Non Sequitur, people like you should probably just become a drafter. Not every architect thinks as you do. I think architects, not all, but if you give yourself the credit, can be on par with other professionals. As a lawschool drop-out, i can say that manu law grads from Toronto doesnt earn as much as you may imagine. However, whatever you entitle yourself to- that is your own. Unless one goes to Harvard law school they dont earn over 100k. Maybe you went to ryhigh? Thats why you think uou deserve real salary. Anyhow, i feel sympathy for your low self reflection as a drafter with designer glasses.
Folie^2, no need to feel sorry for me. Salaries are relative to billable skill; not ambition, delusions of self-worth or sparkly studio design skills. 60K is on the low end for a licensed architect in Ontario but it's pretty high for a simple M.arch with under 5y of real experience. Not sure how you're justifying the rest of your personal attack.
Non sequitur, perhaps you shouldnt be so sarcastic yourself. If you feel you have been verbally attacked, you should read your own comments. You have totally misinderstood my point of raising voice about general discontent with architects or intern architects salary irregarding whatever your pointing out about skills and experiences. Also, what is billanle skill? Delusional? Maybe you say this bc i point out to my starchitecture firm experiences? I get it, you consider yourself a drafter with designer glasses- however, have some respect for others who has as you so call it ambitions. I need not to justify but clarify for abusive commentor.
Folie^2, for the record I am licensed by the OAA and commend a salary well beyond the average aka I am no drafter. If you want higher compensation, you need to earn it by adding something to clients and that something has to have monetary value to the office. Where do you think the money for your salary comes from?
Inexperienced interns are not worth 60k Per year. Hundreds of these chumps graduate every semester anyways. Your starchitecture points don't matter much. Oooh, one term coop in Europe! Hurray! Not impressive. Come back when you can run multimillion dollar projects on your own, then you can start talking about real compensation.
Id like to Say this is going ti be the last reply. You misunderstand me the entire time and is taking things too personally. I dont much care or want to know who you are. I wondered about getting degrees and degres and dropping out of law school. After this summer, im leaving architecture hoing back for a law degree in one of those law schools mentioned above. You degraded our own profession by calling an anyonymous intern architect speaking about the problem of our industry with low compensation. What is your problem? I am only saying everyone deserves more, architects or interns, as we go through long process of exams and billing hours I find it imcompatible. If you belive otherwise, then at least dont mock others. You are probably much older than me and really, the tolerance level is way too low. And Wouldnt you be happier if you were more appreciated (so in fact you wouldnt be playing cyber comment warrior) ive worked three years and decided its time to move on- not a coop term man but two years in Europe which you guessed and mocked. I dont really care about you, for all I care, you deserve and can have your under 100k salary.
mouse trap = non sequitur, who makes fun of coop but never had the chance to do coop abroad and joined their school for no coop. I get it now, you hate waterloo ppl.
FYI this thread is 6 years old now. Stop fighting!
Just an update as the OP - I'm licensed with OAA now and my base salary is now $84k, $93k on T4 after bonuses and benefits (<10hrs of overtime last year). I want to quit tho because I'm interested in doing simpler projects like condos but I'll probably have to take a pay cut lol
Apr 3, 19 9:32 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
This is a great thread despite the tangent in the last few posts. Not many discussions here on Canadian salaries and I find that the american market skews expectations. From what I gather from this discussion's history, you're max 2 years above me carreer-wise and my experience seems to align well with yours as you describe it. I suspect my 2019 T4 will move me into a new tax bracket.
Apr 3, 19 9:52 am ·
·
curtkram
condos aren't simple
Apr 3, 19 10:04 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
+1 Curt
Apr 3, 19 10:12 am ·
·
gentle puppies
How much do you make? I'm so out of the loop on market rates these days. My current projects are $50-$60million civic and STEM projects so condos are comparatively simpler lol, also it's more aligned with my interests
Apr 3, 19 1:01 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
I'm only semi-anonymous so I won't divulge exact numbers, but hourly wage is squarely in the mid $30s/hr (I get OT pay above 37hr) but I am in active negotiation with the office brass for official PM promotion by summer's end. By that point, my compensation should near, if not exactly, what you list above. (85k+bonus).
Project sizes range from multi-story office buildings and commercial/retail development with a few academic, institutional, or industrial projects sprinkles. No residential.
Apr 3, 19 1:18 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
^clarification, I'm on salary for first 1950hrs of the year. Anything above that is at the hourly wage. I've been averaging 10% OT for the last few years but it was close to 30% 5/6 years ago.
That's above the average for Canada. Remember, we don't need to pay for silly things like health insurance or 6-figure tuition loans here.
Apr 3, 19 1:19 pm ·
·
atelier nobody
I am in Los Angeles and I would have been happy with that much (adjusted for inflation) at 10 years' experience. I don't make a whole lot more than that now, with over 20 years in.
I have no idea if Canada is the same as the US in this regard, but down here I would advise staying away from condos unless you have a taste for litigation and lots of insurance.
Apr 3, 19 1:14 pm ·
·
Rusty!
Architects should be allowed to create single use LLCs just like developers do. "Oh, the condo is crumbling, but LLC that built it is looooong gone. But the Architect is still in business! Let's sue them!"
Update, a small bump to $86k but it won't kick in till fall because Covid. Firm leadership is taking at 15% cut, 4% of staff laid off.
I wonder if firms sometimes pay according to perceived need, and I, a single gay guy with the slickest condo backdrop in every video conference, is less likely to switch firms over money lol.
I just entered my info on glassdoor and it's saying I'm below average now (8 years post-MArch, 2 years post-licensure). Does that sound right? A recruiter friend of a friend seemed surprised that I was making my salary with no managerial or technical responsibilities and primarily doing fun design studies.
I was planning on leaving anyway for a condo firm and figured I wouldn't get much of an increase with that project type - or can I? It's supposedly a bad time to switch jobs, but the recruiter was telling me that firms are hiring again and offered me an opportunity a few days ago.
recruiters get paid when you switch jobs so they sell hard - be mindful of that. but if something good comes up take it. leaving a firm when times are tough is a very sensible thing to do, and is the advantage of being a non-partner employee.
May 12, 20 12:44 am ·
·
joseffischer
No managerial or technical requirements? yeah, $86k sounds nice in that regard... are you in charge of production sets and/or full concept to DD sets with the client? Are you on autopilot and do a lot of direct client interaction? If not I'm really surprised on your number.
May 12, 20 9:06 am ·
·
tduds
What city are you in? That seems high for some areas, but typical for - say- NYC or Cali.
May 12, 20 11:29 am ·
·
midlander
early in the post OP mentioned Toronto, so at exchange rates that's 61,000 USD which seems fairly middling for 8 years experience in a major market. But also ok for a position that seems to be comfortable and without much risk.
May 12, 20 11:38 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
85k CAD is above market for 10-12y without management duties, even for toronto.
May 12, 20 11:43 am ·
·
tduds
Ah, CAD to USD makes more sense. I'd say that's average, maybe slightly below, depending on what they mean by "management duties"
Non Sequirter, you a beta bitch. Sounds like you're lolly gagging on some Canadian bacon back there. Youre embarrassing you children and your dead relatives
So many people saying SOM SF offers 45k for newly GSD Grads. I know people who have started working there in the last 5 years starting at 55-60k with only a B. Arch so those numbers are outdated.
