I am currently visiting Lisbon and happened to make it over to calatrava's oriente station. there are two "calatravian" foot bridges that connect this station to an americanized mall and hotel/condo complex across aveneda d. joao. while taking photographs, i attempted to cross these foot bridges from the station, but was confronted by what appeared to be maintenance barricades. later, on the mall side, while getting another vantage point (this end taped off) - a security guard approached and told me that i was not supposed to be out on the terrace (where the bridge connects to the mall). i then asked him why i could not cross the bridges - why they were blocked off and he replied that they were unstable. do any of you know any more about these foot bridges and their "instability?"
I think we are seeing the begining of what will be obvious in a hundred years . That our postmodern monuments and declarations last only a few years ,that our modern houses are made to last 30 years and the quality of expression are likewise restricted ; we lost the quality the meaning the reason. Icons rather than quality houses, high-tech lookalike covering the sad craftmanship and expensive materials that the architects forgot to master , and then these bridges.
Don't they just show it all, how it is not enough to acturly make a bridge no, it have to "look" like something it is not, and they are everywhere starting with London this manifest of hightech lookalike made mainly to be put into architect magazins and _allway's placed at the wrong and most silli place --- but don't give up ,they will not last longer than the quality and thought put into it, they are all for some wierd reson "fighting on the edge of what is possible" instead of widening the options of engineering , each special fitting cost more than a family car ; now do you still think postmodernism in a hundred years will be described as innovative and visionary ?
Now this is what I prefere rather than trend architecture bridges;
It is a way cheaper more flexible solution ,more thought thru solution than a passenger bridge allowing only travel in carm weather crossing a freezing harbour in way to long distance, na than rather a perfect new ballast system that steady the structure as a rock, make a trafic solution at a third the cost four times longer lasting being made in steel.
It is the water that carry the expenses --- can you make a ships hull stabil as a rock ,able to reverse follow the tide , this is the cheapest most flexible solution compared a to small wrong placed impossible to use in fact risky thing.
Also as mentioned the 3D-H system compare as only building method anything else will be silli, atleast cost way more instead of just doing it in plain steel sheet.
Beside way cheaper to acturly build ,being a ships hull not an expensive bridge , it will offer wider options, Barge brideges as small islands manouvered by satelite would produce several solutions as how you place bridges in a harbour where this will work perfect, many more side effects come out of that, beside some true new methods.
No I am just here to promote some new architecture --- that's been the job of artists for allway's ; but you maby don't know, you are just here to be the one out of a 100, to whipe up the sadest human response ?
That's your role this is mine.
and guess what I made it ;)) --------- sorry to take it into humor if you also hate me for this, you are realy far out, far out the wrong side.
But _yes_ I would like to "irritate" as you call it ; remember what I do must be fully reasoable ; to question ,even color with my own examples ,isn't that fully alovable in midern arts ??? You see it as provoking well, would you expect a new architecture new way's to produce not to be provoking, ------- Can't I be provoked by the lame sad artists of today ,when I do something you can only shoot down with social harasment and silli academic tolerence ?
Guess you rather have a slick bad guy talking honey ( you know the type) than an honest one ( rare but there ) expecting honesty, you get what you pay but when you go hount creativity and act with a hero's mind, raise book burning instinkts ,don't expect this to be a glorious event.
I wouldn't jump into conclusion like that, Per Corell. We all know that there are a lot of copy-cat/high-tech look-a-likes out there, but also there are many structures that are marble of engineering technology of our time. Sure, they tend to be super-expensive, but they are designed to offer better environment for their users, maximize capability of the material, and be eco-friendly. You could be right that in a century, most of those structures might not survive, but few will survive; but that's the way it is... you don't see Greek temples everywhere in Greece, and you won't find old Chinese houses everywhere in China. Plus, all structures, including bridges, require some kinds of scheduled maintenance. It seems like we don't really know what was going on that Calatrava's bridge, so we shouldn't jump into the conclusion that that structure has some issues.
I don't have any problem with trying new building materials; somebody has got to try first, right? Any kinds of building material has to go thru "trial & error" to achive its perfection, just like brick, concrete, steel, glass, plastic, and whatever materials that will come.
BTW, I would like to know how your bridge will accomodate its fluctuating water level, Per Corell. Army Corps have somewhat similar temporary bridges to cross channel, but they are, afterall, temporary. Top of that, its thermal expansion will be significant, and extruding the steel (or alumimun, whatever it is made out of) will be quite tricky, too. You might have to use high-tech expansion joint for that.
per, the renderings are getting a whole lot sexier!
what are you using nowadays?
the bridge would snap in half, as it has no side stabilyzation.the footing should be larger than the road
or, just as a boat which has exactly the same cross section, the bridge would rock from side to side, and as the movement becomes a-syncronized between the two ends, the thing would twist on its longitudinal axis and fail.
have a look at the michael stacy-edited issue of AD on component fabrication...
