Above is a link to an article concerning itself with our profession in regards to ABC's new "Bachelor" search. The show is irrelevant though, because reading this seems to indicate that all professional architects are closet case homosexuals who would rather sit at home and sketch utter crap than go out and enjoy themselves. I'm new to this game of architecture (I'm still a student), so I have to ask the question, are we really as bad as popular culture would make us out to be?
The obvious answer I think is no, of course not. I know we work hard and long hours, we sacrifice, we do things "normal" people would consider insane but that's because we're passionate people, and passionate people do crazy things. I've heard of the arrogance that is prevalent in our profession, but, not to sound like a total ass, don't we kind of deserve to be a little arrogant about our work? In the same way a doctor would be about his/her work perhaps? Doesn't being an architect afford the ability to make functional, beautiful space/buildings? If so, why must we keep our mouths shut about it all the time? If any punk off the street can throw some wallpaper up and buy a Corbu chaise lounge and consider themselves a "designer" what the hell am i working so hard for then? That's almost as bad as a man performing surgery on himself.
The other thing that got me was the "close-mindedness", this is about as bad a stereotype as calling all white people greedy. The people I've met in this profession are as open-minded as they come, I would guess you would have to be to be an architect. We seem to bridge so many gaps and pull all this knowledge together to produce our work. This dosen't seem to be a profession that favors the inflexible mind. Of course one has to be resoulute when it comes to our designs and defending them against literraly the whole world, but when the heat comes off i suspect so would the resolute point of view.
The worst part though was this "Architects tend to be introverted thinkers who would rather stay home to look at floor plans and elevations than wine and dine you at the latest hot spot," this was from some lady who wrote a book that got published, so according to modern standards she's an expert. Practically ALL the architects and students I've met love to have a good time. After working 80 hours straight, who in their right mind wouldn't hit the town (after a weekend of sleep of course). Not to mention the fact that we seem to gravitate towards hip night spots like moths to a lamp. Just look at the sheer amount of clubs and restaurants that get notoriety in the architectural press. The fact that architecture firms clog trendy downtown areas would indicate that this is "closet case" stuff is BS. You can't walk half a block in Tribeca without passing an arch. firm.
So my final question is this, by the time I'm 27, and in professional practice full on, will I become this stereotype? I know many of you on this site are older, and wiser than I, you've been in the trenches fighting the good fight, but have you honestly ever pulled your date aside and said, "I'd rather not go out tonight honey, I'd much rather stay at home and sketch my cat." I know we're not just empty turtlenecks, and it's about time we showed this planet we're not half the jerks we're made out to be.
P.S. this is my first topic post, try not to flame me too hard.
i'm with you apumaric. Architects aren't the only ones. Every profession has stereotypes..it's just how people typically think. but hey at least architect stereotypes aren't as bad as say..lawyers. Those people get looked down upon a lot.
What struck me as odd reading this article is that literally the exact same qualities those women complained about in the male architects they had dated were the same qualities various boyfriends have been attracted to me for! I would imagine for every one of those complaining women there are probably tons of other women who think the exact opposite. There's something very sexy about being passionate about what you do, particularly if it's something aesthetic. How many jobs get someone so excited that they stop to sketch something in the middle of a street? How many people can even SKETCH in the first place?! The men I've dated have pretty much uniformly liked those things about me, to the point where sometimes they actually overshadowed other, more major (you would think) personality traits. Amusing. Poor article since it doesn't paint the opposing viewpoint (especially since one of the on-the-street interviews at the bottom actually mentions passionate artist/construction types as sexy).
Yeah, lawyers do seem to get it the worst. I wonder if some of these stereotypes will clear a bit now that there are much more women in the field? Or maybe there will just be alot of bad stereotypes of female architects? I could seriously see myself dating a female architect though, although we would probably never see each other that much. Speaking of sketching, I did my first "diner napkin sketch at 7 a.m. after an all-nighter" today, felt good, I think thats where my project is going now.
Just got a link to the NYdaily article today from a co-worker. I figured there would be a thread about it in archinect...and here it is.
I thought the article was hilarious. I don't know where the whole gay stereotype came from. Not that there is anything wrong with being gay, of course. I guess its generally more common for gay architects than contruction workers, but compared to other professions?
I don't know...I know gay guys that were originally in engineering and then switched to architecture because there were so many gay guys in the field.
And maybe the stereotypes are so bad because unlike lawyers and doctors, people have less of an idea of what we do and the average person doesn't have a lot of experience with us.