May 14, 20 12:54 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
well, this thread is 8y old... and typically, only the disgruntled folks come here to complain about low wages.
Ahh that makes sense. Archinect poste
d this thread on their Instagram story today. That's how I ended up here
May 14, 20 1:12 pm ·
·
flatroof
60k is still awful for SF. Even 70k. 70K in SF is the same as making 35k in Dallas or Houston. And since grads make more than that in those places, you're making and saving MORE money than in the expensive cities.
May 14, 20 1:26 pm ·
·
joseffischer
Wow... I for one find threads like these highly valuable and reasons for coming to archinect, but maybe a new thread should be made as this one no longer receives enough action to provide good data points
Thanks, that's a very helpful link and I've used it before. Of course, it is a struggle trying to use that information in a vacuum. In Atlanta for instance, for project managers, people have posted as low as mid-40k and as high as 125k... with a range like that, clearly project management and the roles/responsibilities that entails varies a ton.
I wouldn't personally offer $60 K if you were fresh out of school, but if you had several years work experience and were a valuable member of their office...and worked their before I don't think $60 is out of line. They know you, you are clearly someone they like having around and understand your skin set. The biggest concern with any new hire is that you interview well talk the talk but can't walk the walk!. there hopefully would be little "training" required as you know their systems and protocols which just gives you a jump start on any other new hire.... they would save the extra $5-10K in a few months because you would be more productive.
Maybe it's different in Canada, but in the US is it really common for employers to pay M.Arch I grads more than B.Arch grads? I would assume they get the same starting pay since both degrees are considered a 1st professional degree. Consequently, B.S. Arch (or "B.S. Architectural Studies or what have you) would be paid less than a B.Arch considering the B.Arch can actually qualify for licensure, whereas the 4-year degree cannot.
May 15, 20 2:48 pm ·
·
thisisnotmyname
In many cases, our MArch applicants have work experience between grad and undergrad that we are willing to pay a little more for. With that experience comes a little more age and maturity, which we are also willing to pay a little extra for. Coincidentally, the last two 22 year old 4 and 5 year program grads we had turned out to be real shitshows when it came to
responsibility and maturity.
I've been working as a designer/architectural tech just outside of Toronto at a small company for the past three years. I came back from the US with a BSArch and took this job to save up for M.Arch. I stated at 40k and now 45k.
Considering how much cheaper it is living outside the city I would hope that as a Graduate Architect in Toronto would be able to earn more than 45k....otherwise I might as well skip the M.Arch and just stick with this job lol jk.
I think most of the people saying to work on your skills, and take contracts and freelance work makes sense. By the time I graduate with M.Arch I will have more to show in my professional works. Hopefully this will help in salary negotiations. If you have the experience and the skills don't take that low pay. Especially if it's not hourly and no overtime pay. They will end up earning free money off all the extra hours you put in.
Also, Toronto can be very competitive, especially for people just coming into the field. You may want to try working outside of the city for a year where there is more demand, and then come back to the city with more experience.
Of course if you know someone already working at a firm that can recommend you, that helps to! Oh and don't forget that the Canadian $$ is crap :(
45k is probably the right spot for design/ tech in the 3-5y range. You’d get more, pre c19 shut downs, in other places with less competition tho. When you have a March, you could be in the 50-55 range if you can demonstrate that you need less hand holding and have the maturity to run projects. An office that seems you as someone who can eventually interact with clients and run projects will allow you to move up. An office that sees you only as part of the production staff will have a cap on your compensation potential.
to answer joseffischer's question, the $86k is basically for fun design studies at the moment. I'm not in charge of anything and have no one under me other than the interns that we all share. I was never a project architect, but did do about 50% of all the hours billed to a $40M higher ed project working from concept to CD to contract admin, though there was always someone senior than me at every step to help. I never detailed an envelope. The only thing they really trust me with is design lol
How can you design the building without never detailing a building envelope?
May 20, 20 11:17 am ·
·
gentle puppies
Even though I was the only person full time on the project start to finish, there was a project architect for QAQC and a "detail guru" who drew the envelope details based on the design I and the design director came up with. It was a design-build so the builder took those details as suggestions lol. Then for CA there was the project manager who joined me every other site meeting to help with any issue above my pay grade =)
I did that for the my first eight years or so in this profession. Be aware that it leaves you with a HUGE hole in your skill set that makes you harder to market during a recession (aka keep or get a job). You really do need to know how to detail a building, coordinate drawings, and run CA on a project.
It’s quite a big hole too. I worked before as the designer then lead designer for concept to DD, and while it was a sweet deal at the time, you start realizing that all you are is the principal’s sketchpad. Unless you’re also sharing in the profits (ie. firm partner), it’s worth no more than a couple years. If the projects are interesting, I would totally get my hands on a couple of details your gurus draw and look them over after hours. Research and redraw what they did and see how your design changes can impact their details. It’s the only way to upskill and add value/compensation.
Re this, Chad: "You really do need to know how to detail a building, coordinate drawings, and run CA on a project." This is 100% true and 100% why I am totally miserable in my current main project at my job. I hate doing this shit. If I'm not the one who decided, for reasons, to make the stairs stained concrete with glass rails then I can't find it in myself to give a damn whether or not they are. There's no pleasure in telling a contractor to do it a certain way if I don't care why it is that way in the first place. I *suck* at project management and hate every moment of it. Some people love it; I've learned in the last 18 months that I don't. Give me a residential kitchen remodel where I understand and guide the reasons behind every decision and I'm happy as a pig in shit!
Puppies, it looks like you are functioning as the "Director of Design" for your firm. It's a role that exists at a subset of firm who choose to organize their operation in a certain manner. I've worked for several who didn't know jack about envelopes and detailing. Similar to your experience, other people in such firms have the task of making the design work technically and getting it built correctly. I know some people who have made careers being design directors at a series of firms.
I miss being a 'design director' of sorts. I really enjoy the design but I also like to figure out the details for things. Really for me if I wasn't the designer I have a hard time 'caring' about the detailing and CA for a project. My main issue is my current firm one of the parterres is the 'Director of Architecture' and this person tries to do all the design work but in reality I keep doing most of it since I'm 'fixing' things (massing, materials, colors, layout, proportions) not to mention the detailing that is required to make things work.
May 27, 20 12:13 pm ·
·
thisisnotmyname
I have found that the presence of a design director can be a rich source of frustration for other staff in the office. The position can easily be abused.
This has been an interesting thread! We are looking at moving to Toronto from the UK.
I currently hold an Interior degree and was looking at moving into that position in CA and then consider MArch.
I am now doing the full 7 years in the UK to qualify (and save!) to enable us to move out there.
Given, at that point, I'll have 11 years experience in an Architectural role with a BA, BArch and MArch + PGDip, would I be on a low pay relative to experience? My pay at that point in my current position will be in the region of £35k GBP which is high for the region I live.
I am guessing, it may be a push for $60k CAD?
I know given the timeframe involved numbers will go up or down, but as a ballpark as it was last year say.
