, be GA to the dean, and win all weird competitions that exclude ivys from entry, THEN, having done well in school, made a nice resume and some good contacts, work a few places in -ughh- ny for a couple of years and THEN get a quick 9 month post-prof from you ivy brand of choice, thereby only spending a grand total of $30,000 (less, of course, your grants). then you can take your career pick of CEO, playboy, senator, et al.
let the wisdom reign!
Mommy and Daddy make the naturally-good-ness.
well, in a way the school does make the architect. the architectural curriculum from school to school isn't that uniform. and a school's faculty, its courses, its facilities, its visiting lecturers, its location...they all influence the students attending the school at a given time and in a lot of subtle ways, not just the style of their work.
listen to 5, s/he's got it all figgered out
i went to a private school for my undergrad. really didn't feel that it helped me in the job field. worked my ass off in the four years between undergrad and grad school worked for three firms - two of which were names. i had the choice of GSD or state school for my masters - $10,000 or $120,000. i think i made the right decision and went to a state school (maintained my state residency so i paid in-state). not to be a dick, but i have found that the only people who feel it is worth going to a named school are the people who are enrolled in that school.
The school may influence the architect, but it does not make him. Experience, talent, passion (and proper connections? LOL) make an architect.
I would say that the school does not necessarily make the architect but it DOES help in many ways, especially in the beginning of one's career (I fear I am going to get flamed in some way or the other).
1) Resources of the School - I went to a state school for undergrad and am currently at a well known ivy for grad. I noticed a huge advantage because of the amount of resources that are available. Not just in terms of software, rapid prototyping equipment, libraries, databases, research, potential publication, etc , but also in networking (within and outside of the school), and in the financial and career services department. Hell, I know I'll be in less debt this year because of the finacial aid department. When I got my scholarships, grants, etc notice this year I realized that they had applied me to several scholarships, in which I had gotten a few, without me personally having to apply for them. While its a little unnerving that I have no idea where my personal information has been released, it's great to know that they have been proactive on my part to find me money.
2) When you're engaged in an RFQ and RFP process, and you have two equally strong projects, you look at credentials. You see "well-known school" person and "where is this school?" person...who would you choose? I've seen this happen unfortunately in an RFQ bid in China.
3) Depending on how your strategically position yourself, coming from a well known instution can help to move you up a few rungs on the corporate ladder. Especially on what kinds of courses you take outside of architecture school. Unfortunately, most grad students take courses just in their school, but if you're going to a place like Harvard or Yale, taking a few business and management courses works wonders.
Anyhow, coming from a state school that most people wouldn't know of, I have friends that have also gone straight into their own design-build practice and done extraordinarilly well. So the school you come from determining your success is not something that is in stone. Most of it comes down to determination and drive. But a well-known school thrown in as background, marketed well, only helps further.
I suspect if a student is at least above average in intelligence and discovers that the direction his/her school is f-o-r-c-i-n-g is somehow not "valid", this student may force upon him/herself an extreme evaluation that would not be available or apparant to students at most other schools. This may disrupt one's quality of life and most often is not recommended. But, it can be this "invalid" direction provided by the school that can make a student, indirectly.
And I indirectly thank my undergraduate school.
>Image removed by the Decency Federalis<
luck, it's all luck. That, or having a ton of money. Look around you, there are plenty that are famous that suck, plenty that have huge firms that suck. This is true of any business, in any profession.
If we are talking about being talented, that's a different story. All depends on what you consider 'makes' to be.
I am opening a new school of architecture!
But first you have to pass my new Baroque Pregnancy test.
Is it better to be the first of the class at a state university or to be the last of the class at a Ivy League?
I think a few starchitects never had any formal education (only Ando comes to mind atm)
FLW had 2 years engineering at U of Wis then built post and beam barns with his uncle's barn contracting company.
Mies was an apprenticed mason under his father.
If Im not mistaken Corb sought out Perrault for his engineering prowess with cast in place concrete. Thats where he educated himself in the materials and methods to realize his plastic visions.
The great ones simply "make it happen".
I completely disagree. The great ones with LUCK make it happen. All the other ones you never hear of because they didn't make it.
There is tons of talent in any creative profession, but only a few make it to the top. It's not because one was necessarily better, more talented or whatever, just one was in the right place at the right time. This is another thing I think schools really need to address. The chances of having a career pushing your talent and creative skills are similar to being a rock star or getting and IPO that gets bought by Microsoft. It's simply one in millions.
