Based on what I've heard, I expect that applications will be stagnant if not decrease. Much like the decrease in law school applicants, prospective students are coming to the realization that going back to school in a field where compensation is not commensurate with time and money spent is a poor decision. As an M.Arch 1 applicant who has thoroughly looked at the likely debt to income ratio, been through the summer intro course and some additional design courses, I am going into this with the complete understanding that I would be significantly wealthier in my current job in five years. If you aren't really into it, it's just not worth it for most people.
If you trust statistics from the NAAB (http://www.naab.org), below are the overall enrollment in accredited programs for the past three years. The 2011 report will be out in March 2012.
2008 29,133 (62% BArch)
2009 25,707 (59% BArch)
2010 27,852 (59% BArch)
Also, I do not have exact numbers, but there are about 90 MArch programs and about 55 BArch programs accredited by NAAB. Although the majority of programs are MArch, the majority of students are in BArch programs as enrollments at BArchs are higher than MArch programs.
No offense, but this sounds like wishful thinking from an applicant trying to get a superficial confidence boost. If anything, enrollment and applications in general will go up, due to people trying to weather out the recession via grad school.
Your portfolio's still gonna need to be top-notch to get into many programs; expecting or assuming anything less is just setting yourself up for failure.
I've heard enrollment is way down at all of the local universities around me, so much that they cannot continue in their present form if enrollment does not improve.
Based on princeton's stats (scroll down a bit to the architecture department), the applicants for 2011-2012 are decreasing. (556 applicants, offered 37 seats, and only 26 accepted)
BenC - I received an e-mail from someone at my alma mater telling me that they were ramping up international recruitment because, and I quote, "enrollment is down." I was wondering if this was true elsewhere.
I'm in an AAS program in architectural technology. Taking this to prepare for undergrad program, sharpen skills and also to built a portfolio and assurance in selecting a career in architecture. Anyway, this degree program in Phx is seeing all time low enrollment. I am also a tutor here in CAD & I see maybe 2 students in here a week for tutoring. 3 years ago it was so crowded in here that you'd have to wait 2 hours to hop on a computer with CAD, Revit, ArchiCAD, etc. The program was expanding, and now... Well...
I study architecture cause I love it. I wouldn't be considering this field if I were in it for money. I'm a musician, so I'm used to not getting paid well for my work. I'd rather struggle and be happy than get paid for something that makes me miserable. I have hope that I can get into a good Barch program with less competition. I should have a solid portfolio, but my GPA lacks... Need better time mgmt, attn span. Hah.
At Cal Poly Pomona in 2011, it is down to 1,334 applicants from 1,800 in 2008. I would say that's a considerable decrease. However, at that demand, they can maintain the same incoming student count of around 75.
I imagine less students are choosing privates like USC. It makes no sense to pay over 50k a year to become and architect.
Spark88 brings up a good point, the number of students in architecture programs might not change. In fact, I'm sure universities will not create small graduating class.
Is Dr Architecture around? Here's a question for you. Will universities create smaller graduating classes since employment rates are high?
many people leave architecture programs for various reasons (money, family, health, workload, grades, don't like the program/work, etc...) - even if schools maintained their incoming student count, these programs will still lose a certain number of students regardless. I have a feeling that there may be more self-weeding going on.
"I study architecture cause I love it. I wouldn't be considering this field if I were in it for money. I'm a musician, so I'm used to not getting paid well for my work. I'd rather struggle and be happy than get paid for something that makes me miserable. I have hope that I can get into a good Barch program with less competition. I should have a solid portfolio, but my GPA lacks... Need better time mgmt, attn span. Hah."
Being poor and in your 20's is doable. It gets harder to be poor when you are in your 30's and it absolutely not possible to be poor in your 40's and 50's. You can love it all day long and twice on staurday, but there may come a time that you will be depressed doing what you love when you can't make a living at it.
I was wondering if the change in the applications at Princeton is a transition from: I'll go back to graduate school to ride-out the recession in 2008 to something like "there is no future in this profession" in 2011.
There's a chance that princeton need to balance out the number of overall enrollment too since most program has a limited amount of seats. So, if they're accepting more students the year before, they might be forced to accept less students this year or next year. I'm not completely sure about it though. Most admission people just answered, "It's the portfolio." unless it's a new program that desperately needs guinea pigs.
You two are looking at the same info, it's just the top when compared to the top 100 most popular majors. It's top 10 when looking at all possible majors. With all the grief these days, it's easy to misread information. As for demand, here in LA, we only have one public undergraduate and professional degree for a population larger than most states. That has created a high demand for the architecture school. Architecture school faculty are just as interested in keeping their job as the next architect, so unless the population decreases, there won't be much incentive for them to reduce the size of the school. I don't think architecture schools are necessarily reactive to the job market as they are to student demand. With the prospects and maybe naiveness of things getting better for architects in five years, many students will keep applying. Maybe things are different for schools in other parts of the country.