May 24, 20 8:27 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Your question makes little sense. So you have a Int des degree but are now starting a whole new arch undergrad and hope for M.arch? Can't you just jump right into a M.arch? Regardless, 60k canadian is high if you don't have any relevant canadian experience to offer. At that pay rate, you will be expected to know enough of our building codes and construction practices or else any office will loose money as it trains you.
May 24, 20 4:13 pm ·
·
Jaetten
Sorry, it was a badly written post!
May 25, 20 4:23 am ·
·
Jaetten
It is no longer possible to sit the external exam with an Int Des or Int Arch BA and then progress to the MArch/Part 2.After discussion with the ARB, the only option is to start again. That isn't an issue as my current course is office based, which still allows for career progression and a good salary.
May 25, 20 4:45 am ·
·
Jaetten
I presume the $45-50k junior salary I have been seeing would be applicable in my case then. With both me and my partner on a similar wage, lets say a combined annual salary of $100k, it wouldn't be un-affordable!
May 25, 20 4:52 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Depending on the city, that could be manageable but it’s hard to say where numbers will be that far into the future. What you should concern yourself with is the Canadian license and IDP process. A UK license does not count for much here unless you have a decade of licensed arch experience.
May 25, 20 5:54 am ·
·
Jaetten
Thank you. It may make more sense for me to maybe drop out of my RIBA Part 1 and do M.Arch using my BA Interior Arch for entry requirements in Canada if that is a possibility? Need to look into it more and see if it's possible.
May 27, 20 10:45 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
read through https://cacb.ca/ for accredited programs. The requirements are the same in all canadian provinces so if you complete a M.Arch on the CACB's list, then you can start the intern arch process.
May 27, 20 10:56 am ·
·
Jaetten
Thank you, I'm reading through, along with admission requirements from various universities.
May 27, 20 11:21 am ·
·
Jaetten
What's your thoughts on Carlton?
May 27, 20 11:52 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
I have a Carleton undergrad degree and know plenty with M.Arch from there. I'm also on first-name basis with most of their faculty although I'll admit that I don't see them very often these days. What do you want to know?
I just did a quick search for real estate in Ottawa. I guess you can still buy a run down condo for under quarter million. Still can't afford it at 60k, but if you bust your ass for a decade, a run down condo could be all yours!
Or you could make $90K in NYC, bust your ass for ten years and still only rent a small apartment.
May 27, 20 5:49 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
You can’t really get much for under 400k but cost of housing is high everywhere. Still, economy here is good enough to make this achievable in general. I’m sure my and my wife’s joint yearly income is far less than yours in NY, yet we don’t have a problem.
Our new home was under $350K project cost. We don't have an issue.
May 27, 20 6:03 pm ·
·
Rusty!
Chad, salary ceiling is significantly higher than 90k in nyc. But not to fluff feathers here on which place is best, I am kinda seeing a trend where a lot of cities are going through same stuff nyc went through like 10-15 years ago. Through the roof expenses with salaries not quite keeping up. Whatever your thoughts are on nyc prices and salaries, this will be your reality in a decade. We don't just sneak preview novel diseases.
May 27, 20 6:16 pm ·
·
archi_dude
If I could only convince my fiance about van life. Some drafting here and there while exploring the world sounds way better than a lifetime of busting your ass anywhere to barely afford some airspace in a 1950's mid rise with a giant HOA.
I'm never said or thought that $90K was the pay cap in NYC. I was responding to your comment about stating pay in NYC being higher that $60K. Just as you've said - pay isn't keeping up with expenses regardless if you live in NYC. The rest of your comment just reads like a paranoid hipster trying meth for the first time.
May 27, 20 6:35 pm ·
·
Rusty!
A person named Chad, trying really hard to be edgy at all times. Who would've thunk it.
Thanks Non, thoughts on their teaching methods, student interactions with each other and are they more technical or conceptual? On the salary, 60k would just be my salary, not taking into account my wife's, which in her field I have seen 58k to in excess of 100k
Jun 1, 20 11:51 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Jaetten, leaving the $ numbers aside, Carleton once had a strong conceptual undergrad program. Back then, it was well respected as a feeder school more than a place for graduate studies. this was 15y ago... today, the undergrad is a thin shell but the grad program is much better and some memories of the high-conceptual past are still alive with some faculty. Classrooms are small and you get loads of one on one time with professors. Your time will be equally spent on prof prac coursework (which are weak at CU) and design studio/thesis. Some technical stuff but this will vary on who is doing the teaching. You get to choose your own adventure (somewhat) and direct your research however you want. I'm pretty sure my name is still written on the u/s of the 3-storey atrium ceiling in the arch building.
I just got an offer for 90k at a smaller firm (roughly 50 staff). That was the number I proposed, and they said yes immediately haha. I thought I must have left a bit on the table, but was planning to take the offer anyway, until my boss at a previous firm in Vancouver whom I keep in touch with, countered with 100k at his 10-person firm.
I thought I was well-paid given little management/detailing experience, but I'm starting to think that I have really outdated expectations of the job market...?
Also, would it be super rude to ask the first firm to up it to 95 to make me feel better about choosing them?
Aren't you the person who was moonlighting a multi family residential project without your firms knowledge and thus couldn't ask them for help with basic code issues regarding a stairway? If I recall you came here for help with these issues but didn't seem to grasp the advice given when people told you that your design wouldn't meet building code.
Yeah that is you. I believe the conscientious of other Canadian architects was that you're overpaid for your abilities. Keep this in mind when trying to ask for more money. While a 50 person firm is on the large side it's not so big that discrepancies between your actual experience and what you promote yourself to be won't be seen quickly.
Aug 7, 20 10:22 am ·
·
gentle puppies
I told them explicitly that I have little management or detailing experience (in case they got a different impression), and they were still enthusiastic about hiring me...?
I don't think the code discussion was fair given that no one seemed to get my repeated emphasis that it was a theoretical project attempting to meet the intent of the code rather than the letter of it.
It's good that you're honest with your possible employers. I'm not buying that it was only a theoretical project. Regardless you seemed to miss the fact that not only where you not meeting the intent of the code you failed to understand that when dealing with egress situations like that the letter of the code is what is to be followed. Again - these are things that someone with half your amount of experience would know.
Aug 7, 20 12:46 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
How you can make 6 figure salary with so little real construction knowledge is beyond me. Good for you tho, but this is an exception.
Aug 7, 20 3:46 pm ·
·
gentle puppies
I wondered that before, but then again look at the expertise required to be a teacher or cop in Toronto making 85-110k lol
Aug 7, 20 3:59 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
^cops are useful to everyone and serve many purposes plus the whole danger that comes with the job. No one needs architects.
Aug 7, 20 4:04 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
I wonder what the % difference in cost of living is between Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc.
Aug 7, 20 4:09 pm ·
·
citizen
He was attempting to meet the intent of the code rather than the letter of iiiiiiiiiiiit.....
So I told my design director friday morning that I was leaving, hoping to learn what they were willing to offer me to stay. No number would make me stay, but I was hoping to leverage that info for negotiating the new firm. Except he was distraught and I had to re-assure him that it about following my passion, nothing to do with money/advancement, that I initially expected a pay-cut in making this change, etc, so the convo never went there.
