1) because nobody really knows what to call people who are out of school but are not licensed. Most of the world recognizes an 'intern' as someone who is still in school, and is possibly not getting paid. So firms invent their own names - Jr. Designer, Graduate Architect, etc.

2) Yes bring your own questions, but don't jump to money so early. Generally you want to wait until they bring up money, otherwise you look like that's the only reason your there (even if that's true, don't make it so obvious). And don't make it about what they expect from you, but about what the job entails and what the opportunities are. What does a 'graduate architect' typically do there? Why are they hiring (are they growing, or did somebody quit)? What sort of hours are typical there, etc. Try to learn as much as you can about them, as they will about you.

here's a follow-ip question:


how do you ask what sort of hours are typical there, without being seen as not interested in working hard?

firms range from 40 hours and no more to 80 hours... but how can you ask this without sounding lazy or workshy?

because you'll be an intern, you'll most likely be paid hourly instead of salary. so the number of hours worked weekly is a perfectly relevant and business-like question to ask. and it should be followed by an assurance that the office pays for overtime [payx1.5].

i may be becoming cynical but if they suggest you, as a beginning intern, should work on salary, beware - be ready to work long hours for free. not to say that this WILL happen, but i'd start asking others in the office (if you can get access to them) what to expect.

imo, salary should be related to a level of experience and professionalism in which you can be held responsible for managing your own time. someone under direct time-management of others should be paid hourly.

Look your employeer in the eyes.....don't look at the floor. They are looking for an employee not a servant.

Actually Steven, I'm on salary in my first year out of school and work an average of 2 hours overtime a week. There are offices out there that just manage time well.

As for how to ask about hours without seeming like a slacker, put it in the same conversation with money. That way, it seems like you're trying to figure out what amount of money corresponds with the hours you'll be working, not like you don't want to work.

When you get the job offer, also ask to meet and speak to the people you would be working with. That is the venue for trying to get a more accurate indication of what your work environment and hours are going to be like.

if they put you on salary, make sure you at least get decent benefits. i was offered something a little on the low end (salaried) of my acceptable spectrum right out of school but they had a lot of benefits and office perks that were associated w/ the job. i worked hard. made a good impression and they gave me a nice raise, after a year.

architecture is a field that doesn't pay so well. but that doesn't mean you should get bullied around and abused.

and a good way to evaluate hours (w/o asking questions) is to check up on the firm after 8pm one night before you go and see how many people/cars/lights on there are. also check on a saturday.

as an employer, I'm happy to answer questions from candidates about the average amount of overtime we work at our firm -- I'm also happy to discuss our approach to compensation (we pay for OT) as early in the conversation as the candidate wants -- it's better for both parties to know the other's views on those matters before you join the firm

however, try to remember that different firms have different cultures about overtime -- at some, there's very little OT worked / at others, people at all levels are at the firm at all hours

if you're not interested in working 60 hour weeks and the firm you're interviewing does that a lot, you ought to be upfront with them -- it will only lead to problems later if you don't speak up before they hire you.

ACfA is right -- be sure you fully understand and are happy with the full compensation + benefits package before you agree to work at any firm -- while this generally is not something we discuss in detail during the initial interview, it is something we want to go over in depth during the follow-up interview

we provide all candidates we're serious about with a complete written summary of our benefits package, even before we issue a job offer -- this is important stuff and if your prospective employer doesn't consider it important, you may not enjoy working with them for very long.

I just recommended it come later because most employers pay you what they think you're worth. If they haven't even seen your portfolio or asked about your previous experience yet, they may not be ready to give you the answers you seek and think it presumptuous of you to want to talk money before they even feel like they know you. I'm not saying don't ask, just that maybe y'all should get a feel for each other and whether there's even a chance of it working out first.

I look for a candidate who states in their cover letter that they are looking to work in a dynamic team oriented environment.

Ask about their "overtime policy" if they don't bring it up. You're just curious about the "system that they have in place" to deal with it, right? My old firm didn't have any "system" (meaning no overtime pay and a really terrible way of asking you to come in on the weekend), and I ended up with ~500 overtime hours last year and a WEAK bonus. You want to learn and contribute, but you do not want to get rolled.

I think it's very important to acknowledge your lack of experience but also to give the impression that you understand your worth. A savvy interviewer will appreciate that.

- in my experience, every firm will approach the interview in a different way - some will want to waltz with you for most of the initial interview, letting you do most of the talking and letting you walk them through your portfolio. others will be very well organized and provide you lots and lots of information about their firm and their approach to project delivery and compensation and benefits and career development - others will be somewhere in between

you need to be prepared for either extreme - as i see it, during the initial interview, your job is to a) convey what you are capable of doing for the firm; b) provide them with confidence that you can work effectively as a part of their operations; and c) demonstrate that you will deliver more value than you cost.

at all costs, make a strong effort to avoid making the impression that you're only interested in a) what they can do for you; b) how much freedom and flexibility you need from them; and c) how much they're going to pay you for your extraordinary gifts. no matter what you think, the interview's not about you -- it's about what you can do for them.

if the situation is appropriate for both parties, then the details will work themselves out during a second or third interview -- the first interview is just to get acquainted and learn a little about the other. in my experience, both parties will know within 5-10 minutes whether it's likely to be a fit. those first 5-10 minutes are vital to you -- don't take them too casually. show up on time; have your portfolio organized and make a good first impression.

B. Arch ranges from 30k-37k

pencebor: if you'll share some geographical information, I'll look up starting salary data for your location in the latest aia compensation survey and post it here. or, if you want to keep your location confidential, i suggest you call your local aia office to see if they have a copy of that publication on file

I feel much better now!
Thank you everybody!

I have one more question for you: "do you guys ever have to finish your work at home, in case you cannot meet the deadline, or is it just office work, and staying late at the office to finish it?

Btw, comb, Michigan ZIP 48076

Thanks again!

I graduated with a B.arch in June and am paid salary instead of hourly. I work probably 43 hours a week or so, but the extra overtime pay I would have received have been made up for with a raise at 6 mos. employment and LOTS of professional mentoring and grad school portfolio & application critique. If it's a big office that pays salary, I might be concerned, but if it's a small firm that just wants to keep their financial bookeeping simpler and offer more hands-on experience with the principals, I think it's a good trade-off.