"Why don't you just explode those blocks? Doesn't that just make things more complicated?"
"why is this an x-ref? Shouldn't we just do all the drawings and text in one place?"
"why can't the computer figure out the elevations by itself?"
"Why do you draw the sections and number then like this?"
GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY DESK AND GO BACK TO SENDING E-MAILS AND MANAGING THE HOURS!!!
If I'm running the drawing set, I'm running the set and I don't need you to be in your office digging through the directory questioning how I've organized the digital files. If you're lucky, I'll let you do the specs, but until that time, leave me alone...
i think there are a couple questions i'd ask before i throw my support
behind you...
1. are you the only one drawing on the project
2. when you're off the project will the organization be as such that
someone will be able to find things easily...
3. does your system help you work efficiently..ie the best way to do
things to make the project run smoothly and not cause delays in
the future..
4. is there nothing you can do better in organizing this set..or anything
you can take constructively from you pm's comments...after all you're
most likely not working CA on this project...so if it's a pain in the
ass overly personal organizational structure that noone else will
understand..then i kind of sympathize..since the pm probably will
be doing CA
5. how large is your firm...small firms i could see this being ok...
large firms..imagine if every person did every project their way...
office standards sometimes are there for a reason and may have
been set up by people either smarter than you or by people who
have more experience and/or have figured out some of the problems.
6. what is your experience level..if it's less than two years i'm not
sure i'd agree with your style...more than five..then ok.
just my 2 cents.
but, if your pm is just an imbecile and hasn't worked the cad in
years and has no idea what he's doing then i sorta empathize..
we've all been there.
2. when you're off the project will the organization be as such that
someone will be able to find things easily...
It is the office standard for how drawings / sheets are organized so that anyone who has worked on a project in the office should have the ability to transition from project to project and know where everything is located.
3. does your system help you work efficiently..ie the best way to do
things to make the project run smoothly and not cause delays in
the future..
Of course!! my system is the bestest!!!
4. is there nothing you can do better in organizing this set..or anything
you can take constructively from you pm's comments...after all you're
most likely not working CA on this project...so if it's a pain in the
ass overly personal organizational structure that noone else will
understand..then i kind of sympathize..since the pm probably will
be doing CA.
I'll be doing the CA on the project. the extent the PM will be doing the CA will be going to the first few meetings, realize he has no idea what's going on then having me go since the rest of the team did the drawings, and will be doing the shops. If I need the PM, I'll call the PM, but PM's always want to stick their noses where they don't need to be because they hate the fact that they're stuck doing e-mail all day and are no longer involved in the creation of the building.
5. how large is your firm...small firms i could see this being ok...
large firms..imagine if every person did every project their way...
office standards sometimes are there for a reason and may have
been set up by people either smarter than you or by people who
have more experience and/or have figured out some of the problems.
It's not that at all. The office has 40 people, there is an office standard although flawed, it works. If he has a problem with the system, then he needs to take it up with the standards committee, but to change the office system on this project because he doesn't like it shouldn't happen, and I'm not going to let it for all of the reasons you mentioned above. If I get moved to another project or other people get moved onto this project they'll be looking at me like, "wtf did curt do to these files??" and that MF will be nowhere to be found.
6. what is your experience level..if it's less than two years i'm not
sure i'd agree with your style...more than five..then ok.
I'm a licensed architect that has been working for over 7 years and have chosen NOT to become a PM because I enjoy doing architecture, solving problems and doing details more than I enjoy sitting in PM meetings about billable hours and money...
i'll put this out there. . . you sound like an ass. now take a deep breath. you might be doing things a certain way, but it's not the only way and certainly not the only correct way and i doubt you're God's gift to drafting. PM's are a vital role in getting projects realized. maybe your office doesn't utilize the position of PM to it's full potential. in my experience, pm's manage people for the good of the project. they manage the client and help mitigate uninformed, ill-informed decisions regarding their projects, the help manage the fees of the office by managing staff and time, they are responsible for information that would otherwise fall to you. since you don't want to be a pm, someone has to do that job. would you rather manage the drafting staff as well as the budget (project cost), fees and staff time, email correspondence, consultants and report deficiencies to the principals also?
and if i were your pm, i WOULD have the balls to fire you. sounds like you're not a team player.