I mentioned the 100k offer to the new firm, asking them to meet me halfway at 95. HR couldn't reach the partners so late on a friday afternoon, so it was a bit of a nervous weekend - I know they won't rescind the offer, but if they said no to any increase, I was going to take that as a sign that it wasn't meant to be. They're always supposed to bend a little, right - like I'd be a sucker to take the first number we agreed on, right? Anyway we landed on 94. It's perfect, cuz if they agreed to 95, I would've continued to think there's more on the table lol
Don't know why sad trolls troll. Wasn't hugged enough by mom or too much by dad? Regardless I think your parents didn't show you an appropriate amount of affection when you where younger.
Aug 13, 20 6:44 pm ·
·
gentle puppies
Whoa...
bad day? I'm just here to share my experiences so that others won't sell themselves short, as artistic professionals often do
Aug 13, 20 7:16 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
I still call bull on those numbers unless I really have no idea about the difference in cost of living in Vancouver. 90+ a year for someone with no management or technical tasks (and who can’t do basic code stuff) is way too much.
Aug 13, 20 7:22 pm ·
·
gentle puppies
It's about the same as Toronto, unless you want to buy property, which is about 20% more there
Just saw a Job post on archinect NYC job looking for recent graduate, starting salary 30K. I mean seriously? in NYC manhattan? Mcdonald worker makes more. For those thinking about getting into architecture, better run off fast.
Aug 11, 20 11:34 am ·
·
G4tor
if you're in this profession because of
money, i have some bad news for you...
Aug 12, 20 6:15 pm ·
·
tduds
G4tor, that's a fine thing to say if someone is thinking they'll strike it rich, but 30k in Manhattan is a poverty wage. No one should be working in this profession for that little money.
Aug 13, 20 12:48 pm ·
·
G4tor
I get where you're coming from but believe you me, if you've been in this industry for a while now, there are worse stories than the one that you're describing. Especially in this COVID climate, I expect more firms will be taking advantage of the fact that more firms are firing than hiring and driving their wages low.
Another 1 year update - small bump to 98k. Next year will be exciting - almost last among my high-school friend circle to make it to 6-figures hahaha.
FYI, for anyone starting their careers reading this - the first post was 9 years ago in the middle of a recession. Interns at our firm now average around 55k
I saw a 20% bump this year--which felt great--but likely just brought me to where I should have been. I assume most firms are keenly aware of the hiring climate right now. You've got to take care of staff and make it known that you're looking out for them--otherwise your people are going to get poached.
Nov 2, 21 7:01 pm ·
·
RJ87
I do think there's a climate of keeping employees right now. Especially if you're back in the office full time. I just received an 8% bump. Some others received a 20& bump but I had asked for a raise when I got my license back in May so I wasn't expecting anything else for a while. I'm up almost 35% on the year though, so compared to this time last year I'm pleased with the progress. We'll see what bonus season looks like here in 2 weeks.
Nov 3, 21 10:00 am ·
·
rcz1001
I'd echo what RJ87 and Black_Orchid said. Congrats on getting a 20% bump this year. You may be right that it may be closer to where you in theory should be paid but considering the profession, that's more or less good news versus being overly undervalued and underpaid which has been a problem in the architecture field. I would wish you similar increase next year but I wouldn't expect it to be safeguarding yourself from being overly depressed because you were hoping and counting on something that might not happen but I still wish you best of luck on being continued to be appropriately valued and paid.
The $98,000 Canadian that Gentle Puppies reported six months ago translates to a little less than $77,000 US. Don't know how that stacks up in Toronto. Hope he can save some money.
Apr 25, 22 8:33 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
98k loonies in vancouver does not get you very far.... perhaps a little further in toronto (although it'll be hard to find an office forking out that type of cash).
That's sill a lot of money for how unqualified and dense the OPseems to be. Based on his posts here I work with 2nd and 3rd year interns with more knowledge, better reasoning, and much higher comprehension than Gentle Puppies.
Apr 26, 22 1:25 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
Chad, I've already called out puppies on that before. My suspicions is that this person, if the numbers are true, is a token arch in a very large A&E/infrastructure type firm. We got plenty of those here too and they are very aggressive with recruiters.
Non Sequitur - Speaking as a token architect in a very large E & A (not A & E)/infrastructure firm, I'm not sure whether I should take offense at this or instead confirm your general appraisal of many of my compatriots...
I'd take it as a complement atelier. I want to be the token architect at a large E&A firm. I'd make all the money!
Apr 26, 22 2:02 pm ·
·
atelier nobody
Interestingly, when I took this job it was actually a (not too big) cut in pay from the small architecture firm I was coming from, but the benefits are a LOT nicer. (Also, I think the small firm I was at was extraordinarily generous for the local market.)
Just heard from an old colleague that he gave his notice for what was essentially his dream job (that maybe wasn't) as one of the token architects/specialists in a engineering/consultancy firm to take a new opportunity at an architect's office. Salary is the same he is leaving, title is likely the same or potentially a step down, but the benefits and company ownership model are definitely more attractive and lucrative for him. He'll be working 100% remote which was also a selling point for him.
Basically, yes they'd likely put themselves into the EA category of firm. In reality they did very little in terms of A services and only slightly more in terms of E services. Most of what they did was consultancy services where they are advising the architect, engineer, owner, or contractor only.
^^I'm not working for a E/A firm. It's a mid-size arch office with just one location, though with most working from home, a few are spread around the country.
Just got an annual bump to 104k. To recap I started post-MArch work in 2012. I still have never done detailing beyond concept sketches lol.
Sep 23, 22 9:51 am ·
·
reallynotmyname
You are in Canada, correct?
So, $76,676.60 United States Dollars?
Dang, that's not much money for such an expensive place to live. I make about 20% more than that an my cost of living is 35% less than Vancouver.
I don't think GP should be laughing that he has no detailing or CA experience. This is a huge hole in his skill set. There are only so many firms that will employ someone like that. When the economy hits a bump they can be the first to go.
^yep. If puppies is in fact still in vancouver market, than that 104kCAD is about 80kCAD in my market. Not chump change, but it's not rock-star $. No construction experience is a real killer here so hopefully puppies set a solid foothold in whatever office gave them that salary.
Sep 23, 22 1:09 pm ·
·
gentle puppies
i could've sworn a year ago Chad and Non Sequitur
couldn't believe how high the number was - now the number is too low? lol. How much are typical annual raises in at this level?
Oct 3, 22 7:56 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
It is too high for the role and responsibilities you’ve described.
gentle puppies - as Non said - the pay seems too high for what you actually can do. In terms of location the pay isn't much to live on. I'm surprised and concerned that you're unable to understand this.
QA, what city are you in? If you don't mind me asking. You should definitely be getting paid more than that. Although I work at a decently large office.
I make around that and have 16 years experience. Then again my custom built 1,800 sf home cost $330K. Of course three years after building it's supposedly worth $450K.