I hope you all are ready for a real even small design invention, acturly without knowing it fishing vessel builders used the trick for small fishing boats a decade ago and the concept maby are so special, that it is forgotten, but here it come ; it is a system that as a catemaran are much more stable it also is double stable as rocking the boat, mean an instant resistant force caused by a simple design trick, sorry to complicated even quite simple to explain in short but it work.
The Bargebridge are just a challance towerds tradisional thinking -- true naval engineering do float pontoon bridges but these are not flexible cheap build vessels but clumpsy heavy and expensive structures not fit for easy maintaince as a propelled barge are.
Ballast system make it follow the tide simple as that, but another set of water compartments add either floatation or ballast and some ( the first mentioned, will add weight as how a cup get heavy when bottom up, hoised up the water -- that stabilise when placed the right places.
Anyway what is expensive about a bridge is what is used holding all this steel in the air ; here the cheap water do all that at low cost, all you need to add is a bit satelite navigating for the motors or ancors to keep the thing in place and a small switch to pump in or out the water from the ballast tanks, to make it follow the tide.
Why bridges became so specialised and why engineering became more important than comford I can't answer I just make my best bid.
Anyway a float bridge based on square floatation boxes can not be compared with this barge bridge, the barge bridge are two maby more individual vessels that in a flexible way, can act as a bridge, different places at different times --- and they will never be wrong placed.
Beside you can allway's place a resturant on top.
Bigness emagine two glasses halve filled with water ,put into the water and upside down connected with a beam ---- now if there are a rigid whole , a beam with a cylinder at each end with top covered tight and halve full of water, what will happen if you try force one side down ?
ans ; one side will resist while a volume are tried forced down into the water, and the other side will resist as you with vaccum try "lift" water out the ocean.
--------- Now a steel barge proberly well maitained will last atleast 60 years , wouldn't a cheap ships hull be much more profitable in the long terms, than a trend bridge that next year show to be either to small or wrong placed . Offcaurse it will not work everywhere but there be a lot of places it will , much cheaper much more flexible.
-------- wile i aprishiate per correll´s ideaz, i looking for more informasions speciafically on calatrava bridges in the lisbon. anyones have somfin besides pritty pitures and the theeries?
Dec 5, 05 1:18 pm ·
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shouldn't buildings and bridges work (fundamentally)?
I am currently visiting Lisbon and happened to make it over to calatrava's oriente station. there are two "calatravian" foot bridges that connect this station to an americanized mall and hotel/condo complex across aveneda d. joao. while taking photographs, i attempted to cross these foot bridges from the station, but was confronted by what appeared to be maintenance barricades. later, on the mall side, while getting another vantage point (this end taped off) - a security guard approached and told me that i was not supposed to be out on the terrace (where the bridge connects to the mall). i then asked him why i could not cross the bridges - why they were blocked off and he replied that they were unstable. do any of you know any more about these foot bridges and their "instability?"
Hi
I think we are seeing the begining of what will be obvious in a hundred years . That our postmodern monuments and declarations last only a few years ,that our modern houses are made to last 30 years and the quality of expression are likewise restricted ; we lost the quality the meaning the reason. Icons rather than quality houses, high-tech lookalike covering the sad craftmanship and expensive materials that the architects forgot to master , and then these bridges.
Don't they just show it all, how it is not enough to acturly make a bridge no, it have to "look" like something it is not, and they are everywhere starting with London this manifest of hightech lookalike made mainly to be put into architect magazins and _allway's placed at the wrong and most silli place --- but don't give up ,they will not last longer than the quality and thought put into it, they are all for some wierd reson "fighting on the edge of what is possible" instead of widening the options of engineering , each special fitting cost more than a family car ; now do you still think postmodernism in a hundred years will be described as innovative and visionary ?
Now this is what I prefere rather than trend architecture bridges;
It is a way cheaper more flexible solution ,more thought thru solution than a passenger bridge allowing only travel in carm weather crossing a freezing harbour in way to long distance, na than rather a perfect new ballast system that steady the structure as a rock, make a trafic solution at a third the cost four times longer lasting being made in steel.
It is the water that carry the expenses --- can you make a ships hull stabil as a rock ,able to reverse follow the tide , this is the cheapest most flexible solution compared a to small wrong placed impossible to use in fact risky thing.
Also as mentioned the 3D-H system compare as only building method anything else will be silli, atleast cost way more instead of just doing it in plain steel sheet.
Beside way cheaper to acturly build ,being a ships hull not an expensive bridge , it will offer wider options, Barge brideges as small islands manouvered by satelite would produce several solutions as how you place bridges in a harbour where this will work perfect, many more side effects come out of that, beside some true new methods.
made in Steel sheet .
Who would doubt this to be a new architecture .
that settles it: Per is just messing with us to see who he can irritate the most.
No I am just here to promote some new architecture --- that's been the job of artists for allway's ; but you maby don't know, you are just here to be the one out of a 100, to whipe up the sadest human response ?