"Why don't you just explode those blocks? Doesn't that just make things more complicated?"
"why is this an x-ref? Shouldn't we just do all the drawings and text in one place?"
"why can't the computer figure out the elevations by itself?"
"Why do you draw the sections and number then like this?"
That sounds like an ignorant PM to me. We've all been there, it sucks. Just ingore him/her b/c obviously those are not constructive comments, and do the project as you know how.
but if the PM is ignorant, he needs to know the answers to those questions, doesn't he? how else will he become un-ignorant?
the questions may be naive but it doesn't sound to me like he's telling curt what to do at all. I think curt was just irritated and felt like his time was being wasted.
in that case i totally hear you...
i don't think you sound like an ass after reading your response..
seems like a case of someone trying to be more important than they
are and just make themselves heard...
and devil dog..if you read what he said he's sayin he does things
to the office standard..the pm is the one that is outta line...
and the more i think about it the funnier the idea of 'elevations
drawing themselves' is... you should ask him why he hasn't made
an auto-email responder that answers all the project questions
correctly...
last time i looked, architecture was a "team sport" ... sounds to me like this particular team's got some serious problems with respect to the allocation of responsiblities and authority
It's not that the PM is ignorant, but if I've been tasked with managing the set and the people to do the set in the shortest amount of time, then I'm going to do that. What irks me is someone who doesn't have their head in the drawings all day every day questioning me and my team and how we're getting the drawings done. He doesn't know anything about CAD, so trying to imply that he does is counterproductive and his suggestions would cost the team valuable time... which would cost hours and money. It's micro-managing at its finest.
I am of the belief that you give everyone responsibility and trust that they are going to get it done.
I agree with whoever said the PM has a valuable role, so stick to that role and do it well. I'll stick to mine and do it well.
last week i was talking with a structural engineer who was explaining why he could not dimensionally locate slab penetrations. for, oh, you know...elevators and stairs.
"well, we got these CAD files from y'all and they weren't to scale so we had to stretch the backgrounds in photoshop and we cain't commit to where y'all's backgrounds are"
pisses me off, especially since my 46- and 70-year-old bosses (yes, 70) are fluent in CAD. people have to roll with the changes in this life or else they can't communicate and lead effectively. we were speaking completely different languages and there was nobody to translate. ultimately the drawings came back, without dimensions, and shit--someone's gonna have to answer that RFI
oh, and I can be an ass!!! But sometimes you have to be in order to maintain a high quality standard and for that I don't min. That sometimes means telling the PM's their CAD suggestions are shitty, they don't like it, but they know at the end of the day, I'm going to make sure the set is going to be tight.
Anyone ever use that software that draws you details from your plans and elevations? What was that called? I seem to remember, while I lived in Columbus, NBBJ laying people off to buy this software. Could have been a rumor.
just take a page out of IT's book. answer your pm's questions with more complicated answers and make answers to subsequent questions more complicated -make stuff up if you have to. you'll exhaust your pm and maybe enjoy it.
To some extent, evil, but the "fixing of walls" and other components is a minor consideration relative to the overall capabilities of the BIM approach. A couple of us in my office are getting the hang of it...it's pretty damned impressive.
wouldn't a PM have to know something about CAD etc in order to estimate billable hours?
I don't see how a PM can afford to be divorced from the architect's role. If he's responsible to the principal to see that the work gets done on time and to standard, how can he be so cut off from the process?
before anyone jumps on me, i agree he shouldn't interfere, but he's got to be able to see that the work is getting done right? not everyone is as self-sufficient as curt??
anybody out there who is a PM? what do you do and how do you do it?
organizations create specialized jobs for a variety of very good reasons - however, this division of responsibility and authority requires interactions and coordination that often creates the type of tension that curtclay describes above ...
curt, you may want to look into finding and absorbing some guidance along these lines:
nice to see that you offer great advice with your links.
you might as well suggest that people put on a sheep costume, roll over like a bitch and kiss the bosses ass.
one of those links has a link to what may be the funniest and saddest advice for "workers:"
Chapter 78 of the book Self-Help Stuff That Works by Adam Khan:
The Samurai Effect
YEARS AGO I READ the book Shogun, by James Clavell, about the Japanese samurai (professional warriors). A samurai gave total allegiance to his liege lord and would die for him without question. The whole system was filled with honor and loyalty and was very beautiful in that respect.
