Quite a few people asked me about fees for getting permit for house additions. Since housing prices increased so much in last couple of years, people who want to move to a bigger house, found they won't be able to afford it. So they think about remodeling. I don't have much experiences with the fee, so I just give them number based on percentage of construction fee, like 4-6% of construction fee. The construction cost is another guess. I will say maybe about $150 oer sqft.
I wonder if any one who has more experiences on this may share it. What will be reasonable price for an addition, let's say about 600sqft? I know people talked about hourly fee before. I think the house owner will be more confortable to get a fixed fee, at least know the range. I will really appreciate your in put on this. Thanks!
All of that depends upon which part of the country you are in.
Here, we tell clients construction costs of $450/sq. ft and up and we charge 15% of construction cost. And yes, every owner would be more comfortable with a fixed fee. But, every time we have agreed to a fixed fee we have lost money (regardless of how high the fee was).
But we have recently been talking about charging a fixed dollar amount for every joist hanger used on a house.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Reason you looking to move in on Tyveks territory...with all those post. I look at each and every project as a different task. Time...it
the big clicker...how much time is it going to take you and are you going to bring in consultants to do the job. As my bronze sculpture professor told me a long time ago....figure out what it is going to cost and times it by 10....you will be in the ball park my friend. It is a crap shoot. Oh ya I forgot to mention certain clients can be a real pain in the you know what....so figure you will have a few but don't be discouraged. Just landed the Whale this past week....
To inject a bit of reality, a more likely sqaure foot cost in much of North America is probably $200 (plus or minus). I assume from your post these are not ultra high-end residences. As for fee, a good target is 12-15%, understanding that it might take a lower fee to secure the work, particularly if you have no registration / little experience / etc. (also an assumption based on your initial post).
Here is what my experience has taught me, doing a small addition like 600 S.F. as you mention will take some time. So be prepare to spend it.
I would see if the addition will require any consultants (i.e. structural engineer mainly) you can talk to residential HVAC firms and electricians to take a look at the project and see how they will add heating/cooling, and if the exiting electrical panel and circuiting will be adequate. Figure out what this will cost you, for small additions I do all the drafting and have the structural review and stamp the structural sheet, this saves me money.
Then I will break down the task required to do the additions and estimate the hours you need to produce each phase of the project:
1. as-built drawings: your time to go over the project and document the existing conditions and prepare a set of as-builts to include floor plans, RCP framing and electrical, HVAC and so on. Use these drawings as part of your decision making while designing the addition.
2. Schematic Design: come up with some design concepts no more than three I would say have a meeting with you client to review each one of them and have the chosen direction approved by your client.
3. Design Development: talk to local residential contractors you may know in your area, see if the can spend a few hours with you to determinate a preliminary cost, it helps if you have quantities and square footage info. and an idea of the finishes you are thinking of using. Run this cost by you client make sure you have about 10% contingency and the contractors cost, permitting and relative soft cost of the project, you can encourage your client to select a contractor to work with at this stage of the game to help control the cost and get input into cost effective strategies for the project. Review the cost and get approval from your client to continue onto the next phase.
4. CD- do the best set of documents you can possibly produce, reason is two fold one for liability issues, two; it will cut down at the amount of time you will have to spend during the construction of the project and the contractor will be able to move along faster.
5. CA- have a few hours to review any questions from the contractor and owner, and help the owner review any payment request from the G.C. also allow for some time if the project is bid out.
This is a very quick outline of the tasks you will use in a typical project, and it will help the client know how much work is involved. If you are doing it as freelance job, (out side of your day time job) I would think an hourly rate of 2.5 to 3.0 times of you hourly day time job's rate should be fair.
Sorry for the long response, there is much more, but it all depend on the project specifics-
Hope this helps
Nice response southpole. The only thing that I will add is that a $/sqft number is almost meaningless in addition/renovation work. For example, do you count the square feet of the library which you have to tear open just to get the waste line to work for your "bathroom addition"? Etc, etc.
Recently, I decided to to change the way I charge. Previously, I would charge for each phase. Survey/ base drawings of existing, Design, and Working drawings. Then I would have to complete each phase before I would bill. This meant if a phase dragged on and on I would usually wait and send the bill rather than get paid for a percentage complete. So anyway Last mnt I sent a proposal out to a prospective client that made me more comfortable about getting a paycheck often.
After getting familiar with their project I determined how many hours I would need to hammer the 3 phases out. I then added 50 percent more hours for unknowns, redesign, surprises,etc.. This gave me a max. fee for which I proposed "not to exceed" I would bill on a hourly basis every two weeks. To me I will be paid for all time invested and the client has a figure that tells them a fixed number for the work. I wished I had a better way of coming up with the max hours needed but I just rely on just using a guess based on number of 8 hour days. Usually I don't end up making exactly the hourly amount but it's part of the the business. I have trouble working based on percentage because it's tougher in my area to justify to the client. For small projects.
tyvek-
you are totally right, it’s difficult to get a cost per S.F. in a small residential project, that’s why it’s good to have a relationship with some residential contractors, kitchen and bath cost 3 to 4 times more than a bedroom sometimes 10 times more-
Studio43-
You are wise to bill often, it all depend on how you set your contract in my case I always bill monthly, for the % of the phase I am working on.