It took me 10 years to get to 104K in SF, about 5 years ago at an EA firm. I thought I was getting paid decently at that time as the firm offered me the salary I asked for, without a hassle. In my experience, EA firms do pay more. I realized now that some of the younger ones with 3-4 years experience are making 75k, so 100K for 6 years seems possible nowadays. As for working at an EA firm, the works aren't that as mundane as the others explained here. Yes, there are some works supporting engineers with setting up arch backgrounds or simple things like that. Even so, I got to work on several large projects $200-400m in range and got to work with all kinds of engineers onboard. It depends on the location, I guess. I think EA firms in major cities can do some cool projects.
Appropriate Salary?
Non Sequitur, people like you should probably just become a drafter. Not every architect thinks as you do. I think architects, not all, but if you give yourself the credit, can be on par with other professionals. As a lawschool drop-out, i can say that manu law grads from Toronto doesnt earn as much as you may imagine. However, whatever you entitle yourself to- that is your own. Unless one goes to Harvard law school they dont earn over 100k. Maybe you went to ryhigh? Thats why you think uou deserve real salary. Anyhow, i feel sympathy for your low self reflection as a drafter with designer glasses.
...anyone care to translate the above?
Folie^2, no need to feel sorry for me. Salaries are relative to billable skill; not ambition, delusions of self-worth or sparkly studio design skills. 60K is on the low end for a licensed architect in Ontario but it's pretty high for a simple M.arch with under 5y of real experience. Not sure how you're justifying the rest of your personal attack.
Non sequitur, perhaps you shouldnt be so sarcastic yourself. If you feel you have been verbally attacked, you should read your own comments. You have totally misinderstood my point of raising voice about general discontent with architects or intern architects salary irregarding whatever your pointing out about skills and experiences. Also, what is billanle skill? Delusional? Maybe you say this bc i point out to my starchitecture firm experiences? I get it, you consider yourself a drafter with designer glasses- however, have some respect for others who has as you so call it ambitions. I need not to justify but clarify for abusive commentor.
Folie^2, for the record I am licensed by the OAA and commend a salary well beyond the average aka I am no drafter. If you want higher compensation, you need to earn it by adding something to clients and that something has to have monetary value to the office. Where do you think the money for your salary comes from?
Inexperienced interns are not worth 60k Per year. Hundreds of these chumps graduate every semester anyways. Your starchitecture points don't matter much. Oooh, one term coop in Europe! Hurray! Not impressive. Come back when you can run multimillion dollar projects on your own, then you can start talking about real compensation.
Id like to Say this is going ti be the last reply. You misunderstand me the entire time and is taking things too personally. I dont much care or want to know who you are. I wondered about getting degrees and degres and dropping out of law school. After this summer, im leaving architecture hoing back for a law degree in one of those law schools mentioned above. You degraded our own profession by calling an anyonymous intern architect speaking about the problem of our industry with low compensation. What is your problem? I am only saying everyone deserves more, architects or interns, as we go through long process of exams and billing hours I find it imcompatible. If you belive otherwise, then at least dont mock others. You are probably much older than me and really, the tolerance level is way too low. And Wouldnt you be happier if you were more appreciated (so in fact you wouldnt be playing cyber comment warrior) ive worked three years and decided its time to move on- not a coop term man but two years in Europe which you guessed and mocked. I dont really care about you, for all I care, you deserve and can have your under 100k salary.
I did not follow any of that.
mouse trap = non sequitur, who makes fun of coop but never had the chance to do coop abroad and joined their school for no coop. I get it now, you hate waterloo ppl.
Lili...
I'm a waterloo grad myself.
8-)
I hope Lili learns how to write in law school.
FYI this thread is 6 years old now. Stop fighting!
Just an update as the OP - I'm licensed with OAA now and my base salary is now $84k, $93k on T4 after bonuses and benefits (<10hrs of overtime last year). I want to quit tho because I'm interested in doing simpler projects like condos but I'll probably have to take a pay cut lol
This is a great thread despite the tangent in the last few posts. Not many discussions here on Canadian salaries and I find that the american market skews expectations. From what I gather from this discussion's history, you're max 2 years above me carreer-wise and my experience seems to align well with yours as you describe it. I suspect my 2019 T4 will move me into a new tax bracket.
condos aren't simple
+1 Curt
How much do you make? I'm so out of the loop on market rates these days. My current projects are $50-$60million civic and STEM projects so condos are comparatively simpler lol, also it's more aligned with my interests
I'm only semi-anonymous so I won't divulge exact numbers, but hourly wage is squarely in the mid $30s/hr (I get OT pay above 37hr) but I am in active negotiation with the office brass for official PM promotion by summer's end. By that point, my compensation should near, if not exactly, what you list above. (85k+bonus).
Project sizes range from multi-story office buildings and commercial/retail development with a few academic, institutional, or industrial projects sprinkles. No residential.
^clarification, I'm on salary for first 1950hrs of the year. Anything above that is at the hourly wage. I've been averaging 10% OT for the last few years but it was close to 30% 5/6 years ago.
Man 10 years experience 93k.....sad trombone.
That's above the average for Canada. Remember, we don't need to pay for silly things like health insurance or 6-figure tuition loans here.
I am in Los Angeles and I would have been happy with that much (adjusted for inflation) at 10 years' experience. I don't make a whole lot more than that now, with over 20 years in.
I have no idea if Canada is the same as the US in this regard, but down here I would advise staying away from condos unless you have a taste for litigation and lots of insurance.
Architects should be allowed to create single use LLCs just like developers do. "Oh, the condo is crumbling, but LLC that built it is looooong gone. But the Architect is still in business! Let's sue them!"
Update, a small bump to $86k but it won't kick in till fall because Covid. Firm leadership is taking at 15% cut, 4% of staff laid off.
I wonder if firms sometimes pay according to perceived need, and I, a single gay guy with the slickest condo backdrop in every video conference, is less likely to switch firms over money lol.
I just entered my info on glassdoor and it's saying I'm below average now (8 years post-MArch, 2 years post-licensure). Does that sound right? A recruiter friend of a friend seemed surprised that I was making my salary with no managerial or technical responsibilities and primarily doing fun design studies.
I was planning on leaving anyway for a condo firm and figured I wouldn't get much of an increase with that project type - or can I? It's supposedly a bad time to switch jobs, but the recruiter was telling me that firms are hiring again and offered me an opportunity a few days ago.
recruiters get paid when you switch jobs so they sell hard - be mindful of that. but if something good comes up take it. leaving a firm when times are tough is a very sensible thing to do, and is the advantage of being a non-partner employee.
No managerial or technical requirements? yeah, $86k sounds nice in that regard... are you in charge of production sets and/or full concept to DD sets with the client? Are you on autopilot and do a lot of direct client interaction? If not I'm really surprised on your number.
What city are you in? That seems high for some areas, but typical for - say- NYC or Cali.
early in the post OP mentioned Toronto, so at exchange rates that's 61,000 USD which seems fairly middling for 8 years experience in a major market. But also ok for a position that seems to be comfortable and without much risk.
85k CAD is above market for 10-12y without management duties, even for toronto.
Ah, CAD to USD makes more sense. I'd say that's average, maybe slightly below, depending on what they mean by "management duties"
Agreed, my mistake, was thinking USD
Were in the start of along recession, excuse me, depression and any job in architecture is a dream job. Take what you can get and and be grateful
Non Sequirter, you a beta bitch. Sounds like you're lolly gagging on some Canadian bacon back there. Youre embarrassing you children and your dead relatives
Thank you for noticing.