While reading the book, I started treating my boss like my liege lord. What a difference it made! My attitude toward my boss changed and my boss’s attitude toward me changed dramatically. The working relationship became smoother, more friendly and more efficient. I did everything my boss asked me to do, to the best of my ability and without question. Of course, if my boss asked me to jump off a bridge, I wouldn’t have, but usually bosses don’t ask employees to do anything but their jobs.
I’ve often seen a different kind of attitude in the workplace, however, and I’m sure you’ve seen it too. It can be stated as “I’m not going to kiss anyone’s ass!†This attitude is characterized by arguing with the boss when asked to do something or trying to get away with not doing it very well. These people, even more than the rest of us, don’t like being told what to do, and actively resist it, which forces the boss to bear down to maintain control, turning the working relationship into an unnecessarily antagonistic contest of wills.
I’ve worked with people who got along great with everyone except the boss. And I’ve worked in places where I had a great boss, but my coworkers had a supreme jerk for a boss — and it was the same person. My “samurai†attitude had changed my boss for me.
In a way, your attitude toward a person creates that person. Interact with someone with a chip on your shoulder and the person will usually respond defensively. Approach someone with friendliness and cooperation and the person is likely to respond in kind. We play a part in creating the way someone treats us.
Do you want to stand out? Treat your boss like a liege lord and do what she or he asks you to do — cheerfully, without question, and to the best of your ability — and you will stand out. In your boss’s mind, you will contrast sharply with the people who don’t want to be told what to do. And it’ll be more enjoyable for you to be at work.
Create a boss you enjoy working with. In actual behavior, the difference isn’t much. You won’t be any more tired or worn out by it. But you and your organization will be better off when you adopt a samurai attitude.
-- once again you manage to prove that, after processing a post through your own personal filter, you have your head firmly up your ass
curtclay has a choice - he a) can put up with what's going on in his office and continue to be unhappy and hostile; or b) he can leave (i.e. run away) and work for himself or some other supervisor who he's likely to find equally unacceptable; or c) he can look for ways to identify common ground with this, or any other, project manager and resolve the issues so they can work together productively
managing interpersonal relationships is one of the most challenging aspects of working in a firm -- while i would never recommend "pucker up" to anybody (any more than i would recommend "putting on a sheep costume, rolling over like a bitch and kissing the bosses ass") i do think you have to remember that we don't live in a perfect work populated by perfect people -- while the links i posted may not be the best available on the web, they do address the idea that relationships must be managed proactively -- you can stand back and rail against the wind, hoping things will improve, or you can make some effort to actually solve the problem
if you don't like the links i posted, you are free to post some of your own -- if you're going to criticize, at least make some effort to be constructive
Ok, so there is this guy in my office who seems to have some kind of disorder where he has to disobey authority. I ask him to update me on his work load every Monday. He doesn't do it. I point out that he hasn't done it. He updates me on Tuesdays for a couple of weeks. Then stops doing it again a few weeks later. I tell him the thing he is working on needs to be done Wednesday. He doesn't get it done then, doesn't tell me he isn't going to get it done, even though he had time, because he decided to work on other things, even though this thing had a deadline. Four of us are going to a meeting. He drives separately, I remind him the rest of us are leaving, he says he will leave in a minute. He is 10 minutes late to the meeting. After the meeting, I ask him to write up minutes and review them with me before he send them out the next day. At the meeting, we all agree we will send the minutes out the next day. At the end of the next day, I ask him about the minutes. He hasn't started them- he worked on something not due for two weeks. His work is good, but he is really slow, and the not listening to my directions makes me crazy. Should I fire him, or am I missing something and I should be communicating with him in a different way? I hat to micromanage, but is that what this guy needs?