"They're visionaries who know how to plan. But the risk of dating an architect is that they're extremely set in their ways. They think they know what's best for you and that includes everything from which direction your couch should face to where you should hang that new painting." a visionary that moves couches around, wow!!!!!
the rest I can see how someone not involved in this field can say that, although it is a cartoon of who we are.
They couldnt even fact-check:
NY Daily, I guess you patrol architecture forums/blogs: It was HOWARD Roark... Im just saying.
"They're visionaries who know how to plan. But the risk of dating an architect is that they're extremely set in their ways" i dont think thats totally wrong
Mar 17, 06 4:38 pm ·
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I think they show cast a closet case architect as The Bachelor and then cast 25 other male and female architects as the dates. I mean, wouldn't everybody watch that show?
the said thing about the article is that it's true...no wonder i still single. i can hardly go into a public building anymore without asking them to adjust the lights or change the music. yikes...introspection time.
Mar 17, 06 4:58 pm ·
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group date hangin' out linen closet style
Mar 17, 06 4:58 pm ·
·
second group date
"almost feminine, almost American?"
i dunno about the stereotypes of architects all being either female or gay, or even metrosexual (can we please kill that word already). i couldn't give a shit what i look like (my wife would agree) and if the texas longhorns hadn't won the rose bowl i'd still be looking around the house for things to break.
but i think it would be great to have an architect in a role like this. look at the jobs that previous people on that show have done...ER doc, NFL quarterback, wealthy heir (that's a job i want)...all traditional type-A male macho personality-type jobs.
in the kind of demographic that watches this show i think it would be great to present an alternative, a heterosexual man who cares about art, design, social issues, music...
someone who works his ass off at his job and likes it even though he doesn't make tons of money and/or bomb little kids from airplanes and/or rescue dogs from burning buildings...
someone who, yes, may actually think about and get excited about something other than sex, sports and alcohol...
i think it would be healthy.
now, since you asked, apurimac...i am 28 and i have to say, a lot of those statements in that article sounded about right, at least when it comes to me. i have never voluntarily entered a club in my life (although that may be attributable to the fact that my mom ran a club when i was a kid and it ain't as glamorous as it may seem). alcohol and music go great together, yes, especially if i'm at home in my ikea chair with a 600-page book about terragni and i'm listening to belle & sebastian. i sketch a whole bunch. i can't bear to spend money. the ratio of the time i spend thinking about architecture/work to time thinking about sex is about 1,578,289:1.
what is also being said in that article, frankly, is that there aren't women out there who would "put up" with an architect for a significant other. my wife happens to hate going out, too, and also happens to sit at home and sketch a lot when she's not making stuff. she's also cheap as hell. and i hear no complaints about being obsessed with work. and she's not some dowdy old hausfrau who is lucky to have any husband at all. i, however, am lucky to have any wife at all, i will admit as much.
hmm... interesting point ochona. For me architecture/sex ratio is about 50/50, sometimes they go hand in hand. I would also have to agree with the above thread that in relation to the Bachelor that it would be interesting to see an architect in the role, but what concerns me is all these misconceptions about architecture and architects. I mean I'm sure to an extent these stereotypes may be true, but for the most of us they're probably lies. I really don't like clubs that much either, but I love bars and lounges. Funny though, in my entire arch school, which probably has about 250+ people in it, I only know one guy who's openly gay, then again very little about my school matches any college stereotypes.
Lastly though I sure as hell ain't working my ass of just so i know which way the couch should face, jesus christ, that really was probably the most stupid point made in that whole article.
Oh come on. They lure us back to their apartments just so they can ask us how to hang there art or where to put the damn sofa.
Before I went back to school I had to make a hard and fast rule that I wouldn’t do drawings on the first date and wouldn’t build or install anything until at least the third.
It’s a vicious double standard. Everyone wants cheap, easy no-strings-attached esthetic advice but they only respect you if you make them earn it. As you can tell from the article, if you’re too ready to give it up to just anyone they go around and talk about you.
This thread cracks me up. Why didn't the article note that architects typically have a snarky and intelligent sense of humor?!
As for being set in (y)our ways, I recently had a friend to dinner and she helped with the salad - the way she cut the carrots almost ruined the salad for me. And it was purely aesthetic: they just looked wrong, the salad looked unbalanced with those big carrot slices, it was all I could do to not pull them all out and rechop then the way I prefer.
