I just want to take a moment to mention, doesn't it sometimes seem like we are one big group therapy session? No offense meant to you at all flickbee, it's just interesting how often we see cases like yours.

I've never considered changing fields so I don't know how much help I can be. However, I will say that having a degree in architecture, I can pretty much do whatever I'd ever want to do....it's empowering in that I think "if I went through that much I can surely attempt this" etc. Getting an education is not something you should be "scared" about. It should be exciting! And if not, that's what transfers are for.

It also seems like you might have some committment issues, perhaps? I take it you are a guy, yes? .....just kidding. Sort of.

hmm, i wouldn't say i'm "scared of school" more like i'm scared of making an enourmous change in my life that could potentially turn out no better than where i am right now, only leave me many thousands of dollars in debt and behind many hours of sleep. or maybe i'm feeling more ambivalent: am very
excited about how great getting an MArch could be (and what the future may hold) but also worried about the disappointment potential.

though i wouldn't disagree about the fact that i might have committment issues (though am not a guy!) i did manage to stick with my ex-field for 7 years or so (with breaks) if you count undergraduate school, work in the field, and grad school. i know hindsight is always 20/20 and looking back there were huge warning signs that i was on, well, not the right path. signs like having to take breaks from school all the time (i'm on my 3rd leave of
absence, and 2nd as a grad student), inability to decide on what grad program would be best for me, and hating 2 out of 3 jobs in the field (though at the time i attributed that to having to work for not great people).

should i take this second guessing as a warning? if this was right for me, should i really know it? should it be obvious?

an observation ... i handle the majority of recruitment for our firm ... in that role, i see a fair number of candidates who have returned to school to study architecture or interior design after 5-8 years in another field ... these people typically have done VERY well in school and they come out of school both with maturity and with clarity about what they want to do with their lives ...

as a growing design firm, we really like to interview such candidates because a) these people know how to hold a job and show up for work; b) they know why they come to work every day; c) they bring commitment and seriousness to the client and the project ... the only drawback is that they sometimes have economic expectations (due to their age) that are somewhat inconsistent with what they can deliver right away -- but, we usually can work through that challenge

i can't help you decide what the right decision might be for you ... what I can tell you is that firms like ours would welcome a chance to speak with you once you've earned your degree ... the combination of your life experience and your design training promises a lot of value

i was on the fence when i graduated from undergrad. so i got a job first and have been working for almost 2 years. it's been an eye opener and a great experience. in addition, i'm both certain and extremely excited about grad school. it's hard to land a job in the design field w/o some background or experience but try whatever you can to get a foot in the door.

2nd guessing isn't bad. but sounds like you need answers to personal questions that only first-hand knowledge can answer. we can all give you our opinions but none of us will settle any qualms you have.

My advice will always be: If you aren't 100% sure you want to do architecture, then don't. It requires too much dedication to justify the mental, physical, and of course, monetary expense.

Go get your MBA or something like that. Maybe it's boring, maybe not, but at least you'll be making $$. You can change your mind later on, if you want.

At least this way, you'll have one of the largest burdens everyone faces lifted. If architects made more money, then I'd say go for it, but they don't.
It's all relative, though, and personal. Some people value certain things more than others, etc., etc. For me, the lack of creative expression and the lack of pay made it an easy choice to leave the profession after 7 years of great schooling (that, I shoudl note, I would not trade for anything).

Good luck.

If you were in a Phd program for social sciences and are interested in architecture, you should check out Architecture for Humanity and what Cameron Sinclair has been doing over the past few years. Or places like Redfeather. Maybe you don't need to enroll in a MArch program to be involved with architecture. I doubted architecture a couple years ago after 3 years in the field, took a break and bartended for a while, moved, came back to architecture, got LEED certified, started taking the ARE, and am now excited more than ever about the possibilities. So who knows what could happen. But I hear you, if I was confronted with having to go back to school for 2+ years I would be doubting as well (which is exactly where I was 5 years ago before I found out I could get licensed without going back to school). Even if you're passionate about it, sometimes you'll doubt it. Then it will go back. Do you think people like Henry Miller or Charles Bukowski were ALWAYS sure about their writing? I doubt it. But, you never know. Maybe. Your call.

Quizzical, it's encouraging to hear your perspective.

I've been a chef for the better part of the last decade...and after much burnout on my part, i started in design. first as an assistant for a commercial kitchen designer, and now in a more traditional architectural office. (While continuing to work for the kitchen designer...)

I have found that both firms that i work for, in addition to others that i have spoken to, have been more interested in me as a result of my personal experience, than simply as a result of schooling. The transition was tough and time-consuming...I continued cheffing while working for two different firms until i had accrued enough experience to warrant more hours (and now there's not enough time in the week!)