archie, i hear ya' man. it seems some folks just are not cut out to be functioning, contributing parts of organizations of any size -- unless, of course, you just let them do whatever they want to do, any way they want to do it, and then you and others get to pick up all the slack on the things they don't want to do -- oh, and, of course, they'll probably want to be paid big bucks so you can have the priveledge of working with them
we architects tend to put up with bullshit from the people we hire because we're often very nice people and we tend to be non-confrontational. i say sit down with this guy, be very clear with him about a) what you hired him to do and b) how well he's actually doing. tell him you're not happy with how he's doing his job and specify the changes you want made. tell him if he's not prepared to work with you on this, then he's probably going to be much happier somewhere else; but if he wants to stay, then he needs to shape up. indicate that you're willing to work with him on this, but give him a deadline for improvement
he'll probably think your a hard-assed jerk -- don't let that bother you -- he's keeping you from doing your own job.
archie -- you have on your hands a classic case of passive-aggressive disorder. this person needs you/his job and resents you for it. but he is too chicken-shit to confront you directly and/or do something about their need for you. so all of the above behaviors.
"*FEAR OF DEPENDENCY - Unsure of his autonomy & afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs - usually by trying to control you.
*FEAR OF INTIMACY - Guarded & often mistrusful, he is reluctant to show his emotional fragility. He's often out of touch with his feelings, reflexively denying feelings he thinks will "trap" or reveal him, like love. He picks fights to create distance.
*FEAR OF COMPETITION - Feeling inadequate, he is unable to compete with other men in work and love. He may operate either as a self-sabotaging wimp with a pattern of failure, or he'll be the tyrant, setting himself up as unassailable and perfect, needing to eliminate any threat to his power.
*OBSTRUCTIONISM - Just tell a p/a man what you want, no matter how small, and he may promise to get it for you. But he won't say when, and he"ll do it deliberately slowly just to frustrate you. Maybe he won't comply at all. He blocks any real progress he sees to your getting your way.
*FOSTERING CHAOS - The p/a man prefers to leave the puzzle incomplete, the job undone.
*FEELING VICTIMIZED - The p/a man protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds. To remain above reporach, he sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.
*MAKING EXCUSES & LYING - The p/a man reaches as far as he can to fabricate excuses for not fulfilling promises. As a way of withholding information, affirmation or love - to have power over you - the p/a man may choose to make up a story rather than give you a straight answer.
*PROCRASTINATION - The p/a man has an odd sense of time - he believes that deadlines don't exist for him.
*CHRONIC LATENESS & FORGETFULNESS - One of the most infuriating & inconsiderate of all p/a traits is his inability to arrive on time. By keeping you waiting, he sets the ground rules of the relationship. And his selective forgetting - used only when he wants to avoid an obligation.
*AMBIGUITY - He is master of mixed messages and sitting on fences. When he tells you something, you may still walk away wondering if he actually said yes or no.
*SULKING - Feeling put upon when he is unable to live up to his promises or obligations, the p/a man retreats from pressures around him and sulks, pouts and withdraws.
A passive-aggressive man won't have every single one of these traits, but he'll have many of them. He may have other traits as well, which are not passive-aggressive."
there are only two ways to confront this person. one, to show him how his actions hurt NOBODY BUT HIMSELF. this means don't come to him with how his actions are hurting you -- that's what he WANTS subconsciously. tell him that someone else could do his job -- and frankly, better -- and the only reason you're keeping him on is that his position is so inconsequential that it's not worth the lawyers and the paperwork to fire him. see, the PA subconsciously wants to be in an important place so that he can be a hold-up in the system. you make him realize he's just writing his own pink slip, maybe you'll get some traction.
or you could just fire him for insubordination and poor performance.
from now on, I refuse to talk CAD with PM's
"Why don't you just explode those blocks? Doesn't that just make things more complicated?"
"why is this an x-ref? Shouldn't we just do all the drawings and text in one place?"
"why can't the computer figure out the elevations by itself?"
"Why do you draw the sections and number then like this?"
GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY DESK AND GO BACK TO SENDING E-MAILS AND MANAGING THE HOURS!!!
If I'm running the drawing set, I'm running the set and I don't need you to be in your office digging through the directory questioning how I've organized the digital files. If you're lucky, I'll let you do the specs, but until that time, leave me alone...
Deep breath....deep breath...you have our support here...this is your happy place...deep breath....