Canadian bacon doesn't allow any lolly gagging, it's much too polite.
So many people saying SOM SF offers 45k for newly GSD Grads. I know people who have started working there in the last 5 years starting at 55-60k with only a B. Arch so those numbers are outdated.
well, this thread is 8y old... and typically, only the disgruntled folks come here to complain about low wages.
Ahh that makes sense. Archinect poste
d this thread on their Instagram story today. That's how I ended up here
60k is still awful for SF. Even 70k. 70K in SF is the same as making 35k in Dallas or Houston. And since grads make more than that in those places, you're making and saving MORE money than in the expensive cities.
Wow... I for one find threads like these highly valuable and reasons for coming to archinect, but maybe a new thread should be made as this one no longer receives enough action to provide good data points
https://salaries.archinect.com/poll/results/all/view-all ... you can sort by date submitted and see how old the submission is in the bottom corner of each entry
Thanks, that's a very helpful link and I've used it before. Of course, it is a struggle trying to use that information in a vacuum. In Atlanta for instance, for project managers, people have posted as low as mid-40k and as high as 125k... with a range like that, clearly project management and the roles/responsibilities that entails varies a ton.
I wouldn't personally offer $60 K if you were fresh out of school, but if you had several years work experience and were a valuable member of their office...and worked their before I don't think $60 is out of line. They know you, you are clearly someone they like having around and understand your skin set. The biggest concern with any new hire is that you interview well talk the talk but can't walk the walk!. there hopefully would be little "training" required as you know their systems and protocols which just gives you a jump start on any other new hire.... they would save the extra $5-10K in a few months because you would be more productive.
Maybe it's different in Canada, but in the US is it really common for employers to pay M.Arch I grads more than B.Arch grads? I would assume they get the same starting pay since both degrees are considered a 1st professional degree. Consequently, B.S. Arch (or "B.S. Architectural Studies or what have you) would be paid less than a B.Arch considering the B.Arch can actually qualify for licensure, whereas the 4-year degree cannot.
In many cases, our MArch applicants have work experience between grad and undergrad that we are willing to pay a little more for. With that experience comes a little more age and maturity, which we are also willing to pay a little extra for. Coincidentally, the last two 22 year old 4 and 5 year program grads we had turned out to be real shitshows when it came to responsibility and maturity.
Hi,
I've been working as a designer/architectural tech just outside of Toronto at a small company for the past three years. I came back from the US with a BSArch and took this job to save up for M.Arch. I stated at 40k and now 45k.
Considering how much cheaper it is living outside the city I would hope that as a Graduate Architect in Toronto would be able to earn more than 45k....otherwise I might as well skip the M.Arch and just stick with this job lol jk.
I think most of the people saying to work on your skills, and take contracts and freelance work makes sense. By the time I graduate with M.Arch I will have more to show in my professional works. Hopefully this will help in salary negotiations. If you have the experience and the skills don't take that low pay. Especially if it's not hourly and no overtime pay. They will end up earning free money off all the extra hours you put in.
Also, Toronto can be very competitive, especially for people just coming into the field. You may want to try working outside of the city for a year where there is more demand, and then come back to the city with more experience.
Of course if you know someone already working at a firm that can recommend you, that helps to! Oh and don't forget that the Canadian $$ is crap :(
6ix life
45k is probably the right spot for design/ tech in the 3-5y range. You’d get more, pre c19 shut downs, in other places with less competition tho. When you have a March, you could be in the 50-55 range if you can demonstrate that you need less hand holding and have the maturity to run projects. An office that seems you as someone who can eventually interact with clients and run projects will allow you to move up. An office that sees you only as part of the production staff will have a cap on your compensation potential.
yepp I agree, thanks for the info. looks like getting the M.Arch will be worth it in the end.
to answer joseffischer's question, the $86k is basically for fun design studies at the moment. I'm not in charge of anything and have no one under me other than the interns that we all share. I was never a project architect, but did do about 50% of all the hours billed to a $40M higher ed project working from concept to CD to contract admin, though there was always someone senior than me at every step to help. I never detailed an envelope. The only thing they really trust me with is design lol
sounds like a great gig, hope you're enjoying it!
How can you design the building without never detailing a building envelope?
Even though I was the only person full time on the project start to finish, there was a project architect for QAQC and a "detail guru" who drew the envelope details based on the design I and the design director came up with. It was a design-build so the builder took those details as suggestions lol. Then for CA there was the project manager who joined me every other site meeting to help with any issue above my pay grade =)
I did that for the my first eight years or so in this profession. Be aware that it leaves you with a HUGE hole in your skill set that makes you harder to market during a recession (aka keep or get a job). You really do need to know how to detail a building, coordinate drawings, and run CA on a project.
It’s quite a big hole too. I worked before as the designer then lead designer for concept to DD, and while it was a sweet deal at the time, you start realizing that all you are is the principal’s sketchpad. Unless you’re also sharing in the profits (ie. firm partner), it’s worth no more than a couple years. If the projects are interesting, I would totally get my hands on a couple of details your gurus draw and look them over after hours. Research and redraw what they did and see how your design changes can impact their details. It’s the only way to upskill and add value/compensation.
Re this, Chad: "You really do need to know how to detail a building, coordinate drawings, and run CA on a project." This is 100% true and 100% why I am totally miserable in my current main project at my job. I hate doing this shit. If I'm not the one who decided, for reasons, to make the stairs stained concrete with glass rails then I can't find it in myself to give a damn whether or not they are. There's no pleasure in telling a contractor to do it a certain way if I don't care why it is that way in the first place. I *suck* at project management and hate every moment of it. Some people love it; I've learned in the last 18 months that I don't. Give me a residential kitchen remodel where I understand and guide the reasons behind every decision and I'm happy as a pig in shit!
Puppies, it looks like you are functioning as the "Director of Design" for your firm. It's a role that exists at a subset of firm who choose to organize their operation in a certain manner. I've worked for several who didn't know jack about envelopes and detailing. Similar to your experience, other people in such firms have the task of making the design work technically and getting it built correctly. I know some people who have made careers being design directors at a series of firms.
I miss being a 'design director' of sorts. I really enjoy the design but I also like to figure out the details for things. Really for me if I wasn't the designer I have a hard time 'caring' about the detailing and CA for a project. My main issue is my current firm one of the parterres is the 'Director of Architecture' and this person tries to do all the design work but in reality I keep doing most of it since I'm 'fixing' things (massing, materials, colors, layout, proportions) not to mention the detailing that is required to make things work.
I have found that the presence of a design director can be a rich source of frustration for other staff in the office. The position can easily be abused.
Yup. Especially when you're not that great of a designer.
This has been an interesting thread! We are looking at moving to Toronto from the UK.
I currently hold an Interior degree and was looking at moving into that position in CA and then consider MArch.
I am now doing the full 7 years in the UK to qualify (and save!) to enable us to move out there.
Given, at that point, I'll have 11 years experience in an Architectural role with a BA, BArch and MArch + PGDip, would I be on a low pay relative to experience? My pay at that point in my current position will be in the region of £35k GBP which is high for the region I live.
