If I were wanting a stone exterior effect similar to Zumthor's thermal baths, what products would I look at? My materials research hasn't turned up anything as thin and compressed... finding lots of ashlar fieldstone, etc.
according to a video i saw on the baths, all of that stone was quarried locally and cut to zumthor's specifications. it's a pretty rigorous system, documented in an architectural association publication from about 10 years ago, on the baths themselves. i don't think it's that freakishly thin, just looks that way because the pieces are so long.
if you're just scanning most american companies' stock offerings, yeah, it's going to be a nightmare turning up anything good. one of the best stone companies i've run across is: burlington natstone. stuff costs a fortune, but the 'bursting' stone with a flamed finish is unbelievable. it's all english limestone and slates. burlingtonstone.com.
Where would I see a construction detail for stacking slate and/or natural stone like that? I read that Zumthor's walls are actually composite in situ concrete and stone... is it drystacked tightly with a cavity and steel ties? How else could it be done, say in a residential or commercial application where insulation and other interior finishes would be necessary?
Sorry, just learning about this stuff and I"m trying to do some materials research. Thanks!
Have a look at some of the In Detail books from Detail magazine. If I remember correctly, there is a book on stone with accompanying projects and details. Also have a look at Materia which often has some good stuff.
Is it feasible to take a 1.25" slab and cut it into 4" x 12" blocks, stack them in a rowlock configuration, and tie them to a concrete block backup wythe? How do you reinforce a drystack veneer or, alternatively, make it appear to be drystacked?
i did a study of the building when in grad school awhile back and found details for most of the building. only thing is i can't recall where.
I think it might have been the german magazine detail , as well as a bit of an american publication for picturesque consumption that also had a few details inserted.
i am sure your school library has the details and the info if you have a look in the stacks.
it IS a concrete structure with the stone a face material only. stone is local and cut in various shapes and finishes according to his design.
i love the finish but am more impressed with the structural sysem and the cantilevered roof slabs that let in the light between the pieces. really brilliant.
We are using Welsh slate on a project in Wales right now. We had two options for hanging our slate. One was to use a carrier system which are similar to masonry ties but they take the weight of the slate tiles (see terracotta tile systems for the basic idea).
The second system (and the one we are using becasue labour is too goddam expensive here), is to have the backs of the tiles drilled out with a special auger, then a small expanding grub connection is inserted and locked in place (these stick out of the back of the tiles). The tiles are then laid in the bottom of a casting bed, a separating layer of polythene is added and then a concrete panel is poured.
Despite how thin the slate looks we are dealing with 40mm thick tiles in either situation. You need the thickness in order to maintain enough 'meat' for the ties in either case.
...of course the QS wanted to use a moulded compressed cement sheet instead. So we killed him.
The stone is called Vals Quartzite. It is a local stone from Vals, where the baths are. It's unique in that it's sedimentary & metamorphic. So there are these milky sediments that swirl and twist. My firm used it on a corporate pub for Miller Brewing Company and the big cost was shipping it (air freight) to America. The US distributor is Quarra Stone in Madison, WI. The people at Quarra might be able to tell you more about the baths.
mpsyp:
sit back, have a drink. take it easy. let us do your work. big stone details for the baths are in the zumthor a+u extra edition. it ain't rocket surgery to actually look in the books of the projects that you aim to rip off. i can't imagine that your 'materials research' would turn up much if your 'thermal baths' research didn't turn up readily available details. the stone aint that thin.
switters> not trying to get you all to do my work. I appreciate that people have more experience with this stuff than me and I have a very basic understanding of construction being a first year masters student.
Also, I'm not trying to rip off Zumthor. I wanted to study his construction details because the idea I have is *inspired* by the Baths. So I thought it would behoove me to look at the precedent. It was a 24-hour assignment so I thought I'd get a headstart on where to look before the library opened.
Anyway, I looked in all of the journals I could find at our library -- Croquis and Techniques et Architecture both had some construction details, but only for the skylights and roof slabs. Our library doesn't have A+U, unfortunately. Also didn't find any articles in Detail related to the baths.
I am proceeding with my design anyway, which involves custom cut thin blocks from 30mm thick stone slabs, drilled at regular intervals to allow steel reinforcing rods, cement, and masonry ties. Also, the stone blocks will be stacked dry, no mortar, unlike zumthor's baths... like I said, I'm not trying to copy, i'm trying to learn.
Thanks mpsyp - I just chose this building earlier today to study all semester. :D Well, write 3 papers on... now I know more than I did earlier. Yay for intro classes.
Any clue where the A+U extra edition for Zumthor can be found/bought?? it seems as hard to come across as his Works book (for less than the down payment on a new car)
zumthor's stone?
If I were wanting a stone exterior effect similar to Zumthor's thermal baths, what products would I look at? My materials research hasn't turned up anything as thin and compressed... finding lots of ashlar fieldstone, etc.