I don't even know what an x-ref is.
today I am doing cad, somrthing I ahvent done for about 3 months now.... It's incredible how if you dont use it you lose it.... back to plans!!!
curtclay, hold on tight one day youll be the PM breathing down somone's neck.
i think there are a couple questions i'd ask before i throw my support
behind you...
1. are you the only one drawing on the project
2. when you're off the project will the organization be as such that
someone will be able to find things easily...
3. does your system help you work efficiently..ie the best way to do
things to make the project run smoothly and not cause delays in
the future..
4. is there nothing you can do better in organizing this set..or anything
you can take constructively from you pm's comments...after all you're
most likely not working CA on this project...so if it's a pain in the
ass overly personal organizational structure that noone else will
understand..then i kind of sympathize..since the pm probably will
be doing CA
5. how large is your firm...small firms i could see this being ok...
large firms..imagine if every person did every project their way...
office standards sometimes are there for a reason and may have
been set up by people either smarter than you or by people who
have more experience and/or have figured out some of the problems.
6. what is your experience level..if it's less than two years i'm not
sure i'd agree with your style...more than five..then ok.
just my 2 cents.
but, if your pm is just an imbecile and hasn't worked the cad in
years and has no idea what he's doing then i sorta empathize..
we've all been there.
hahaha...oh shit...lb's dope...
lb, you rock.
Curt, why doesn't your CAD figure the elevation out by itself? I am confused. I just talk into the mic and my drawings do themselves.
lars,
1.. are you the only one drawing on the project?
No, I'm running a team of 2 other draftspeople
2. when you're off the project will the organization be as such that
someone will be able to find things easily...
It is the office standard for how drawings / sheets are organized so that anyone who has worked on a project in the office should have the ability to transition from project to project and know where everything is located.
3. does your system help you work efficiently..ie the best way to do
things to make the project run smoothly and not cause delays in
the future..
Of course!! my system is the bestest!!!
4. is there nothing you can do better in organizing this set..or anything
you can take constructively from you pm's comments...after all you're
most likely not working CA on this project...so if it's a pain in the
ass overly personal organizational structure that noone else will
understand..then i kind of sympathize..since the pm probably will
be doing CA.
I'll be doing the CA on the project. the extent the PM will be doing the CA will be going to the first few meetings, realize he has no idea what's going on then having me go since the rest of the team did the drawings, and will be doing the shops. If I need the PM, I'll call the PM, but PM's always want to stick their noses where they don't need to be because they hate the fact that they're stuck doing e-mail all day and are no longer involved in the creation of the building.
5. how large is your firm...small firms i could see this being ok...
large firms..imagine if every person did every project their way...
office standards sometimes are there for a reason and may have
been set up by people either smarter than you or by people who
have more experience and/or have figured out some of the problems.
It's not that at all. The office has 40 people, there is an office standard although flawed, it works. If he has a problem with the system, then he needs to take it up with the standards committee, but to change the office system on this project because he doesn't like it shouldn't happen, and I'm not going to let it for all of the reasons you mentioned above. If I get moved to another project or other people get moved onto this project they'll be looking at me like, "wtf did curt do to these files??" and that MF will be nowhere to be found.
6. what is your experience level..if it's less than two years i'm not
sure i'd agree with your style...more than five..then ok.
I'm a licensed architect that has been working for over 7 years and have chosen NOT to become a PM because I enjoy doing architecture, solving problems and doing details more than I enjoy sitting in PM meetings about billable hours and money...
j, if you were my pm, you wouldn't have the balls to fire me.
acad standards committee -yuck
curtclay,
i'll put this out there. . . you sound like an ass. now take a deep breath. you might be doing things a certain way, but it's not the only way and certainly not the only correct way and i doubt you're God's gift to drafting. PM's are a vital role in getting projects realized. maybe your office doesn't utilize the position of PM to it's full potential. in my experience, pm's manage people for the good of the project. they manage the client and help mitigate uninformed, ill-informed decisions regarding their projects, the help manage the fees of the office by managing staff and time, they are responsible for information that would otherwise fall to you. since you don't want to be a pm, someone has to do that job. would you rather manage the drafting staff as well as the budget (project cost), fees and staff time, email correspondence, consultants and report deficiencies to the principals also?
and if i were your pm, i WOULD have the balls to fire you. sounds like you're not a team player.