So, yeah. When it comes to appearance, I can be rigid.
...and when one person with an opinion dates/marries another person with an opinion...whoa! my wife and i almost split up (before we were engaged) over reusing yogurt cups as juice glasses. not over whether or not to do it. no. over what brand we should use. i said, the store-brand ones from the jewel looked the best, she liked the yoplait ones for their taper. but those have this weird rim condition. just felt wrong drinking my grapefruit juice out of one of those.
plus the yoplait cost twice as much. so, there again...architects are cheap.
Lastly though I sure as hell ain't working my ass of just so i know which way the couch should face,
hahaha I had the same thought! Also, after: They think they know what's best for you and that includes everything from which direction your couch should face to where you should hang that new painting." my first thought was, "everything FROM?" That's like saying, "everything from tomato soup to vegetable soup!" ...ie, such a fucking limited scope of "design" decisions. Who do they think we are, inferior designers?! Any architect worth her salt could find about 247 other things to critize about the same space beyond just a couch and fucking painting. Amateurs.
no kidding...although among the art and art-history majors i had a habit of dating (before i married an art historian) it was hard to criticize...those ladies had taste. however, i did inform my now-wife then-girlfriend that her apartment had mold just from the way she smelled (hadn't even gone into her apartment). turns out i was right, the university bulldozed the apartments after finding black mold and now the place is a parking lot
funny, I'm actually married to a scientist who is design obsessed - we fought over buying an alarm clock or not , he thought it was ugly and I didn't care (it was ugly as hell but we bought it anyway)
nevermore, i will pay serious money for one of those shirts. The female arch students at my school are all ridiculously good looking, amazing considering there is an "IT" at the end of my school name. Besides, a female architect has gotta be good with her hands...
Are these vile and odious lies?
Above is a link to an article concerning itself with our profession in regards to ABC's new "Bachelor" search. The show is irrelevant though, because reading this seems to indicate that all professional architects are closet case homosexuals who would rather sit at home and sketch utter crap than go out and enjoy themselves. I'm new to this game of architecture (I'm still a student), so I have to ask the question, are we really as bad as popular culture would make us out to be?
The obvious answer I think is no, of course not. I know we work hard and long hours, we sacrifice, we do things "normal" people would consider insane but that's because we're passionate people, and passionate people do crazy things. I've heard of the arrogance that is prevalent in our profession, but, not to sound like a total ass, don't we kind of deserve to be a little arrogant about our work? In the same way a doctor would be about his/her work perhaps? Doesn't being an architect afford the ability to make functional, beautiful space/buildings? If so, why must we keep our mouths shut about it all the time? If any punk off the street can throw some wallpaper up and buy a Corbu chaise lounge and consider themselves a "designer" what the hell am i working so hard for then? That's almost as bad as a man performing surgery on himself.
The other thing that got me was the "close-mindedness", this is about as bad a stereotype as calling all white people greedy. The people I've met in this profession are as open-minded as they come, I would guess you would have to be to be an architect. We seem to bridge so many gaps and pull all this knowledge together to produce our work. This dosen't seem to be a profession that favors the inflexible mind. Of course one has to be resoulute when it comes to our designs and defending them against literraly the whole world, but when the heat comes off i suspect so would the resolute point of view.
The worst part though was this "Architects tend to be introverted thinkers who would rather stay home to look at floor plans and elevations than wine and dine you at the latest hot spot," this was from some lady who wrote a book that got published, so according to modern standards she's an expert. Practically ALL the architects and students I've met love to have a good time. After working 80 hours straight, who in their right mind wouldn't hit the town (after a weekend of sleep of course). Not to mention the fact that we seem to gravitate towards hip night spots like moths to a lamp. Just look at the sheer amount of clubs and restaurants that get notoriety in the architectural press. The fact that architecture firms clog trendy downtown areas would indicate that this is "closet case" stuff is BS. You can't walk half a block in Tribeca without passing an arch. firm.
So my final question is this, by the time I'm 27, and in professional practice full on, will I become this stereotype? I know many of you on this site are older, and wiser than I, you've been in the trenches fighting the good fight, but have you honestly ever pulled your date aside and said, "I'd rather not go out tonight honey, I'd much rather stay at home and sketch my cat." I know we're not just empty turtlenecks, and it's about time we showed this planet we're not half the jerks we're made out to be.