I thought there's a lot of architecture schools in LA. USC, UCLA, sci-arc, Cal Poly, UC Berkley(I'm assuming most work in LA after they graduate). Or maybe most students are thinking of just working for Pixar. Entertainment is always on demand and there's no need to worry of getting sued by clients.
public, professional and undergraduate in the LA area (Berkeley is in the Bay area, USC, SciArc are private and expensive). Just Cal Poly Pomona. Not to mention the San Diego area. You're right, a lot of graduates have gone to work in the entertainment industry, ie Pixar, Disney Imagineering.
To the above poster who said that this was the result of "wishful thinking", I agree that I've thought about that many times. It's easy to try and persuade yourself that lesser qualifications may help you gain admission. I don't think that schools are going to let someone in with a high gpa and a shitty portfolio, but they may let a little more slide than before; especially lower tiered schools. It just makes sense that apps will go down. If you look at law school, there were two issues at hand. The first is people trying to escape the recession, the other less obvious reason is that there was a generation of a people who thought law was the route to $$$ because their parents or friends parents who were lawyers made a nice living. If you pay attention to what is happening to law school grads, it's not the case anymore. Architecture is similar. For whatever reason, people believe that architects (for the most part) make a high salary. If you read any articles on architecture as business you will realize that this too is a false assumption. Now you have a lot of people with art/architecture degrees who don't see the purpose in entering a field that will require 2-4 more years of education and pay you the same salary if you can even land a job. For people who really explore the industry, the reality is worse. The cost of school is going way up, there are more jobs in other creative fields, some of which will pay much more. As it relates to M.Arch programs, I think the top schools will still admit only 10-25%, but all others will have to be a bit less picky. This is not an excuse to send in shitty work, as I will certainly put forth my best effort, it just seems like a logical progression as a result of economic and cultural changes.
Dec 6, 11 12:10 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
arch program enrollment down?
just got word from a couple local arch programs that enrollment has dropped this past year - anyone else notice or hear anything?
Based on what I've heard, I expect that applications will be stagnant if not decrease. Much like the decrease in law school applicants, prospective students are coming to the realization that going back to school in a field where compensation is not commensurate with time and money spent is a poor decision. As an M.Arch 1 applicant who has thoroughly looked at the likely debt to income ratio, been through the summer intro course and some additional design courses, I am going into this with the complete understanding that I would be significantly wealthier in my current job in five years. If you aren't really into it, it's just not worth it for most people.
Hi, I'm considering the Loeb Fellowship program for 2012, any tips on the essay? thx
I doubt it. Aren't the first wave of the "echo baby boomer" starting to graduate from high school now.
first wave of "echo boomers" started college 10 years ago. I think we're approaching the end of that generation entering college...
... this has more to do with professional arch programs, though - which are mostly MArch...
If you trust statistics from the NAAB (http://www.naab.org), below are the overall enrollment in accredited programs for the past three years. The 2011 report will be out in March 2012.
2008 29,133 (62% BArch)
2009 25,707 (59% BArch)
2010 27,852 (59% BArch)
Also, I do not have exact numbers, but there are about 90 MArch programs and about 55 BArch programs accredited by NAAB. Although the majority of programs are MArch, the majority of students are in BArch programs as enrollments at BArchs are higher than MArch programs.
No offense, but this sounds like wishful thinking from an applicant trying to get a superficial confidence boost. If anything, enrollment and applications in general will go up, due to people trying to weather out the recession via grad school.
Your portfolio's still gonna need to be top-notch to get into many programs; expecting or assuming anything less is just setting yourself up for failure.
I've heard enrollment is way down at all of the local universities around me, so much that they cannot continue in their present form if enrollment does not improve.
Based on princeton's stats (scroll down a bit to the architecture department), the applicants for 2011-2012 are decreasing. (556 applicants, offered 37 seats, and only 26 accepted)
I think when I was applying they have about 1,000 applicants
BenC - I received an e-mail from someone at my alma mater telling me that they were ramping up international recruitment because, and I quote, "enrollment is down." I was wondering if this was true elsewhere.
I'm in an AAS program in architectural technology. Taking this to prepare for undergrad program, sharpen skills and also to built a portfolio and assurance in selecting a career in architecture. Anyway, this degree program in Phx is seeing all time low enrollment. I am also a tutor here in CAD & I see maybe 2 students in here a week for tutoring. 3 years ago it was so crowded in here that you'd have to wait 2 hours to hop on a computer with CAD, Revit, ArchiCAD, etc. The program was expanding, and now... Well...