That's your role this is mine.
and guess what I made it ;)) --------- sorry to take it into humor if you also hate me for this, you are realy far out, far out the wrong side.
But _yes_ I would like to "irritate" as you call it ; remember what I do must be fully reasoable ; to question ,even color with my own examples ,isn't that fully alovable in midern arts ??? You see it as provoking well, would you expect a new architecture new way's to produce not to be provoking, ------- Can't I be provoked by the lame sad artists of today ,when I do something you can only shoot down with social harasment and silli academic tolerence ?
Guess you rather have a slick bad guy talking honey ( you know the type) than an honest one ( rare but there ) expecting honesty, you get what you pay but when you go hount creativity and act with a hero's mind, raise book burning instinkts ,don't expect this to be a glorious event.
no, I don't hate you.
I just don't think it's even remotely possible that any of this is serious.
tomato, tamoto.
carry on.
Damned ... The wrong bite...
Sorry --- what architecture realy need is humor. Realy.
I wouldn't jump into conclusion like that, Per Corell. We all know that there are a lot of copy-cat/high-tech look-a-likes out there, but also there are many structures that are marble of engineering technology of our time. Sure, they tend to be super-expensive, but they are designed to offer better environment for their users, maximize capability of the material, and be eco-friendly. You could be right that in a century, most of those structures might not survive, but few will survive; but that's the way it is... you don't see Greek temples everywhere in Greece, and you won't find old Chinese houses everywhere in China. Plus, all structures, including bridges, require some kinds of scheduled maintenance. It seems like we don't really know what was going on that Calatrava's bridge, so we shouldn't jump into the conclusion that that structure has some issues.
I don't have any problem with trying new building materials; somebody has got to try first, right? Any kinds of building material has to go thru "trial & error" to achive its perfection, just like brick, concrete, steel, glass, plastic, and whatever materials that will come.
BTW, I would like to know how your bridge will accomodate its fluctuating water level, Per Corell. Army Corps have somewhat similar temporary bridges to cross channel, but they are, afterall, temporary. Top of that, its thermal expansion will be significant, and extruding the steel (or alumimun, whatever it is made out of) will be quite tricky, too. You might have to use high-tech expansion joint for that.
per, the renderings are getting a whole lot sexier!
what are you using nowadays?
the bridge would snap in half, as it has no side stabilyzation.the footing should be larger than the road
or, just as a boat which has exactly the same cross section, the bridge would rock from side to side, and as the movement becomes a-syncronized between the two ends, the thing would twist on its longitudinal axis and fail.
have a look at the michael stacy-edited issue of AD on component fabrication...
but why am i telling you this? i don't know!
Hi
I hope you all are ready for a real even small design invention, acturly without knowing it fishing vessel builders used the trick for small fishing boats a decade ago and the concept maby are so special, that it is forgotten, but here it come ; it is a system that as a catemaran are much more stable it also is double stable as rocking the boat, mean an instant resistant force caused by a simple design trick, sorry to complicated even quite simple to explain in short but it work.
The Bargebridge are just a challance towerds tradisional thinking -- true naval engineering do float pontoon bridges but these are not flexible cheap build vessels but clumpsy heavy and expensive structures not fit for easy maintaince as a propelled barge are.
Ballast system make it follow the tide simple as that, but another set of water compartments add either floatation or ballast and some ( the first mentioned, will add weight as how a cup get heavy when bottom up, hoised up the water -- that stabilise when placed the right places.
Anyway what is expensive about a bridge is what is used holding all this steel in the air ; here the cheap water do all that at low cost, all you need to add is a bit satelite navigating for the motors or ancors to keep the thing in place and a small switch to pump in or out the water from the ballast tanks, to make it follow the tide.
Why bridges became so specialised and why engineering became more important than comford I can't answer I just make my best bid.
Anyway a float bridge based on square floatation boxes can not be compared with this barge bridge, the barge bridge are two maby more individual vessels that in a flexible way, can act as a bridge, different places at different times --- and they will never be wrong placed.
Beside you can allway's place a resturant on top.
Bigness emagine two glasses halve filled with water ,put into the water and upside down connected with a beam ---- now if there are a rigid whole , a beam with a cylinder at each end with top covered tight and halve full of water, what will happen if you try force one side down ?
ans ; one side will resist while a volume are tried forced down into the water, and the other side will resist as you with vaccum try "lift" water out the ocean.
--------- Now a steel barge proberly well maitained will last atleast 60 years , wouldn't a cheap ships hull be much more profitable in the long terms, than a trend bridge that next year show to be either to small or wrong placed . Offcaurse it will not work everywhere but there be a lot of places it will , much cheaper much more flexible.
-------- wile i aprishiate per correll´s ideaz, i looking for more informasions speciafically on calatrava bridges in the lisbon. anyones have somfin besides pritty pitures and the theeries?
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