P.S. this is my first topic post, try not to flame me too hard.
i'm with you apumaric. Architects aren't the only ones. Every profession has stereotypes..it's just how people typically think. but hey at least architect stereotypes aren't as bad as say..lawyers. Those people get looked down upon a lot.
What struck me as odd reading this article is that literally the exact same qualities those women complained about in the male architects they had dated were the same qualities various boyfriends have been attracted to me for! I would imagine for every one of those complaining women there are probably tons of other women who think the exact opposite. There's something very sexy about being passionate about what you do, particularly if it's something aesthetic. How many jobs get someone so excited that they stop to sketch something in the middle of a street? How many people can even SKETCH in the first place?! The men I've dated have pretty much uniformly liked those things about me, to the point where sometimes they actually overshadowed other, more major (you would think) personality traits. Amusing. Poor article since it doesn't paint the opposing viewpoint (especially since one of the on-the-street interviews at the bottom actually mentions passionate artist/construction types as sexy).
Yeah, lawyers do seem to get it the worst. I wonder if some of these stereotypes will clear a bit now that there are much more women in the field? Or maybe there will just be alot of bad stereotypes of female architects? I could seriously see myself dating a female architect though, although we would probably never see each other that much. Speaking of sketching, I did my first "diner napkin sketch at 7 a.m. after an all-nighter" today, felt good, I think thats where my project is going now.
Just got a link to the NYdaily article today from a co-worker. I figured there would be a thread about it in archinect...and here it is.
I thought the article was hilarious. I don't know where the whole gay stereotype came from. Not that there is anything wrong with being gay, of course. I guess its generally more common for gay architects than contruction workers, but compared to other professions?
Either way, stereotypes are horrible.
I don't know...I know gay guys that were originally in engineering and then switched to architecture because there were so many gay guys in the field.
And maybe the stereotypes are so bad because unlike lawyers and doctors, people have less of an idea of what we do and the average person doesn't have a lot of experience with us.
This is the most insulting:
"They're visionaries who know how to plan. But the risk of dating an architect is that they're extremely set in their ways. They think they know what's best for you and that includes everything from which direction your couch should face to where you should hang that new painting." a visionary that moves couches around, wow!!!!!
the rest I can see how someone not involved in this field can say that, although it is a cartoon of who we are.
They couldnt even fact-check:
NY Daily, I guess you patrol architecture forums/blogs: It was HOWARD Roark... Im just saying.
"They're visionaries who know how to plan. But the risk of dating an architect is that they're extremely set in their ways" i dont think thats totally wrong
I think they show cast a closet case architect as The Bachelor and then cast 25 other male and female architects as the dates. I mean, wouldn't everybody watch that show?
o no that may be right,
is the couch and painting thing that made me cringe.
although upon further review I do try to tell my wife how to hang her art work, damn it!!, i concede they are right.
the said thing about the article is that it's true...no wonder i still single. i can hardly go into a public building anymore without asking them to adjust the lights or change the music. yikes...introspection time.
group date hangin' out linen closet style
second group date
"almost feminine, almost American?"
channel surfing...
i dunno about the stereotypes of architects all being either female or gay, or even metrosexual (can we please kill that word already). i couldn't give a shit what i look like (my wife would agree) and if the texas longhorns hadn't won the rose bowl i'd still be looking around the house for things to break.
but i think it would be great to have an architect in a role like this. look at the jobs that previous people on that show have done...ER doc, NFL quarterback, wealthy heir (that's a job i want)...all traditional type-A male macho personality-type jobs.
in the kind of demographic that watches this show i think it would be great to present an alternative, a heterosexual man who cares about art, design, social issues, music...
someone who works his ass off at his job and likes it even though he doesn't make tons of money and/or bomb little kids from airplanes and/or rescue dogs from burning buildings...
someone who, yes, may actually think about and get excited about something other than sex, sports and alcohol...
i think it would be healthy.
now, since you asked, apurimac...i am 28 and i have to say, a lot of those statements in that article sounded about right, at least when it comes to me. i have never voluntarily entered a club in my life (although that may be attributable to the fact that my mom ran a club when i was a kid and it ain't as glamorous as it may seem). alcohol and music go great together, yes, especially if i'm at home in my ikea chair with a 600-page book about terragni and i'm listening to belle & sebastian. i sketch a whole bunch. i can't bear to spend money. the ratio of the time i spend thinking about architecture/work to time thinking about sex is about 1,578,289:1.
what is also being said in that article, frankly, is that there aren't women out there who would "put up" with an architect for a significant other. my wife happens to hate going out, too, and also happens to sit at home and sketch a lot when she's not making stuff. she's also cheap as hell. and i hear no complaints about being obsessed with work. and she's not some dowdy old hausfrau who is lucky to have any husband at all. i, however, am lucky to have any wife at all, i will admit as much.
so apurimac, run like hell
1,578,289:1?