Thanks,
mpsyp
slate
mpsyp -
according to a video i saw on the baths, all of that stone was quarried locally and cut to zumthor's specifications. it's a pretty rigorous system, documented in an architectural association publication from about 10 years ago, on the baths themselves. i don't think it's that freakishly thin, just looks that way because the pieces are so long.
if you're just scanning most american companies' stock offerings, yeah, it's going to be a nightmare turning up anything good. one of the best stone companies i've run across is: burlington natstone. stuff costs a fortune, but the 'bursting' stone with a flamed finish is unbelievable. it's all english limestone and slates. burlingtonstone.com.
good luck -
the stone, gneiss, is cut to pieces that are about 2 inches tall.
I'd love to see what you come up with...
Very gneiss indeed.
Where would I see a construction detail for stacking slate and/or natural stone like that? I read that Zumthor's walls are actually composite in situ concrete and stone... is it drystacked tightly with a cavity and steel ties? How else could it be done, say in a residential or commercial application where insulation and other interior finishes would be necessary?
Sorry, just learning about this stuff and I"m trying to do some materials research. Thanks!
Marc
Have a look at some of the In Detail books from Detail magazine. If I remember correctly, there is a book on stone with accompanying projects and details. Also have a look at Materia which often has some good stuff.
Is it feasible to take a 1.25" slab and cut it into 4" x 12" blocks, stack them in a rowlock configuration, and tie them to a concrete block backup wythe? How do you reinforce a drystack veneer or, alternatively, make it appear to be drystacked?
Thanks... ;-)
i did a study of the building when in grad school awhile back and found details for most of the building. only thing is i can't recall where.
I think it might have been the german magazine detail , as well as a bit of an american publication for picturesque consumption that also had a few details inserted.
i am sure your school library has the details and the info if you have a look in the stacks.
it IS a concrete structure with the stone a face material only. stone is local and cut in various shapes and finishes according to his design.
i love the finish but am more impressed with the structural sysem and the cantilevered roof slabs that let in the light between the pieces. really brilliant.
I'm actually seeing it only now ...
i love the finishing ... i have to say i does look like slate a lot ..
I LOVE ZUMTHOR!!!
Sorry I just had to let that out...(blushing)
The original stone
We are using Welsh slate on a project in Wales right now. We had two options for hanging our slate. One was to use a carrier system which are similar to masonry ties but they take the weight of the slate tiles (see terracotta tile systems for the basic idea).
The second system (and the one we are using becasue labour is too goddam expensive here), is to have the backs of the tiles drilled out with a special auger, then a small expanding grub connection is inserted and locked in place (these stick out of the back of the tiles). The tiles are then laid in the bottom of a casting bed, a separating layer of polythene is added and then a concrete panel is poured.
Despite how thin the slate looks we are dealing with 40mm thick tiles in either situation. You need the thickness in order to maintain enough 'meat' for the ties in either case.
...of course the QS wanted to use a moulded compressed cement sheet instead. So we killed him.
Happy trails.
The stone is called Vals Quartzite. It is a local stone from Vals, where the baths are. It's unique in that it's sedimentary & metamorphic. So there are these milky sediments that swirl and twist. My firm used it on a corporate pub for Miller Brewing Company and the big cost was shipping it (air freight) to America. The US distributor is Quarra Stone in Madison, WI. The people at Quarra might be able to tell you more about the baths.
mpsyp:
sit back, have a drink. take it easy. let us do your work. big stone details for the baths are in the zumthor a+u extra edition. it ain't rocket surgery to actually look in the books of the projects that you aim to rip off. i can't imagine that your 'materials research' would turn up much if your 'thermal baths' research didn't turn up readily available details. the stone aint that thin.
switters> not trying to get you all to do my work. I appreciate that people have more experience with this stuff than me and I have a very basic understanding of construction being a first year masters student.
Also, I'm not trying to rip off Zumthor. I wanted to study his construction details because the idea I have is *inspired* by the Baths. So I thought it would behoove me to look at the precedent. It was a 24-hour assignment so I thought I'd get a headstart on where to look before the library opened.
Anyway, I looked in all of the journals I could find at our library -- Croquis and Techniques et Architecture both had some construction details, but only for the skylights and roof slabs. Our library doesn't have A+U, unfortunately. Also didn't find any articles in Detail related to the baths.
I am proceeding with my design anyway, which involves custom cut thin blocks from 30mm thick stone slabs, drilled at regular intervals to allow steel reinforcing rods, cement, and masonry ties. Also, the stone blocks will be stacked dry, no mortar, unlike zumthor's baths... like I said, I'm not trying to copy, i'm trying to learn.
Thanks to everybody for the helpful suggestions.
mpsyp
So switters what your saying is that none of your work is referential and or informed by something that has come before it?
The power of archinect and or any tool that allows free flow of infromation is that it levels the playing field.
I can ask a question and a get an answer or suggestion from anywhere in the world instantly about any subject.
I learned something about about a building I love I would not hav otherwise sought out.
Thanks guys...
Thanks mpsyp - I just chose this building earlier today to study all semester. :D Well, write 3 papers on... now I know more than I did earlier. Yay for intro classes.
Any clue where the A+U extra edition for Zumthor can be found/bought?? it seems as hard to come across as his Works book (for less than the down payment on a new car)
impalajunkie, some images of an other hard to find work of his.
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