My experiences in some pretty insane french kitchens have emboldened me to try my hand in areas that i had otherwise not considered. i've applied to just one MArch program (Pratt) as a bit of a personal trial...if accepted, perhaps I'll be further emboldened and try my portfolio at some other schools for next year...but yeah, It's an enormous committment of time and $.

This i'm sure is no help to you flickbee, but i always learn from others' experiences, and thought i'd share mine...once you start in at design, you may find yourself with some transferrable skills you didn't know you had.

good luck in your efforts...

flickbee - i can really empathize with you. it is a really tough decision! my advice to you is this:

if you have already left your first phd program, let it stay behind you. don't bring it into this equation, especially if you consider it to be some level of failure (which it isn't). it was what it was.

ask yourself why you want to pursue architecture. ask yourself if you can handle all nighters, all the time. and be honest with your answers. if you hate academia now, trust me, you'll really hate academia when you have to deal with arrogant and pretentious arch professors - they are, for the most part, a breed all their own.

if you're still somewhat on the fence, give it a try anyway. nothing ventured, nothing gained. if you don't really love what you're studying after the first semester then transfer, shift, do whatever you got to do. you may be surprised that your experience opens up new opportunities and interests. trust the process.

You need to take some time off IMO flickbee..now is not the moment to make that decision.

A clear answer will come; u'll either feel it or you won't.

Just take some time off and go have some fun.

first, i just want to thank everyone whose given me advice.

there are days like today when i feel so sure that arch is absolutely
the right career for me and i so want to get going, and head in that
direction. still, the prospect of more school right now isn't thrilling
me. though maybe i think it's more the dread of more academic
courses rather than studio, which is what, by far, i'd be spending the
majority of my time.

still, taking more time might seem like the right plan for me. assuming
that i get in some places (which i suppose i'll know march/april), does
anyone know about deferral policies for m. arch programs (i appllied
mostly to ivies)? of course, maybe i won't get in anywhere (very real
possibility), and that solves that issue!

from what I know most architecture programs do not have deferments

... you may want to look at programs like the University of Cincinnati that are designed around active co-op programs ... this sort of program would help you manage both the economic struggle and the "do I really want to live my life this way" question by giving you lots of in-office experience long before you earn your degree

My girlfriend got into a pretty selective MFA program for Creative Writing last year and they had no problem with her deferring for a year. It's not architecture but sometimes you'd be surprised. They way we figure is schools want money. They have money ready to be given to them, why turn it down instead of waiting a year for it. I don't know where you are but comb brings up a point. There are schools like the NewSchool in San Diego that when you enroll you also get a job at a local firm. Like half work half school sort of hands-on thing. May be less "academic" for you.

i have two college age sons (neither is studying architecture) ... one is in a program where it's almost impossible to work during the semester and still keep up with the coursework ... the other is in a program where a parallel paid internship in his chosen field is required ... the son who is not able to work is going to graduate with crushing debt and without a clear understanding of what it's really like to work in his discipline ... my other son will have little, if any debt, when he graduates and already feels like he's a part of his chosen profession.

i'm a VERY strong proponent of co-op and work/study programs

Some M.Arch programs don't allow deferrals - they require students to apply all over again and take their chances. You'd need to check the policies with each school individually, as this varies. Some programs will defer for certain reasons (serious illness, national guard call up) but not others (cold feet.)

for MArch i deferred for a year in order to earn enough cash to pay for school. wasn't a big deal, but yeah you should check.


flickbee, i know what you mean. making decisions like that are not always easy, and i have changed career enough times that it ain't funny (don't regret any of the changes mind);

for me the model has always been my father, who started out as a carpenter of the farm, became a psych nurse, then social worker. then when he was 40 he sold his home to pay for a masters degree in hospital administration, moving across the country to do so. I went with him cuz i had just finished high school and saw up close how the decision affected him...which was for the better i'd say. It took him 10 years or so to catch up with where he had been before, but he was satisfied for having done it.

He passed away last year (56) from a weird disease no one gets, but the thing is my father lived his life so there were never any regrets. he did/tried everything (big time!), loved everyone, and had fun. I didn't notice it til lately but i try to approach big decisions in the same way, and am willing to give up a lot now just so i won't have to look back in 20 years and think what if? type thoughts.

Life is short and there are no correct answers, but not trying something because it might not work out (as opposed to because it is a bad idea, like sex on a bed of nails) would be a shame.

well, that is my dear abbey version. but i do beieve it. cuz if i die at 56 (which ain't so far off, all in all) i really don't want to have any regrets...

cool example distant.