OUCH!
hmm... interesting point ochona. For me architecture/sex ratio is about 50/50, sometimes they go hand in hand. I would also have to agree with the above thread that in relation to the Bachelor that it would be interesting to see an architect in the role, but what concerns me is all these misconceptions about architecture and architects. I mean I'm sure to an extent these stereotypes may be true, but for the most of us they're probably lies. I really don't like clubs that much either, but I love bars and lounges. Funny though, in my entire arch school, which probably has about 250+ people in it, I only know one guy who's openly gay, then again very little about my school matches any college stereotypes.
Lastly though I sure as hell ain't working my ass of just so i know which way the couch should face, jesus christ, that really was probably the most stupid point made in that whole article.
at least we are not REALTORS- is that a profession?
Oh come on. They lure us back to their apartments just so they can ask us how to hang there art or where to put the damn sofa.
Before I went back to school I had to make a hard and fast rule that I wouldn’t do drawings on the first date and wouldn’t build or install anything until at least the third.
It’s a vicious double standard. Everyone wants cheap, easy no-strings-attached esthetic advice but they only respect you if you make them earn it. As you can tell from the article, if you’re too ready to give it up to just anyone they go around and talk about you.
i have a lot of work to do...
here's a quote from a client of my former employer's:
"let's get a gay-man interior designer to pick out these paint colors"
and i love bars and lounges, too, especially ones containing at least one of the following:
beer in cans
conway twitty on the jukebox
a piss trough
funny, though, my dates never liked those
This thread cracks me up. Why didn't the article note that architects typically have a snarky and intelligent sense of humor?!
As for being set in (y)our ways, I recently had a friend to dinner and she helped with the salad - the way she cut the carrots almost ruined the salad for me. And it was purely aesthetic: they just looked wrong, the salad looked unbalanced with those big carrot slices, it was all I could do to not pull them all out and rechop then the way I prefer.
So, yeah. When it comes to appearance, I can be rigid.
...and when one person with an opinion dates/marries another person with an opinion...whoa! my wife and i almost split up (before we were engaged) over reusing yogurt cups as juice glasses. not over whether or not to do it. no. over what brand we should use. i said, the store-brand ones from the jewel looked the best, she liked the yoplait ones for their taper. but those have this weird rim condition. just felt wrong drinking my grapefruit juice out of one of those.
plus the yoplait cost twice as much. so, there again...architects are cheap.
hahaha I had the same thought! Also, after: They think they know what's best for you and that includes everything from which direction your couch should face to where you should hang that new painting." my first thought was, "everything FROM?" That's like saying, "everything from tomato soup to vegetable soup!" ...ie, such a fucking limited scope of "design" decisions. Who do they think we are, inferior designers?! Any architect worth her salt could find about 247 other things to critize about the same space beyond just a couch and fucking painting. Amateurs.
no kidding...although among the art and art-history majors i had a habit of dating (before i married an art historian) it was hard to criticize...those ladies had taste. however, i did inform my now-wife then-girlfriend that her apartment had mold just from the way she smelled (hadn't even gone into her apartment). turns out i was right, the university bulldozed the apartments after finding black mold and now the place is a parking lot
..they are jealous of us cos we architects are so damn good looking.
...and gay!
Oh, wait.
so?
ochona i am wiping away tears of laughter at your yogurt cups story. wow...
Are you so worried about your chances of getting a date that you fear this article will affect your chances of getting laid?
If it concerns you, you probably weren't doing too well anyway! Try the UK!
ahh Sari. Listen, Im really sorry it didn't work out between us! But enough already, you dont have to take it out on ALL architects!!
funny, I'm actually married to a scientist who is design obsessed - we fought over buying an alarm clock or not , he thought it was ugly and I didn't care (it was ugly as hell but we bought it anyway)
now he wants a mac. how uncool does that make me?
nevermore, i will pay serious money for one of those shirts. The female arch students at my school are all ridiculously good looking, amazing considering there is an "IT" at the end of my school name. Besides, a female architect has gotta be good with her hands...
Lucky you apuri.99% of the world's girls are pretty,the remaining 1% are in my office.
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