It’s good idea to get a retainer on small projects- 15%- to 25% of the not to exceed fee if you can-
I read some time ago an article about the Airline design industry, when they design the they always toss in an extra fee for the unknown and then they toss in an additional fee for the unknown, unknown and the longer I'm in this business it seems to make more sense. Seems like when someone wants you for a little there is a reason why....so I usually run as fast as I can or I evaluate the fee structure so I'm sure I will scare them off or they will be my very best client.
Snooker
Another possible client called and asked if I wouuld help with a master bedroom addition. It was for a project that was 60 miles away. I knew if I just gave him a fixed amount that drive would be killing me later. I told him over thew phone without seeing the project an amount of "no less than "x" dollars" or "at a minimum" Once I got a look at the project I knew I was way low. At the moment I have a dozen projects going on so I sent him a proposal for much more because I knew if he wasn't serious about it and was just feeling me out for a price he would be turned off. So rather than give he a price I know was a bit low but I could live with. I gave him a number that if he did accept I would be that much better off
Sorry, there must be some problem with computer. So I was amazed by how many identical post showed up. But I don't know how to delete it. Anyone can help? Thanks!
freq_arch,
I'm licensed and have quite a few years of experiences. But I only worked on a couple of houses. Since the public and commercial work I work on are usually quite different from residential work, you have quite a few consultants to work with.
Studio43, southpole, tyvek, thanks for all your responses. I wonder if you can give me a ball park what you would charged for single family house 2,500 sqft and 600 sqft addition if only include family or bedrooms? I know bathrooms and kitchens are more expensive. I wonder who are the clients? I know there are very low percentage of homes are designed by architects, since most people think they can't afford it, they will just go to builders to buy house plans or identical houses. And there are a lot of architects doing residential. I wonder if there are potential in this area. But it seems if you want to be on your own, it is more likely to start with residential projects. Any thought on that? Thank you!
Mar 7, 06 3:30 pm ·
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How do you charge for house addition?
Quite a few people asked me about fees for getting permit for house additions. Since housing prices increased so much in last couple of years, people who want to move to a bigger house, found they won't be able to afford it. So they think about remodeling. I don't have much experiences with the fee, so I just give them number based on percentage of construction fee, like 4-6% of construction fee. The construction cost is another guess. I will say maybe about $150 oer sqft.
I wonder if any one who has more experiences on this may share it. What will be reasonable price for an addition, let's say about 600sqft? I know people talked about hourly fee before. I think the house owner will be more confortable to get a fixed fee, at least know the range. I will really appreciate your in put on this. Thanks!
All of that depends upon which part of the country you are in.
Here, we tell clients construction costs of $450/sq. ft and up and we charge 15% of construction cost. And yes, every owner would be more comfortable with a fixed fee. But, every time we have agreed to a fixed fee we have lost money (regardless of how high the fee was).
But we have recently been talking about charging a fixed dollar amount for every joist hanger used on a house.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Tyvek, Where is your location? We are in Seattle area. How bif is your firm? Your seem to do highend residential. What I deal with now is small addition at after work time, so it is just try to cover the basic cost and get some thing done first then as advertisement.
Reason you looking to move in on Tyveks territory...with all those post. I look at each and every project as a different task. Time...it
the big clicker...how much time is it going to take you and are you going to bring in consultants to do the job. As my bronze sculpture professor told me a long time ago....figure out what it is going to cost and times it by 10....you will be in the ball park my friend. It is a crap shoot. Oh ya I forgot to mention certain clients can be a real pain in the you know what....so figure you will have a few but don't be discouraged. Just landed the Whale this past week....
To inject a bit of reality, a more likely sqaure foot cost in much of North America is probably $200 (plus or minus). I assume from your post these are not ultra high-end residences. As for fee, a good target is 12-15%, understanding that it might take a lower fee to secure the work, particularly if you have no registration / little experience / etc. (also an assumption based on your initial post).
Here is what my experience has taught me, doing a small addition like 600 S.F. as you mention will take some time. So be prepare to spend it.
I would see if the addition will require any consultants (i.e. structural engineer mainly) you can talk to residential HVAC firms and electricians to take a look at the project and see how they will add heating/cooling, and if the exiting electrical panel and circuiting will be adequate. Figure out what this will cost you, for small additions I do all the drafting and have the structural review and stamp the structural sheet, this saves me money.