You guys don't know anything about curt,
Read again what he wrote:
"Why don't you just explode those blocks? Doesn't that just make things more complicated?"
"why is this an x-ref? Shouldn't we just do all the drawings and text in one place?"
"why can't the computer figure out the elevations by itself?"
"Why do you draw the sections and number then like this?"
That sounds like an ignorant PM to me. We've all been there, it sucks. Just ingore him/her b/c obviously those are not constructive comments, and do the project as you know how.
Now explode them blocks, I tell you, expode them!
but if the PM is ignorant, he needs to know the answers to those questions, doesn't he? how else will he become un-ignorant?
the questions may be naive but it doesn't sound to me like he's telling curt what to do at all. I think curt was just irritated and felt like his time was being wasted.
curtclay...
in that case i totally hear you...
i don't think you sound like an ass after reading your response..
seems like a case of someone trying to be more important than they
are and just make themselves heard...
and devil dog..if you read what he said he's sayin he does things
to the office standard..the pm is the one that is outta line...
and the more i think about it the funnier the idea of 'elevations
drawing themselves' is... you should ask him why he hasn't made
an auto-email responder that answers all the project questions
correctly...
lars, that last part is great...
last time i looked, architecture was a "team sport" ... sounds to me like this particular team's got some serious problems with respect to the allocation of responsiblities and authority
It's not that the PM is ignorant, but if I've been tasked with managing the set and the people to do the set in the shortest amount of time, then I'm going to do that. What irks me is someone who doesn't have their head in the drawings all day every day questioning me and my team and how we're getting the drawings done. He doesn't know anything about CAD, so trying to imply that he does is counterproductive and his suggestions would cost the team valuable time... which would cost hours and money. It's micro-managing at its finest.
I am of the belief that you give everyone responsibility and trust that they are going to get it done.
I agree with whoever said the PM has a valuable role, so stick to that role and do it well. I'll stick to mine and do it well.
ok, lunch time is over... :)
last week i was talking with a structural engineer who was explaining why he could not dimensionally locate slab penetrations. for, oh, you know...elevators and stairs.
"well, we got these CAD files from y'all and they weren't to scale so we had to stretch the backgrounds in photoshop and we cain't commit to where y'all's backgrounds are"
pisses me off, especially since my 46- and 70-year-old bosses (yes, 70) are fluent in CAD. people have to roll with the changes in this life or else they can't communicate and lead effectively. we were speaking completely different languages and there was nobody to translate. ultimately the drawings came back, without dimensions, and shit--someone's gonna have to answer that RFI
oh, and I can be an ass!!! But sometimes you have to be in order to maintain a high quality standard and for that I don't min. That sometimes means telling the PM's their CAD suggestions are shitty, they don't like it, but they know at the end of the day, I'm going to make sure the set is going to be tight.
DON'T FU*K WITH MY SET BIT@@ES!!!!!!
Anyone ever use that software that draws you details from your plans and elevations? What was that called? I seem to remember, while I lived in Columbus, NBBJ laying people off to buy this software. Could have been a rumor.
can't we all just get along ?
BIM. Building Information Modeling Software, Archicad, Revit, Desktop to name a few - Walls draw themselves. But then you have to go in and fix them.
BIM. Building Information Modeling Software, Archicad, Revit, Desktop to name a few - Walls draw themselves. But then you have to go in and fix them.
just take a page out of IT's book. answer your pm's questions with more complicated answers and make answers to subsequent questions more complicated -make stuff up if you have to. you'll exhaust your pm and maybe enjoy it.
To some extent, evil, but the "fixing of walls" and other components is a minor consideration relative to the overall capabilities of the BIM approach. A couple of us in my office are getting the hang of it...it's pretty damned impressive.
-- A round of BIM for the house...
wouldn't a PM have to know something about CAD etc in order to estimate billable hours?