I study architecture cause I love it. I wouldn't be considering this field if I were in it for money. I'm a musician, so I'm used to not getting paid well for my work. I'd rather struggle and be happy than get paid for something that makes me miserable. I have hope that I can get into a good Barch program with less competition. I should have a solid portfolio, but my GPA lacks... Need better time mgmt, attn span. Hah.
At Cal Poly Pomona in 2011, it is down to 1,334 applicants from 1,800 in 2008. I would say that's a considerable decrease. However, at that demand, they can maintain the same incoming student count of around 75.
I imagine less students are choosing privates like USC. It makes no sense to pay over 50k a year to become and architect.
Spark88 brings up a good point, the number of students in architecture programs might not change. In fact, I'm sure universities will not create small graduating class.
Is Dr Architecture around? Here's a question for you. Will universities create smaller graduating classes since employment rates are high?
many people leave architecture programs for various reasons (money, family, health, workload, grades, don't like the program/work, etc...) - even if schools maintained their incoming student count, these programs will still lose a certain number of students regardless. I have a feeling that there may be more self-weeding going on.
"I study architecture cause I love it. I wouldn't be considering this field if I were in it for money. I'm a musician, so I'm used to not getting paid well for my work. I'd rather struggle and be happy than get paid for something that makes me miserable. I have hope that I can get into a good Barch program with less competition. I should have a solid portfolio, but my GPA lacks... Need better time mgmt, attn span. Hah."
Being poor and in your 20's is doable. It gets harder to be poor when you are in your 30's and it absolutely not possible to be poor in your 40's and 50's. You can love it all day long and twice on staurday, but there may come a time that you will be depressed doing what you love when you can't make a living at it.
I was wondering if the change in the applications at Princeton is a transition from: I'll go back to graduate school to ride-out the recession in 2008 to something like "there is no future in this profession" in 2011.
@RandomWorks
There's a chance that princeton need to balance out the number of overall enrollment too since most program has a limited amount of seats. So, if they're accepting more students the year before, they might be forced to accept less students this year or next year. I'm not completely sure about it though. Most admission people just answered, "It's the portfolio." unless it's a new program that desperately needs guinea pigs.
^or everyone saw that architecture is in the top 10 highest unemployment of university degrees
Not just top 10, architecture is #1 according to this. Higher than the overall US unemployment.
You two are looking at the same info, it's just the top when compared to the top 100 most popular majors. It's top 10 when looking at all possible majors. With all the grief these days, it's easy to misread information. As for demand, here in LA, we only have one public undergraduate and professional degree for a population larger than most states. That has created a high demand for the architecture school. Architecture school faculty are just as interested in keeping their job as the next architect, so unless the population decreases, there won't be much incentive for them to reduce the size of the school. I don't think architecture schools are necessarily reactive to the job market as they are to student demand. With the prospects and maybe naiveness of things getting better for architects in five years, many students will keep applying. Maybe things are different for schools in other parts of the country.
I thought there's a lot of architecture schools in LA. USC, UCLA, sci-arc, Cal Poly, UC Berkley(I'm assuming most work in LA after they graduate). Or maybe most students are thinking of just working for Pixar. Entertainment is always on demand and there's no need to worry of getting sued by clients.
public, professional and undergraduate in the LA area (Berkeley is in the Bay area, USC, SciArc are private and expensive). Just Cal Poly Pomona. Not to mention the San Diego area. You're right, a lot of graduates have gone to work in the entertainment industry, ie Pixar, Disney Imagineering.
To the above poster who said that this was the result of "wishful thinking", I agree that I've thought about that many times. It's easy to try and persuade yourself that lesser qualifications may help you gain admission. I don't think that schools are going to let someone in with a high gpa and a shitty portfolio, but they may let a little more slide than before; especially lower tiered schools. It just makes sense that apps will go down. If you look at law school, there were two issues at hand. The first is people trying to escape the recession, the other less obvious reason is that there was a generation of a people who thought law was the route to $$$ because their parents or friends parents who were lawyers made a nice living. If you pay attention to what is happening to law school grads, it's not the case anymore. Architecture is similar. For whatever reason, people believe that architects (for the most part) make a high salary. If you read any articles on architecture as business you will realize that this too is a false assumption. Now you have a lot of people with art/architecture degrees who don't see the purpose in entering a field that will require 2-4 more years of education and pay you the same salary if you can even land a job. For people who really explore the industry, the reality is worse. The cost of school is going way up, there are more jobs in other creative fields, some of which will pay much more. As it relates to M.Arch programs, I think the top schools will still admit only 10-25%, but all others will have to be a bit less picky. This is not an excuse to send in shitty work, as I will certainly put forth my best effort, it just seems like a logical progression as a result of economic and cultural changes.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.