Then I will break down the task required to do the additions and estimate the hours you need to produce each phase of the project:
1. as-built drawings: your time to go over the project and document the existing conditions and prepare a set of as-builts to include floor plans, RCP framing and electrical, HVAC and so on. Use these drawings as part of your decision making while designing the addition.
2. Schematic Design: come up with some design concepts no more than three I would say have a meeting with you client to review each one of them and have the chosen direction approved by your client.
3. Design Development: talk to local residential contractors you may know in your area, see if the can spend a few hours with you to determinate a preliminary cost, it helps if you have quantities and square footage info. and an idea of the finishes you are thinking of using. Run this cost by you client make sure you have about 10% contingency and the contractors cost, permitting and relative soft cost of the project, you can encourage your client to select a contractor to work with at this stage of the game to help control the cost and get input into cost effective strategies for the project. Review the cost and get approval from your client to continue onto the next phase.
4. CD- do the best set of documents you can possibly produce, reason is two fold one for liability issues, two; it will cut down at the amount of time you will have to spend during the construction of the project and the contractor will be able to move along faster.
5. CA- have a few hours to review any questions from the contractor and owner, and help the owner review any payment request from the G.C. also allow for some time if the project is bid out.
This is a very quick outline of the tasks you will use in a typical project, and it will help the client know how much work is involved. If you are doing it as freelance job, (out side of your day time job) I would think an hourly rate of 2.5 to 3.0 times of you hourly day time job's rate should be fair.
Sorry for the long response, there is much more, but it all depend on the project specifics-
Hope this helps
Nice response southpole. The only thing that I will add is that a $/sqft number is almost meaningless in addition/renovation work. For example, do you count the square feet of the library which you have to tear open just to get the waste line to work for your "bathroom addition"? Etc, etc.
Recently, I decided to to change the way I charge. Previously, I would charge for each phase. Survey/ base drawings of existing, Design, and Working drawings. Then I would have to complete each phase before I would bill. This meant if a phase dragged on and on I would usually wait and send the bill rather than get paid for a percentage complete. So anyway Last mnt I sent a proposal out to a prospective client that made me more comfortable about getting a paycheck often.
After getting familiar with their project I determined how many hours I would need to hammer the 3 phases out. I then added 50 percent more hours for unknowns, redesign, surprises,etc.. This gave me a max. fee for which I proposed "not to exceed" I would bill on a hourly basis every two weeks. To me I will be paid for all time invested and the client has a figure that tells them a fixed number for the work. I wished I had a better way of coming up with the max hours needed but I just rely on just using a guess based on number of 8 hour days. Usually I don't end up making exactly the hourly amount but it's part of the the business. I have trouble working based on percentage because it's tougher in my area to justify to the client. For small projects.
tyvek-
you are totally right, it’s difficult to get a cost per S.F. in a small residential project, that’s why it’s good to have a relationship with some residential contractors, kitchen and bath cost 3 to 4 times more than a bedroom sometimes 10 times more-
Studio43-
You are wise to bill often, it all depend on how you set your contract in my case I always bill monthly, for the % of the phase I am working on.
It’s good idea to get a retainer on small projects- 15%- to 25% of the not to exceed fee if you can-
Studio 43:
I read some time ago an article about the Airline design industry, when they design the they always toss in an extra fee for the unknown and then they toss in an additional fee for the unknown, unknown and the longer I'm in this business it seems to make more sense. Seems like when someone wants you for a little there is a reason why....so I usually run as fast as I can or I evaluate the fee structure so I'm sure I will scare them off or they will be my very best client.
Snooker
Another possible client called and asked if I wouuld help with a master bedroom addition. It was for a project that was 60 miles away. I knew if I just gave him a fixed amount that drive would be killing me later. I told him over thew phone without seeing the project an amount of "no less than "x" dollars" or "at a minimum" Once I got a look at the project I knew I was way low. At the moment I have a dozen projects going on so I sent him a proposal for much more because I knew if he wasn't serious about it and was just feeling me out for a price he would be turned off. So rather than give he a price I know was a bit low but I could live with. I gave him a number that if he did accept I would be that much better off
Sorry, there must be some problem with computer. So I was amazed by how many identical post showed up. But I don't know how to delete it. Anyone can help? Thanks!
freq_arch,
I'm licensed and have quite a few years of experiences. But I only worked on a couple of houses. Since the public and commercial work I work on are usually quite different from residential work, you have quite a few consultants to work with.
Studio43, southpole, tyvek, thanks for all your responses. I wonder if you can give me a ball park what you would charged for single family house 2,500 sqft and 600 sqft addition if only include family or bedrooms? I know bathrooms and kitchens are more expensive. I wonder who are the clients? I know there are very low percentage of homes are designed by architects, since most people think they can't afford it, they will just go to builders to buy house plans or identical houses. And there are a lot of architects doing residential. I wonder if there are potential in this area. But it seems if you want to be on your own, it is more likely to start with residential projects. Any thought on that? Thank you!
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