I don't see how a PM can afford to be divorced from the architect's role. If he's responsible to the principal to see that the work gets done on time and to standard, how can he be so cut off from the process?
before anyone jumps on me, i agree he shouldn't interfere, but he's got to be able to see that the work is getting done right? not everyone is as self-sufficient as curt??
anybody out there who is a PM? what do you do and how do you do it?
just answer the pm's questions to get him off your back...
organizations create specialized jobs for a variety of very good reasons - however, this division of responsibility and authority requires interactions and coordination that often creates the type of tension that curtclay describes above ...
curt, you may want to look into finding and absorbing some guidance along these lines:
Managing Your Boss, or
Dealing With Bad, Ineffective Managers and Bosses
Comb,
nice to see that you offer great advice with your links.
you might as well suggest that people put on a sheep costume, roll over like a bitch and kiss the bosses ass.
one of those links has a link to what may be the funniest and saddest advice for "workers:"
pucker up
Chapter 78 of the book Self-Help Stuff That Works by Adam Khan:
The Samurai Effect
YEARS AGO I READ the book Shogun, by James Clavell, about the Japanese samurai (professional warriors). A samurai gave total allegiance to his liege lord and would die for him without question. The whole system was filled with honor and loyalty and was very beautiful in that respect.
While reading the book, I started treating my boss like my liege lord. What a difference it made! My attitude toward my boss changed and my boss’s attitude toward me changed dramatically. The working relationship became smoother, more friendly and more efficient. I did everything my boss asked me to do, to the best of my ability and without question. Of course, if my boss asked me to jump off a bridge, I wouldn’t have, but usually bosses don’t ask employees to do anything but their jobs.
I’ve often seen a different kind of attitude in the workplace, however, and I’m sure you’ve seen it too. It can be stated as “I’m not going to kiss anyone’s ass!†This attitude is characterized by arguing with the boss when asked to do something or trying to get away with not doing it very well. These people, even more than the rest of us, don’t like being told what to do, and actively resist it, which forces the boss to bear down to maintain control, turning the working relationship into an unnecessarily antagonistic contest of wills.
I’ve worked with people who got along great with everyone except the boss. And I’ve worked in places where I had a great boss, but my coworkers had a supreme jerk for a boss — and it was the same person. My “samurai†attitude had changed my boss for me.
In a way, your attitude toward a person creates that person. Interact with someone with a chip on your shoulder and the person will usually respond defensively. Approach someone with friendliness and cooperation and the person is likely to respond in kind. We play a part in creating the way someone treats us.
Do you want to stand out? Treat your boss like a liege lord and do what she or he asks you to do — cheerfully, without question, and to the best of your ability — and you will stand out. In your boss’s mind, you will contrast sharply with the people who don’t want to be told what to do. And it’ll be more enjoyable for you to be at work.
Create a boss you enjoy working with. In actual behavior, the difference isn’t much. You won’t be any more tired or worn out by it. But you and your organization will be better off when you adopt a samurai attitude.
Treat your boss like a liege lord.
curtclay,
I am your Project Manager...and you are fired.
-- once again you manage to prove that, after processing a post through your own personal filter, you have your head firmly up your ass
curtclay has a choice - he a) can put up with what's going on in his office and continue to be unhappy and hostile; or b) he can leave (i.e. run away) and work for himself or some other supervisor who he's likely to find equally unacceptable; or c) he can look for ways to identify common ground with this, or any other, project manager and resolve the issues so they can work together productively
managing interpersonal relationships is one of the most challenging aspects of working in a firm -- while i would never recommend "pucker up" to anybody (any more than i would recommend "putting on a sheep costume, rolling over like a bitch and kissing the bosses ass") i do think you have to remember that we don't live in a perfect work populated by perfect people -- while the links i posted may not be the best available on the web, they do address the idea that relationships must be managed proactively -- you can stand back and rail against the wind, hoping things will improve, or you can make some effort to actually solve the problem
if you don't like the links i posted, you are free to post some of your own -- if you're going to criticize, at least make some effort to be constructive
Ok, so there is this guy in my office who seems to have some kind of disorder where he has to disobey authority. I ask him to update me on his work load every Monday. He doesn't do it. I point out that he hasn't done it. He updates me on Tuesdays for a couple of weeks. Then stops doing it again a few weeks later. I tell him the thing he is working on needs to be done Wednesday. He doesn't get it done then, doesn't tell me he isn't going to get it done, even though he had time, because he decided to work on other things, even though this thing had a deadline. Four of us are going to a meeting. He drives separately, I remind him the rest of us are leaving, he says he will leave in a minute. He is 10 minutes late to the meeting. After the meeting, I ask him to write up minutes and review them with me before he send them out the next day. At the meeting, we all agree we will send the minutes out the next day. At the end of the next day, I ask him about the minutes. He hasn't started them- he worked on something not due for two weeks. His work is good, but he is really slow, and the not listening to my directions makes me crazy. Should I fire him, or am I missing something and I should be communicating with him in a different way? I hat to micromanage, but is that what this guy needs?