I am guessing, it may be a push for $60k CAD?
I know given the timeframe involved numbers will go up or down, but as a ballpark as it was last year say.
Your question makes little sense. So you have a Int des degree but are now starting a whole new arch undergrad and hope for M.arch? Can't you just jump right into a M.arch? Regardless, 60k canadian is high if you don't have any relevant canadian experience to offer. At that pay rate, you will be expected to know enough of our building codes and construction practices or else any office will loose money as it trains you.
Sorry, it was a badly written post!
It is no longer possible to sit the external exam with an Int Des or Int Arch BA and then progress to the MArch/Part 2.After discussion with the ARB, the only option is to start again. That isn't an issue as my current course is office based, which still allows for career progression and a good salary.
I presume the $45-50k junior salary I have been seeing would be applicable in my case then. With both me and my partner on a similar wage, lets say a combined annual salary of $100k, it wouldn't be un-affordable!
Depending on the city, that could be manageable but it’s hard to say where numbers will be that far into the future. What you should concern yourself with is the Canadian license and IDP process. A UK license does not count for much here unless you have a decade of licensed arch experience.
Thank you. It may make more sense for me to maybe drop out of my RIBA Part 1 and do M.Arch using my BA Interior Arch for entry requirements in Canada if that is a possibility? Need to look into it more and see if it's possible.
read through https://cacb.ca/ for accredited programs. The requirements are the same in all canadian provinces so if you complete a M.Arch on the CACB's list, then you can start the intern arch process.
Thank you, I'm reading through, along with admission requirements from various universities.
What's your thoughts on Carlton?
I have a Carleton undergrad degree and know plenty with M.Arch from there. I'm also on first-name basis with most of their faculty although I'll admit that I don't see them very often these days. What do you want to know?
Don't go to Carlton! You'll end up working at a firm where somehow 60k is a lot of money. 60k is like zero experience entry job in nyc.
But rusty, 60k (Canadian) is good in Ottawa for a March grad.
I just did a quick search for real estate in Ottawa. I guess you can still buy a run down condo for under quarter million. Still can't afford it at 60k, but if you bust your ass for a decade, a run down condo could be all yours!
Or you could make $90K in NYC, bust your ass for ten years and still only rent a small apartment.
You can’t really get much for under 400k but cost of housing is high everywhere. Still, economy here is good enough to make this achievable in general. I’m sure my and my wife’s joint yearly income is far less than yours in NY, yet we don’t have a problem.
Our new home was under $350K project cost. We don't have an issue.
Chad, salary ceiling is significantly higher than 90k in nyc. But not to fluff feathers here on which place is best, I am kinda seeing a trend where a lot of cities are going through same stuff nyc went through like 10-15 years ago. Through the roof expenses with salaries not quite keeping up. Whatever your thoughts are on nyc prices and salaries, this will be your reality in a decade. We don't just sneak preview novel diseases.
If I could only convince my fiance about van life. Some drafting here and there while exploring the world sounds way better than a lifetime of busting your ass anywhere to barely afford some airspace in a 1950's mid rise with a giant HOA.
I'm never said or thought that $90K was the pay cap in NYC. I was responding to your comment about stating pay in NYC being higher that $60K. Just as you've said - pay isn't keeping up with expenses regardless if you live in NYC. The rest of your comment just reads like a paranoid hipster trying meth for the first time.
A person named Chad, trying really hard to be edgy at all times. Who would've thunk it.
Try harder.
Thanks Non, thoughts on their teaching methods, student interactions with each other and are they more technical or conceptual? On the salary, 60k would just be my salary, not taking into account my wife's, which in her field I have seen 58k to in excess of 100k
Jaetten, leaving the $ numbers aside, Carleton once had a strong conceptual undergrad program. Back then, it was well respected as a feeder school more than a place for graduate studies. this was 15y ago... today, the undergrad is a thin shell but the grad program is much better and some memories of the high-conceptual past are still alive with some faculty. Classrooms are small and you get loads of one on one time with professors. Your time will be equally spent on prof prac coursework (which are weak at CU) and design studio/thesis. Some technical stuff but this will vary on who is doing the teaching. You get to choose your own adventure (somewhat) and direct your research however you want. I'm pretty sure my name is still written on the u/s of the 3-storey atrium ceiling in the arch building.
Thank you, from what you have written it looks like a good option for me to consider! A lot of options flying around at the moment
I just got an offer for 90k at a smaller firm (roughly 50 staff). That was the number I proposed, and they said yes immediately haha. I thought I must have left a bit on the table, but was planning to take the offer anyway, until my boss at a previous firm in Vancouver whom I keep in touch with, countered with 100k at his 10-person firm.
I thought I was well-paid given little management/detailing experience, but I'm starting to think that I have really outdated expectations of the job market...?
Also, would it be super rude to ask the first firm to up it to 95 to make me feel better about choosing them?
Aren't you the person who was moonlighting a multi family residential project without your firms knowledge and thus couldn't ask them for help with basic code issues regarding a stairway? If I recall you came here for help with these issues but didn't seem to grasp the advice given when people told you that your design wouldn't meet building code.
Yeah that is you. I believe the conscientious of other Canadian architects was that you're overpaid for your abilities. Keep this in mind when trying to ask for more money. While a 50 person firm is on the large side it's not so big that discrepancies between your actual experience and what you promote yourself to be won't be seen quickly.
I told them explicitly that I have little management or detailing experience (in case they got a different impression), and they were still enthusiastic about hiring me...?
I don't think the code discussion was fair given that no one seemed to get my repeated emphasis that it was a theoretical project attempting to meet the intent of the code rather than the letter of it.
It's good that you're honest with your possible employers. I'm not buying that it was only a theoretical project. Regardless you seemed to miss the fact that not only where you not meeting the intent of the code you failed to understand that when dealing with egress situations like that the letter of the code is what is to be followed. Again - these are things that someone with half your amount of experience would know.
How you can make 6 figure salary with so little real construction knowledge is beyond me. Good for you tho, but this is an exception.
I wondered that before, but then again look at the expertise required to be a teacher or cop in Toronto making 85-110k lol
^cops are useful to everyone and serve many purposes plus the whole danger that comes with the job. No one needs architects.
I wonder what the % difference in cost of living is between Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, etc.
He was attempting to meet the intent of the code rather than the letter of iiiiiiiiiiiit.....
You win the internet for the WEEK citizen.
So I told my design director friday morning that I was leaving, hoping to learn what they were willing to offer me to stay. No number would make me stay, but I was hoping to leverage that info for negotiating the new firm. Except he was distraught and I had to re-assure him that it about following my passion, nothing to do with money/advancement, that I initially expected a pay-cut in making this change, etc, so the convo never went there.
I mentioned the 100k offer to the new firm, asking them to meet me halfway at 95. HR couldn't reach the partners so late on a friday afternoon, so it was a bit of a nervous weekend - I know they won't rescind the offer, but if they said no to any increase, I was going to take that as a sign that it wasn't meant to be. They're always supposed to bend a little, right - like I'd be a sucker to take the first number we agreed on, right? Anyway we landed on 94. It's perfect, cuz if they agreed to 95, I would've continued to think there's more on the table lol
I think you're making this up.