Perseverance, timing, etc., etc., are all crucial, but we can assume that there are tons of people that do things 'right'.
I am just tired of the 'make it happen' bs. That's good to keep people pushing forward, and indeed, it keeps me pushing forward, but that's just a part of the puzzle. Luck, I believe, is the most important piece - it's the keystone, more or less.
I think all the great architects are Masons.
all i know is that the architecture programs are cash-cows for the school...thats all i have to contribute
i try not to look at things in such black and white terms - public v. ivy, cheap v. way too expensive. i've been to both public and private schools. truth be told, the quality of my education was far superior at the public school, as were the connections and opportunities. i attribute this, however, to the fact that faculty there earned PhD s from prestigious schools. (the fact that it was substantially cheaper is just a bonus.)
find the school that is right for you (even consider what fits into your budget, lifestyle and personality) but don't compromise when it comes to faculty. apples will never fall far from the tree and you only have a few years to maximize on your educational experience.
after school, yes, it's all about you, the planets, ...
school sketches the architect on paper and real world crumbles it and recyles the paper for something else.
myownpath...
I totally agree. You must find the school that best fits you. Do not believe the hype!!! Everyone has a different working style, different goals, different things in which they tolerate or not. Know yourself first. Follow your personal goals not what the rest deem important.
Trust me this is from experience.
Luck is the intersection of oppurtunity and preparedness
yup, that's true, too. Luck doesn't mean anything without being prepared.
Bruce Goff never had an institution education but he did have a life education. He did go on to be the Dean of The School of Architecture at Oklahoma, where he guided a number of people into the field of Architecture including Fay Jones.
I have met some real zeros from both state shools and the glitter schools. So don´t worry, if your good you will survive even without a degree.
Does anyone have recommendations on good books about color, ie., color psychology, studies, et c.?
the school matters, but it doesn not 'make' anyone. What matters is finding a school that will push you as much as YOU can handle, that will nuture your interests and doesn't have anything happening there that will just flat-out ruin the experience for you.
of course the school doesn't 'make' the architect, what are you all fucking tards?
tektrix- the book by josef albers, if you haven't already found that one.
here it is: interaction of color
there's another one by fellow bauhaus-er johannes itten, too.
Im interning at an office for the summer and I am working with a guy who goes to one of the top ten arch schools in the country. I asked to see his portfolio and was absolutley appauled. He is in fourth year and Im in second year and my level of work and knowledge are far more superior than his. It just goes to show you get what you put in to your education.
Im interning at an office for the summer and I am working with a guy who goes to one of the top ten arch schools in the country. I asked to see his portfolio and was absolutley appauled. He is in fourth year and Im in second year and my level of work and knowledge are far more superior than his. It just goes to show you get what you put in to your education.
kos - one thing to remember is that you both are working at the same place. so his weak portfolio was ofset by he fact that he is enrolled in a name school. chances are he is making more money that you as well, but probably needs to simply because his student loans will kill him. i went the state school route for my masters simple because of this reason. for $10,000 i got my masters in a year and a half - i probably had more in parking tickets than that during the same time frame in boston.
ret-
are you on glue? architecture schools are, if anything, the anti-cash cow. i went to northwestern for undergrad, which has fantastic art, art history and engineering faculties (and a history of distinguished faculties in those fields). so it would make sense to have an architecture school, non?
however, when i asked the question of my architectural theory professor during my tenure there, he put it to me simply: architects don't make any money, and therefore architecture schools, in general, tend to have very low endowments. because northwestern is run like a business (northwestern pioneered this shitty, shitty model where the student is the "consumer" and the school provides a "product for consumption") htey don't have an architecture school because it is not fiscally sane, it does not give any returns on the investment.
so there ya go.
Actually JH...that is not true....our boss hired us based on our experience. Luckily I got two years of construction under my belt. As far as him making more money......more experience means higher pay. Plus this discusssion is about the hype of schools not money.
Actually JH...that is not true....our boss hired us based on our experience. Luckily I got two years of construction under my belt. As far as him making more money......more experience means higher pay. Plus this discusssion is about the hype of schools not money.
i work with a bunch of ivys that seem no different than anyone else. asking a random person, there's no way of telling whether they're going to say 'columbia' or 'florida'
princeton people you can tell because they are all pale with short dark hair and small dark-rimmed glasses
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