archie, i hear ya' man. it seems some folks just are not cut out to be functioning, contributing parts of organizations of any size -- unless, of course, you just let them do whatever they want to do, any way they want to do it, and then you and others get to pick up all the slack on the things they don't want to do -- oh, and, of course, they'll probably want to be paid big bucks so you can have the priveledge of working with them
we architects tend to put up with bullshit from the people we hire because we're often very nice people and we tend to be non-confrontational. i say sit down with this guy, be very clear with him about a) what you hired him to do and b) how well he's actually doing. tell him you're not happy with how he's doing his job and specify the changes you want made. tell him if he's not prepared to work with you on this, then he's probably going to be much happier somewhere else; but if he wants to stay, then he needs to shape up. indicate that you're willing to work with him on this, but give him a deadline for improvement
he'll probably think your a hard-assed jerk -- don't let that bother you -- he's keeping you from doing your own job.
archie -- you have on your hands a classic case of passive-aggressive disorder. this person needs you/his job and resents you for it. but he is too chicken-shit to confront you directly and/or do something about their need for you. so all of the above behaviors.
"*FEAR OF DEPENDENCY - Unsure of his autonomy & afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs - usually by trying to control you.
*FEAR OF INTIMACY - Guarded & often mistrusful, he is reluctant to show his emotional fragility. He's often out of touch with his feelings, reflexively denying feelings he thinks will "trap" or reveal him, like love. He picks fights to create distance.
*FEAR OF COMPETITION - Feeling inadequate, he is unable to compete with other men in work and love. He may operate either as a self-sabotaging wimp with a pattern of failure, or he'll be the tyrant, setting himself up as unassailable and perfect, needing to eliminate any threat to his power.
*OBSTRUCTIONISM - Just tell a p/a man what you want, no matter how small, and he may promise to get it for you. But he won't say when, and he"ll do it deliberately slowly just to frustrate you. Maybe he won't comply at all. He blocks any real progress he sees to your getting your way.
*FOSTERING CHAOS - The p/a man prefers to leave the puzzle incomplete, the job undone.
*FEELING VICTIMIZED - The p/a man protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds. To remain above reporach, he sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.
*MAKING EXCUSES & LYING - The p/a man reaches as far as he can to fabricate excuses for not fulfilling promises. As a way of withholding information, affirmation or love - to have power over you - the p/a man may choose to make up a story rather than give you a straight answer.
*PROCRASTINATION - The p/a man has an odd sense of time - he believes that deadlines don't exist for him.
*CHRONIC LATENESS & FORGETFULNESS - One of the most infuriating & inconsiderate of all p/a traits is his inability to arrive on time. By keeping you waiting, he sets the ground rules of the relationship. And his selective forgetting - used only when he wants to avoid an obligation.
*AMBIGUITY - He is master of mixed messages and sitting on fences. When he tells you something, you may still walk away wondering if he actually said yes or no.
*SULKING - Feeling put upon when he is unable to live up to his promises or obligations, the p/a man retreats from pressures around him and sulks, pouts and withdraws.
A passive-aggressive man won't have every single one of these traits, but he'll have many of them. He may have other traits as well, which are not passive-aggressive."
there are only two ways to confront this person. one, to show him how his actions hurt NOBODY BUT HIMSELF. this means don't come to him with how his actions are hurting you -- that's what he WANTS subconsciously. tell him that someone else could do his job -- and frankly, better -- and the only reason you're keeping him on is that his position is so inconsequential that it's not worth the lawyers and the paperwork to fire him. see, the PA subconsciously wants to be in an important place so that he can be a hold-up in the system. you make him realize he's just writing his own pink slip, maybe you'll get some traction.
or you could just fire him for insubordination and poor performance.
update:
Mr. PM resigned today.........
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