What would be the point in that?
Don't know why sad trolls troll. Wasn't hugged enough by mom or too much by dad? Regardless I think your parents didn't show you an appropriate amount of affection when you where younger.
Whoa... bad day? I'm just here to share my experiences so that others won't sell themselves short, as artistic professionals often do
I still call bull on those numbers unless I really have no idea about the difference in cost of living in Vancouver. 90+ a year for someone with no management or technical tasks (and who can’t do basic code stuff) is way too much.
It's about the same as Toronto, unless you want to buy property, which is about 20% more there
Just saw a Job post on archinect NYC job looking for recent graduate, starting salary 30K. I mean seriously? in NYC manhattan? Mcdonald worker makes more. For those thinking about getting into architecture, better run off fast.
if you're in this profession because of money, i have some bad news for you...
G4tor, that's a fine thing to say if someone is thinking they'll strike it rich, but 30k in Manhattan is a poverty wage. No one should be working in this profession for that little money.
I get where you're coming from but believe you me, if you've been in this industry for a while now, there are worse stories than the one that you're describing. Especially in this COVID climate, I expect more firms will be taking advantage of the fact that more firms are firing than hiring and driving their wages low.
I dunno - I just got a 10% raise so ::fingers crossed::
Another 1 year update - small bump to 98k. Next year will be exciting - almost last among my high-school friend circle to make it to 6-figures hahaha.
FYI, for anyone starting their careers reading this - the first post was 9 years ago in the middle of a recession. Interns at our firm now average around 55k
But where does that fall in reference to Vancouver median income? Can you buy property with that? Nice update tho, this thread is a fun read.
no worries you'll be last among your friends to retire too ;)
I saw a 20% bump this year--which felt great--but likely just brought me to where I should have been. I assume most firms are keenly aware of the hiring climate right now. You've got to take care of staff and make it known that you're looking out for them--otherwise your people are going to get poached.
I do think there's a climate of keeping employees right now. Especially if you're back in the office full time. I just received an 8% bump. Some others received a 20& bump but I had asked for a raise when I got my license back in May so I wasn't expecting anything else for a while. I'm up almost 35% on the year though, so compared to this time last year I'm pleased with the progress. We'll see what bonus season looks like here in 2 weeks.
I'd echo what RJ87 and Black_Orchid said. Congrats on getting a 20% bump this year. You may be right that it may be closer to where you in theory should be paid but considering the profession, that's more or less good news versus being overly undervalued and underpaid which has been a problem in the architecture field. I would wish you similar increase next year but I wouldn't expect it to be safeguarding yourself from being overly depressed because you were hoping and counting on something that might not happen but I still wish you best of luck on being continued to be appropriately valued and paid.
The $98,000 Canadian that Gentle Puppies reported six months ago translates to a little less than $77,000 US. Don't know how that stacks up in Toronto. Hope he can save some money.
98k loonies in vancouver does not get you very far.... perhaps a little further in toronto (although it'll be hard to find an office forking out that type of cash).
That's sill a lot of money for how unqualified and dense the OP seems to be. Based on his posts here I work with 2nd and 3rd year interns with more knowledge, better reasoning, and much higher comprehension than Gentle Puppies.
Chad, I've already called out puppies on that before. My suspicions is that this person, if the numbers are true, is a token arch in a very large A&E/infrastructure type firm. We got plenty of those here too and they are very aggressive with recruiters.
Non Sequitur - Speaking as a token architect in a very large E & A (not A & E)/infrastructure firm, I'm not sure whether I should take offense at this or instead confirm your general appraisal of many of my compatriots...
I'd take it as a complement atelier. I want to be the token architect at a large E&A firm. I'd make all the money!
Interestingly, when I took this job it was actually a (not too big) cut in pay from the small architecture firm I was coming from, but the benefits are a LOT nicer. (Also, I think the small firm I was at was extraordinarily generous for the local market.)
^can it be both Atelier? 8-)
Just heard from an old colleague that he gave his notice for what was essentially his dream job (that maybe wasn't) as one of the token architects/specialists in a engineering/consultancy firm to take a new opportunity at an architect's office. Salary is the same he is leaving, title is likely the same or potentially a step down, but the benefits and company ownership model are definitely more attractive and lucrative for him. He'll be working 100% remote which was also a selling point for him.
So your old colleague left the EA firm to move to a A firm?
Basically, yes they'd likely put themselves into the EA category of firm. In reality they did very little in terms of A services and only slightly more in terms of E services. Most of what they did was consultancy services where they are advising the architect, engineer, owner, or contractor only.
Yes, going to an A-only firm.
^^I'm not working for a E/A firm. It's a mid-size arch office with just one location, though with most working from home, a few are spread around the country.
Just got an annual bump to 104k. To recap I started post-MArch work in 2012. I still have never done detailing beyond concept sketches lol.
You are in Canada, correct? So, $76,676.60 United States Dollars?
^and living in vancouver.
Dang, that's not much money for such an expensive place to live. I make about 20% more than that an my cost of living is 35% less than Vancouver.
I don't think GP should be laughing that he has no detailing or CA experience. This is a huge hole in his skill set. There are only so many firms that will employ someone like that. When the economy hits a bump they can be the first to go.
Hopefully everything works out great for GP.
^yep. If puppies is in fact still in vancouver market, than that 104kCAD is about 80kCAD in my market. Not chump change, but it's not rock-star $. No construction experience is a real killer here so hopefully puppies set a solid foothold in whatever office gave them that salary.
i could've sworn a year ago Chad and Non Sequitur couldn't believe how high the number was - now the number is too low? lol. How much are typical annual raises in at this level?
It is too high for the role and responsibilities you’ve described.
gentle puppies - as Non said - the pay seems too high for what you actually can do. In terms of location the pay isn't much to live on. I'm surprised and concerned that you're unable to understand this.
CO. $98,000 (85k base) with 6 years experience. Feels like I could be making more knowing what new hires are making these days.
Wow that’s like 25-30% more than I make now at 10 years :/.
QA, what city are you in? If you don't mind me asking. You should definitely be getting paid more than that. Although I work at a decently large office.
EnigmaticOne - Are you in Denver?
I make around that and have 16 years experience. Then again my custom built 1,800 sf home cost $330K. Of course three years after building it's supposedly worth $450K.
Yep. You are lucky enough to have a custom built home!
I am lucky enough to have a wife who is good with money. Thus the home. ;)
It also helps that compared to the mean of 100 the cost of living in Denver is at 127 and Grand Junction is 96.
Also the home isn't very fancy. Little a not big A.
It took me 10 years to get to 104K in SF, about 5 years ago at an EA firm. I thought I was getting paid decently at that time as the firm offered me the salary I asked for, without a hassle. In my experience, EA firms do pay more. I realized now that some of the younger ones with 3-4 years experience are making 75k, so 100K for 6 years seems possible nowadays. As for working at an EA firm, the works aren't that as mundane as the others explained here. Yes, there are some works supporting engineers with setting up arch backgrounds or simple things like that. Even so, I got to work on several large projects $200-400m in range and got to work with all kinds of engineers onboard. It depends on the location, I guess. I think EA firms in major cities can do some cool projects.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.